Why you should not study
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actually, to be totally mercenary, i'd tell them all to drop out... it'll make it easier for my progeny in future
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i think in todays business enviornment and cost of higher education. A basic degree is enough. Unless you want a drastics career changed than perharps a Master will be a way out. But to think in terms of advances i am not sure obtaining a MBA would served to help advance career....but rather professional license maybe a better alternative. Also the cost itself is hard to justify.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Engineering degree from Jakarta uni and in Jarkata?
They are not really known for engineering...
dun be too sure ya, their standard in math is higher than here n look at their engineering in bridge crossing and foundations, u would be surprise -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
i think in todays business enviornment and cost of higher education. A basic degree is enough. Unless you want a drastics career changed than perharps a Master will be a way out. But to think in terms of advances i am not sure obtaining a MBA would served to help advance career....but rather professional license maybe a better alternative. Also the cost itself is hard to justify.
there is more to Masters' degrees than just MBAs...granted, MBAs these days teach a whole lot of crap as the premise to economics is based on very flawed foundations... but there are other disciplines of Masters' degrees.. those like Mathematics, Physics, History...
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I find that MBA and PhD peoples are harder to get job.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
there is more to Masters' degrees than just MBAs...granted, MBAs these days teach a whole lot of crap as the premise to economics is based on very flawed foundations... but there are other disciplines of Masters' degrees.. those like Mathematics, Physics, History...
Right so unless u are pursuing a PHD than you move forward with a direct 6 years. from a basic. But if anyone think about using MBA as to advance career i am not sure the cost justified. -
Originally posted by seyKai:
dun be too sure ya, their standard in math is higher than here n look at their engineering in bridge crossing and foundations, u would be surpriseI wouldn't doubt the standards in maths
It's about job prospects there, and/or if any of them come here, their job prospects, as compared to prospects of engineering grads from local Us.
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itis great to have ppl like TS ard....
those FL/FW/PRC flaming is starting to get bore....
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Right so unless u are pursuing a PHD than you move forward with a direct 6 years. from a basic. But if anyone think about using MBA as to advance career i am not sure the cost justified.
i wonder why pples dun go into business after studying business courses...even PhD and MBA also hv to work for others, so my final decision is to do business. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
i wonder why pples dun go into business after studying business courses...even PhD and MBA also hv to work for others, so my final decision is to do business.not all work just for $$....
working for passion making work enjoyable. so long as it pay the bills, most are content.
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Originally posted by seyKai:
dun be too sure ya, their standard in math is higher than here n look at their engineering in bridge crossing and foundations, u would be surpriseAgain, I ask:
Did you drop out of uni when your prof told you the bad news?
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Originally posted by EarlNeo:
not all work just for $$....
working for passion making work enjoyable. so long as it pay the bills, most are content.
business also passion mah,..if i can sell earl grey tea bags and make money, why not..i enjoy meeting peoples, help to them to change from coffee to healthy tea drinking habit etc etc, then i can employ a MBA or PhD to work for me in market research and sales. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
i wonder why pples dun go into business after studying business courses...even PhD and MBA also hv to work for others, so my final decision is to do business.Well individual have different financial needs....after spending money for MBA where got money to start up...
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Originally posted by angel7030:
business also passion mah,..if i can sell earl grey tea bags and make money, why not..i enjoy meeting peoples, help to them to change from coffee to healthy tea drinking habit etc etc, then i can employ a MBA or PhD to work for me in market research and sales.of coz.. business can b a passion. so does making more money....
u dun have to know how to make a car to sell one. neither would the "best" warrant the most sale. Ur mum can make better, taster buger,but that dun mean she can sell more burgers then Mac. Nor does Mac burger taste the best.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Well individual have different financial needs....after spending money for MBA where got money to start up...
I think MBA or PhD is for credential sake, most end up in teaching or lecturing, hardly are they able to suit into corporate business,..especially the PhD peoples. On the hand, with this credential, they can get a better loan for a start up. But after a PhD start to drive taxi, the banks will have doubt in them.10 Singaporean bosses in singapore, 5 are just o level or diploma, 3 got no formal education at all, maybe only 2 are degree or MBA and above. Our education system taught us to be workers, straight jacket adminstrator, they failed to train shrewd business people.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
I think MBA or PhD is for credential sake, most end up in teaching or lecturing, hardly are they able to suit into corporate business,..especially the PhD peoples. On the hand, with this credential, they can get a better loan for a start up. But after a PhD start to drive taxi, the banks will have doubt in them.10 Singaporean bosses in singapore, 5 are just o level or diploma, 3 got no formal education at all, maybe only 2 are degree or MBA and above. Our education system taught us to be workers, straight jacket adminstrator, they failed to train shrewd business people.
PHD is basically a teaching or research post.
Well my questioning of taking up MBA really base on cost factors and durable of the MBA degree.
I think if you are already a senior "Manager" in Corporate level and involved in Planning. I think that jobs required a broader management style. But i think most Singaporean are stuck at mid levels MNC and waiting to get ship out.
Singaporean in general are not Shrewed businessman. That is why alot got con in China.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
PHD is basically a teaching or research post.
Well my questioning of taking up MBA really base on cost factors and durable of the MBA degree.
I think if you are already a senior "Manager" in Corporate level and involved in Planning. I think that jobs required a broader management style. But i think most Singaporean are stuck at mid levels MNC and waiting to get ship out.
Singaporean in general are not Shrewed businessman. That is why alot got con in China.
That why i said, most MBA are trained to be adminstrator, such as GM, Head of HR, Head of school, principal, top civil servants etc..all these does not realistically involve in business, more on organising and admin part, set up system, objectives and production, but never have the cunning and shrewd mind of business.
Singapore will alway be dependent of MNC and FDI because we fail to build business peoples like me, education bring in knowledge of risk resulting in fear, whereas people like me just chiong and talk later, afterall, also got nothing to loose. That is the basic mentality of business, the ability to take risk, the ability to be shrewd and cunning and the ability to break even if reputation is destroyed.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
That why i said, most MBA are trained to be adminstrator, such as GM, Head of HR, Head of school, principal, top civil servants etc..all these does not realistically involve in business, more on organising and admin part, set up system, objectives and production, but never have the cunning and shrewd mind of business.
Singapore will alway be dependent of MNC and FDI because we fail to build business peoples like me, education bring in knowledge of risk resulting in fear, whereas people like me just chiong and talk later, afterall, also got nothing to loose. That is the basic mentality of business, the ability to take risk, the ability to be shrewd and cunning and the ability to break even if reputation is destroyed.
Pls don't stick gold to yourself....taking risk is not just about Chiong.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Pls don't stick gold to yourself....taking risk is not just about Chiong.
I am not stick gold, but because i got nothing to loose, just a diploma to go with, unlike a MBA or PhD holders, their credential is at stake if they fail in something. You see, if i failed, people will said, nevermind try again, u no experience and knowledge, but if a MBA or PhD failed, u should know what people will say.I kind of believe education is good, but knowledge also bring in fear, the dun dare to take the risk and the reputation is at stake. If you look at bosses of Bengawan Solo, jeanyip saloon, street 77, JackNeo, Polar cakes, primal deli, kopitiam, etc etc,...not one of them got a degree ya
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caluculated risk and uncalculated risk..
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Originally posted by angel7030:
I am not stick gold, but because i got nothing to loose, just a diploma to go with, unlike a MBA or PhD holders, their credential is at stake if they fail in something. You see, if i failed, people will said, nevermind try again, u no experience and knowledge, but if a MBA or PhD failed, u should know what people will say.I kind of believe education is good, but knowledge also bring in fear, the dun dare to take the risk and the reputation is at stake. If you look at bosses of Bengawan Solo, jeanyip saloon, street 77, JackNeo, Polar cakes, primal deli, kopitiam, etc etc,...not one of them got a degree ya
is there any reason u need to be in every threads?
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Originally posted by GHoST_18:
caluculated risk and uncalculated risk..
in business yes. you cannot effort to have risk factors in engineering -
Originally posted by angel7030:
I am not stick gold, but because i got nothing to loose, just a diploma to go with, unlike a MBA or PhD holders, their credential is at stake if they fail in something. You see, if i failed, people will said, nevermind try again, u no experience and knowledge, but if a MBA or PhD failed, u should know what people will say.I kind of believe education is good, but knowledge also bring in fear, the dun dare to take the risk and the reputation is at stake. If you look at bosses of Bengawan Solo, jeanyip saloon, street 77, JackNeo, Polar cakes, primal deli, kopitiam, etc etc,...not one of them got a degree ya
Won't these bosses need degree holders in order to upkeep their business (HR, Accountants), design the equipment (Electrical/Mechnical Engineers), government agencies to provide the security for safe access to food/water/electricity and guard against hooligans/gangsters/rioters?
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Originally posted by automator:
Here is a simple comparison between a O level graduate, diploma and degree graduate to prove that it is not worth spending so much time and money to study.
We shall take a starting pay of $1200 for O level graduate who work as Admin Assistant and give her a 1 month bonus and $100 pay increment every year.
During the 3 years that you take to get a diploma from the polytechnic you will have incureed a cost of $6000 school fees (after government subsidy) and you will have lost 3 years of income as compared to a O level graduate who works during the 3 years that you are studying,
The O level graduate who is a admin assistant will have earned this amount in the 3 years that you spend taking a diploma
1st year: $1200*13 months(including bonus)= $15 600
2nd year: $1300(assuming a $100 increment for every year that he works)*13 months= $ 16 900
3rd year: $1400 * 13 months= $18 200.
In 3 years time, she will have earned $15 600+ $16 900 + $18 200= $50 700.
And in 3 years time due to outstanding performance she got promoted to Admin Executive and given a $300 pay increment and her salary is now $1700 a month.
A fresh diploma holder starts off as a Admin Executive drawing a salary of $1700. Both of them earns the same amount of salary but the O level graduate has worked for 3 years and during this period she have earned $50 700. Plus the diploma holder have spended $6000 on her school fees.
Note that this amount has not include the cpf portion of her employer contribution during the 3 years that she has worked. If we include in this amount it will be higher.
Clearly the O level graduate is at a advantage as compared to the diploma holder.
Now we compare a degree holder who took 5 years to get a degree( 2 years in JC and 3 years in university) with the O level graduate.
Starting from the 4 year onwards, the O level graduate who is now a Admin Executive earns $1700 a month.
4th year: $1700*13 months= $22 100
5th year: $1800*13 months= $23 400
At the end of the 5 years, the O level graduate Admin Exceutive will have earned $50 700+ $22 100+ $23 400= $96 200. Her salary at that time will be $1800 a month.
The university graduate let us give her a salary of $2200 a month. Wow not bad sia she earns $400 a month more than the O level graduate.
But wait. during the 5 years that she took to get a degree, the O level graduate have already earned $96 200.
You go and calculate how long must this university graduate work than she can earn back the loss of $96 200 income that she loss in these 5 years. Not to mention, she started off with a net loss of $30 000( calculated by using $10 000 a year school fee multiply by 3 years course fee. And $10 000 a year school fee is already considered cheap. Some university courses costs more than $10 000 a year).
So after this calculation, you say whether is it worth it to take a degree or diploma anot?
it is possible to put forward a framework of reasons and values to justify almost any choice of lifestyle. if u choose your perception, choose your values and choose your information, you can defend almost any point of view.
one of the prime duties that wisdom is call upon to perform is to cope with now and then.
the youngster drops out of school to earns good money and to have a less boring time. that is now. later the earning capacity of that youngster is substaintially below that of his classmates who got more education. that is then
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i think the basic min is diploma.. at least diploma is better than O level.
When you know what field you are interested then go for the degree. Than that is value for money and worth your time..
Example. My brother failed his O level come out work.. feel so bad cos no one actually appreciate his hard work.. so take a HR diploma. Then he recognise that HR there is prospect and interest.. so he go for degree.
Don't stop studying.