What I feel about ”Charismatic” Christians
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“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14.6)Originally posted by gasband:I guess i just wanna summarise it up by saying that a religions' teachings do not amount to condemnation of another. It is true that God says that only through Jesus can people come to Him. That is a truth in christianity but may not be to some of you. When I tell my frens this truth i believe, i make it clear in no way do i condemn them or their religion, in the same way, i take no offence when someone tells me that christianity is alot of bull cos i rather people tells me that than telling me they do not know anything abt christianity. To be able to say Jesus is bull means you must have read quite abit about Him, and I thank God for that
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One of the most misinterpreted statements in the Bible. A Christian fundamentalist will read it literally as Christianity is the ONLY way to the Supreme. It was not what Jesus meant, what he meant was that unless one grows to become his standard, no one can go to the Supreme. The key to understanding this is to remember Jesus is Selfless. How can one who is so selfless make an arrogant statement?
Did not Jesus also say “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5.17) What is the law that he was referring to? If one reads more, what he basically expounds is the law of Karma, the Golden Rule or whatever you call it.
Christian fundamentalists will encounter great difficulty in cracking the mysteries of Revelation. I think only few Christians really know what the Revelation is all about. Indeed, one will find it hard to understand the meaning unless they look outside Christianity for the answer. Or perhaps someone can explain what the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets mean?
Fundamentalists will also have great problems explaining Genesis. In fact, I think many have also not understood Genesis. God asked Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed and thus gained the knowledge of good and evil. To return to the garden of Eden, one has to spit out the knowledge of good and evil. That is, look past the relativities of good and evil for the Absolute Truth. This is a far cry from the way Christians are taught, in fact, they carve the world into a battleground between Christians and non-Christians.
There is Truth inherent in ANY religion, miracles happen in lands of all religions, be assured of this fact. If one is truly in search for Truth, one should read the Koran, Bible, Sutras, Gita, Tao de Jing, etc, and draw out the common threads in them.These were not written for just followers of their own religions but for all who seek Truth.True spiritual men rejoice in Truth practiced in any form, religious bigots rejoice in religious pomp.
Men of Realisation teach not religion, but spirituality. These men are far fewer in numbers than religious bigots. Do not swallow line, hook and sinker everything taught by unrealized men, no matter what their prestige or position. Above all, DO NOT condemn ANY religions, whether outwardly or inwardly, for many things are hidden from ordinary sight.
A few shall see what none yet understands,
God shall grow up while the wise men talk and sleep.
For Man shall not know the Coming till its hour,
And belief should not be till the Work is done.
God must be born on Earth and be as man
That man being human may grow even as God.
---- AuthorÂ’s name withheld (1950)
Made by a true Man of Realisation, I will not allow his name to be sullied by revealing it here. I am sorry if i have offended anyone here---just that there are things that many do not see, i apologise heartily if anyone is offended.
talk_cock's crap:
Faith is blind. Wisdom is lame. Let the blind carry the lame so that one can reach Truth. -
Paiseh.Originally posted by Prodigy:seriousy, no offence or anything
but i dont understand what you're talking about
since when did i put faith in science?
Was playing punk with your signature mah!
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i dun think you understand what has been said. If you truly believes in God, you will naturally bear fruits (good works). If a person persistently do bad things but claims he is a believer in God, he may not be tats why God says not all who calls me Lord will be in heaven with me. However, even true believers are not perfect, if a true believer committs murder and is repentant and ask for forgivenness from God, while he may not escape the physical punishment like death sentence, God will forgive him. If he is not repentant, God similarly will judge him, as for how God judge, i dun noe, I am not God.Originally posted by Evil Clown:DOES THAT MEAN THAT I CAN KILL THOUSANDS AND YET GO TO HEAVEN IF I BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS? -
Originally posted by talk_cock:
Firstly God is bigger than science. Science is but human knowledge, science is but human's way of trying to understand the amazing ways that this world works. Has it totally succeeded? I dun think so, there are still so many things science do not know.
Talk_cockÂ’s crap:
Guns donÂ’t kill people.
Death doesnÂ’t kill people.
It is a spiritual fact!
You seem to put faith in science. But science and spirituality are one; just that science has not caught up with spirituality yet. The miracles in the ancient texts (Koran, Bible, Sutras) CAN be explained by Universal Laws. Just as gravity exists before Newton, Universal Laws exist before scientific discoveries.
Buddhism and the ancient Yogic Science will one day unite science and spirituality. Many do not know why Yoga is now practiced in the West, or why Tibetan monks have reincarnated as Westerners. Dalai Lama has agreed that if science can prove that any single Buddhist doctrine can be proved wrong, he will take it out of his teachings, specifically on the cardinal notion of reincarnation. (To prove a theory wrong, one needs only to prove with one example. To prove a theory right, one needs to prove it true for all cases)
Christianity and Islam have much ‘fate’ in the coming decades. [b]They will have to show the world the true spirit that is worthy of their religions. Few Christians have understood the true significance of Luke 12:51-52, “Do you suppose that I have come to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.” The sudden revival of Gnostic Christians (Christians who believe they can reach God without the help of Churches) and Islamic Sufis (Muslim who believe in Inner Jihad) is but a small step.
[/b]
Secondly, Luke 12:51-52 is written not to say Jesus came with the purpose of creating chaos. In the context of the whole chapter, Jesus meant that because of what He is preaching, it will create divisions, because many will agree and many will not.
Thirdly, GNOSTICS are not christians although they claim to be. They deny the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind and we would still be lost in our sins. -
Originally posted by talk_cock:
I have met many people like you and such responses and I guess I would only like to leave this verse with you,
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14.6)
One of the most misinterpreted statements in the Bible. A Christian fundamentalist will read it literally as Christianity is the ONLY way to the Supreme. It was not what Jesus meant, what he meant was that unless one grows to become his standard, no one can go to the Supreme. The key to understanding this is to remember [b]Jesus is Selfless. How can one who is so selfless make an arrogant statement?
Did not Jesus also say “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5.17) What is the law that he was referring to? If one reads more, what he basically expounds is the law of Karma, the Golden Rule or whatever you call it.
Christian fundamentalists will encounter great difficulty in cracking the mysteries of Revelation. I think only few Christians really know what the Revelation is all about. Indeed, one will find it hard to understand the meaning unless they look outside Christianity for the answer. Or perhaps someone can explain what the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets mean?
Fundamentalists will also have great problems explaining Genesis. In fact, I think many have also not understood Genesis. God asked Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed and thus gained the knowledge of good and evil. To return to the garden of Eden, one has to spit out the knowledge of good and evil. That is, look past the relativities of good and evil for the Absolute Truth. This is a far cry from the way Christians are taught, in fact, they carve the world into a battleground between Christians and non-Christians.
There is Truth inherent in ANY religion, miracles happen in lands of all religions, be assured of this fact. If one is truly in search for Truth, one should read the Koran, Bible, Sutras, Gita, Tao de Jing, etc, and draw out the common threads in them.These were not written for just followers of their own religions but for all who seek Truth.True spiritual men rejoice in Truth practiced in any form, religious bigots rejoice in religious pomp.
Men of Realisation teach not religion, but spirituality. These men are far fewer in numbers than religious bigots. Do not swallow line, hook and sinker everything taught by unrealized men, no matter what their prestige or position. Above all, DO NOT condemn ANY religions, whether outwardly or inwardly, for many things are hidden from ordinary sight.
A few shall see what none yet understands,
God shall grow up while the wise men talk and sleep.
For Man shall not know the Coming till its hour,
And belief should not be till the Work is done.
God must be born on Earth and be as man
That man being human may grow even as God.
---- AuthorÂ’s name withheld (1950)
Made by a true Man of Realisation, I will not allow his name to be sullied by revealing it here. I am sorry if i have offended anyone here---just that there are things that many do not see, i apologise heartily if anyone is offended.
talk_cock's crap:
Faith is blind. Wisdom is lame. Let the blind carry the lame so that one can reach Truth.
[/b]
Matthew 11:15
He who has ears, let him hear.
God bless you. -
oh, then say earlier lahOriginally posted by talk_cock:Paiseh.
Was playing punk with your signature mah! -
Christian fundamentalists will encounter great difficulty in cracking the mysteries of Revelation. I think only few Christians really know what the Revelation is all about. Indeed, one will find it hard to understand the meaning unless they look outside Christianity for the answer. Or perhaps someone can explain what the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets mean?
The book of revelation is not used for telling the future, it is used for analysing the past i.e hitler and world war two -
i think u get facts soemwhat incorrect. revelation is the most controversy bk in the bible n there's lots of debates n arguements regarding this bk.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The book of revelation is not used for telling the future, it is used for analysing the past i.e hitler and world war two
Revelation is bascially tells us wads the events of the end times n the coming of christ b like. -
we all have our views....
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views is ok...i'm juz correcting ur views...ur views is somewhat misinformating to the public ..........This bk is hard to intrepret though.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:we all have our views....
Thnks for ur concern n i dun wan to stir anotehr religous conflict again.
thnks again.
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Originally posted by gasband:Firstly God is bigger than science. Science is but human knowledge, science is but human's way of trying to understand the amazing ways that this world works. Has it totally succeeded? I dun think so, there are still so many things science do not know.
I said that science and spirituality will one day be united, but I did not say when. The Bible says that God created the world in just 7 days and ended with Jesus saying that he will come soon. But 2000 years have passed since the birth of Jesus. Why has he not come after so long? Did Genesis lie or did Jesus lie? Neither Genesis nor Jesus lie. The reason? Go ponder on it. Yes, God is bigger than science. But some people think that their minds are greater than God, for they restrict God to only one form. Even now, people can go for plastic surgery to change their form, yet some deny God this ability. So is God greater or is the Imagination greater? Go ponder on it.
Secondly, Luke 12:51-52 is written not to say Jesus came with the purpose of creating chaos. In the context of the whole chapter, Jesus meant that because of what He is preaching, it will create divisions, because many will agree and many will not. In a well, a frog is king.
In an ocean, a frog is nothing.
Go ponder on it.
Thirdly, GNOSTICS are not christians although they claim to be. They deny the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind and we would still be lost in our sins. Gnostics believe in direct experience, not book knowledge. Just as one can learn, but never master, driving from a book, one can learn but not understand God from a book.
People forget when Jesus was around, they learn from him on a first-hand account basis, not from a dead book. The Orthodox Church, allied with the nobility, denounced Gnostics as ‘heretics”. In AD 447, Pope Leo the Great said Gnostic texts ‘should not only be forbidden, but entirely destroyed and burned with fire.’ In AD 553, reincarnation was denounced as heresy and taken out of the Bible. Salvation has to be earned not merely by going to one faith, but by proving that one is truly worthy. (if one can crack the first question and think a bit more, one will see why the last statement MUST be true, although I will not force it here) Go ponder on it. -
Thank you. I have already heard.Originally posted by gasband:I have met many people like you and such responses and I guess I would only like to leave this verse with you,
Matthew 11:15
He who has ears, let him hear.
God bless you.
I too have met many people such as you, but seldom do I meet someone such as I.
If I do meet you, will i see one who has embraced the wider vision?
I too leave this few verses with you.
The Kingdom of God is within you.
Seek and you shall find.
Let the heart be the Guide. -
Thanks. God bless you.Originally posted by talk_cock:Thank you. I have already heard.
I too have met many people such as you, but seldom do I meet someone such as I.
If I do meet you, will i see one who has embraced the wider vision?
I too leave this few verses with you.
The Kingdom of God is within you.
Seek and you shall find.
Let the heart be the Guide. -
Originally posted by talk_cock:
God bless you.
[bquote:
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Originally posted by gasband:
Firstly God is bigger than science. Science is but human knowledge, science is but human's way of trying to understand the amazing ways that this world works. Has it totally succeeded? I dun think so, there are still so many things science do not know.
I said that science and spirituality will one day be united, but I did not say when. The Bible says that God created the world in just 7 days and ended with Jesus saying that he will come soon. But 2000 years have passed since the birth of Jesus. Why has he not come after so long? Did Genesis lie or did Jesus lie? Neither Genesis nor Jesus lie. The reason? Go ponder on it.
Yes, God is bigger than science. But some people think that their minds are greater than God, for they restrict God to only one form. Even now, people can go for plastic surgery to change their form, yet some deny God this ability. So is God greater or is the Imagination greater? Go ponder on it.
Secondly, Luke 12:51-52 is written not to say Jesus came with the purpose of creating chaos. In the context of the whole chapter, Jesus meant that because of what He is preaching, it will create divisions, because many will agree and many will not.
In a well, a frog is king.
In an ocean, a frog is nothing.
Go ponder on it.
Thirdly, GNOSTICS are not christians although they claim to be. They deny the incarnation of God as the Son. In so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind and we would still be lost in our sins.
Gnostics believe in direct experience, not book knowledge. Just as one can learn, but never master, driving from a book, one can learn but not understand God from a book.
People forget when Jesus was around, they learn from him on a first-hand account basis, not from a dead book. The Orthodox Church, allied with the nobility, denounced Gnostics as ‘heretics”. In AD 447, Pope Leo the Great said Gnostic texts ‘should not only be forbidden, but entirely destroyed and burned with fire.’ In AD 553, reincarnation was denounced as heresy and taken out of the Bible. Salvation has to be earned not merely by going to one faith, but by proving that one is truly worthy. (if one can crack the first question and think a bit more, one will see why the last statement MUST be true, although I will not force it here) Go ponder on it.
][/b] -
Many may wonder what I am trying to achieve by posting these knowledge here. I do not know you; you do not know me. We are just fellow travelers on a journey. I do not seek to reduce anybodyÂ’s faith or promote any religion. Upon the relativities inherrent in this world, there is only one Absolute Truth. Realising (not just knowing) this Truth is Man's Eternal Quest. Continue on with your religion, but strive to be like the Lord you follow and exhibit selfless love, not the love that discriminates between Christians and non-Christians. One should not see anyone as Christians/ Muslims/ Buddhists/ Hinduis/etc, one should see all as fellow human beings. The mind that seeks Unity differs greatly from the mind that seeks Division. Change the narrow divisional thinking in this way:
Good/Evil Non-Dualism Unity
In Truth, all Paths are equally difficult, yet all lead to the same Destination. The Path of Selfless Love and the Path of Peace and Brotherhood are designed to cross each other. If one fails even in the simple quizzes, how can one hope to pass the tests or the examinations? The Lord does not give anyone an exam so that he can condemn one, He gives one an exam in order to promote one to a higher level. None knows when the Lord wants you to sit for the tests or examinations. Therefore be prepared in the quizzes by daily practice so that you do not fail when the time comes. -
Consult your heart, and you will hear the secret ordinance of God proclaimed by the heartÂ’s inward knowledge, which is real faith and divinity.
--- Prophet Muhammad
(Did you treat your enemy with love?) -
God bless you.
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Same to you.Originally posted by gasband:God bless you. -
"The problem with Christianity is that there are many Christians who think they have the truth while everyone is going to hell. I read and study the Bible, and I pray to God but I dun attend churches because I had met so many hypocrites at churches in Singapore. Although I know many Christians who are sincere, I had also met my fair share of ignorant and arrogant Christians. Here are some of my personal feelings:
Firstly, one can never prove Christianity is the only way, neither can you prove that it is not... Because for every evidence or arguement, there is always a counter arguement. (You just to read widely or search on the internet to find out more.) Sadly, many Christians do not do so and go ard criticizing about other religions.
Secondly, many Churches are been run as a company in Singapore, its all abt profit/loss, ppl who are saved/ppl who are lost, attendance or $$$. Who cares if you are the biggest Church in Singapore, or have a nice building? if thats what christianity is all abt..?? no wonder so many ppl dun like Christians.
Lastly, some ppl attend church becoz its a good way to meet ppl or made friends. While some attend church becoz its a 'feel-good' thing to do on e weekend. How many ppl actually read the Bible, and do what they preach... like helping the poor?
Dun criticize something unless u know enough of it... same for those who criticize christians. There are many Christians who are sincere and have a good heart. Just want to share a bible verse to with u all:
"Religion that God our Father accept as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
James 1:27 " -
agree... revelation most controversial cause we dun have dead ppl coming back to us to enlighten us bout the last chapter of the bible... gotta die then we know mah...Originally posted by duotiga83:i think u get facts soemwhat incorrect. revelation is the most controversy bk in the bible n there's lots of debates n arguements regarding this bk.
Revelation is bascially tells us wads the events of the end times n the coming of christ b like. -
But seriously lar... we all are christians cos it is like...becoz it is very popular and quite american...it is the in thing lar....
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gasband, thanks for your replies. You rock!
CH doesn't have a church in Suntec. Just it's admin office over there. i think there is a misunderstanding. -
reminds me in Luke 14 when a big crowd followed Jesus cos it was the cool thing, the in thing, the happening thing, the popular thing (big crowd, free seminar, free food, free medical care). Then Jesus said to them if you wanna follow me then you must say no to your own desires and selfish ambitions- just like u r going to yr own electric chair- dying to your self in order to really follow me. Guess what? Lots of them musta left Him. Jesus ain't interested in big crowds wanting to be seen in the in place. If you ain't prepared to give up living to please yrself, then by Jesus' definition u r not a Christian. Oh american huh? Yeah, still remember when Clinton was telling lies during his impeachment trial for his inappropriate relationship? He was still in church on Sundays carrying a big bible, followed by news photographers. In politics, Image is important man. You call him a Christian? Please don't cos there are many forumites here who will shoot a hypocrite from 100m.Originally posted by chaar123:But seriously lar... we all are christians cos it is like...becoz it is very popular and quite american...it is the in thing lar.... -
I GO CHURCH BECAUSE MY FRIEND SAY VERY EASY TO GET ONE NIGHT STAND THERE
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[quote]Originally posted by talk_cock:
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14.6)
One of the most misinterpreted statements in the Bible. A Christian fundamentalist will read it literally as Christianity is the ONLY way to the Supreme. It was not what Jesus meant, what he meant was that unless one grows to become his standard, no one can go to the Supreme. The key to understanding this is to remember [b]Jesus is Selfless. How can one who is so selfless make an arrogant statement?
Did not Jesus also say “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5.17) What is the law that he was referring to? If one reads more, what he basically expounds is the law of Karma, the Golden Rule or whatever you call it.
Christian fundamentalists will encounter great difficulty in cracking the mysteries of Revelation. I think only few Christians really know what the Revelation is all about. Indeed, one will find it hard to understand the meaning unless they look outside Christianity for the answer. Or perhaps someone can explain what the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets mean?
Fundamentalists will also have great problems explaining Genesis. In fact, I think many have also not understood Genesis. God asked Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed and thus gained the knowledge of good and evil. To return to the garden of Eden, one has to spit out the knowledge of good and evil. That is, look past the relativities of good and evil for the Absolute Truth. This is a far cry from the way Christians are taught, in fact, they carve the world into a battleground between Christians and non-Christians.
HI Cocky
If I quoted the Koran and use that to attempt to discredit Islam, I will be shot to pieces. Why? Cos I haven't read it through, don't know the whole story, the flow, and any average muslim would able to see my flaws in interpretation. That is the problem with you. Yr intepretation of the bible passages you that you quoted just display yr great ignorance of the bible. That shouldn't be a shock as I dun think u would confess to a be a bible student yrself. I'm not sure if I should take the time to correct you as you may not even interested in the truth. So do some of us a favour- the next time before you quote the bible, could you do some background reading first, or just put it as a series of questions. Otherwise just stay with yr new age or agnostic theories, and allow those who know the bible a chance to keep their food in their stomachs and not have to vomit it all out after reading your post.