man killed at outram park mrt?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Tell me how can you miss at close range? The shoulders are broad enough and it's not a fatal part of the chest. The loud blast from the gun would probably have shocked and froze the victim too.
have you shot a pistol before?
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Originally posted by the Bear:
have you shot a pistol before?
No. I learnt from an ex-policeman colleague that the trigger is harder to squeeze than an automatic handgun.
Why do you ask?
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Hey, by the way, any eye-witness account in the news? That will give a clearer picture of whether the policeman had enough time to react properly. Was it necessary to kill the victim? He was only a suspect. A precious life was lost because of the policeman's action.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Hey, by the way, any eye-witness account in the news? That will give a clearer picture of whether the policeman had enough time to react properly. Was it necessary to kill the victim? He was only a suspect. A precious life was lost because of the policeman's action.
"only a suspect"?carrying a 15cm knife into one of the most crowded mrt stations near peak hour and flashing it immediatedly warrants the highest level of response, regardless of the fact that he had_already_been_a_prime_murder_suspect.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Tell me how can you miss at close range? The shoulders are broad enough and it's not a fatal part of the chest. The loud blast from the gun would probably have shocked and froze the victim too.
tmd u think the policeman got the chance to choose where to shoot isit? Imagine u were him in tht situation la.A person chiong towards u with a 20cm long knife,he was just a few feets away from u. By the time u take out ur gun,he would be like what,10cm away from u? During tht period u think u have time to aim where to shoot meh?
And fyi,for a normal person to pull the trigger,it would take 1 sec +. Becos the hand need to send a signal to the brain the action to pull the trigger
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P226 is not easy to shoot ar...Last time we stand 15m from a stationary target which is of human size and we are asked to shoot. Walao can miss one ar. I can hit about 35/50 shots. The passing mark is 25/50 shots and a sizeable amount of people actually fail the pistol test.
15m is 1.5 times the length of a shuttle run nia also can miss sia. But better than carrying bow and arrow la. so heavy. My hit rate for bow and arrow is probably even worse.
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Originally posted by Sagara:
Anyone who went thru Police Training / NS would see that this is a clear cut case fulfilling the SPF RoE. (A,O,J as mentioned.) Those who do not, simply lack the relevant knowledge of how it works.
The accused had already killed 1 and he would continue to kill to get his way out.
I bet the officer involved would'nt even have to write much for his report.
You already said accused.Since when does an accused become a convict?
If the police can be a judge, jury and executioner.
Why bother to have a judicial system?
I guess in Singapore's case, if you are accused of something
you are already a convict.
Guilty till proven innocent.
The duty of the police is to apprehend leh, let the courts decide based on evidence given.
For all we know, the man could have some mental problems, all that is needed is to lock him up in a mental institution.
If you think that all mad person should be shot dead, then maybe you can start at Woodbridge Hospital.
Most of the Singaporeans here have a very narrow perspective of issues.
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i think the suspect took our knife and charged at the police, right? i think it is what i read.
hence, self defence. sure, the next question is, why not shoot leg, or hand?
i think that is the tough question the guy who pull the trigger needs to clarify.
in the end, the media needs to make it look credible for the police. it is the lesser of the 2 devils.
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I looked at the picture of the states times. I felt that the policeman still had time to warn the victim and take a few steps backwards. Besides, the knife was in a bag.
In my opinion, the police approached him with caution and well prepared since it was reported that the victim fit the description of the suspect.
The victim had to draw the knife from his bag. The police had ample time to wrestle him to the ground. They could have taken a few steps backwards to warn him. There were two of them. If the victim had charged at one of them, the other one who is safe could have stopped him by shooting the victim at the leg or another part of the body without killing him. It's not really close range. The policeman's life is still not threatend at 3 metres apart. The police are young. The victim was 43.
The bullet was still in the body. It did not richochet.
There's foul play here.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i think the suspect took our knife and charged at the police, right? i think it is what i read.
hence, self defence. sure, the next question is, why not shoot leg, or hand?
i think that is the tough question the guy who pull the trigger needs to clarify.
in the end, the media needs to make it look credible for the police. it is the lesser of the 2 devils.
i assume i havent read the previous pages? -
okies.
lets discuss.
situation 1.
Person takes a knife and run towards a police officer. Police officer draws revolver. Warns Person. Person still charge towards Police Officer, Police Officer aims for the leg and shoot. Hits the Person at 3meters away. But Person still charges towards Police Officer, Officer aims the 2nd leg and fires again, This time, the person is just a few cm away, he fell and stabbed onto the officer.
Situation 1A.
Person takes a knife and run towards a police officer. Police officer draws revolver. Warns Person. Person still charge towards Police Officer, Police Officer aims for the leg and shoot. Bullet misses the person and ricochet off the floor, injuring a group of member of public, he aims the 2nd and shoot. This time it hit the target. But person is too near the to the officer, he stabbed the officer
Situation 1B
Person takes a knife and run towards a police officer. Police officer draws revolver. Warns Person. Person still charge towards Police Officer, Police Officer aims for the leg and shoot. Bullet misses the person and ricochet off the floor, injuring a group of member of public, he aims the 2nd and shoot. This time it missess again. and it ricochet to hit another group of member of public. the person charged and stabbed the officer.
You must SHOOT to DISARM. and how 2 DISARM? U must shoot the PERSON.
The HIGHEST PROBABILITY OF SHOOTING THE PERSON is to AIM THE BODY.
WHEN u play counter strike or any shooting games, dun tell me u aim for their hands n legs.
when u aim the BODY, the risk of hitting any vital organs is confirm HIGHER, but what is ur objective? IT IS TO DISARM THE PERSON.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
I looked at the picture of the states times. I felt that the policeman still had time to warn the victim and take a few steps backwards. Besides, the knife was in a bag.
In my opinion, the police approached him with caution and well prepared since it was reported that the victim fit the description of the suspect.
The victim had to draw the knife from his bag. The police had ample time to wrestle him to the ground. They could have taken a few steps backwards to warn him. There were two of them. If the victim had charged at one of them, the other one who is safe could have stopped him by shooting the victim at the leg or another part of the body without killing him. It's not really close range. The police are young. The victim was 43.
There's foul play here.
PLEASE.
AGE does not matter.
If the officer is STABBED.
the next day newspaper headline will be.
WHY ARM OUR OFFICERS IF THEY DUN USE IT!
HAVE U EVER CONSIDERED, IF THE SHOT MISS THE PERSON.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
You already said accused.Since when does an accused become a convict?
If the police can be a judge, jury and executioner.
Why bother to have a judicial system?
I guess in Singapore's case, if you are accused of something
you are already a convict.
Guilty till proven innocent.
The duty of the police is to apprehend leh, let the courts decide based on evidence given.
For all we know, the man could have some mental problems, all that is needed is to lock him up in a mental institution.
If you think that all mad person should be shot dead, then maybe you can start at Woodbridge Hospital.
Most of the Singaporeans here have a very narrow perspective of issues.
sorrie.
In singapore law.
You are not guilty until the judge give the verdict that you are.
Please read up up on ur law
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There are always different opinions on the matter. Be it self defense or not, in accordance to the law, their training, a general view of the situation... I still think it was not justified for the chest shot.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Tell me how can you miss at close range? The shoulders are broad enough and it's not a fatal part of the chest. The loud blast from the gun would probably have shocked and froze the victim too.
YOU think that a gun, when u AIM at A, it will shoot at A?sry.
No shots are 100% hit at the target. a recoil can change a bullet course of route.
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Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
There are always different opinions on the matter. Be it self defense or not, in accordance to the law, their training, a general view of the situation... I still think it was not justified for the chest shot.
what makes u think he aim at the chest?i went to revolver shooting.
i aim the torso. but the bullet somtimes dun hit the torso but instead it shoot the head, the body, the chest, the thigh, the shoulders.
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Originally posted by FirePig:
P226 is not easy to shoot ar...Last time we stand 15m from a stationary target which is of human size and we are asked to shoot. Walao can miss one ar. I can hit about 35/50 shots. The passing mark is 25/50 shots and a sizeable amount of people actually fail the pistol test.
15m is 1.5 times the length of a shuttle run nia also can miss sia. But better than carrying bow and arrow la. so heavy. My hit rate for bow and arrow is probably even worse.
According to the law of conservation of momentum, the recoil should be larger for a pistol.
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precisely.
even the firearm instructors in training command dun score 100% for their shooting test.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Nosense. It's never a justification for a policeman to shoot and kill a man holding a knife. Why didn't the policeman shoot his shoulder?
"It's never a justification for a policeman to shoot and kill a man holding a knife."
I guess its all right with you then to shoot and wound a man holding a knife.
When a PO shoots, I don't think he know if the shot would kill or wound. There are several vital points in the body that would be fatal if hit. The heart for sure. The brain maybe fatal. The chest, when the lungs is punctured, maybe. The neck is fatal, particular if the juggular vein is severed. The stomach, abdomen might be fatal, particular if the liver is punctured by a spinning bullet. Than again the bullet may hit a bone and ricochet towards a vital point. There is also the possibility that the PO wants to kill, and aims for the heart, but misses the organ by a mere half cm, the person would survive. There are people who have receive multiple gunshot wounds and survive. And also as in this case, one shot, and he is dead.
Why don't he give warning shots, shoot his legs, his arms, his little toe, and now his shoulders, its easy to critise.
I say in this incident, the PO is justified in shooting the suspect, and just too bad the fella died.
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haha corebootser sibei hardcore :DDD
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and 1 more.
WARNING shots are not recommended.
why?
You are in a enclosed area.
what if the bullet hit a gas pipe?
it ricochet and hit the officer?
it ricochet and hit a member of public.
it hit the light bulb and shatters the glass injuring some member of public?
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Originally posted by Maith:
haha corebootser sibei hardcore :DDD
he's just upset that people do not appreciate what the police has done, -
Originally posted by Maith:
haha corebootser sibei hardcore :DDD
i just want people to know, police officers never shoot to kill. they shoot to disarm. -
Originally posted by corebooster:
i just want people to know, police officers never shoot to kill. they shoot to disarm.
totally agreed. No person in the right mind will kill another person -
Originally posted by corebooster:
and 1 more.
WARNING shots are not recommended.
why?
You are in a enclosed area.
what if the bullet hit a gas pipe?
it ricochet and hit the officer?
it ricochet and hit a member of public.
it hit the light bulb and shatters the glass injuring some member of public?
Suspect leg so hard to hit already.
Gas pipe even smaller, don't aim can hit meh?
Possibility of ricochet?
If you talk about S&W where the effective range is 23meters and maximum range is 46meters.
After ricochet, the bullet would have lost alot of it's velocity (ie shooting straight up).
Who knows, the bullet is of soft metal, it might just embed itself in the pipes or cement ceiling.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S&W_Model_36
If the policeman didn't even have time to aim the leg.
You think he will have time to think about the effects of ricochet?
What happened was the policeman got frightened,
his first intuition was to take the pistol to shoot the suspect.
Whereas during training he would have been taught to give
a warning shot, failing which to shoot the leg.
Maybe you should also consider if policeman shoot and miss hitting a member of the public standing behind?
Policeman shoots and hits suspect's wristwatch causing it to ricochet and hit a member of the public?