Originally posted by pistonf:Now now u are assuming i am generalising just because of your psersonal bias.Who are you to say your teachers did not want the best for you?teachers are underpaid overworked government civil servants therefore when they do take on this particular profession it is out of passion for helping their students nth more. Therefore it is unfair for you to say that they demoralise and what not because they have no need to do and any basic teachers want the best for their students Na express or NT
So does your info comes from being a teacher yourself or having close friends who worked as teachers or just merely from what you think it should be?
Is pointless to discuss over this. Is crap system our government has come out with. That my point of view. Screw the system.
Originally posted by eagle:So does your info comes from being a teacher yourself or having close friends who worked as teachers or just merely from what you think it should be?
Can u be more specific in your question?
it is my view that there are 2 types of people, normal people and slow people but to be politically correct, MOE cannot create a slow stream for the slow people so they call it normal stream while normal people go through the express stream
let me simplify it for the slow people
normal stream = slow people
express stream = normal people
Originally posted by pistonf:Now now u are assuming i am generalising just because of your psersonal bias.Who are you to say your teachers did not want the best for you?teachers are underpaid overworked government civil servants therefore when they do take on this particular profession it is out of passion for helping their students nth more. Therefore it is unfair for you to say that they demoralise and what not because they have no need to do and any basic teachers want the best for their students Na express or NT
Maybe you didn't comprehend what I have been writing. Read again if you deem yourself smarter than the rest of us.
You already formed your personal bias against normal stream students. I am telling you what I had experienced as a normal stream student. To be told by some teachers that you and your fellow classmates won't ever do well , will never go to university etc , and your excuse for some of those lousy teachers ? Overworked government civil servants ?
Some overworked government civil servants actually helped us out but then again you have to reread my whole statement on it. But those are the sad few who actually gave a damn about us. Even the worst students in my class respected them by not playing up during lesson time.
It is my personal experience and I was on the other side.
Originally posted by fymk:Maybe you didn't comprehend what I have been writing. Read again if you deem yourself smarter than the rest of us.
You already formed your personal bias against normal stream students. I am telling you what I had experienced as a normal stream student. To be told by some teachers that you and your fellow classmates won't ever do well , will never go to university etc , and your excuse for some of those lousy teachers ? Overworked government civil servants ?
Some overworked government civil servants actually helped us out but then again you have to reread my whole statement on it. But those are the sad few who actually gave a damn about us. Even the worst students in my class respected them by not playing up during lesson time.
It is my personal experience and I was on the other side.
i am nt using it as an excuse but using it proof the point that they are noble people therefore they would do smth such as being bias against Na.You are admitting that there are teachers who helped you so does it not show u generalising to begin with?Anyways on a personal note i do not deem myself smarter den you.infact i respect the fact that u have gone so far in your life for a am still a kid
This is not directed at anyone in particular. Just sharing my thoughts. I'm a teacher (ex-MOE), 'A' levels and 'O' levels tuition teacher, with a background in psychology, conscientiology, spirituality (non-religious).
It is a common characteristic and tendency for people (in every country, but in this context, particularly, in Singapore) and for the government to prejudge, judge and condemn individuals based on their usefulness, economic contributions, and hence (indirectly), their academic performance. The so-called 'meritocracy' practiced by the government and corporate companies and institutions, are but a hollow, superficial shell of true meritocracy. But this, as pointed out by some others in the thread, cannot be completely avoided (afterall, it was conceived as the most pragmatic approach that was feasible).
But the extent to which it can be mitigated, with compassion, understanding, caring, and giving second chances, this is up to each and every person in the society (eg. Singapore, or any country in the world). Quite obviously by empirical observation, most companies, the government, and indeed most individuals (eg. parents, relatives, neighbours, colleages, aquaintances, who 'look-down' or condescend on others based on academic and/or financial status), do prejudge and judge harshly, to the extent, as some put it, condemn individuals based on academic qualifications; worst yet - from an early tender age of primary school.
Should someone (eg. government or corporate companies or parents?) be blamed for the plight of such individuals (normal stream, ITE, etc?). It's a moot point, putting blame or defending blame. Everyone (individual or group) has their own reasons and justifications for their attitudes and judgements. Pragmatism versus compassion/2nd-chances.
Fact of the matter is, especially in Singapore but also in many other societies (though fortunately to a lesser extent), if you don't do well academically, you don't qualify for higher paying (managerial, finance industry, etc) jobs, and others judge you (ie. your self-worth) based on these materialistic qualifications of academia and finance. Parents, relatives, neighbours do tend to look down, want 'face', lose 'face', be ashamed of their children who don't do well in these aspects, etc.
Well, I say, by Byron Katie's concept of Self-Responsibility, you (each and everyone of you, regardless of your academic qualifications or financial status) need only determine for yourself how you view your own self worth (as well as that of others), whether you respect, love and regard yourself unconditionally, or conditionally based on materialistic aspects (academia, financial).
That's one, and the most important step. It does not equate to, or mean that, you need simply be satisfied with being a financially poor, or lesser-educated person. That's mere consolation, or self-delusion.
Yes it's true the finances and economics of the world (ie. humanity on planet Earth) is flawed. Eg. if everyone's passive income exceeded their active income, than no one would work and everybody would be a worthless millionaire. Notice that currently, the professions who contribute most to civilization, the farmers, teachers, engineers, are not the most well paid - instead those in the finance industry, whom are concerned not with the generation of wealth, but the redistribution of wealth in their own (and their clients') interests, are the ones who are most highly paid. This system is unethical and flawed (note I didn't say the people of any particular professions are unethical, I said the system is).
Regardless, notwithstanding, the point being that you must have the inner strength to disregard the judgements of others (even your parents, if whom you allow your self-esteem to be destroyed by unenlightened foolish parents who may be ashamed of their children, ie. their love is conditional, then this is obviously a karmic issue (for the parents) due to lack of clarification, but on your part, you need not allow yourself to be hurt by this. It's their problem, do not make it yours. Be strong).
Once you truly have the self-respect, ie. to truly believe in yourself, to respect and love yourself even if the rest of the world condemns you, then you may *begin* to change the external circumstances (eg. financial) of your life for the better.
Often, and unfortunately, but quite inevitably, it is the other way around; low self-esteemed persons desperately seeking to make it rich, so he can respect himself, and hope to gain respect and acknowledgement from others (eg. parents, relatives, friends).
It is ok if the latter approach works, but it is an indirect, roundabout method that fails to address the inner issue - the lesson of unconditional self-respect and self-love, regardless of how poor/uneducated you are (do not have double-standards - if you do not respect/love yourself if you are poor, you cannot truly respect/love all the poor/uneducated people in the world). This (self-respect and self-love) by the way, is the karmic lesson of physical incarnation that is symbolized and illustrated by the whorl patterns on the middle finger (left hand - mean/averaged score of all previous lifetimes; right hand - score achieved for immediate past lifetime; the rounder the whorl pattern, the more complete the mastery; other fingers represent other karmic lessons).
Coming back to the harsh, unforgiving Singapore education/so-called meritocratic system, yes indeed by and large, if you go-with-the-flow of society, if you unthinkingly obey societal dogma of what's 'right' and 'wrong' (in truth there is no such thing as right or wrong, only what's appropriate/helpful/cosmoethical and what's inappropriate/harmful/anti-cosmoethical, given all possible considerations; note that as far as individuals are concerned, based on unique karmic soul background and intentions, what's 'right' (in terms of a particular action or choice) for an individual may not be so for another - "one man's meat is another man's poison"), then yes, you've been condemned or limited (by society, government, corporate companies, other people, but most of all, by your own false ideas or judgement on yourself) as far as financial achievments are concerned.
Afterall, everyone can see how the highest paying jobs* are only available to those with impressive resumes, job experiences, academic qualifications; and in turn academic qualifications are limited on one's family's financial status. A catch-22.
(*Someone wrote in to the Straits Times recently, about how higher managerial, executives and finance-industry careers have seen a pay rise of 5-20%, while lower-paying manual labour jobs, eg. rubbish cleaners, have seen a pay rise of 1-3%. Did you consider, in point of fact, that even 1% of a managerial/executive pay is easily 10%-50%-100% or even more, of a manual labour jobs? And manual workers, eg. rubbish cleaners, work much harder and do more sacrificing work than executives? The economic/financial system of humanity on Earth is severely flawed, or at the very least, severely unethical. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, usually undeservedly.)
However, be as it may, and it's thoroughly depressing enough yes I know (unless you happen to have an elite uncaring face, but like everyone else, elites have both a compassionate loving side, as well as a fear-based, materialistic, uncaring side - it's a personal matter of the inner struggle, to see how you've lived your life, what have you learnt and whom have you helped, will be asked of you when your life is over, yes in the afterlife, as part of the debriefing process. Don't worry, your soul lives forever, there is no 'death'. Many people still worry unproductively about this). But even in a harsh and unforgiving environment like Singapore, you can still break through.
If you are determined enough, and you know you're doing it for the greatest cosmoethical good (directly for yourself, and consequently and indirectly, for all around you, and ultimately, for all beings in the universe), when there's a will, there's a way. Your guides & helpers will assist you, not making money for the sake of making money, or worse for fear of lack of money, but rather, your guides & helpers will help you (ie. support your own efforts) in completing your existential program. Which in almost all cases entails high productivity, enrichment and evolution; first and foremost (with others) in relationships, and usually inseparably tied to this, other aspects of your life, your health, your emotional well being, your fiancial well being (for the sake of being empowered to do what you need to do - we're souls who have incarnated in a material world and are working through a biological physical body, so naturally we have to take care of our diet and finances as well), and so on.
Yes, even in Singapore, when there's a will, there's a way. Sim Wong Hoo is a but one example (never mind Creative isn't doing as well now as previously). Adam Khoo's books give further ideas (of creativity, entrepreneurship and possibilities beyond the societal-dogma-box). But the bottomline is, you need YOURSELF to be there for yourself. You don't need the world to respect or love you, you only need YOURSELF to respect and love yourself. Then you can work on (in the same way, equally) respecting and loving others around you, in the world.
It takes a great hero to do great things, including areas which others never thought of (focus your attention of what is helpful for the world, how can you design or provide a technology or service that helps others; as others are helped by you, inevitably so will you be by others - Law of Help, Law of Reflection, Law of Karma), to succeed in ways that society haven't even considered. Can you be that hero for yourself? I think you're worth it. Don't you?
hey that's kinda not true...in fact i know alot of normal stream ppl in POLY and even uni!!
to be honest..the normal stream ppl are the most hardworking ppl and excel...my bro and cousin are examples lor..prob because its the mindset that wah die..normal stream hopeless..which i think its ridiculous
i do agree how some first class express students very arrogant coz i had to study my way from last class to first..and what a treatment...will nv forget those haughty looks!!!