Service Staff Who Can Only Speak Chinese
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Originally posted by Nelstar:
Chinese are Chinese. Mainland, offshore island, downtown, or whatsoever, you are still Chinese.Chinese nationals are still Chinese. Singaporean Chinese are still Chinese.
If you understand them better, you will learn to accept the cultural differences. (Note: It's like Singapore in the 60s-70s. Chinese speak Angmo is not acceptable.. lol)
Hua ren hua yu he qing you he li
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
the PRCs damn throw face. Even bangla are willing to learn other languages and local dialects.
Speaking of which, I've heard Indians scolding in perfect farking Hokkien. All the NNB and CCBs used in the correct grammar!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Speaking of which, I've heard Indians scolding in perfect farking Hokkien. All the NNB and CCBs used in the correct grammar!
Not unusual in Singapore.
But at the rate things are going, this multilingual aspect of Singapore will likely be lost soon.
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Originally posted by Nelstar:
Chinese are Chinese. Mainland, offshore island, downtown, or whatsoever, you are still Chinese.Chinese nationals are still Chinese. Singaporean Chinese are still Chinese.
If you understand them better, you will learn to accept the cultural differences. (Note: It's like Singapore in the 60s-70s. Chinese speak Angmo is not acceptable.. lol)
Doubt so. Same blood, same genes, different cultural socialisation due to environment etc.
It's a fairly elementary case of why cultures and social behavior of diaspora groups diverge from their ethnocultural homeland.
Well, they have to get with the system here as they are the "new blood". Sure, let's have a two way process, but it'll be equally daft to have existing populations being given the burden to adapt to the newcomers, no?
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Originally posted by Mymoja:
wat to do.... cos all the singaporeans are so well educated, some educated till dun know how to speak mandarin ..... i thot we singaporean are Bilingual? why some cant speak our own native language? i just wanna say remember your root.... not trying to be ahmoh
so you are saying the malays should tell the cheena staff their orders in malay and the indian place their order in tamil?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Speaking of which, I've heard Indians scolding in perfect farking Hokkien. All the NNB and CCBs used in the correct grammar!
This is so true. :D
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Same blood, same genes, different cultural socialisation due to environment etc.
It's a fairly elementary case of why cultures and social behavior of diaspora groups diverge from their ethnocultural homeland.
How many times must I tell you?
Simple english please.
Eg. "Different people, different styles"
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Originally posted by charlize:
How many times must I tell you?
Simple english please.
Eg. "Different people, different styles"
Lai, you help me translate?
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Lai, you help me translate?
The purpose of language is to communicate.
Not obfuscate.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Not unusual in Singapore.
But at the rate things are going, this multilingual aspect of Singapore will likely be lost soon.
oh no. i will be exterminated soon!
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Wana work here, better learn english. We have many indonesians, japs, koreans who look chinese but cant speak chinese. English is still the mainstream language. Some idiots just cannot understand that.x2
My good friend witnessed this incident in a restaurant. There were 2 oriental looking customers trying to communication with the PRC waitress. They wanted to add soup to the soup noodles. Same thing lah. PRC dun want to make an effort to speak commercial language. The customers were either Indonesians or Koreans (I can't recall liao). They could not speak in PRC's language and it's not their fault. So my friend who's seated at the next table helped to translate and explained to the waitress that they just wanted to top up the soup. But the PRC not happy with them not able to talk in mandarin or simply too stupid understand simple request, she brought them a pot and left on their table.
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Wah lau....then these pple gonna be in for rough times. We have a lot of chinese looking residents and tourists but they cannot speak mandarin.
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I think these PRCs are begining to look down on Singaporeans.
The government often cajole Singaporeans that these foreigners are necessary for Singapore's survival. They have the backing of the Singapore government. The citizens get veiled threats.
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Originally posted by mancha:
I think these PRCs are begining to look down on Singaporeans.
The government often cajole Singaporeans that these foreigners are necessary for Singapore's survival. They have the backing of the Singapore government. The citizens get veiled threats.
One thing I admire about PRCs is that they can be quite patriotic.
Something that is hugely lacking amongst Singaporeans.
Haiz.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Speaking of which, I've heard Indians scolding in perfect farking Hokkien. All the NNB and CCBs used in the correct grammar!
Err this is singapore so not surprisingI met a sg chinese guy at a wedding yesterday who speaks fluent Tamil
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Doubt so. Same blood, same genes, different cultural socialisation due to environment etc.
It's a fairly elementary case of why cultures and social behavior of diaspora groups diverge from their ethnocultural homeland.
Well, they have to get with the system here as they are the "new blood". Sure, let's have a two way process, but it'll be equally daft to have existing populations being given the burden to adapt to the newcomers, no?
Well, just take it with a pinch of salt eh?
Even though we don't deserved to be treated like bunch of mofos for speaking English when we are Bilingual Chinese doesn't mean we degrade ourselves to their levels to take offense at their incapability to adapt to our society.
I believe they are just obtuse when defending their belief in Chinese should speak Mandarin to Chinese. Which isn't wrong, but just darn biased views.
Try talking to my dad in English and I believe he will spew forth obscene vulgarities at you for trying to make a fool out of him. He will start grumbling about cultural roots and other myopic beliefs and more profanities.
It is not very difficult for me to accept their views. Afterall my dad's like the Chinese Nationals except he can only speak in Chinese Dialects and can't even handle mandarin.
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Doesn't mean most of the service staff come from China? But I also know some singaporean could not speak english well.
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Originally posted by lidengdeng:
Doesn't mean most of the service staff come from China? But I also know some singaporean could not speak english well.
I can speek some splattering ingrish.
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I don't think the issue is that bad. This whole situation is exaggerated. Many angmoh pai singaporean chinese use this situation as an opportunity to launch disguised attacks at the mandarin language in Singapore. But seriously, the English language standard of today is so much better than in the past and the standard of spoken mandarin is so much worse than before. What more do you guys want? Eliminate mandarin totally from the language scene of Singapore?
Another thing. Good English=Good Service? Bad English=Bad Service? Seems to me some anglophiles have a serious case of inferiority complex. The year is 2008. The British are no longer our colonial masters.
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Originally posted by 123aswss:
I don't think the issue is that bad. This whole situation is exaggerated. Many angmoh pai singaporean chinese use this situation as an opportunity to launch disguised attacks at the mandarin language in Singapore. But seriously, the English language standard of today is so much better than in the past and the standard of spoken mandarin is so much worse than before. What more do you guys want? Eliminate mandarin totally from the language scene of Singapore?
Another thing. Good English=Good Service? Bad English=Bad Service? Seems to me some anglophiles have a serious case of inferiority complex. The year is 2008. The British are no longer our colonial masters.
Let's not go into our language policy here. The issue at hand is whether service staff should know basic conversational English because we are a nation that is made up of many ethnicities who speak languages in varying degrees of fluency.
Everyone got along in Pasar Singlish in the past, and simple English phrases were understood because it was what most people picked up due to ease of usage across different races.
Look at the situation closely, and you'll realise that there's a huge problem at the moment, in the service industry, where ironically, it forms the first line of contact and impression given to visitors as well.
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Its not like the newly arrived PRC guys aren't making an effort to speak English. I'm sure most of them are. As I said before, this whole issue is blown out of proportions. I've interacted with some Chinese who have refused to speak mandarin to me because they wanted to learn English. Of course there are the black sheeps but that cannot be a reason to stereotype a whole group of people, often with denigratory and xenophobic remarks, something that is happening alarmingly recently and probably by people with vested interests other than that of service standards.
And so what if the impression given to visitors is that some service staff can't speak good English? That our nation suck? Why are we so worried about how we come off to others? And why should good English be a criteria to giving a good impression to others? If we want authencity, perhaps Singlish should be a better language to use. I don't see the Japanese forcing their service staff to learn English in order to give a good impression to others. I don't see the French doing that. I don't see the Germans doing that. I only see countries who have been colonised by the British before doing that. India, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.. Its time we leave our colonial baggages behind.
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Originally posted by 123aswss:
Its not like the newly arrived PRC guys aren't making an effort to speak English. I'm sure most of them are. As I said before, this whole issue is blown out of proportions. I've interacted with some Chinese who have refused to speak mandarin to me because they wanted to learn English. Of course there are the black sheeps but that cannot be a reason to stereotype a whole group of people, often with denigratory and xenophobic remarks, something that is happening alarmingly recently and probably by people with vested interests other than that of service standards.
And so what if the impression given to visitors is that some service staff can't speak good English? That our nation suck? Why are we so worried about how we come off to others? And why should good English be a criteria to giving a good impression to others? If we want authencity, perhaps Singlish should be a better language to use. I don't see the Japanese forcing their service staff to learn English in order to give a good impression to others. I don't see the French doing that. I don't see the Germans doing that. I only see countries who have been colonised by the British before doing that. India, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.. Its time we leave our colonial baggages behind.
Well spoken. And I think some Singaporeans have developed superiority complex.
They need to have some humility now before 30 years time where China will be the number 1 economy in the entire world. By then, every one will beg, steal and rob to speak Chinese. -
30/11/08 : An article about our group has been published in Sunday Times!
"Service Grouses Spill Over to Facebook" - Gracia Chang
They are irate customers and they have found a way to air their grievances - on Facebook.
Some 2,000 people have joined a group called 'I am Singaporean and tired of service staff who can only speak Mandarin' on the popular social networking site.
At least 20 establishments - from big-name supermarkets and foodcourts to retail shops - have been singled out by members who have come forward to share frustrating experiences at these outlets.
Started in August by undergraduate Kavita Devi Thamilselvam, 22, the group has drawn many non-Chinese as well as Chinese who are not fluent in Mandarin.
'It's as though non-Mandarin speaking customers are not valued. It makes us feel like foreigners in our own country,' Ms Kavita told The Sunday Times.
Another member of the group, Ms Nor Hafiza, 28, said she once had to approach four different sales assistants at a supermarket before a Singaporean employee was able to answer her queries.
The early childhood educator was surprised one of them even asked if she could speak Mandarin.
'When you are serving a multiracial community, it's important to have employees who can speak English,' she said.
Most members in the group said they are not against hiring foreigners, but are frustrated at the lack of English training given to them.
Ms Kavita said she had initially set up the group so that like-minded customers would have an outlet to vent their frustration.
But she now wants to take the group's feedback to the establishments. Industry watchers empathised with such sentiments.
'This sends a clear signal to the operators that it is important to ensure the competency of their service staff,' said the president of the Consumers Association of Singapore, Mr Yeo Guat Kwang.
Singapore Retailers Association executive director Lau Chuen Wei felt that English tests may be a good idea to ensure a minimum level of English proficiency.
'If such tests can be implemented for domestic helpers whose contacts are largely confined to the families that they work with, what more for those whose contacts are with the larger community?'
First-time maids have to sit for an English entry test to ensure that they have basic numeracy and literacy skills to do household tasks and adapt to life here.
When The Sunday Times did its own tests on five big businesses listed on the Facebook group, three - Giant, Kopitiam and Food Republic - did not fare well, while two - Haagen-Dazs and Takashimaya - passed with flying colours.
When contacted, all except Takashimaya said they have already been conducting some form of English classes for staff.
Companies explained that recruiting English-speaking service staff in both F&B and retail industries is already challenging enough, as many people shun such jobs.
Most added that employees from China form barely 10 per cent of their total staff strength. Service-sector companies are allowed to employ foreign workers on work permits - up to 50 per cent of the company's total workforce.
Said a spokesman from supermarket chain Giant: 'It will take some time for them to learn a new language...We hope the Facebook group can give our staff a bit more learning time.' -
deleted duplicate post
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
30/11/08 : An article about our group has been published in Sunday Times!
"Service Grouses Spill Over to Facebook" - Gracia Chang
They are irate customers and they have found a way to air their grievances - on Facebook.
Some 2,000 people have joined a group called 'I am Singaporean and tired of service staff who can only speak Mandarin' on the popular social networking site.
At least 20 establishments - from big-name supermarkets and foodcourts to retail shops - have been singled out by members who have come forward to share frustrating experiences at these outlets.
Started in August by undergraduate Kavita Devi Thamilselvam, 22, the group has drawn many non-Chinese as well as Chinese who are not fluent in Mandarin.
'It's as though non-Mandarin speaking customers are not valued. It makes us feel like foreigners in our own country,' Ms Kavita told The Sunday Times.
Another member of the group, Ms Nor Hafiza, 28, said she once had to approach four different sales assistants at a supermarket before a Singaporean employee was able to answer her queries.
The early childhood educator was surprised one of them even asked if she could speak Mandarin.
'When you are serving a multiracial community, it's important to have employees who can speak English,' she said.
Most members in the group said they are not against hiring foreigners, but are frustrated at the lack of English training given to them.
Ms Kavita said she had initially set up the group so that like-minded customers would have an outlet to vent their frustration.
But she now wants to take the group's feedback to the establishments. Industry watchers empathised with such sentiments.
'This sends a clear signal to the operators that it is important to ensure the competency of their service staff,' said the president of the Consumers Association of Singapore, Mr Yeo Guat Kwang.
Singapore Retailers Association executive director Lau Chuen Wei felt that English tests may be a good idea to ensure a minimum level of English proficiency.
'If such tests can be implemented for domestic helpers whose contacts are largely confined to the families that they work with, what more for those whose contacts are with the larger community?'
First-time maids have to sit for an English entry test to ensure that they have basic numeracy and literacy skills to do household tasks and adapt to life here.
When The Sunday Times did its own tests on five big businesses listed on the Facebook group, three - Giant, Kopitiam and Food Republic - did not fare well, while two - Haagen-Dazs and Takashimaya - passed with flying colours.
When contacted, all except Takashimaya said they have already been conducting some form of English classes for staff.
Companies explained that recruiting English-speaking service staff in both F&B and retail industries is already challenging enough, as many people shun such jobs.
Most added that employees from China form barely 10 per cent of their total staff strength. Service-sector companies are allowed to employ foreign workers on work permits - up to 50 per cent of the company's total workforce.
Said a spokesman from supermarket chain Giant: 'It will take some time for them to learn a new language...We hope the Facebook group can give our staff a bit more learning time.'The article is so obviously and glaringly opiniated. Nothing short of what I expected from a pro-English paper's article.
Lets pull out the key facts from the article:
1) 20 establishments have been singled out by the group. A group of 2000 members.
2) The facebook listed 5 big businesses accused of having service staff with bad English standards and these 5 were tested. 3 Failed and 2 passed. (May I add that these were the companies that were already accused of having bad English standards. What of the thousands others who have not been accused? The writer would want us to believe that 3 in 5 of companies have failed the English standards.)
3) Most companies hire only 10 percent of their employees from China. (The article added that the companies could hire up to 50%. This point is irrelevant and seemed to be a way to have the reader subconsciously believe that the PRC employees are higher than 10 percent.)
And despite all these facts, the article would have us believe that the overall service staff's standard of English in Singapore is poor.
The writer's comparison of personal experiences and opinions against facts does not and should not cut it. I could experience racism in the USA but does not mean that all Americans are racist. In psychology, students learn that people remember incidences that support their view and forget those that don't. Maybe Singaporeans should start trying to keep in memory the occasions where foreigners are trying hard to learn English too.