What I feel about ”Charismatic” Christians
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i know there are a lot of christians who go to church to check out the guys/girls...i find it quite pathetic leh...like can you be so desperate to go for service you dun believe in just coz you want to make some more friends??
like who goes to church coz itz fashionable anyway? i never heard of christianity being fashionable before... who would want to wake up early on sunday to go for service if they didn't actualyl have some personal faith and commitment?
i seriously dun understand ppl who treat church like a social club...
but speaking in tongues...thatz just a way of talkin to God wat...why do you have to diss it? juz coz ur not used to it...itz like if you walk into anything for the first time...it would also feel quite odd...
but then again...ive never been to city harvest so i dunno... -
depend on wat kind of personality u hav
me too 'old ' liao...charismatic dun suit me
go for solemm one....
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If you are afraid of praying in tongues or healing mass, you better wait till next time before you go...
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Is Touch Community considered "Charismatic"?
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Finally a moderator that's speaking some sense. We're living in SG and we should be more tolerant towards one another's faith just because we're a multi-racial society. If today there's this church bashing thread what is going to be tomorrow's? Come on pple, it's no use and no good bashing one another's church, temple, mosques etc. Let's be more understanding. Learn to say no if you're not comfortable and not be influenced into your decision making process.Originally posted by Ah_Nic:Remember guys, dont overdo it in this sensitive topic!
So far, I must agree with the author when he spoke about fellow christians who spoke in tongues. I, myself, felt pretty weird too.
City Harvest is big and perhaps the richest church right now in Sg, why they have such a big fellowing perhaps lies in their tactics of saving more souls.
Every religion employ tactics to save more souls, be it Buddism, Islamic, Christianity etc. Fellowers of such religion felt that it is correct and justified to save your soul. Their tactics may not please u, but it is what they must do if they believe in their religion. Some engaged in passive tactics, some r more aggressive.
I find that you shouldnt bitch about them when in the first place u could have prevented it from happening. Simply tell them that u r not interested to be in their church, or be frank, u r not comfortable with them. I often find myself using the latter reason more effectively.
It may be cruel to just say u r not comfortable with them, but this is what u truely felt isnt it?
Cheers!
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Then you have a lope sided view of charismatic churches...btw, CHC does not have their services in Suntec. Their church office is there. Perhaps you should update your memory....Originally posted by Doenitz:An observation:
Those charismatic Christian establishments never have a church building .What I mean is that they do not have a chapel type building with the cross sign.Usually,it is in some hall/theatrette even a small room.
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I concur.But still it is undisputable that many people are pissed off by CHC...Originally posted by tiggersgd:Finally a moderator that's speaking some sense. We're living in SG and we should be more tolerant towards one another's faith just because we're a multi-racial society. If today there's this church bashing thread what is going to be tomorrow's? Come on pple, it's no use and no good bashing one another's church, temple, mosques etc. Let's be more understanding. Learn to say no if you're not comfortable and not be influenced into your decision making process. -
Well most ppl do not go to church to check out guys/gals like they do in a pub. But they are invited to the church to join "the family" there. For many, they never felt loved and wanted till these Christians come along. It's really a good thing to bring love to others who feel lonely, miserable or left out in the society. However, the important thing is the intention of the Christians who are showing this love. It shouldn't be for the intention to just increase the numbers of members in the church but to really reach out and touch the person with the love he received from God and those around him. Even if the person does not join the church eventually. True intention of love is rare these days so many ppl do doubt the intention of many Christians. I think the onus should be on the Christian himself to reflect upon his intentions and actions.Originally posted by carpe_jugulum:i know there are a lot of christians who go to church to check out the guys/girls...i find it quite pathetic leh...like can you be so desperate to go for service you dun believe in just coz you want to make some more friends??
like who goes to church coz itz fashionable anyway? i never heard of christianity being fashionable before... who would want to wake up early on sunday to go for service if they didn't actualyl have some personal faith and commitment?
i seriously dun understand ppl who treat church like a social club...
but speaking in tongues...thatz just a way of talkin to God wat...why do you have to diss it? juz coz ur not used to it...itz like if you walk into anything for the first time...it would also feel quite odd...
but then again...ive never been to city harvest so i dunno...
But there are those who treat the church as a social club. To cling onto the "friends" there for support and companionship. Frankly, I think as Christians, we should be more charitable to share some love and time with these guys even if they don't really believe. Perhaps given the time and chance, they will be touched somehow and convert.
Well I am not dissing speaking in tongues. I can pray in tongues too... baby tongues tough.. I am still practising
Absoluting great gift from God. But the thing is do not bring non-Christians or lukewarm (not very stanuch) Christians into prayer meets with lots of ppl praying in tongues. Unlike most Christians who would have the time and desire to find out more, these guys would not have the patience to do so. They would just form their opinions and stay off the church (adding to all the negative stuff they have heard from it). So what I am suggesting most Christians is to use discreation about inviting ppl to the Chrismatic prayer meets.
CHC I guess has its ways to pray. And if that brings ppl to God, it can't be that bad. But what I am really against is to force God into ppl's throat and cause them to run away from God.... so guess who's gonna answer to God if there isn't as many Christians as there supposed to be, at the end of time -
Do you are fully conscious and aware that you are speaking in tongues? One thing that baffles me is whether you people(and those Taoist mediums) are conscious when you speak in tongues...Originally posted by catbfool:Well most ppl do not go to church to check out guys/gals like they do in a pub. But they are invited to the church to join "the family" there. For many, they never felt loved and wanted till these Christians come along. It's really a good thing to bring love to others who feel lonely, miserable or left out in the society. However, the important thing is the intention of the Christians who are showing this love. It shouldn't be for the intention to just increase the numbers of members in the church but to really reach out and touch the person with the love he received from God and those around him. Even if the person does not join the church eventually. True intention of love is rare these days so many ppl do doubt the intention of many Christians. I think the onus should be on the Christian himself to reflect upon his intentions and actions.
But there are those who treat the church as a social club. To cling onto the "friends" there for support and companionship. Frankly, I think as Christians, we should be more charitable to share some love and time with these guys even if they don't really believe. Perhaps given the time and chance, they will be touched somehow and convert.
Well I am not dissing speaking in tongues. I can pray in tongues too... baby tongues tough.. I am still practising Absoluting great gift from God. But the thing is do not bring non-Christians or lukewarm (not very stanuch) Christians into prayer meets with lots of ppl praying in tongues. Unlike most Christians who would have the time and desire to find out more, these guys would not have the patience to do so. They would just form their opinions and stay off the church (adding to all the negative stuff they have heard from it). So what I am suggesting most Christians is to use discreation about inviting ppl to the Chrismatic prayer meets.
CHC I guess has its ways to pray. And if that brings ppl to God, it can't be that bad. But what I am really against is to force God into ppl's throat and cause them to run away from God.... so guess who's gonna answer to God if there isn't as many Christians as there supposed to be, at the end of time -
Just wanna ask one qnÂ….if CHC is not a christian establishment, does it satisfy the criteria for a cult?
By Christian standards, it is very probable since I have seen Buddhism, Yoga, Role-Playing games, New Age movement, etc, being classified as cults. CHC seems a toned-down Osho movement. If one reads Osho’s books, one can see that he does have some spiritual insights, but his practices includes loud music and “female mediums” --- a polite word for mass orgies, which I think will always find a ready audience, but is hardly spiritually fulfilling.
So why is there the selective discrimination? This is a lesson in the way religions prey on the minds of people. One must separate religion from spirituality. Religions are nothing but a guide to spirituality. Spirituality is the relationship Man has with the Supreme. What does it matter if religions are different but lead to the same goal? Even when one has a chosen religion, it must be practiced in the true spiritual sense. Do not swear Blind allegiance to ANY religion. This is the path of Crusades and Jihads, a path far, far removed from the true spiritual path.
Besides, I have replied to another thread with my view on Church establishments. One can view it here: http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=41923&page=4 -
i think that there actually are many people who go to church and do one thing and then go out and do another thing. im a christian myself...but even tho im not perfect or what...the reason i go to church is ABOVE just socialising and checking out the guys or eating the food. but there really ARE people whose only motive for it is to chase galz etc... sometimes we're so intent on 'converting people' to increase our numbers that we forget that it's not the PEOPLE who are impt...but GOD... that's why a lot of dodgy preaching and bible bashing goes on...Originally posted by catbfool:Well most ppl do not go to church to check out guys/gals like they do in a pub. But they are invited to the church to join "the family" there. For many, they never felt loved and wanted till these Christians come along. It's really a good thing to bring love to others who feel lonely, miserable or left out in the society. However, the important thing is the intention of the Christians who are showing this love. It shouldn't be for the intention to just increase the numbers of members in the church but to really reach out and touch the person with the love he received from God and those around him. Even if the person does not join the church eventually. True intention of love is rare these days so many ppl do doubt the intention of many Christians. I think the onus should be on the Christian himself to reflect upon his intentions and actions.
But there are those who treat the church as a social club. To cling onto the "friends" there for support and companionship. Frankly, I think as Christians, we should be more charitable to share some love and time with these guys even if they don't really believe. Perhaps given the time and chance, they will be touched somehow and convert.
Well I am not dissing speaking in tongues. I can pray in tongues too... baby tongues tough.. I am still practising Absoluting great gift from God. But the thing is do not bring non-Christians or lukewarm (not very stanuch) Christians into prayer meets with lots of ppl praying in tongues. Unlike most Christians who would have the time and desire to find out more, these guys would not have the patience to do so. They would just form their opinions and stay off the church (adding to all the negative stuff they have heard from it). So what I am suggesting most Christians is to use discreation about inviting ppl to the Chrismatic prayer meets.
CHC I guess has its ways to pray. And if that brings ppl to God, it can't be that bad. But what I am really against is to force God into ppl's throat and cause them to run away from God.... so guess who's gonna answer to God if there isn't as many Christians as there supposed to be, at the end of time
but if ur a 'victim' of bible bashing...u know that the person at least cares enuff abt you to want to try n share with you...even if they go abt it the wrong way... -
hahahaha... well i don't know how the Taoist mediums "speak in tongues" but i don't think it's not the same thing.Originally posted by Doenitz:Do you are fully conscious and aware that you are speaking in tongues? One thing that baffles me is whether you people(and those Taoist mediums) are conscious when you speak in tongues... Hope I m not offending any Taoist mediums here.
Speaking in tongues is a tricky thing... one needs to be careful that it is not just talking rubbish ie blah-ing away..... one needs spiritual guidance, constant prayer... not everyone is given the gift of tongues (some may disagree with me here) cause everyone's ministry is different. But many would receive it. The gift of tongues needs to be prayed for and once the person receives the gift, some discernment needs to be done, so as to ensure it is truely from God... and not something else (u never know).
Praying in tongues needs faith ie once you know you have it, use it without any doubts. Practise it and it would help you in your prayer life.
This is from my Christian viewpoint lah, does not represent what all Christian views. Bottom line: tongues is from God, do not abuse -
Peeps, this topic is getting alittle bit outta hand. Pls control your use of words in here especially its a sensitive topic about religion.
Any forumites who felt that this topic is disturbing to them may send me a note and i will close it.
Cheers! -
erm don't think CHC is a cult... i guess for any group to be a cult, the group would be quite close minded about most things ie I am always right and you are so wrong etc... A cult would usually use beliefs to influence, indoctrine, brainwash ppl so as to serve its selfish purpose. Typically, a cult judges ppl's character and "send them to hell" (what the heck, only God knows who deserve to go to hell). The thing is there are too many gray areas in identify which groups are cults. So we try not to judge groups as cults... esp when they have much more money than most churches, one of their pastor sell albums and they got some of the most expensive that every church dreams about.Originally posted by talk_cock:Just wanna ask one qnÂ….if CHC is not a christian establishment, does it satisfy the criteria for a cult?
By Christian standards, it is very probable since I have seen Buddhism, Yoga, Role-Playing games, New Age movement, etc, being classified as cults. CHC seems a toned-down Osho movement. If one reads Osho’s books, one can see that he does have some spiritual insights, but his practices includes loud music and “female mediums” --- a polite word for mass orgies, which I think will always find a ready audience, but is hardly spiritually fulfilling.
So why is there the selective discrimination? This is a lesson in the way religions prey on the minds of people. One must separate religion from spirituality. Religions are nothing but a guide to spirituality. Spirituality is the relationship Man has with the Supreme. What does it matter if religions are different but lead to the same goal? Even when one has a chosen religion, it must be practiced in the true spiritual sense. Do not swear Blind allegiance to ANY religion. This is the path of Crusades and Jihads, a path far, far removed from the true spiritual path.
Besides, I have replied to another thread with my view on Church establishments. One can view it here: http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=41923&page=4
Personally I enjoy big crowds singing together praising God, better still if the worship leader is lively and can draw ppl's enthusiasm. To draw it parallel to some mass orgies in some cult is somewhat funny (to me only, i always try to see the funny side of life) and very offending to many ppl who enjoy prayer this way. This form of prayer can be a very enriching and refreshing to many. It is just that some may need it to sustain their spiritual life with God, others would very much prefer the peace and listen to God. Both ways do about the same thing.
I know you have many misgivings about religion esp its management structure. When any organisation gets too big, there are bound to be problems. When the religious get into political power, there is a very good chance that there would be lots of manipulations using the name of God. But know this, the religious organisation is just not only about its leaders but also consist largely of its followers.
Take the Catholic church for example, thru' history, there were many years which corruption, sins and lots of crap abound in the church. But how the heck did it survive till now with 1 billion followers? It is the faith of its faithful, the grassroots who is the church. The church is broken, but it is the gift from God. Look at the body of Christ on the cross, it is broken but it is just that which saves the world. The church is afterall the body of Christ and not the crap/sins of those in control (dirt/spittal on Christ's body). Would you forsake the church because of its flaws? Or would you love it despite its flaws and love it because many more struggles with you to find God in their everyday life? -
first i must apologise to anyone that i might have offend, or bore anyone with too much "Christian-ee" talkOriginally posted by carpe_jugulum:i think that there actually are many people who go to church and do one thing and then go out and do another thing. im a christian myself...but even tho im not perfect or what...the reason i go to church is ABOVE just socialising and checking out the guys or eating the food. but there really ARE people whose only motive for it is to chase galz etc... sometimes we're so intent on 'converting people' to increase our numbers that we forget that it's not the PEOPLE who are impt...but GOD... that's why a lot of dodgy preaching and bible bashing goes on...
but if ur a 'victim' of bible bashing...u know that the person at least cares enuff abt you to want to try n share with you...even if they go abt it the wrong way...
'Converting ppl' has never been about increasing the number, but to bring ppl to God. God is of course important, without God, we are less than nothing (don't ask me how that is possible ). But when you look at the Bible, Jesus's focus has always been on people. God loves people and treasures everyone. That is why people is important to God and to us. To care for the others goes beyond one's liking because now it has to be unconditional (the way how Jesus shows us). But please don't misled anyone thinking that you want a relationship out of it. To care for a platonic way. Hopefully, we can let down, those who are chasing us, gently and bring God to them.
Bible bashing... though I applaud the intentions of many who cares about your neighbour by "bashing them", there more ways to convert a prodigal son. Tact needs to be used to tell ppl their flaws and weakness. It must be supportive, caring and constructive. Never criticise the person, but the actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin etc. Reaffirm the person's good points after criticising so that it wouldn't seem too loopsided. Try to emphatise and understand before criticising as well.
I can't say that I am for Bible bashing... can't remember that Jesus used the scriptures to "bash" anyone. Unless someone used the scriptures to challenge him first. -
Aiya,I don't care about such things la.I rather read about the complexities of the catenaccio system or postmodernism than bother to find out about such things.Originally posted by tiggersgd:Then you have a lope sided view of charismatic churches...btw, CHC does not have their services in Suntec. Their church office is there. Perhaps you should update your memory....
Just my two cents worth. -
Quoting another forumite in Sammyboy
"dun go for such free meal
i would not even consider such offer, cause I really really cannot stand it when people claim jesus this, jesus that, god this god that, thank this thank that, pray for this pray for that.
My head will explode by listening to all these comments constantly.
It will be free food, but get stress anger and total disbelieve.
never never date a christian bird unless you are christian yourself, cause you will have big headache in future. I am speaking with experience. Trust me. I dun want to go into detail, but it was hell. "
I concur wholeheartedly!!! -
I got this from another forum.Comments?
"What follows can be deemed as a rather sensitive topic to Christians, and I hope whoever who reads on analyse the situation objectively, rationally and sanely. Let's leave the teachings of religions out and focus on the issue, and the implications.
I got this email exchange from Harvest Times. A publication of the City Harvest Church. Just in case you are questioning the validity of this email, the email was published online at the City Harvest Website.
The subjects - both belonging to the same church are John Gagliardi and Nanz Chong-Komo, a prominent businesswoman who is the Managing Director of the famous “ONE.99shop” chain of stores.
NanzÂ’s 1st Email to John G.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nanz Chong
To: John Gagliardi
Subject: Greetings! Need your advice.
Dear Brother John Gagliardi,
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus.
My name is Nanz Chong, and I am currently worshipping in City Harvest Church. IÂ’ve heard you speak on 2 separate occasions. First at Shangri-La Hotel for a Business Breakthrough seminar, and then also at Suntec City for a Market Place Convention. I thank the Lord Jesus for you, as your speeches have truly blessed me!
IÂ’ve founded a retail business in Singapore call 'ONE.99shop'. It is a store where all things are sold at a fixed price of $1.99. The business has since expanded into 12 branches island-wide, and two new concept shops, U-Neek and Bubble Bags, are currently being developed. All this could not have taken place without the blessings of the Lord!
Brother John, I need your advice over some questions that I have been praying about.
With the success of my business, the chairman of an MNC in Kuala Lumpur has expressed interest in investing in my company. On my side, I am prepared to offer a 20% share of my ONE.99shop in Singapore. This investor has proposed a joint venture with me to bring the chain over to London, where we will both have a 50/50 share.
The questions that I face are :
(1) With the potential investor being a non-believer, should I be 'unequally yoked' in this proposed joint venture?
Would it be better if he is becomes a minor shareholder in my business?
If not, then what if the company goes IPO one day, and there are many more non-believing shareholders in my business?
(2) Is it advisable for the London deal to be 50/50, such that a believer and a non-believer have equal shares of the company?
(3) How can my company be a ‘Christian' one if I have a non-believing partner?
I look forward to your reply.
Thank you and May the Lord continue to bless you.
In Christ,
Nanz
John G.Â’s reply to Nanz
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gagliardi
To: Nanz Chong
Subject: Re: Greetings! Need your advice.
Dear Sister Nanz:
I have, as IÂ’ve promised, prayed, talked to some wise people, looked at the original Greek, and read a couple of relevant books with regards to the matter that you have asked for my advice.
It is a common issue, and one that we should be very clear about.
Having said that, it is not my role to tell you what you should do - ultimately, it is between you and God, and you must have the peace of the Holy Spirit in your heart, whatever you decide. Pray and read the Word daily as you come to your decision - God will speak to you.
It seems to me that the intent of the Scripture in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 is to save Christians from going into marriage or other partnerships with non-Christians because of the potential for conflict and disagreement. I don't think it necessarily means that Christians are better or more ethical than non-believers (although they definitely should be), but rather that such "yoked" or "joined" relationships have great potential for strife when the "crunch" in the business comes.
Relationships, whether marital or business, always start off with a honeymoon period- where everything is forgiven, and no problems loom. But with time, questions and issues will start to arise, and the two partners will then try to find their own solutions from two totally conflicting worldviews.
In going back to the original Greek, the word for "unequally yoked" is "heterodzoogeho", which means to bond or join or yoke (a yoke originally was a wooden crosspiece fastened over the necks of two oxen and attached to the plough or wagon to be drawn) differently, or to associate discordantly.
The Greek word for "unbelievers" is "apistos" meaning disbelieving, without faith, or an untrustworthy person.
So the verse has the essential characteristics of "discord" or “conflict” in the partnership, and the further implication of the "unbeliever" being "untrustworthy".
Therefore, it is clear that in going into any sort of partnership with a non-Christian, there lies the potential for discord and distrust.
If it is an equal partnership, 50/50, then the potential for conflict is almost inevitable. If the non-believer is a minority partner, say 20% as you mention, then you are able to control policies and procedures and the potential for conflict is less.
In the case of an IPO, the individual shareholders are usually so small percentage-wise that this is virtually a non-issue. Ordinary shareholders have little individual input in the control of a public listed company. In that case, you may well be able to control the company very effectively, with a relatively small percentage of shareholding.
I think the most important thing is to be totally honest and up-front with the potential partner, and tell them exactly where you stand on a number of issues.
Some of the issues I think you should confront include:
- Will the company tithe its profits to the Lord, and/or donate funds to Christian and other charities? If so, how much, when and to whom?- Will we hire family members into the business?
- Will we have a policy on hiring Christians/non-Christians and/or other faiths?
- Will the business be used for evangelization in one way or another?
- What happens if and when we sell the business?
- Are we willing to be accountable to each other and to an outside group?
- How will the death of a partner affect the distribution of assets?
- How do we collect debts - do we go to court and sue?
- Personal standards of morality, honesty etc..
Let me quote a paragraph from "Business by the Book" by Larry Burkett "Few knowledgeable Christians would marry a nonbeliever (although some foolishly do). Yet many Christians will enter partnerships with nonbelievers, thinking they can make them work. If they succeed, it is generally because they aren't committed to applying God's principles to their business. Usually these partnerships are rationalized on the basis of economic necessity - not a Biblical principle...For the committed believer, the decision becomes, 'Do I serve God or man?'
The best counsel I can give anyone about partnerships is to approach them with a high degree of caution. Unraveling a partnership is usually as heart-wrenching as a divorce...If you can reach a mutually satisfactory agreement on a partnership, I recommend that every single detail be written down...if the prospective partner is offended...it is better to know his attitude in advance."
So Mr. Burkett is VERY cautious in his business dealings, and I agree with his concerns.
Although the actual Scripture on "yoking" that everyone quotes is 2 Corinthians 6:14, but it is just one verse in a sustained piece of teaching by Paul that goes on from verse 11 to verse 18, and even on into 2 Corinthians 7:1.
It is a major theme, and quite a strong one, because Paul goes on to make the point that we are the temple of the Living God, and as such, we have to be very careful about who or what we link/yoke/unite that temple to.
Read carefully especially verses 14 through 17. He talks of righteousness being yoked with lawlessness, light with darkness, Christ with Belial (the devil), and the temple of God (us) with idols.
It is very strong teaching, and ultimately, my advice to you is to pray over these verses, asking the Holy Spirit to open them up to you and seeking the Godly advice of a few mature counselors, and then let the peace of God rule your decision.
Personally, I would say the 50/50 option is very dangerous; the 20% option is cautiously open to you as long as you have full control and all the issues are understood and agreed up-front in writing. The IPO option is, in my opinion, a different issue altogether, not necessarily invoking the "yoking" sanction mentioned in the Bible (unless it is a very unusual kind of public company that more resembles a partnership).
I hope this helps somewhat. I know it is not definitive, but as I said at the outset, it is ultimately very much between you and God, and what you feel God is telling you in this specific situation. God may tell you to do something that would otherwise seem strange, for His own particular purpose - but in the absence of any strong leading, just be generally very, very cautious in going into any business relationship with non-believers.
Proverbs 19:21 says: "There are many plans in a man's heart; nevertheless, the Lord's council - that will stand."
Always trust God totally, and obey Him - He will bless your obedience as He promises in Deut 28:1-14.
The Business Breakthrough leadership will hold you up in prayer, and please don't hesitate to email or call me personally if you would like to talk further.
Your brother in Christ
John Gagliardi -
what do u wan us to comment abt?
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i think this email is quite old.........
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by tat definitin, islam and christianity has become a cult as well. since all non believers are damned to hell.Originally posted by catbfool:i guess for any group to be a cult, the group would be quite close minded about most things ie I am always right and you are so wrong etc... A cult would usually use beliefs to influence, indoctrine, brainwash ppl so as to serve its selfish purpose. Typically, a cult judges ppl's character and "send them to hell" (what the heck, only God knows who deserve to go to hell). -
go look at this link below on how to identify cults.
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultic.htm
For me, in short the most outstanding and recognisable trait of a cult is that the leader always claim to be from God and the messenger to deliver the people from the apocalypse and making people give things to him/her. -
i think every religion has its own teachings on who goes to hell and who goes heaven. i believe buddhism and taoism has also isnt it? it isnt just islam or christianity. Do good and you go heaven? How much good can we do? How many people can claim that they do more good than bad? Is bad things onli confined to arson, murder etc, isnt lying, having malicious thoughts, cursing people..isnt this bad? I dun really see a person who can do more good than bad, maybe some but exceptions rather than norm.Originally posted by nismoS132:by tat definitin, islam and christianity has become a cult as well. since all non believers are damned to hell. -
in taoism everyone goes to hell. it's just a place where dead ppl go. wait, hell isn't the right word here. it's called the nether world. u go there to wait to be recycled -> reincarnate.Originally posted by gasband:i think every religion has its own teachings on who goes to hell and who goes heaven. i believe buddhism and taoism has also isnt it? it isnt just islam or christianity. Do good and you go heaven? How much good can we do? How many people can claim that they do more good than bad? Is bad things onli confined to arson, murder etc, isnt lying, having malicious thoughts, cursing people..isnt this bad? I dun really see a person who can do more good than bad, maybe some but exceptions rather than norm.
same as buddhism.
personally i think all this heaven hell stuff is crap. when u die, the last thing u see b4 your eyes, the thoughts that run through your mind, that is your heaven and your hell. if when u die u only have regrets, that is hell. -
well theres such a thing call karma and i believe u have to do certain things before you can attain that, not everyone can have that. What i am trying to say is not to discredit any teachings here. What i am trying to do is that every religion always have teachings to do certain things so that you can reap benefits. Even reincarnation into what animal or humans depend on your doings in this life isnt it? All i can, every religion has a general cause and effect teaching, so what's so wrong abt islam or christianity teaching on it?Originally posted by nismoS132:in taoism everyone goes to hell. it's just a place where dead ppl go. wait, hell isn't the right word here. it's called the nether world. u go there to wait to be recycled -> reincarnate.
same as buddhism.
personally i think all this heaven hell stuff is crap. when u die, the last thing u see b4 your eyes, the thoughts that run through your mind, that is your heaven and your hell. if when u die u only have regrets, that is hell.