Clash b/w Jc and Poly students on local uni admission..
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Refer to the links...
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Story/STIStory_514733.html
http://www.razor.tv/site/servlet/segment/main/news/46612.html
Should Jc students deserve priority in admission to local uni as proposed by Lee Beng Tat?
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This Lee Beng Tat is rather rubbish.. what does he mean by polytechnic students should view diploma as their endpoint??
Crazy enough to say, polytechnic students are catching up with JC students. More and more poly students are entering local universities.
I dont agree with what LBT said about giving priorities to JC students. I believe if you deserve a place in local universities, you will get it, be it you are from poly or JC.
JC students cannot think that because they are from JC, they must go to university and the government must assist them along the way, and give them priority over other potential students from other colleges. This is NOT the way to do it. JC students cant take it for granted that they can enter university for sure. Everybody deserves a chance at university.
I have seen many JC students fail to enter university, and also seen many poly students entering university. I mean if JC students are hardworking enough, they should cherish their studies and make sure they qualify for university, instead of going to the forum and ask that the government give priority to them (refering to Mr LBT). If a polytechnic student is hardworking and has the potential to do well in university but is deprived of a place in local university just because of this priority scheme given to JC students, do you all think its fair to this poly student?
Similarly, if LBT says that poly students can go overseas and get a degree, then why cant a JC student go overseas and get their degrees?
LBT is a real selfish fool. Time has changed.. JC is no longer the better route to better education and career prospects. The emphasis on polytechnic education is catching up. Furthermore a diploma is more valuable than a A level cert.
Anyway, during my uni days, I dont see why polytechnic students cannot compete with JC students. I have seen poly students getting First Class Honours, and now pursuing PhD studies. I have seen jC students complaining its tough to study, and some even graduate without doing honours. And in fact, I myself (as a poly graduate) managed to do much better than some of my course mates that were previously from top notch JCs like HCJC, SAJC, TJC, NJC.
Therefore, I would like to end by saying that what LBT is saying and suggesting is truly rubbish. His selfish ways of thinking should be abolished, and the government should not give priority to JC students. In another words, LBT is looking down on Poly students. I personally believe everyone should be given a chance to enter university if they have the required qualification.
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Since young, I always had this thinking drilled in:
JC - Direct route to local uni, unless your grades are crap.
Poly - Alternate route to get paper qualifications, because you got no confidence in completing JC, or crap results that couldn't get you into JC.
ITE - Aiyah, we all know the misnomer for it.
I also knew since the early 90s, getting into local uni with a diploma means you needed to be like the top 5% cohort of all of singapore's polytechnics, and not the the top 5% of your poly to even consider filing and application to get in. But i noticed after 2003, that 5% slowly skewed to like 10% then as of now, I feel its like 20%, or just maybe its more diploma grads getting 3.99/4 gpa.
To be frank, if I was a parent now, I would expect my kid to go the JC route and enter local uni, at least it'll save me plenty of cash. Really.
Honestly, I would think that LBT isn't entirely wrong, I would just say he put it in the wrong way, and it left a bad aftertaste for most.
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singapore universities???other universities in england etc are getting poly,ite and jc grads withoput much fuss or % thingy.
no big deal with spore university...............think they need to gimme $$$ to study in there.sounds like a damn dangerous place to study...so much deaths at NTU like as if its cursed......and NUS.....not known for anything.
wouldb rather go study a long distance degree course from usa or europe .more practical and less dangerous.
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Biased article by an old fart.
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use brains and be businessman
no need to study.
employ those who went through education and make your empire grow.
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I was from poly and I agree with LBT.
Local uni can't take it everyone.. Anyway, poly ppl can still go SIM or overseas. They are better than NTU/NUS/SMU..
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Originally posted by BillGates:
I was from poly and I agree with LBT.
Local uni can't take it everyone.. Anyway, poly ppl can still go SIM or overseas. They are better than NTU/NUS/SMU..
JC people can also go SIM or overseas. Not necessary poly grads. -
Poly students dont deserve equal priority as with the JC students but their intakes should be adjusted to be higher. The current 15% is way too low, maybe adjust it to 25% or something.
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Originally posted by MaNyZeR:
This Lee Beng Tat is rather rubbish.. what does he mean by polytechnic students should view diploma as their endpoint??
Crazy enough to say, polytechnic students are catching up with JC students. More and more poly students are entering local universities.
I dont agree with what LBT said about giving priorities to JC students. I believe if you deserve a place in local universities, you will get it, be it you are from poly or JC.
JC students cannot think that because they are from JC, they must go to university and the government must assist them along the way, and give them priority over other potential students from other colleges. This is NOT the way to do it. JC students cant take it for granted that they can enter university for sure. Everybody deserves a chance at university.
I have seen many JC students fail to enter university, and also seen many poly students entering university. I mean if JC students are hardworking enough, they should cherish their studies and make sure they qualify for university, instead of going to the forum and ask that the government give priority to them (refering to Mr LBT). If a polytechnic student is hardworking and has the potential to do well in university but is deprived of a place in local university just because of this priority scheme given to JC students, do you all think its fair to this poly student?
Similarly, if LBT says that poly students can go overseas and get a degree, then why cant a JC student go overseas and get their degrees?
LBT is a real selfish fool. Time has changed.. JC is no longer the better route to better education and career prospects. The emphasis on polytechnic education is catching up. Furthermore a diploma is more valuable than a A level cert.
Anyway, during my uni days, I dont see why polytechnic students cannot compete with JC students. I have seen poly students getting First Class Honours, and now pursuing PhD studies. I have seen jC students complaining its tough to study, and some even graduate without doing honours. And in fact, I myself (as a poly graduate) managed to do much better than some of my course mates that were previously from top notch JCs like HCJC, SAJC, TJC, NJC.
Therefore, I would like to end by saying that what LBT is saying and suggesting is truly rubbish. His selfish ways of thinking should be abolished, and the government should not give priority to JC students. In another words, LBT is looking down on Poly students. I personally believe everyone should be given a chance to enter university if they have the required qualification.
it is due to more JC eligible people opting for poly instead of JC.
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Ask the govenment to expand the university places to allocate more students and re-calculate the workforce needed to substain the economy for our graduates.
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Ask the gahmen to cut down on the foreign students intake!
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Singapore was under Brithish colonial rule before World War 2...In uk, the general route to a degree is via GCE "A" levels.
Quoting from this guy Lee Beng Tat,
in the past, a JC education was called 'pre-university' education, and it is precisely that.
This is very true..
Anyway, there is meritocracy in Singapore. If you're of a university material, you will be one regardless of you holding a diploma or an 'A' level.
There are so many private institutions in Singapore that offer degree and there is always the option of pursuing a degree overseas using a 'diploma' .
If there is a distinction between local universities and private institutions in Singapore,
there's a distinction between top universities in the world and local universities,
there's a distinction between someone who has obtained an M.B.B.S and someone who has obtained an M.D..
and finally a distinction between "diploma" and GCE 'A' levels (referring to the certificate, not the institution)
This is reality, this is life, no one is born equal... face this reality like a real man and stop whining
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Originally posted by Hitman+:
singapore universities???other universities in england etc are getting poly,ite and jc grads withoput much fuss or % thingy.
no big deal with spore university...............think they need to gimme $$$ to study in there.sounds like a damn dangerous place to study...so much deaths at NTU like as if its cursed......and NUS.....not known for anything.
wouldb rather go study a long distance degree course from usa or europe .more practical and less dangerous.
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me thinks singaporeans regard NUS as a country club membership where people play golf and where they have plenty of swimming pools with gals in bikini.
there used to be N,,,something Technological University ...but its since been downgraded to a insanitorium where theres 5 deaths/year or more involving students and university staff.
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LOL.... The one who wrote it should be a parent. His name almost certainly suggests so.
Anyway, he should really go to polytechnic open houses and have a look himself.
Yes, indeed, poly route is the final destination back in our parent's times (for the 40s, 50s...) These days, many do not stop here. They go to local or overseas uni.
A poly cert is also more credible these days. And more and more good students are choosing the poly route to get to a university because it gives them more exposure to working life and life experiences, rather than JC, which focuses more towards the academics, and fitness for preparation of NS.
Although today, many high fliers still choose the JC route, the trend has been that many have chosen the poly route, and are doing far better than the JC students.
Anyway, the GPA for the polytechnic students have been improving. For what I know, a GPA of about 3.6 these days dun even guarantee a university place for polytechnic students, where a GPA lower than 3.6 could have easily gotten a poly student into a university in the past.
On the other hand, there are many parents and students who feel that they would confirm get places in the local universities just merely because they are JC students, and are more superior than the polytechnic students. 20 pointers these days are snatching up the JC places, because they have no elsewhere to go apart from ITE while 8 pointers are snatching up the poly places.
Do you know that Cut off point (COP) for almost all courses in polytechnics are below 15 these days? Certainly not for a lot of people.... I got a shock when I saw my youngest brother's COP booklet, where my time it was like 20.
But think about it, Jc students do play a lot too much when they are in J1.... and ended up staying back already in JC and there are lots of them who have been getting too much involved with their CCAs, that they have forgotten about their academics.
Many are also being "forced" by their parents to go there... and seriously could not cope with their studies.... They are just trying their best to remain their mentality that they are more "superior"....
If you are lazy, why should the local universities enrol you into their schools?
Meritocracy - Think about it.
Seriously, that is just being a "loser" to suggest and demand a place when your results are inferior. -
Originally posted by Hitman+:
me thinks singaporeans regard NUS as a country club membership where people play golf and where they have plenty of swimming pools with gals in bikini.
there used to be N,,,something Technological University ...but its since been downgraded to a insanitorium where theres 5 deaths/year or more involving students and university staff.
And NTU is becoming like "Mini China" I suppose? From what I hear?
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Originally posted by Junyang700:
On the other hand, there are many parents and students who feel that they would confirm get places in the local universities just merely because they are JC students, and are more superior than the polytechnic students. 20 pointers these days are snatching up the JC places, because they have no elsewhere to go apart from ITE while 8 pointers are snatching up the poly places.
Do you know that Cut off point (COP) for almost all courses in polytechnics are below 15 these days? Certainly not for a lot of people.... I got a shock when I saw my youngest brother's COP booklet, where my time it was like 20.
But think about it, Jc students do play a lot too much when they are in J1.... and ended up staying back already in JC and there are lots of them who have been getting too much involved with their CCAs, that they have forgotten about their academics.
Many are also being "forced" by their parents to go there... and seriously could not cope with their studies.... They are just trying their best to remain their mentality that they are more "superior"....
If you are lazy, why should the local universities enrol you into their schools?
Meritocracy - Think about it.
Seriously, that is just being a "loser" to suggest and demand a place when your results are inferior.Just because the newspapers gave a few examples of O Level high scorers opting for the poly route doesnt mean that poly is anywhere near JC in scholastic calibre. You're sounding like a fat girl who insists on wearing micro bikinis because Oprah told her that big is beautiful.
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
Just because the newspapers gave a few examples of O Level high scorers opting for the poly route doesnt mean that poly is anywhere near JC in scholastic calibre. You're sounding like a fat girl who insists on wearing micro bikinis because Oprah told her that big is beautiful.
No, but it is a sign that Poly are no longer the dumping grounds for people being unable to make it to the JC, however the Entry rate for poly grads to enter Uni have barely reason and is not keeping up with times. The standard of the polytechnics have gone up, and while the JC still remains the cream of the crop and definitely should have a bigger share of the pie, the current allocation to poly students is way too low.
I say, reduce the foreign talent rates, and maybe abit from the JC side to give an increas eof 10% to the poly students. 25% is not alot to ask for. Jc students can keep their 60% or whatever figures it currently is.
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Same lah
You do well in poly/JC, will go uni
Never do well, all end up with diploma/A levelThen can become relief teacher/tuition teacher
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Originally posted by stellazio:
No, but it is a sign that Poly are no longer the dumping grounds for people being unable to make it to the JC, however the Entry rate for poly grads to enter Uni have barely reason and is not keeping up with times. The standard of the polytechnics have gone up, and while the JC still remains the cream of the crop and definitely should have a bigger share of the pie, the current allocation to poly students is way too low.
I say, reduce the foreign talent rates, and maybe abit from the JC side to give an increas eof 10% to the poly students. 25% is not alot to ask for. Jc students can keep their 60% or whatever figures it currently is.
Ultimately, the universities should make independent judgement calls about what type of students they want to admit. In my engineering course now, there are 2 ex-poly students and they seem to be "slightly below average" (no offense to them, they are my good friends and I didn't want to judge them) even though they had near-perfect GPAs in poly.
But I recognise that there are both poly students who do well in university, and courses that are more suited to poly students. Let the universities decide themselves...
COP for most JCs also lower, not just polys. The JC I was from has a lower COP from about 5 years ago when I entered.
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equality!
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each side of the debates does have their valid points.
comparing a diploma and A lvl cert for uni admission is like comparing between an apple and an orange. there is few basis for comparison.
how do you determine who is more deserving of a place in uni, when you have different forms of applications?
can a AABB jc student score a GPA of 3.5 and above if he went through the poly route? likewise, can a poly grad with gpa 3.5 score AABB if he went through the A lvl route?
No, we do not know for sure. Each student have their separate strengths, for te JC student, he is more adept on the theoretical side of studies, and for the poly student, the practical application of knowledge.
however, we all know that not all certs are created equal. A diploma is a professional qualification which can find the student employment with viable career prospect. e.g. engineering. There is a possibility of the poly students rising through the corporate ranks to management level.
but for the A lvl grad, the cert is just an enhanced O lvl cert, and the range of jobs are limited to low-paying clerical jobs, with low or no prospect of promotion.
The A lvl grads have more to lose than poly grads if they do not make it to uni.
It is not good for the country to be stuck with too many people holding general certifications, such as A lvls. what we are lacking is are people with professional qualifications, thus the need to move more people into the diploma/degree tier.
Hence, we will always see a higher proportion of uni places open to A lvl grads than to poly grads.
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and to people who say that the COP for some poly courses are less than 15. it would be good to point out that poly/ jc COP have not been the same as 10 years back.
in the past, 8 points before bonus cutoffs can qualify you admission into prestigious JCs like raffles, hwachong.
nowadays, the COP for science stream in these JCs are 4 points, and arts, 5 points. 0 pointers are in abundance in these JCs.
so a COP of below 15 is nothing new.
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JC students are not guranteed a place in local unis either. around 12000 students sit for the A lvl every year. are there 12000 uni places reserved for all A lvl grads? clearly, no.
around 60-70% of A lvl students eventually make it to university (overseas and local).
for many students, if they cannot get a place in any of the local unis, there goes their dream of pursuing a degree, since they cannot afford to pursue a degree overseas. (overseas courses are not payable with cpf, and coupled with living expenses, that is around $90k for an aust eng degree. compared to $18k for an NUS degree.)
so for A lvl holders, its either you make it to uni, or you get stay poor for the rest of your life. more is put at stakes than a dip-holder. Thus, justifies a greater number of uni places for A lvl-holder.
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Lim Beng Tard, what a suitable name.
A fucking retarded beng
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
Just because the newspapers gave a few examples of O Level high scorers opting for the poly route doesnt mean that poly is anywhere near JC in scholastic calibre. You're sounding like a fat girl who insists on wearing micro bikinis because Oprah told her that big is beautiful.
Shows that you are doing your A levels, and feel that A levels students are more superior. =X