Originally posted by dumbdumb!:and that's why i find you furry humpers annoying too. i mean.. talk about misplaced piorities. and all that talk about "humans who don't show compassion to cats are the bane of society"... ah well.
i see your true colours... shining through~
What true colours ?
I mean even When during World War One, manys have suffered too
not to mention how many Jews have suffered too
If one nation have plans to conquer another country,
will they really think ..of how many will lose their lives and so on?
I doubt so..
joshua182, I'm impressed by your empathy towards the Rape of Nanjing incidents and the victims.
However, the world itself isn't perfect and fair to begin with, else we would all be living in countries shaped in perfect squares/circles.
I feel that Japan should not be blamed for the Rape of Nanjing, as countries are not capable of committing an act of rape. We must be aware that it was the Japanese soldiers who were responsible for committing this hideous act. Even though I have mentioned Japanese soldiers, but I meant only those who actually committed the act and assisted, should be eternally condemned and impaled but kept alive through life-support systems for the rest of their lives.
You might have realised this long ago but chose to deny the facts that there are rapes and rapists in each and every countries in the world. In fact, rape is still one of the most commonly committed crime even after the World War II. And that brings out a clear fact that it is not fair and righteous to condemn an entire race/civilisation for the act of a few millions as long as there is at least one person in the race/civilisation that does not condone to such behaviour.
It would be very relevant you were to start focusing your attention and energies to help the rape victims in your own country and change the future histories. There are many unfortunate, unheard rape victims in Singapore and they are still very much alive and required plenty of help. Would you be able to help them first?
It would be appalling if I were to continue to patronise a food stall after getting raped by the food seller. Fortunately, that wasn't the case then. Therefore, we all need to move on and give the world a HUGE forgiveness.
However, I hope that whoever out there that are persistent in condemning an entire country/race/civilisation, to be righteous and seek ONLY apology and nothing else.
IF they have the intention to seek more than just an apology (LIKE MONEY?) by persistent harping on past histories, I would have no choice but to tell them to go FUCK themselves, those fucking retards.
To Joshua182,
Don't see why you need to use such language.
Yes, being a imformal forum, i just use PRC to mean Communist party, because "CP" would be vague. PRC is what communist established china in 1949 (after the war). I admit error on this part.
As for citing a source about inaccuracy of photographs, just look at Iris Chang's works.
I NEVER denied Rape of Nanking happened. I do believe it happened. This can be proven not by evidence but today, it is extremely hard and rare to find a Chinese who is native Nanking.
I am not sure why you are so worked up on this issue. But if you want to prove a point, using profanities ain't the way to go.
But i can tell you what "closer investigation" means...
1. There are photographs that WERE not taken in Nanking, but believers of Rape Of Nanking used those photographs to make people believe it was in Nanking.
2. A blur photograph of a soldier escorting villagers at bayonet point. It was proven later that solider was clearly wearing KMT uniform.
3. Iris Chang's works were proven inaccurate on some accounts. She herself admitted to that.
Honestly, I am surprised at your ignorance to call me ignorant. More likely you are biased to your point.
Originally posted by Ponders:To Joshua182,
Don't see why you need to use such language.
Yes, being a imformal forum, i just use PRC to mean Communist party, because "CP" would be vague. PRC is want communist established china in 1949 (after the war). I admit error on this part.
As for citing a source about inaccuracy of photographs, just look at Iris Chang's works.
I NEVER denied Rape of Nanking happened. I do believe it happened. This can be proven not by evidence but today, it is extremely hard and rare to find a Chinese who is native Nanking.
I am not sure why you are so worked up on this issue. But if you want to prove a point, using profanities ain't the way to go.
But i can tell you what "closer investigation" means...
1. There are photographs that WERE not taken in Nanking, but believers of Rape Of Nanking used those photographs to make people believe it was in Nanking.
2. A blur photograph of a soldier escorting villagers at bayonet point. It was proven later that solider was clearly wearing KMT uniform.
3. Iris Chang's works were proven inaccurate on some accounts. She herself admitted to that.
Honestly, I am surprised at your ignorance to call me ignorant. More likely you are biased to your point.
tht's the reason i only look for jap chicks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Nanking_(book)
k, i am at work now.. so wiki is the fastest place to find such things. But i just looked thru it.
Basically i am anti-Nobukatsu Fujioka.
Those proofs i mentioned, I came across them when i was doing research in library when I WAS still in university. that's 2000-2001 time.
If u need hard facts, u need me to dig my uni work.
But if you look thru the sources in that wiki article and from there follow the sources.. i am sure you can find it.
Originally posted by Ponders:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Nanking_(book)
k, i am at work now.. so wiki is the fastest place to find such things. But i just looked thru it.
Basically i am anti-Nobukatsu Fujioka.
Those proofs i mentioned, I came across them when i was doing research in library when I WAS still in university. that's 2000-2001 time.
If u need hard facts, u need me to dig my uni work.
But if you look thru the sources in that wiki article and from there follow the sources.. i am sure you can find it.
wat u study har?
Originally posted by noahnoah:
What true colours ?I mean even When during World War One, manys have suffered too
not to mention how many Jews have suffered too
If one nation have plans to conquer another country,
will they really think ..of how many will lose their lives and so on?
I doubt so..
war sucks ah. i never said it doesn't.
that's why i said, such pains should at least be acknowledged by japan. even if they're too proud to apologise. it totally sucks to go through that suffering, and then later everyone says it didn't happen.
true colours.. it's a song. what i meant was you were raving about the stray cats getting rounded up by authorities along with the rest who gave comments like society is going down the drain when humans can't even show compassion to animals etc. but for someone with so much compassion, you hardly seem bothered that humans are suffering.
i mean, i don't make noise when animals are suffering, but i make alot of noise when human dignity and lives are involved. so who has more compassion? furry humpers or heartless people like me?
Originally posted by natural_boy:wat u study har?
Finance. haha.
But yah, I was reading about Nanking as i was doing my Electives.
Joshua182.
I just read your previous posts,
since you are a Canadian PR, and IF you are in Vancouver...
drop by Vancouver Public Library at Georgia in downtown, and also SFU library in Burnaby.
That's where you can find my sources.
Originally posted by angel7030:And even if i am wrong, please be polite, why need to f here and there to a gal, everyone have the right to their opinon, please respect each other ok.
With yr temper, i can picture if u go war, u all also kill and rape yr enemy civilian just to release yr anger hor. Relax lah, this is only a discussion, nobody is right or wrong
u r insane ,u really need to re-learn history.
Well im sorry i guess i was really pissed off and just shot off words without thinking. But aside the swearing and stuff i've got some facts there so i hope i haven't discredited myself entirely.
To parn, the chinese have forgiven generously, even someone as criminal as Mao accepted japan's apology and waivered the right to material compensation, which if incurred, would leave their land and people forever in debt. China has overtaken japan's economy and has far to go. Japan isn't growing. She doesn't need blood money
quoting this line "Japanese soldiers who were responsible for committing this hideous act" . This responsibility wasn't one unto them alone. Hirohito, the imperial government wanted this to happen, their mothers and fathers have failed absurdly in raising them as humans for they display a lack of even basic morals, even in war time. Making it much worse they were the agressors, motivated by profit and profit alone.
To ponders
I'm in singapore right now but as far as i know just about all sources of the nanking massacre turned into an "incident" are either japanese, or motivated by japan directly or indirectly in the form of funding and the such.
And I'm aware of Iris chang's book and the alleged inaccuracies but i rather refer to historical sources and insitutions like the Red Cross and United nations.
I'd like to say that the photographs aren't worth shit. a couple hundred human skulks carbon dated to the exact same days speaks volumes.
To angel
Sorry please don't take it personally but do some more research and thinking before posting your opinion,s more so when you want to establish facts. Sorry i sweared at you too k.
and about mao and the cultural revoultion, the great leap forward, do remember his popularity was attributed to strong nationalism against invading japs so they effectively put him into power. Otherwise chiang kai-shek would have formed government. although just as cruel and great at making wrong decisions, that would've enabled American aid, marshall dollars and effectively a democratic china because Washinton was a hundred percent behind him.
*couple hundred thousand, not hundred" how to edit???
to Joshua182.
You sound much better now.
As to what you said, we are on the same frequency now.
I never take Iris Chang's work to be fully accurate.
Basically I am a believer it happened, I am just more concerned on how those people who want us to think that it happened used sources that were later found accurate.
Quoting a recent example,
Jakarta Riots 1998 that targeted Indonesian Chinese. Without a doubt rapes did happen. But it was blown out of proportion.
Photographs of dark skinned women being abused by Indonesian Army, their corpses were mutilated were being passed off as atrocities that happened in Jakarta. It was proven later that they are pictures taken when Indonesia was fighting a guerilla war in Timor Leste & Papua.
Supposed Indonesian Chinese set up numerous websites trying to tell the world what is happening to them. They downloaded "rape" pictures from porn sites trying to pass them off as happening in Jakarta.
If you do a simple search on google, there are many many detailed accounts of how the rapes happened. I do doubt some of their authencity based on the following,
1) "writer" placed "her own" pictures on the account (something not many are willing to do)
2) Writer wrote in detail as to step by step chronology what happened to her (or someone she/he seen)
3) the format of the write up are similar, (I am a normal Indonesian Chinese, not richer than most natives, but i am being preyed just because i am chinese, they cornered me, i tried not to remember, i woke up in pain).
Basically, I am trying to say if we as people are trying to push for a cause, we should try to use evidence as accurate as posssible just to fortify our credibility.
Originally posted by CenturionMBT:As passionate as you are, you can always reply in a nice civilised manner. No need to be rude. You are just discrediting yourself even if you are right. State your points clearly and concisely. You may attack his points but not the person himself.
Now, it is clearly pointless for me to shove my views into your face because you have kept an extremely strong stance in your views it will be pointless to try to argue with you till the cos come home.
But my views here will be as follows.
WW2 had been a very terrible war. Millions of people have died, all have suffered. But even among the fog of war, you can see the bright side of the people involved, as well as their dark side. Would it be fair then to accuse the good people for the actions of the evil ones?
The fact is, I believe the Japanese gov should apologise. But the world should be prepared to let go too. Those who have been involved, are already dead or dying. Would it be fair for the next few generations to fight over what the past has done? If that is the case, what lessons have we learnt from the past? To hate one another with each other's guts? Just because my grandpa fought with their grandpa? I find it irrelevant.The world have to move on. It is time for the world to cooperate rather than to fight over an issue that has been there for the past 70 years.
hmmm did the Japs apologize after the war?
Originally posted by Borntolive.:hmmm did the Japs apologize after the war?
never directly
never officially
It seems to me that folks here are big on the lack of an apology as the rhetoric against the Japs.
The Jap politicians are reluctant to issue a formal apology possible because of:
1) Conflicting interests between the beaucratic government structure,
2) apeasing a portion of the staunch Japanese nationalist voting public,
3) and an averse towards loosing "face" on an international scale, given the high premium that us asian cultures place on it.
I guess I can deal with that.
BUT, what I simply cannot tolerate is the fact that the right-wing politicians actually sanctioned the removal and distortion of Japanese wartime crimminal past from its history textbooks.
And you expect an apology from the government? Think again, coz it ain't gonna happen.
I'm sorry for the victims in the wars(I'm refering to all wars, including WWII) and I'm sure those who are guilty for those will suffer, be it in after death or during lifetime. But let's think of this, WWII and many other wars had been a lesson to tell us not go into more wars, it only bring destruction. It can be lives, properties, land and many others. Instead of blaming what happened in the past, let's work for the best in the future. Yes, I know the nanjing rape did happened, but let's work for the best in the future. For the nation, for us, for human and for mother earth.
Originally posted by angel7030:And even if i am wrong, please be polite, why need to f here and there to a gal, everyone have the right to their opinon, please respect each other ok.
With yr temper, i can picture if u go war, u all also kill and rape yr enemy civilian just to release yr anger hor. Relax lah, this is only a discussion, nobody is right or wrong
lol, so true
Anyone know of a time slot in this world where there are no hostilities at all.
I can't be bothered to seive through the list.
Originally posted by Borntolive.:Dono if u ppl have heard of Rape Of Nanjing during WW2 where the Japs raped n tortured the Chinese.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YoW2WYdOsvg
I was wondering if ppl of this generation know about the atrocities commited during WW2 by the Japs.
That was in the past... Sometimes, you gotta look forwards and not backwards...
Rape of Nanking...
So what do you wish to do about it??? Are we starting another petition??? Boycott MIJ??? What???
Or is this another history lessons by historians wannabes.
Originally posted by caleb_chiang:
That was in the past... Sometimes, you gotta look forwards and not backwards...
for us, i agree. those who aren't directly affected by it, should move on.
but for those who were raped, or seen loved one killed. you can't just tell them to forget it, stop being petty and move on, right?
learn from the history and move on! dun commit again!