AWARE
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Originally posted by MissZ:
I do not understand what Xtreyier meant with 'what is necessary and right for our evolution!'
Kindly elaborate?
Either Underworld or Dragonball.
Too much movies.
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we must not let religious groups take over civic organisations for their own agenda
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As I can see a gradual softening up of your view on point (1), I will not dwell any further on it, as I do not expect anyone to readily accept anyone else's view, least of all in public.
I am surprised u say tat after I had cited examples of fathers and nun. Personally I do not think I have become softened on point (1).
Since u r interested in point (2), lets talk about point 2 then. U break it into A & B, so lets talk about them
a) Why I use the word hijacked ? Originally the orgnisation is piloted by the old exco and they chart a destination for it to go. Now a new group completely oust out the old group, pilot themselves and set off to a completely opposite direction. I think hijack is quite a god description on the situation
U mention tat he the exco get in without breaking any laws or regulations. I completely agree with u. So there is nothing to talk about here
The point of contend is provided in the first reply I made
1) Why the religious people not form their own group and set their agenda as religious with the aim of helping women instead ? R they respecting other people's belief (helping lesbian by the old exco alleged by the new exco) ? R they going to storm into all the other groups tat offer support to lesbian or homosexual to achieve their censorship ?
2) Those who need support from the group will be pressurised into becoming religious since the whole group is religious and promoting religious belief. If they started off declaring they r religious, I have nothing to say. However they stormed into secular group and declaring they r secular yet r actually promoting religious sentiments. Anti homosexual is religious sentiments
3) Isn't lesbian women ? So is lesbian a diesease or something ? No. However to some people, they r a diesease and should be "counselled". IMO, bigoty is the real diesease and should be counselled
4) On one hand they talk about fear, hostility, intimidation and irrational fear, aren't religious doing the same thing to homosexual ?
If u ask me, yes. They r religious, they wanna stop homosexual publicity, and they r all linked together. Is there intention to "hijacked" the organisation ? From the words of Thio Si Mien, she claimed "she began urging people she knew to challenge aware's attempts to redefine marriage and families". So we can be clear they have planned and wanna take over the group to run it for themselves.
b) I think u should be clear tat from today's newspaper, they have officially declared they r from the same church and they wanna stop the old AWARE because they feel they r too cosy with homosexual. I do not malign them. This is no coincidence u r seeing. It is planned and plotted.
Lets see Thio words on homosexual
"I have nothing wrong with homosexual. I have ministered them. I have counselled them. They r in pain. And very often from families where u have abusive fathers. They do things to their daughter and they revolt, rebel against society. And we understand this is wat it is all about"
Why they join the group ? From the newspaper
They had joined AWARE because, like her, they had been concerned that the group had a hidden agenda to promote lebianism and homosexuality as being acceptable
Wat does tis tell u ? She treats homosexual as a disorder ! How is tat gonna be "inclusive" in any way ? Why do u say I am prejudiced when they declared all these themselves ? They r all from the same church, they r all christians, they all have plotted to replace the group, there r only 4000 (1/2 r males) people in the church and 100 of them suddenly turn up to join tis group and they spread religious view on homosexual. How do u expect me to see it ?
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Religious Fanatism must be soundly condemned!!!!
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I cannot agree with the new AWARE exco mode of operation as well. If we look at it from another context, a group of 100 "convert" members suddenly join a christian group, vote in their "planned" members and then subsequently throw out the other real christian leaders. Then the group start to propangate about anti christianity, demonise the old group, support abortion, homosexual etc. How will this group feel then ? They are voted in legally as well. Perhaps the original members of the group should smile and agree to follow the new anti christian direction ?
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I am surprised u say tat after I had cited examples of fathers and nun. Personally I do not think I have become softened on point (1).
Since u r interested in point (2), lets talk about point 2 then. U break it into A & B, so lets talk about them
a) Why I use the word hijacked ? Originally the orgnisation is piloted by the old exco and they chart a destination for it to go. Now a new group completely oust out the old group, pilot themselves and set off to a completely opposite direction. I think hijack is quite a god description on the situation
U mention tat he the exco get in without breaking any laws or regulations. I completely agree with u. So there is nothing to talk about here
The point of contend is provided in the first reply I made
1) Why the religious people not form their own group and set their agenda as religious with the aim of helping women instead ? R they respecting other people's belief (helping lesbian by the old exco alleged by the new exco) ? R they going to storm into all the other groups tat offer support to lesbian or homosexual to achieve their censorship ?
2) Those who need support from the group will be pressurised into becoming religious since the whole group is religious and promoting religious belief. If they started off declaring they r religious, I have nothing to say. However they stormed into secular group and declaring they r secular yet r actually promoting religious sentiments. Anti homosexual is religious sentiments
3) Isn't lesbian women ? So is lesbian a diesease or something ? No. However to some people, they r a diesease and should be "counselled". IMO, bigoty is the real diesease and should be counselled
4) On one hand they talk about fear, hostility, intimidation and irrational fear, aren't religious doing the same thing to homosexual ?
If u ask me, yes. They r religious, they wanna stop homosexual publicity, and they r all linked together. Is there intention to "hijacked" the organisation ? From the words of Thio Si Mien, she claimed "she began urging people she knew to challenge aware's attempts to redefine marriage and families". So we can be clear they have planned and wanna take over the group to run it for themselves.
b) I think u should be clear tat from today's newspaper, they have officially declared they r from the same church and they wanna stop the old AWARE because they feel they r too cosy with homosexual. I do not malign them. This is no coincidence u r seeing. It is planned and plotted.
Lets see Thio words on homosexual
"I have nothing wrong with homosexual. I have ministered them. I have counselled them. They r in pain. And very often from families where u have abusive fathers. They do things to their daughter and they revolt, rebel against society. And we understand this is wat it is all about"
Why they join the group ? From the newspaper
They had joined AWARE because, like her, they had been concerned that the group had a hidden agenda to promote lebianism and homosexuality as being acceptable
Wat does tis tell u ? She treats homosexual as a disorder ! How is tat gonna be "inclusive" in any way ? Why do u say I am prejudiced when they declared all these themselves ? They r all from the same church, they r all christians, they all have plotted to replace the group, there r only 4000 (1/2 r males) people in the church and 100 of them suddenly turn up to join tis group and they spread religious view on homosexual. How do u expect me to see it ?
It is most clear that you have developed a prejudical and one sided perception which I will not be able to penetrate through, despite my reasonable attempts to break through to you with the simpliest of conceptualisations, therefore I would have to leave you to your own system of fanatical beliefs and misconceptions.
To continue would only be churlish and a repetition, with no new substances, akin to a schoolyard brawl, common among thickheaded opponents and an absolute waste of time.
I would only leave here with an addeum as a response to your crazy notion that views from civil society groups are immediately accepted and rectified as law as evident in your fears.
There is and must be no fear of civil society groups. They only present a viewpoint to our elected representatives for legislation. Their views carry no heavier weight than yours and my views when we present our woes to our MPs at those meeting sessions.
The more professionally run a civil group is, the more chance it will be heard, and heard only, not accepted unless such views are debated before our elected representatives. Thus, any civil group that seeks to be heard would have to ensure that they do have people of credibility in their ranks, mostly made up of volunteers.
And volunteers are something that our country lacks, even to serving as our elected representatives is a difficult chore to find. Therefore should a civil group cease to exists just because they find that their volunteers are friends and came from the same social group?
If such beliefs are held, why then, we ought to ban NUS graduates from serving the nation, for they came from the same social group. We ought to ban clans, ban medical associations, ban every civil society group then!
Please do broaden your mind and not allow narrow views to filter through. If AWARE is an organisation in Germany of the 30s, rest assured that with such fiasco, it would be terminated and replaced with another called Hitler's Women Reform Society, and any views would come from the Fuhrer alone after a night's sleep.
Singapore's political EVOLUTION had came a long way, from a necessary authoritarian democracy to administer to a largely uneducated population on a do or die mission, to a conservative democracy, on the way to socialist democracy and one day a liberal democracy ( may i be long dead and the population fully educated to handle such liberisation).
The previous committee had sadly taken our new found freedoms for granted and had allow emotions to take the better of them, and may have destroyed a budding society capable of uplifting the lives of womenhood, as determined by our society you and i share. If it is shut down, it would be a loss to womanhood.
The only fanaticism seen in the episode is a desire to stir up religious hate by some, totally disregarding the need for religious tolerance as well as a total disregard to our secular society's demand to uphold the law and not promote same sex activities
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There is and must be no fear of civil society groups. They only present a viewpoint to our elected representatives for legislation. Their views carry no heavier weight than yours and my views when we present our woes to our MPs at those meeting sessions
Then why are those christians so fearful of the old AWARE ? They are the one with the irrational fear and sought to replace them.
And volunteers are something that our country lacks, even to serving as our elected representatives is a difficult chore to find. Therefore should a civil group cease to exists just because they find that their volunteers are friends and came from the same social group?
The reason why they are from the same church is mentioned is probably because it shows there is a conspiracy for the hijack. They openly declared they are linked to the "feminist mentor", from the same church, they have anti homosexual views and they resent the previous AWARE isn't it ? They plotted this takeover and it is no coincidence
Now a group tat represent secular issues, inclusive of all religion and background should really have some diversity of people from all spectrum of lives. However now it is totally lopped one sided, all of them suddenly fundamentalist christians and they openly declared christian direction. What do u think of a christian group comprising of all members with anti christian views ?
The previous committee had sadly taken our new found freedoms for granted and had allow emotions to take the better of them, and may have destroyed a budding society capable of uplifting the lives of womenhood, as determined by our society you and i share. If it is shut down, it would be a loss to womanhood.
That is your personal thinking. My personal thinking is that religion should stay out of secular affairs and not impose their thinkings on other people. To christians, the bible is the truth but to a non believer it is fiction. They are people who really feel homosexual are not sinners and one shouldn't judge and impose their views on others.
The only fanaticism seen in the episode is a desire to stir up religious hate by some, totally disregarding the need for religious tolerance as well as a total disregard to our secular society's demand to uphold the law and not promote same sex activities
The new AWARE group stirs up religious hate by totally disregarding the need for tolerance of other people's belief and a total disregard to our secular demand to leave religion out of secular ways.
Sorry but I feel strongly about this
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I sincerly hope that you see my point. I do not seek that you to agree with me, but please do spend some time, consider and erase that 'religious' affiliation link. It doesnt exists or compromise their attitudes towards serving society, something we in Singapore sorely lacks.
unfortunately, the "religious" affiliation link do exist....
one - the so-call feminist mentor is in the middle of it all, the ladies she mentor are from the church.
two - with the sacking of the staff of AWARE, the replacement is also from the church. isn't the normal practice to advertise for staff the norm?
three - the anti-homosexual stance is typical of a church.
i have seen many of these, even in my own church. for some very strange reasons it is usually the ladies who have a very narrow perspective of the world and how the world should operate.
reading into all the histronics from various reports (including non-government controlled ones), shows that the new exco is clutching at straws with their arguments and justifications. it also goes to show how petty women can be - sacking of these, exclusion of that, changing locks, getting muscle men to guard - and with that dragged the reputation of an organisation fighting for women's rights to the dirt.
i say down with Josie and her pussycats.
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HAHAHAHA UNKER ANDREW HAS FOUND HIS WAY INTO THIS THREAD ROFLMAO.. cant believe i actually laughed out loud when i scrolled down and saw that familiar red bold font lmaos...
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Honestly, I think too many people are giving to much attention to this AWARE thing. Personally, I believe that AWARE is at best, similar to some ECA where one joins for the fun of it. Ultimately, it should make little difference to the bigger picture as the main impetus of schools should be academic and moral education.
By giving so much attention, we are actually playing into the hands of Josie Lau and her ilk. Honestly, I couldn't give two hoots whether its Josie Lau or Andy Lau or some Ah Lau taking over AWARE. What this new ilk wants is people to be interested in AWARE. Holding press conferences appearing in newspapers etc, quite obviously a subconscious publicity campaign eh.
As far as I am concerned I will show apathy to this whole issue. And I urge everyone to do so as well. If we are apathetic to them, chances are, we won't be unduly influenced by their teachings. Honestly, this whole AWARE thing is a laughable circus with Josie Lau as the head clown. At least in my opinion...
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Originally posted by bizzkit0102:
Honestly, I think too many people are giving to much attention to this AWARE thing. Personally, I believe that AWARE is at best, similar to some ECA where one joins for the fun of it. Ultimately, it should make little difference to the bigger picture as the main impetus of schools should be academic and moral education.
By giving so much attention, we are actually playing into the hands of Josie Lau and her ilk. Honestly, I couldn't give two hoots whether its Josie Lau or Andy Lau or some Ah Lau taking over AWARE. What this new ilk wants is people to be interested in AWARE. Holding press conferences appearing in newspapers etc, quite obviously a subconscious publicity campaign eh.
As far as I am concerned I will show apathy to this whole issue. And I urge everyone to do so as well. If we are apathetic to them, chances are, we won't be unduly influenced by their teachings. Honestly, this whole AWARE thing is a laughable circus with Josie Lau as the head clown. At least in my opinion...
hahaha! -
Looks something like "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" (only difference in this case its not abt rejection in love, but differences in opinion/organisation). Additionally its not abt a woman scorned but many women scorned - so can you imagine the firestorm of a circus & hilarity!!.
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actually what they do one... never heard of them till now...
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Today The Newpaper very interesting. The way they characterise the woman in it is indeed laughable.
From what I see, the old guards seem to be in a very favourable position compared to the newbies who have angered quite a number of people.
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Originally posted by reservistsianz:
That is your personal thinking. My personal thinking is that religion should stay out of secular affairs and not impose their thinkings on other people. To christians, the bible is the truth but to a non believer it is fiction. They are people who really feel homosexual are not sinners and one shouldn't judge and impose their views on others.
Sorry but I feel strongly about this
No need to apologise. Everyone is entitled to his/hr view. I will not attemt to change yours or anyone else's view, except to comment on a fundamental error you made.
You, as well as many claimed that christians were responsible for anti-lesbanism and anti-homosexuality. Are you by omission alluding that Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and other religions EMBRACE and WELCOME lesbanism as well as homosexuality?
Are you, rejecting our SECULAR society, through our secular govt, decision to OUTLAW lesbanism and homosexuality? A secular society that like any other secular society in world with foundation of civilisation built by religions thru the adaptation of its laws, which had served mankind and its continuance well for centuries?
Are we to allow a bunch of outlawed militant gays, lesbians and their degenerate lovers threaten, dictate and demand how our secular society should behave?
See, there is bigger cans of worms than you can ever imagine, opened up by the previous Aware committee, who may be media savvy, but our society is not as uneducated as it once was and not easily fooled.
I apologise if anyone is offended, but i guess there are certain issues one must make a stand. Lesbians and gays are humans too, but they and their families need help in our society, not further encouragement. No mother or father would want their child influenced or adapted to such lifestyle choice.
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Great. im not going to give a cent to their organisation anymore
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chao fundies....
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channel 5 shud show one-hour episodes of AWARE news conferences instead of their drama Red Thread...
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thanks to them, women rights become a joke nowadays
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You, as well as many claimed that christians were responsible for anti-lesbanism and anti-homosexuality. Are you by omission alluding that Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and other religions EMBRACE and WELCOME lesbanism as well as homosexuality?
Well christianity r the one tat show its presence about anti homosexual. I do not know about the others but they seemed to be practise more tolerance and do not go about condemning other beliefs and storm into center educating homosexual
Are you, rejecting our SECULAR society, through our secular govt, decision to OUTLAW lesbanism and homosexuality? A secular society that like any other secular society in world with foundation of civilisation built by religions thru the adaptation of its laws, which had served mankind and its continuance well for centuries?
The reason why homosexual is outlawed is because christians r forcing their beliefs on others. Whether u like it or not they r importing in tons of homosexuals into singapore and they r not enforcing the law. The religion is already pushing their influece too far. As said if u wanna compare, why not compare with the whole world whereby only religious country ban homosexual.
Are we to allow a bunch of outlawed militant gays, lesbians and their degenerate lovers threaten, dictate and demand how our secular society should behave
Here I see fundamentalist christians seeking to censor off views from other beliefs. They plotted, stormed and completely changed an original group educating people about homosexual into an anti homosexual group. They r the one tat pull the first punch and threathen how the secular society runs by forcing the gov to allow adopt the law.
Lesbians and gays are humans too, but they and their families need help in our society, not further encouragement. No mother or father would want their child influenced or adapted to such lifestyle choice.
If u treat them as human, why not leave them be ? Why need to outlawed them, storm troop neutral organisation and keep condemning them ? They r not christian, they don;t care wat u think. I don't see christians condeming people who makes excessive money from the religion which jesus hated tremendously himself. U don't really practise wat u preach
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
You, as well as many claimed that christians were responsible for anti-lesbanism and anti-homosexuality. Are you by omission alluding that Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and other religions EMBRACE and WELCOME lesbanism as well as homosexuality?
Are we to allow a bunch of outlawed militant gays, lesbians and their degenerate lovers threaten, dictate and demand how our secular society should behave?
The thing is, no one is asking you to encourage homosexuality.
From what I understand, Buddhism doesn't encourage homosexuality, neither does it ommit it too. Do not use strong words such as embracing and welcoming as you might end up incurring the wrath of the different religions and get the topic side tracked.
Right now, it's not about saying to allow gays and lesbian to preach their beliefs and lifestyle. By not allowing homosexuals, or in this case, gay women, to seek help from an organisation namly to offer help to woman, isn't that going against their mission?
Aren't gay women, women too? Or is it that just because they are gay, they aren't considered women, but under a third gender classification. By including them in the organisation and offering them an avenue to seek help, it's not encouraging their lifestyle, but to just provide assistance to any troubles that they are in.
As long as they are women, they should be considered into the organisation, irregardless of their sexuality.
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Originally posted by laurence82:
thanks to them, women rights become a joke nowadays
ya, its make us female very malu, but on the contrary, it really got much Aware by us as some of us gals also dunno what it was previously. Look like it is going to be a Bunch of old gal professionals fighting ring.For I alway taught that ah lian like me got the aware of others for being unreasonable at times, but they are same same, in fact, worst than me.
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Originally posted by wonderamazement:
actually what they do one... never heard of them till now...
they are?? i think they are no different from NKF or Ren Ci, that is why all of them struggling to hold power, with power, they get the hands on the finance and lending rights.So, right now, it die die must hold power.
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I guess, the new ex-co make the old guards really sit up and realise that there are power-hungry people out there.
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I think it just happens that Thio Su Mien was in this church whereby there was a group of gullible/irrational women who 'shares' her views and was silly enough to do things according to her bidding. As for Josie Lau, she is the nephew's wife and therefore got to 'give face' mah. If Thio is the mentor then Josie should be the mentoree? As far as I'm concerned, Thio is the cause this saga.