LTA knew about Circle Line danger long ago
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Come for the zoo outingOriginally posted by HENG@:ok. PM them to me then.
just make sure u r for real. because the part about u saying u aren't apathetic, just that u want action? right from the start, what u said shows pure apahty:
i rather close my eyes and forget about the occurence of such an event than to look at it .... becos we cant change anything. if lessons can be learnt, we're not the ones learning it anyway...
I'll sign for you, + give u a copy of the front of my NRIC. -
I'm with Heng@. For something like this to happen, there are sure to be tell-tale signs (soil settlement, severe cracks on adjacent buildings etc) way beforehand. These signs may have even appear way before the morning of tt particular day. Yes, accidents like this can happen without warning signs. BUt i tink for tt to happen, it muz be triggered off by something tt is really massive, like earthquake, explosion, typhoon, acts of terror etc. With the absence of these massive factors, the retaining wall can onli fail after showing tell-tale signs. With that, i believe LTA knew something wasnt rite way before and it was their neglience to allow works to procede and Nicoll Highway to function while remedies were carried out.
ANd the incident about the LTA engineer whu commited suicide after killing his son. I believe yesterdaes Sin Ming Daily (wan3 bao4) reported on it and in fact did an interview with the dead LTA engineer's wife. If i'm not wrong, her husband had actually wanted a transfer frm the nicoll highway site but his request was rejected. He had asked for a transfer becos he felt tt his job was too dangerous. Thus, when his request was rejected, he felt depressed and this led to his suicide.
Above info based on my own memory....correct mi if i'm wrong.. -
The weather was scorching hot and dry before tt fateful day; perhaps LTA had made an assumption tt as long as it isnt raining, the force acting against the retaining wall will be at the minimum and had thus allow works to continue while remedies were introduce to strengthen the already faltering wall. Worst, LTA may have even kept this fact a secret from the workers in a bid to prevent works from falling behind schedule. LTA might have hope tt the wall will be strenghtened successfully and no one will ever noe that it came close to failing.
And after the completion of this CCL, LTA can then boast abt this and how they had overcame the problem.
What i am trying to say is basically LTA is trying to be tough but have failed, badly. -
okok.. none of us want this to happened, still it happened..
don't brood over it ok?
this is meant for discussion.. so please don't quarrel over this matter
all mean well.. nelstar and heng@, both of you have your points, so don't quarrel liow hor..
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heng is taking it personnal. I'll purposely make him go write up to the management and I'll give him my signature + copy of NRIC. At least he's better than those people screaming about NKF previously.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:okok.. none of us want this to happened, still it happened..
don't brood over it ok?
this is meant for discussion.. so please don't quarrel over this matter
all mean well.. nelstar and heng@, both of you have your points, so don't quarrel liow hor..
at least he's taking a step forward. That's the right spirit I want to see in Singaporeans. Not some NATO singing. we got enough sitters in our older generations complaining about this and that but no one to put themselves forward... -
HENG AHHHHH HENG AHHHHHHHHHHH why you go offline when I just reached home????
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heng, your photo with Nelstar?
I scare you become the 2nd Mr Cortez.
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Heng is Ah Ma's Tudi... chop all the pervert like Cortez 1...Originally posted by Icemoon:heng, your photo with Nelstar?
I scare you become the 2nd Mr Cortez.
+ I didn't reveal Cortez's picture even though he was a jerk.
Cortez let ah ma reveal 1. -
Oh, thanks for the clarification.
So is Heng gonna post his letter online? So people can decide whether to sign it. -
lol.. i see i see
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Yes, probably they knew the site was a bit unstable long ago... but the fact is that no one... not even the best engineer can predict such a major failure to occur at the site... the obvious warnings only occur some time before the collapse... even then, i dun think anyone expects it to be so bad...Originally posted by HENG@:now these are very advanced warning signs. how come LTA keeps insisting that the only warnings they would have had would be about 10 to 15 mins b4 the actual event happening?
And here is one more piece of very damning evidence.
The construction of the MRT tunnels uses a method of injecting cement called grouting.
Grouting, does not require cement mixer trucks(the ones with the rotating drum) on the surface.
So... we all know one such truck fell in. WHY was it even there? opinion from a professional engineer, who works in the ISO QA sector, and who has done worksite and shipyard safety inspections for many years, told me, that cement mixer was there, PRECISELY to reinforce and stablise the structure. WHY would that be done? BECAUSE LTA ALREADY has warnings that the site is unstable. The fact that the cement mixer is there, puts paid to LTA's lie that they would only have had any warnings 10 - 15 mins. The truth is, they have had warnings for quite some time already. But instead of a complete halt in the work, they choose to continue even while they tried to remedy the problem.
So many warning signs, so man damning evidence. Come on LTA... lets stop the cover ups... only when the truth is heard, that lessons may be learnt.
maybe u're correct that the cement mixer was there to reinforce and stablise the structure. but that's just logical rite? if u dun try to stabilise it then wat do u think they shd do? just evacuate the site and wait for it to collapse without doing anything? they won't even have a single thought that the whole thing will give wayin the first place! let me emphasize again that no one can predict the whole structure to fail... engineers are not gods...
i like say that LTA is not at fault... but it's just that this whole thing really caught everyone by surprise... -
Thats one brave foreman...Originally posted by HENG@:the workers were told to leave stop work after a foreman heard sounds and declared the area dangerous.
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U from LTA?Originally posted by UandMe:Yes, probably they knew the site was a bit unstable long ago... but the fact is that no one... not even the best engineer can predict such a major failure to occur at the site... the obvious warnings only occur some time before the collapse... even then, i dun think anyone expects it to be so bad...
maybe u're correct that the cement mixer was there to reinforce and stablise the structure. but that's just logical rite? if u dun try to stabilise it then wat do u think they shd do? just evacuate the site and wait for it to collapse without doing anything? they won't even have a single thought that the whole thing will give wayin the first place! let me emphasize again that no one can predict the whole structure to fail... engineers are not gods...
i like say that LTA is not at fault... but it's just that this whole thing really caught everyone by surprise...
Time too important that you can take things easy? -
Apathy no doubt, but we cannot think of every single thing as a conspiracy.
No Government on this Earth will ever release everything. Honestly, you will get better results just killing yourself if you want that. Thats the world for you, no matter how sad it might be.
HENG@ mentioned that LTA has a cement mixer at location when the incident happened, if going by what you say, then LTA made the right choice by responding to an emergency, nothing wrong there. No one can say that they do not have plans to close off the highway due to the threat, but perhaps the accident happened too fast.
On the other thread there was a mention about a cover-up of cars being trapped in the collapse. The blogger just doesn't seem to be using his common sense, please read my reply in that thread to see another conspiracy theory killed.
Once again, we cannot expect everything to be known, and made known. Accidents happen. Lets not make everything a conspiracy and arrow our Government. -
how i know u go home?Originally posted by Nelstar:HENG AHHHHH HENG AHHHHHHHHHHH why you go offline when I just reached home????
i lagi wait n wait then u no come i go play computer game loh. -
again i want to say that NO ONE expects such a major thing to happen... they probably did not take it easy and that's why tried to remedy the problem at that time...Originally posted by Nelstar:U from LTA?
Time too important that you can take things easy?
I'm not from LTA of course, even if i'm from LTA... why the hell shd i speak for them, u think they'll appreciate it and give me a pay rise or best employee award? -
Does anyone knows if Singapore Technologies is anyway involve in this project?
It will be interesting to know. -
wah... really?Originally posted by Nelstar:Heng is Ah Ma's Tudi... chop all the pervert like Cortez 1...
+ I didn't reveal Cortez's picture even though he was a jerk.
Cortez let ah ma reveal 1.
that one really kotex? -
hannor... so can continue work when area unsafe? wad kind of logic...Originally posted by Nelstar:U from LTA?
Time too important that you can take things easy? -
i think... IF as early back as when the LTA engineer who committed suicide, LTA knew that there is some danger, then work should have been stopped long ago and the problem rectified b4 any construction work continues... it seems what they did was try to rectify AND work at the same time, which is not acceptable, because to do so, u are working under unsafe conditions.Originally posted by EXCO:Apathy no doubt, but we cannot think of every single thing as a conspiracy.
No Government on this Earth will ever release everything. Honestly, you will get better results just killing yourself if you want that. Thats the world for you, no matter how sad it might be.
HENG@ mentioned that LTA has a cement mixer at location when the incident happened, if going by what you say, then LTA made the right choice by responding to an emergency, nothing wrong there. No one can say that they do not have plans to close off the highway due to the threat, but perhaps the accident happened too fast.
On the other thread there was a mention about a cover-up of cars being trapped in the collapse. The blogger just doesn't seem to be using his common sense, please read my reply in that thread to see another conspiracy theory killed.
Once again, we cannot expect everything to be known, and made known. Accidents happen. Lets not make everything a conspiracy and arrow our Government.
While that blogger seems rather rubbishy, and I did say so that he dun seem to be the most credible source, what we have here now, is an indication that LTA knew something was not right, YET choose to continue work. Whether they tried to remedy the problem or not, is not actually relevant. the cement mixer is noted here as an evidence that they know something wrong, and not that they had no warning like they claimed. The main issue here, is that they HAD ample warning, and choose to continue work at an unsafe site. -
i think in this case, the biggest factor is LTA's desire to stay on schedule at all costs, even at the cost of compromising safety.Originally posted by BonJovi:The weather was scorching hot and dry before tt fateful day; perhaps LTA had made an assumption tt as long as it isnt raining, the force acting against the retaining wall will be at the minimum and had thus allow works to continue while remedies were introduce to strengthen the already faltering wall. Worst, LTA may have even kept this fact a secret from the workers in a bid to prevent works from falling behind schedule. LTA might have hope tt the wall will be strenghtened successfully and no one will ever noe that it came close to failing.
And after the completion of this CCL, LTA can then boast abt this and how they had overcame the problem.
What i am trying to say is basically LTA is trying to be tough but have failed, badly. -
luckily i not old.Originally posted by Nelstar:heng is taking it personnal. I'll purposely make him go write up to the management and I'll give him my signature + copy of NRIC. At least he's better than those people screaming about NKF previously.
at least he's taking a step forward. That's the right spirit I want to see in Singaporeans. Not some NATO singing. we got enough sitters in our older generations complaining about this and that but no one to put themselves forward...
oh Shit a lot of ppl will kill me when they read this. -
no i wun post it here.Originally posted by Icemoon:Oh, thanks for the clarification.
So is Heng gonna post his letter online? So people can decide whether to sign it.
its up to anyone who feels strongly on this issue to decide to sign or not.
give me some time to write it though. darn. another letter to ST forums got rejected. -
yeah... and using brains too.Originally posted by Xcert:Thats one brave foreman... -
when u know your worksite is unsafe, and u continue work even b4 u have remedied the problem... that is taking it too easy.Originally posted by UandMe:again i want to say that NO ONE expects such a major thing to happen... they probably did not take it easy and that's why tried to remedy the problem at that time...
I'm not from LTA of course, even if i'm from LTA... why the hell shd i speak for them, u think they'll appreciate it and give me a pay rise or best employee award?