What if there really is no "You"
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Better this than 'complicated & confused'Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... words of a simpleton...
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... you exist but your existence is made up of parts and similarly, "moral" the concept, is changing because "morality" is composed of "considerations".Originally posted by Deino:if we do not exist then moral does not exist.....and if moral does not exist...its okay for wars, rape, killing to happen coz it wouldn't be a crime then becoz we are just plain matter.......than the survival of the fittest is true....we are no more better than animals......we are a disease to the world around us......we take from it until we are left with nothing.......just plain matter trying to survive on other matters
... wars, rape and so on are not OK, just because "you" does not exist and only exists as an aggregate of many parts and components. It is a non-sequitur fallacy to say that "we do not exist then moral does not exist".
... even though people do not exist other than as aggregates of many parts and components, people feel pain as well.. and to rape and inflict pain on others, for your own pleasure cannot be tolerated because you have no wish that others inflict pain on you for their pleasure.
... there is then an agreement, a "I don't hurt you and you don't hurt me" agreement. If you hurt me I hurt you.
... at another level altogether, if there is no me but an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then, it follows that the welfare of others affect the quality of my existence and the elimination of "evil" people affects the quality of my existence.
If I exist not as an an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then what someone does to another someone shouldn't affect me.
... it is because I do not exist that proper "RELATIONSHIPS" are important. -
... so you should try not to be confused and lose your simpleton ways...Originally posted by TS Kan:Better this than 'complicated & confused' -
There really is no 'you' ..... you are NOBODY & cannot exist in any form other than your vain self going berserk over small rib about your picOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:... so you should try not to be confused and lose your simpleton ways... -
What is undisputed about this topic is that AndrewPKYap is a fucking idiot who can't handle opinions that differ from his own. Obviously the amount of philosophy he knows couldn't even fill a shoe box yet he goes on and on just blabbering like a wino by the side of the road. And just like a wino he thinks I'm using 'big words', that I'm a 'clone' and that Descartes is the undisputed founder of scientific thinking. 1st of all everything about Philosophy can be DISPUTED. That's the fundamental basis of Philosophy. 2nd of all you don't even know that the point you've been arguing is basically substance dualism. 3rdly please don't try to act smart. Stick to things you THINK you know about (like the financial markets where your ridiculous thoughts and projections are torn to shreds like so much confetti).
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Whats the philosophy of life ?
mmmm..... the philosophy of life is....
*puffs a big fat joint... sips a glass of nice ice-blended mocha*
... *thinks*....
Fuk it..
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The only fool here is you jackass and I'm not alone on thisOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:Classic! The words of an idiot that tries to look smart and made a fool of himself....
ROFLMAO!
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Man you are a fucking idiot. Arguing that there is no self and yet 'ego' arises the same way that 'self' does? You're just blabbering. FI should lock this topic so we don't need to see more of your mad ramblingsOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:... there is no paradox... "ego" like self and everything else, arises... you cannot deny it... to deny that ego arises is as bad as to consider and treat ego as inherent and to treat reality as a luminous ball of light... to consider only that form is emptiness but emptiness is never form... to those that say "it is empty", you teach them form. -
You just keep going around and around. Keep telling yourself you're making sense. I'll make the call to IMH. And 'aggregation' must be a new word you discovered eh? You must be proudOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:... you exist but your existence is made up of parts and similarly, "moral" the concept, is changing because "morality" is composed of "considerations".
... wars, rape and so on are not OK, just because "you" does not exist and only exists only as an aggregate of many parts and components. It is a non-sequitur fallacy...
... even though people do not exist other than as aggregates of many parts and components, people feel pain as well.. and to rape and inflict pain on others, for your own pleasure cannot be tolerated because you have no wish that others inflict pain on you for their pleasure.
... there is then an agreement, a "I don't hurt you and you don't hurt me" agreement. If you hurt me I hurt you.
... at another level altogether, if there is no me but an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then, it follows that the welfare of others affect the quality of my existence and the elimination of "evil" people affects the quality of my existence.
If I exist not as an an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then what someone does to another someone shouldn't affect me.
... it is because I do not exist that proper "RELATIONSHIPS" are important. -
Did I say anything about a formless and void luminosity?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... you are taking the easy way out but it is not reality....
...you have gone to the extreme of emptiness.... and yes, at the extreme of emptiness, reality is a luminous ball of light and nothing else...
... the other extreme from emptiness is that what you see, "form" is everything.
... to him that says, luminosity, you teach form...
There is no formless and void luminosity. Luminosity is manifestation all and everywhere.
Please read properly:
(12:40 PM) Thusness: absorption in pure luminosity in every authentication.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: when hearing, just the sound.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: the sound is the rigpa so to speak.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: it is the depth of clarity of this experience.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: dzogchen called it contemplation
(12:41 PM) Thusness: i called it vipassanic
(12:42 PM) Thusness: bare and naked of a manifestation -
i dun see any point.....Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... you exist but your existence is made up of parts and similarly, "moral" the concept, is changing because "morality" is composed of "considerations".
... wars, rape and so on are not OK, just because "you" does not exist and only exists only as an aggregate of many parts and components. It is a non-sequitur fallacy...
... even though people do not exist other than as aggregates of many parts and components, people feel pain as well.. and to rape and inflict pain on others, for your own pleasure cannot be tolerated because you have no wish that others inflict pain on you for their pleasure.
... there is then an agreement, a "I don't hurt you and you don't hurt me" agreement. If you hurt me I hurt you.
... at another level altogether, if there is no me but an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then, it follows that the welfare of others affect the quality of my existence and the elimination of "evil" people affects the quality of my existence.
If I exist not as an an aggregation of parts, components and "RELATIONSHIPS", then what someone does to another someone shouldn't affect me.
... it is because I do not exist that proper "RELATIONSHIPS" are important.
if we die it does not make a difference to the world.....in your case we become one with the world...returning into matter....wait.....what am i saying...in your case you shouldn't be returning into matter but basically just break down into individual atoms......
and from the way that i see it in this perspective that "we do not exist" i still see that we are a mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter.......we are mere virus......and viruses knows nothing about sin and crime......therefore there is no wrong to turning or breaking down another matter into smaller pieces.......if we dun exist than pain is just a delusion....did the dinosaurs ever knew that their inexistance would bring the world to pollusion? or to inflict damage on others? -
if you say, "when hearing, just the sound", you have escaped from reality because "just the sound" is not reality. There is a lot more than "just the sound".Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Did I say anything about a formless and void luminosity?
There is no formless and void luminosity. Luminosity is manifestation all and everywhere.
Please read properly:
(12:40 PM) Thusness: absorption in pure luminosity in every authentication.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: when hearing, just the sound.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: the sound is the rigpa so to speak.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: it is the depth of clarity of this experience.
(12:41 PM) Thusness: dzogchen called it contemplation
(12:41 PM) Thusness: i called it vipassanic
(12:42 PM) Thusness: bare and naked of a manifestation
I would even say that if you teach, "when hearing, just the sound", you are teaching the opposite of what Buddhism teach. That is, mindfulness and awareness.
The be aware, is to know what is beneath the surface. It is to know that "when hearing", IT IS NOT "just the sound" but to be aware of full reality instead of "just the sound". -
... if we are mere "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter.......we are mere virus" and that is the reality?Originally posted by Deino:i dun see any point.....
if we die it does not make a difference to the world.....in your case we become one with the world...returning into matter....wait.....what am i saying...in your case you shouldn't be returning into matter but basically just break down into individual atoms......
and from the way that i see it in this perspective that "we do not exist" i still see that we are a mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter.......we are mere virus......and viruses knows nothing about sin and crime......therefore there is no wrong to turning or breaking down another matter into smaller pieces.......if we dun exist than pain is just a delusion....did the dinosaurs ever knew that their inexistance would bring the world to pollusion? or to inflict damage on others?
... do you prefer to live life in a delusion or reality?
For you to conclude that a "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" cannot be conscious, and that "there is no wrong to turning or breaking down another matter into smaller pieces" is, as I have pointed out, a "a non-sequitur fallacy".
The "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is also conscious. The conscious "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is unlike "the dinosaurs" that are conscious only in a limited way.
The human "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" is conscious. You have to say why a "mere pile of matter that survives by feeding on other matter" and is conscious, "knows nothing about sin and crime". -
... that would work for someone with no goals, no dreams, no difficult decisions to make....Originally posted by BadzMaro:Whats the philosophy of life ?
mmmm..... the philosophy of life is....
*puffs a big fat joint... sips a glass of nice ice-blended mocha*
... *thinks*....
Fuk it.. -
... that's what you hope issn't it? That you can make digs about people's pic and if people make digs about you back, it is not acceptable and they are vain? You are a simpleton with simplistic thoughts.Originally posted by TS Kan:There really is no 'you' ..... you are NOBODY & cannot exist in any form other than your vain self going berserk over small rib about your pic -
wow... continue arguing plz.. dun stop this thread
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... that's what you hope issn't it? That you can make digs about people's ideas and if people make digs about you back, it is not acceptable and they are vain? You are a simpleton with confusing thoughts.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... that would work for someone with no goals, no dreams, no difficult decisions to make.... -
hm this is not a good thread..
Why dont we all learn more bout self-existence instead of critisign each other..
We have someone who learnt philosopy and someone who has wide knowledge bout Buddha learning. Both of them can give us better knowledge bout self-existence. Why dont we learn something from philosophy and Buddha way ?
Andrew.. what i can see here is that people are here to post what they think or to share bout what they know.. and you? You are here to try to "brainwash" people into your ideas? Dont you realise it ? You think yourself as a human with a perfect flawless thinking ?
From what i can see, no one starts to tell anyone stupid or idiot or dense.. it is you who started this calling to people who dont agree with you? So you think you're smarter than all these people who just wanna share their thoughts in this topic?
Have you forgotten that you said "in trying to look smart, makes a fool of himself" ? Well, mayb thats wat u see in most people here but we think that sentence suits you better. Let me add something " .. and a fool doesnt realised that he is actually trying to look smart"
I would have respect u better if you keep your thinking but since u started calling people stupid and so on, i lost my respect to you.. It just proved how ignorant you are and how childish that you have become. This is sad. You really dont know what is going on with your attitude. -
all hail zarkOriginally posted by Zarks:hm this is not a good thread..
Why dont we all learn more bout self-existence instead of critisign each other..
Andrew.. what i can see here is that people are here to post what they think or to share bout what they know.. and you? You are here to try to "brainwash" people into your ideas? Dont you realise it ? You think yourself as a human with a perfect flawless thinking ?
From what i can see, no one starts to tell anyone stupid or idiot or dense.. it is you who started this calling to people who dont agree with you? So you think you're smarter than all these people who just wanna share their thoughts in this topic?
Have you forgotten that you said "in trying to look smart, makes a fool of himself" ? Well, mayb thats wat u see in most people here but we think that sentence suits you better. Let me add something " .. and a fool doesnt realised that he is actually try to look smart"
I would have respect u better if you keep your thinking but since u started calling people stupid and so on, i lost my respect to you.. It just proved how ignorant you are and how childish that you have become. This is sad. You really dont know what is going on with your attitude. -
Life is so simple
just do waht you want to do
why bother about what there is really no you or what
does it really matter? -
no party at your ark ah?Originally posted by noahnoah:Life is so simple
just do waht you want to do
why bother about what there is really no you or what
does it really matter?
why never let me join -
This is just an example. Everything arising arises by itself, in itself, and liberates in its own accord, without a separate perceiver. It is self-knowing.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:if you say, "when hearing, just the sound", you have escaped from reality because "just the sound" is not reality. There is a lot more than "just the sound".
I would even say that if you teach, "when hearing, just the sound", you are teaching the opposite of what Buddhism teach. That is, mindfulness and awareness.
The be aware, is to know what is beneath the surface. It is to know that "when hearing", IT IS NOT "just the sound" but to be aware of full reality instead of "just the sound".
BTW, read carefully. It says authenticated with every arising. So it's NOT only the sound.
'Just the sound' means there is no extra imputations (i.e a perceiver and a perceived) but experiencing it in bare, naked, awareness, i.e. mindfulness/awareness. What is the mindfulness I'm talking about? Please read: Mindfulness (Sati)
Please also read this thread: How to practise Vipassana (Insight Practice) in Daily Lives? -
HAHA Demon I feel your pain. Relax friend, its not worth the stress trying to reason/debate with this guy. I've done some philosophy and work on existentialism, but my knowledge on this subject pales in comparison to yours.
Nevertheless, I'm quite amused by the fact that Andrew starts all this without even the ability to use any philo terms (which reflects his knowledge/comprehension of the topic at hand).
To be honest, I think Andrew has had an interest in this subject (which is admirable in its own right) but hasnt read up enough on it or done enough research. Therefore although he seeks to debate and discuss the topic, his abilities to do so falter when someone more knowledgeable comes along.
And to Andrew, I didn't really take the time to understand 7 pages of what you're getting at (the original post was too basic). But medical research has in fact shown that our self-awareness, consciousness and ability to choose are simply the workings of the neurons in our brain. For example, a person with a failure in the posterior parietal cortex in his brain would not have free will. While people who are very severely autistic actually have no sense of a "ME".
So medically, there is no self, but neuron functions. And self is simply the name that we apply to what these neurons make us feel. If you take an alternative, non-medical stand, then SELF does indeed exist, as the concept that we create to explain what we feel or to romanticise the dull reality; and will die with the brain. -
Oh ya Andrew, lots of people are waiting for your reply in my forum
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