Ridiculous HDB Prices
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
if you cannot loan, rent lah, afterall, singapore peoples work long hours, house is just for sleeping and cook maggie mee, so why need to buy. In some fast pace city, people are renting and living in cages or tubes just to sleep, wait up, share a common toilet and go to work till around midnight.
On the contrary, taking a loan of $130,000, to pay for a 230,000 flat, in 10 years time, the flat would had gone up to $400,000++, sell it off, pay off all the loan, and you still get perhap a $100,000 profit, rent a room and live happily everafter, $100,000 leh, some people work until die also dun have...so, invest now!
Your logic is sound, but only on paper.
-
Originally posted by ditzy:
Your logic is sound, but only on paper.
every thing start from a piece of paper. shooooo...the cat away -
Only stupid people think that prices will hold, the rental prices will remain fix for 20-30 years into the future.
-
Singapore practices a brand of economics that is not taught in schools.
Property prices can never fall.
Ever.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
every thing start from a piece of paper. shooooo...the cat away
look whose talking.....!!!Why don't you read more....
-
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
yeah every 5 yr 1 recession....and on top of the 30 yrs loan you have to consider the following....1) retirement fund
2) medical and life insurance
3) if you have kids considered the kids' education.
I sometime wonder if Singaporean asked enough questions?
1) Is my income going to continue to growth?
2) am i going to stay employed?
3) what happen there is an economics downturn when i need to sell my flat?
This is our destiny. We are going to become high cost high living Tokyo. It is fate. If still want to complain, why don't you go to Geylang to release tension? -
So will prices hold or decrease after all the recent measures?
Or will the continued importing of more people into the country drive HDB prices straight up to 1 million dollars?
How to reconcile "cheaper better faster" to 1 million dollar HDB flats?
How?
-
Originally posted by charlize:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/09/hdb-flats-sporeans-come-first/
So sad.
One Singaporean trying to buy a HDB flat to stay in with his mum but is unable to.
Haiz.
My bad.
The price of 3 room HDB (2 bedroom) is now $250,000 on average.
If you take 80% of loan which is $200,000, with an interest rate of 3%, your yearly interest charges would be $6,000.
If he pays $500 a month for a year, should be able to cover the interest charges but the loan will never be repaid ever.
-
The current internet chatter is now on the issue of single Singaporeans not being able to buy a resale flat while single PRs under the age of 35 can with their siblings.
Looks like the authorities may need to look into this HDB policy.
More changes on the way?
-
I don't understand why most singaporeans are so easily upset.
Those HDB flats with high prices are due to their prime locations and good features, like one in Marine Parade with sea view on a high storey which was bought several months ago as reported in newspapers.
Prices of flats in ulu locations, below 6th storeys and with some obstructed views are still affordable, I see like $150K to $200K.
Learn to think deep.
-
Pls note that the following post has since been superseded by 'How to correct HDB flat prices by 20% for now.'- viewable below/ at [link]
Originally posted by Incidental Singaporean:Jul 25, 2010
'Imbalance' in resale HDB
By Melissa Kok
THERE is an 'imbalance' in the HDB resale market and it may take around a year or so before prices of resale flats will stabilise.
These comments were made by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan on Sunday, who was addressing concerns about the prices of HDB resale flats, which have been consistently rising since 2008.
Speaking on the sidelines of a community event in Tampines, Mr Mah attributed the surge to strong economic growth and increased demand from first-time buyers and those looking to upgrade to bigger flats.
'I think at this point in time, there's still an imbalance. I hope that with HDB pushing out a record number of flats this year, this imbalance will be redressed over the medium-term... I would expect in another year or so we should be able to stabilise everything,' Mr Mah said.
...SG Foreigner Public Housing Rental Levy (FPHRL): Please return HDB to ALL Singaporeans now.
"HDB plans and develops public housing towns that provide Singaporeans with quality homes and living environments."
At a time when the nation's birth rates are being stymied by the lack of affordable public housing, how can foreigner demand be prevented from skewing HDB flat prices?
How about a more egalitarian way of distributing public housing which adopts a more stable and progressive approach towards the provision of public housing in Singapore?
The following suggestions return HDB to its original mission of "Providing Affordable, Quality Homes" to Singaporeans and PRs:- Owner occupancy ought to be promoted, as such, ALL HDB should thus for the consideration of property tax, be considered a 'primary abode' and thus be charged property tax at the usual discounted owner-occupied rate of 4%. Any OTHER residential property owned by a HDB flat owner(s) shall be for the purposes of taxation, be charged the higher non-owner-occupied rate of 10%.
- As 'subsidised' public housing is a limited commodity, no owners(s) should possess a 'subsidised' public property larger than the owners(s) maximal needs, defined as [800sq FT + X (300sqFT)], where X is the number of registered SC/PR owners of such a flat. i.e. a couple can own up to a maximum of [800 + 2(300)]= 1400sqFT sized HDB unit. - this is so that no SC/PR consumes in excess of his equitable share of 'subsidised' public property- in a state where land is limited and as a result of new PRs, young SC/PR couples now postpone marriage due to lack of affordable public housing; and so that large 'granny' units remain available to multi-tier families and not the fiefdom of landlords or other suspect use. {[800 + 2(300)] is a rough guideline, the actual numbers may be adjusted as appropriate.} This new guideline would give married couples (and those with larger families) an upper hand over smaller families and singles by ensuring that 'subsidised' public housing is optimally utilized. A public housing unit too big for the number of registered occupants is given between 6 months to 2 yrs, as circumstances require, to be disposed of- unless granted an exception as a case by case might requisite.
- Should the owner of the HDB want to rent out the flat or rooms, then the tenant(s) should preferably be SC/PR, however where this isn't the case, then foreigners may rent the HDB unit subject to a govt levy of 20%rental rate OR S$80/pax/month, whichever the greater, all of which subject to usual HDB crowd control rules. Proper registration with HDB about the details of this arrangement are necessary, fines and confiscations of property may be imposed for offenders.
- The a/m policies would make HDB's job of planning for population expansion easier and ensure efficient utilization of HDB apartments and that only SC/PR remain the primary users of public housing in Singapore. Singaporeans would always remain first class in their own country and foreigners wishing to enjoy the safe and secure environment here would have to contribute accordingly.
Minister Mah's new rules are NOT equitable as they are clumsy, somewhat unenforceable and serves little to clear old baggage- that of foreigners renting cheap 'subsidised' public housing and thus driving HDB prices at the expense of citizens who now have problems finding affordable housing for themselves, thus resulting in the postponement of marriage and in consequence, a dearth of babies in Singapore.
It is recently reported that "24,000 flat owners - own both private property and HDB flats." - how many of these flats are being rented out to foreigners to the deprivation of young SC couples? How many large HDB flats are being monopolized by individual owners for personal use or rental returns?
Would a HDB price correction of 20% occur now that rental returns from foreign lessees are taxed at 20%?
The MND must quickly implement the foreigner public housing levy as described above to level the playing field between SC, PR and foreigner ownership and use of 'subsidised' public housing programmes.
May all citizens in this world feel at home in their countries of origin.
May the Singapore citizen enjoy the privileges of citizenship, financial status notwithstanding.
May all Singaporeans feel equal in their own home country.
Majulah Singapura, I love Singapore.
Comments/ Responses?
Rgds
B.C.
PS:
Please scrap the stupid restriction on pte property owners buying HDB (within their entitlement-Pt2) as refered to in 'Don't deny investors a choice' and the silly 'no other property' rule (abroad inclusive) because it's 'over-consumption' and the 'foreigner demand' that pushes up HDB prices. The former is regulated by ownership entitlement restrictions, the latter by 'foreigner public housing rental levies'(FPHRL) and not airy fairy policies please.
References:
- 'About Us> Our Role> Providing Affordable, Quality Homes': "HDB plans and develops public housing towns that provide Singaporeans with quality homes and living environments. " [HDB InfoWeb]
- 'Housing Prices affect Birth Rates as well... !!!': "The objective of HDB flat was originally meant to provide families a rooftop at a reasonable low cost. It has diverted so largely from its original objective in late years and this issue had affected many young couples especially local Singaporeans. I really strongly hope that the government would take measures to curb all these rising prices. " [REACH 16Sept2010]
- 'Not penalising private home owners': "About 3 per cent of HDB flat owners - or 24,000 flat owners - own both private property and HDB flats." [TDY 16Sept2010]
- 'YPAP leader and new citizen Sinha Shekhar complains about low rent of his resale HDB flat': "Mr Sinha also revealed that he owns a private property, implying that he bought the resale HDB flat NOT for staying but for renting and making money." [TR22June2010]
- 'Don't deny investors a choice': "Over the years, this "sandwiched" class of private property owners worked hard to pay for their homes with the intention to move to an HDB flat during retirement. The private property could then be rented out to provide a stream of retirement income. The new requirement has effectively killed the hopes of many such people." [ST 1Sept2010] -
Originally posted by cyberr1981:
I don't understand why most singaporeans are so easily upset.
Those HDB flats with high prices are due to their prime locations and good features, like one in Marine Parade with sea view on a high storey which was bought several months ago as reported in newspapers.
Prices of flats in ulu locations, below 6th storeys and with some obstructed views are still affordable, I see like $150K to $200K.
Learn to think deep.
$150,000?
Where where?
CCK Cemetery or Pedra Branca?
-
Originally posted by charlize:
The current internet chatter is now on the issue of single Singaporeans not being able to buy a resale flat while single PRs under the age of 35 can with their siblings.
Looks like the authorities may need to look into this HDB policy.
More changes on the way?
Depends on how much they value these 35 y.o. singles vote this coming election.
If it's just a small minority, doubt they would come up with any policy to help.
-
depend on what, it is either you buy if you can afford it or rent if you think that is more worthy. Afterall, govt kept their promise to give everyone a roof on top of their head.
-
Roof on top of your head???
That is going to be a pain in the neck.
-
Better than your ass, aint it?
-
Originally posted by bic_cherry:
SG Foreigner Public Housing Rental Levy (FPHRL): Please return HDB to ALL Singaporeans now.
"HDB plans and develops public housing towns that provide Singaporeans with quality homes and living environments."...The following is a revised version of the a/m previous post.
How to correct HDB flat prices by 20% for now.
Perhaps in a time of rocketing HDB prices due to the 'dire need' for HDB flats,
Gov should implement the following:- Rationing of HDB flats ownership by floor area, with entitlements proportionate to the number of citizens/PRs owning any particular apartment. My suggested (generous) calc. even in this time of 'dire need' is [800sqFt + X(300)]: where X is the no. of SC/PR owning such a flat (acc. ref below, would still qualify a single owner for most 4rm HDBs, but not 5/ larger which would be for larger groups only).
- Make anyone owning BOTH HDB and Pte property enjoy the owner-occupied property tax rate of 4% on the HDB and have the pte property be annually taxed at 10% REGARDLESS of where the owner actually resides in- so as to keep to the spirit that HDB are actually meant for owner-occupancy. (A dual property owner in disagreement can dispose of his HDB which he is obviously not occupying, to enjoy usual 'owner occupied' discounted property taxes on his condo etc).
- Charge PRs double purchase stamp duty when they purchase a HDB unit (open mkt) to discourage PRs competing for public housing options over pte housing options and limit the number of foreigners awarded PR status given out per annum until the a/m can be properly enforced.
- Impose a Public Housing foreigner
rental levy (PH-FRL): every foreigner (F) (i.e. non citizen(SC)/ PR)
renting a HDB room/ unit shall have to pay a levy of 20% of rental /
$80/pax/mth, whichever the greater to HDB for their enjoyment of
'subsidised' public housing in Singapore. ALL lessees (SC/PR/F) shall be
registered with HDB so no SC/PR can 'rent' a unit whilst owning one
(i.e. profiteer fr secretly re-renting it to the F).
- All foreigners (friends/ relatives) bunking in with a Singaporean for >2 weeks would have to be registered with HDB so as to avoid misunderstanding when HDB officers come round to check.
- Evasion of such levy would entail a a fine, jail or confiscation of the HDB flat. - Charge PRs who own in HDB units higher conservancy fees so as to encourage them to move to pte housing/ become citizens if all the a/m fail.
The a/m 5 pointers are more egalitarian, effective and citizen empowering solutions that I hope the gov (MBT) would consider first, before blaming the low birth rate for his (their) attempt to inflate Singapore economy with more foreigners- there must already be formed a foreigner and PR bubble, otherwise why else the sharp escalation in housing prices, esp that of public housing?
Should Singapore economy be built on bubbles or firm fundamentals?
This the PAP must answer; in the meantime, please ensure that Citizens feel both privileged and secure in their own country- so that citizens can procreate in peace and security- and uphold the vibrancy that we have from young grown to hold dear.
References:
- 'HDB Flat Types & Models': "Did you know that there are different HDB flat types? And within each flat type, there are varying models:" [singaporewatch.org]
- 'Benefits for Singapore Citizens & Permanent Residents': (Subsidies & Schemes: ICA,1May2009) (pdf)
- 'Don't deny investors a choice': "Over the years, this "sandwiched" class of private property owners worked hard to pay for their homes with the intention to move to an HDB flat during retirement. The private property could then be rented out to provide a stream of retirement income. The new requirement has effectively killed the hopes of many such people." [ST 1Sept2010]
- 'THE EFFECT OF HOUSE PRICE ON FERTILITY': YI, J. and ZHANG, J. (2010): EVIDENCE FROM HONG KONG. Economic Inquiry, 48: 635–650. doi: 10.1111/j.1465-7295.2009.00213.x [abstract]: "It is found that a 1% increase in House Price (HP) is significantly related to a 0.45% decrease in total fertility rates (TFRs), which is robust in sensitivity tests with an alternative model specification and alternative measures of TFRs. This implies that high HP inflation can account for about 65% of the fertility decrease in Hong Kong in the past four decades."
- 'Housing Prices affect Birth Rates as well... !!!': "The objective of HDB flat was originally meant to provide families a rooftop at a reasonable low cost. It has diverted so largely from its original objective in late years and this issue had affected many young couples especially local Singaporeans." [REACH 16Sept2010]
- 'YPAP leader and new citizen Sinha Shekhar complains about low rent of his resale HDB flat': "Mr Sinha also revealed that he owns a private property, implying that he bought the resale HDB flat NOT for staying but for renting and making money." [TR22June2010]
- 'Relook eligibility criteria for renting out HDB flats': "PRICES of HDB resale flats have been high for some time and there are no clear signs of them falling, despite the poor economy.
One reason for these high prices is that HDB flats are rented out." [ST 12Apr2009]
- 'HDB resale prices hit record high again rising by 4.1% in Q2': "DB resale flat prices have hit record highs again. Prices rose by 4.1 per cent in the second quarter of 2010 compared with the previous quarter. This makes it the fifth straight quarter of increase. " [CNA, 23July2010].
- 'PRICE INDEX OF HDB RESALE FLATS': Resale Price Index from 1st Quarter 1990 to 2nd Quarter 2010 [HDB InfoWeb] (pdf chart) -
I think the root source of most of the probems currently facing Singapore is the importing of too many people into the country over such a short period of time.
Solve that issue and most of the current problems would be corrected.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
I think the root source of most of the probems currently facing Singapore is the importing of too many people into the country over such a short period of time.
Solve that issue and most of the current problems would be corrected.
The whole world knows the garbmen cock up, invite so many people to come in, but never planned to supply more housing, more hospital beds, or increase MRT and buses.
Now election, they sure kena jia lat jia lat.
-
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
The whole world knows the garbmen cock up, invite so many people to come in, but never planned to supply more housing, more hospital beds, or increase MRT and buses.
Now election, they sure kena jia lat jia lat.
Nonsense.
They will make sure those newly inducted citizens over the past few years will swing the support back to the ruling party.
A clean sweep of 84 seats.
Muahahaha.
-
Originally posted by VivId CrItiQuE:
Why are there so many s-u-c-kers out there paying sky high COVs for HDBs? Where are these s-u-c-kers coming from?
These s-uckers are PAP undercover agents.The purpose of them paying sky high price is to push the price of HDB flats to a new height,so that the PAP government can earn more selling per units of flat that they built.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
Nonsense.
They will make sure those newly inducted citizens over the past few years will swing the support back to the ruling party.
A clean sweep of 84 seats.
Muahahaha.
A clean sweep of 84 seats.
Muahahaha.
you will be a happy man.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
depend on what, it is either you buy if you can afford it or rent if you think that is more worthy. Afterall, govt kept their promise to give everyone a roof on top of their head.
Banks are most happy compay in spore.Cos lots of young couples will be getting housing loans from them.
Banks will want to price to move up and up...
Govt happy, banks happy, pple not happy.