Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
-
actually, to be very honest? I've seen more graffiti on the back of Sg cubicle doors than UK. So i don't think u can say that..Originally posted by snow leopard:you want everyone to report graffitti on toilet doors? that is a serious problem for our authorities to attend to? come to think about it, there is so much less graffiti here (racial or otherwise) compared to those in the western countries, so even when comparing toilets, you can say racism is so much milder here
without definations, how can u even classify what is racism? We need definations or anything can be racism and anything can also not be racism. Perhaps we need to remember that the problem with UK, one which I definately find a problem, is that crime rate is higher, especially violent crime. When within a society, violent crime is more common, so does this become a manifestation not only for racism, but also for sexism, religionism, homophobia, and other discriminatory attitudes.Originally posted by snow leopard:it is robotic to stick to definitions without understanding meaning and context. racism of the kind we commonly think of, that leads to assault and savagery is miles apart from racist attitudes manifested in toilet graffitti. and as far as i can see, interaction within our society is thankfully devoid of the kind of racist savagery you see in the west.
you don't get it. no one's reading from the newspapers. we're speaking from experiences and experiences tell us that that the unfriendly stare you mentioned is virtually non-existent here but are perhaps more prevalent where you are now.
The bottomline is, as long as there are such racist attitudes within people, whether they manifest themselves as cases of violence where u can easily identify a victim and a culprit, or as cases of "mild" action where its hard to identify a victim and culprit, and thus harder to act on, people WILL be affected by it, their quality of life lowered, and hurt will happen. It doesn't matter HOW racism is manifested. As long as it is manifested in some way, it must be treated with the strictest authority.
And that unfriendly stare u are talking about? Its prevalent in Singapore alright. U just need to know where to go. Any non-malay who got stared at by a gang of Malay teens late at night walking along HDB void decks, or non-chinese who got "tiao" by a bunch of chinese ah bengs n lians, can testify to.
Sorry I disagree as well. I do not think the definations are mutually exclusive. They are mutually inclusive. And if u agree that a belief or attitude is racism, then no matter how basic a level u believe it to be, it still counts as racism. Item 2 is not what I normally consider racism. I consider racism as inclusive of both 1 and 2. And I don't tolerate either. I don't see why we should have to tolerate one and not the other. As long as 1 exists, 2 will always be manifested in some severity.Originally posted by snow leopard:i disagwee, you should reinterpret what you are reading. firstly, the explanation racism is divided into 1 and 2. normally that means there are two meanings or two levels to look at it. hence while a belief of racial superiority is indeed racism it exists only at a very basic level. item 2 is what we normally would consider racism, the kind that makes up the 400 figure. so contrary to what you're saying, i think i correctly apply context and meaning to subtle differences in the meaning of the word.
Ok while I agree with u that based on an individual case level, comparing ONE case of wall scribbling to ONE case of assault would make an assault more serious. But if u look at it from a wider social pt of view, an assault is actually easier to crack down on, as there are definative victims and culprits. In the case of scribblings, they are not only more widespread, it is harder to identify AND quantify the number of victims AND culprits, and it is virtually impossible to act on it. In fact because there is virtually no way we can act on the scribblings, they end up foistering more covert racist hatred. I have to wonder why racist hatred simmering quietly under the surface can be said to be any better than racist hatred sporadically bursting into the open. Just like forest fires, what u can see, u can fight. What u can't see, such as underground peat fires, not only u can't fight, it can burst into life at the least expected moment, and cause more damage than anyone ever imagined.Originally posted by snow leopard:even so, by how much do they count? does scribbling on the wall count nearly as much as racial assaults?
I hold the view that be it racist attitudes, or racist actions, both are VERY damaging, and in fact, as a racist attutude is the bedrock of racist actions, we should be wary more of racist attitudes more than racist actions, regardless of what is defined by the dictionary.Originally posted by snow leopard:please lah, the dictionary merely defines words, it does not assign gravity to different meanings of the same word nor is smart enough to apply them in context. so you're quite off the ball on this subject really. -
upbringing, religion, social fabric or education, with regards to actual crime or moral crimes? From young we are taught we cannot fight or hit others. And we are stricter with discipline. Thats what makes a difference, with regards to all violent crime, racially motivated or not. I bet if the people here were stricter with their kids, the number of racial assaults would go down too. But does that mean racism is really lowered? I don't think so. So neither do I think that a lack of racial assaults means there is no racism in sg.Originally posted by snow leopard:no it does not and you're assuming things. tell me it is not due to upbringing, religion, social fabric or even education.
similar level? which level? toilet level? you can flush that argument away coz our toilets are a whole lot cleaner than those of the UK. -
double
-
to this, i have to say read A Singaporean Too's letter again CAREFULLY.Originally posted by snow leopard:racism is much less serious in singapore than you would admit.
u misunderstand him. he is saying that what singaporean chinese experience in western countries is only a fraction of the racism that singaporean minorities experience as a citizen in their own country(Singapore)Originally posted by snow leopard:What they experience there is only the fraction of the racism that minorities experience as a citizen in their own country.
exactly my sentiments, racism isn't serious here compared to elsewhere.
glad u pointed it out. This shows that racism is also existing amongst the minorities. Surely this is not a good thing.Originally posted by snow leopard:1) Malays are lazy; They have no ambition and easily contented; Prone to substance abuse
2) Indians are liars; They are smooth talkers; I'd rather trust a snake than trust an Indian; Indians have one kind of smell and they are very unhygenic.
3) Eurasians are lazy; they are philanderers.
yes, these are familiar stereotypes but i wonder why the writer left out number (4) chinese are money faced. why does silly stereotypes about his own kind cuts into his heart while similar stereotypes about chinese are merely whitewashed? says something about this guy's racial attitudes as well doesn't it?
maybe maybe not. while i do question what he said about hawkers, because i haven't see that happen either, what he said about "Another thing obnoxious about the Chinese Singaporean is their absolute lack of sensitivity toward the minority races. When the conversation is in English, one person will just cut in and start speaking Mandarin so as to deliberately exclude minorities from the conversation." is true, because I have observed this quite a few times before. Of course many times others will remind the offender that there are non-chinese speakers around and remind them to be sensitive and use a common language. This is something that makes me feel heartened about the prospects of improvement of racism within singapore.Originally posted by snow leopard:that's strange, i always make an attempt to say things like berupper or chukop when buying food at malay stalls. does my single non-racist annecdote negate those of the writer's? in other words, does he represent the experiences of every other minority?
yes we can. These are private grieviances, not proper official reports. If they think that they have been subject to racism, why not make a report? Perhaps they have an inkling that they don't actually have a case? I don't know.Originally posted by snow leopard:[/quote]wait a minute, didn't you say earlier that the UK govt encourages reports on racism? so we can't be crying racism too easily can we? easier than facilitated by the UK govt?
Oh incidently I had my 1st slightly "racist" encounter yesterday. I was invited to a karaoke session by some HK people. The whole time it was cantonese songs and they all spoke cantonese except my friend who spoke english to me. How ironic that Chinese people can feel excluded by other Chinese, but I just choose to see it as due to them feeling uncomfortable conversing in English. Of course when you look at it, when even a fellow chinese feels excluded and "cliqued" out, u don't expect the whites to feel all warm and fuzzy about them. Then its easy for them to think that the whites are being racist against them.
To be honest, perhaps the problem in UK is more one of national identity, not racism.
Never underestimate the power of racism. I'm not actually saying its serious. I'm saying we should be concerned about it because its more serious than we think. To put this into perspective, for eg, I will say on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being most serious, Singapore's racism is not serious, meaning lower than 5. Lets say theoratically, its actual rating is 3. Most people in Singapore think its rating is only 1. This is what I mean by more serious than people think. Sure on an absolute scale, it might not be that serious, but it shouldn't be underestimated. And like I said, as long as the bedrock for racist actions exist, we should always be wary. Complacency is always one of the 1st factors leading to downfall.Originally posted by snow leopard:from what was written, i have doubts about this guy's experiences and also wonder about his own racial attitudes. as such i would take it with a pinch of salt. racism is not serious here especially when there are better things to worry about like retrenchments, medical bills, cost of living ... -
Originally posted by NuLife:Frankly, i suspect the real reason why Heng is so biased towards UK
is that gay marriage is legal there.
'She' has probably found a gay angmoh partner there. Haha.
is that what your intelligent brain can come up with? only a proper cunt would say a thing like that.
maybe the reason why i am so biased towards UK is because there are less idiots like u here.
facts? what do you know about facts? 35 for one month in a country of 60 million is a lot ah? Even if u tell me 3500 in a month in a country of 60 million, its still 0.00583%. Even if i give u another x10 factor and assume 35,000 in one month, it still doesn't hit 1%. Maybe its YOUR rotten attitude and tendency to attack others and twist facts that made the people here dislike u. To begin with, all Im arguing is that UK is LESS racist than what u've made it out to be. 2 sides to a coin, what, u're allowed to say its super racist so im not allowed to say its less? If i say its less it must be because im either biased towards ang moh or because gay marriage is legal here? Just listen to yourself. U used facts, I used facts, I don't think I started making things personal with you 1st. U had your facts, I had mine, I refuted yours with mine, u can also refute my facts with your facts. U don't have to keep making personal attacks. Shows how empty and substanceless you and your argument are. The objective was to provide a balanced view, and let whoever was reading the debate decide for themself. I really don't understand, why u have to make things personal? There may be others who end up making things personal with me, what I say to them and them to me, is non of your business. If you don't start making things personal, I don't either. But u know what? YOU STARTED IT 1ST BETWEEN U AND ME. If u have a problem with gay people, leave it for another debate. If u can't debate cleanly about the racism, then don't take part -
if u think u are going to make me shut up with personal insults, you are sorely wrong, regardless of your "real" intentions.Originally posted by NuLife:That is precisely why i did what i did
to make Heng Shut Up once and for all with his constant grandmother long story debate on UK racism which is getting so out of point.
Please stop this side topic endless debate on racism and get back to the thread topic.
If the real intention is misintepretated again, I can't help it either. -
WHY? U WANT TO KNOW WHY? HERE IS WHY. YES ITS BECAUSE ITS MORE OPEN. HOW SO? I CAN PURSUE THE CAREER I WANT, I CAN DO WHAT I LOVE AS A JOB. IS THERE A MOTORSPORT INDUSTRY IN SINGAPORE? NO. ARE THERE UNDERGRAD LEVEL COURSES FOR MOTORSPORT AND AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING? NO. SO YES I AM HERE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO DO AND THAT IS WHAT I WANT AS A CAREER, AND BECAUSE UK IS THE HOME OF INTERNATIONAL MOTORSPORTS, SO IT MAKE SENSE TO TRY FOR A CAREER IN MOTORSPORTS HERE.Originally posted by NuLife:Well, geodeme, what if what i said was true? that Heng like UK becos it is a more 'open' country? thus some emotion-related baising there??
BUT I DID NOT COME HERE THINKING THAT EVERYTHING IS ALL GOOD AND GOLDEN HERE. I CAME HERE APPREHENSIVE ABOUT WHAT IT WILL BE LIKE. I KEEP HEARING HORROR STORIES PEOPLE TOLD ME ABOUT RACISM BEFORE I CAME HERE. BUT THRU MY EXPERIENCE HERE THE PAST 15 MONTHS, I REALISE THAT RACISM IS NOT AS EXTREME AS EVERYONE HAS BEEN EXAGERRATING, OK? SO WHATEVER MY OPINION IS OF RACISM IN UK, IS BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCES HERE. IF LONG LONG AGO U ENCOUNTERED RACISM HERE, THATS YOUR ERA. U CAN'T JUST SIT IN SG AND LOOK FOR RACISM CASES ONLINE AND JUDGE THIS PLACE BASED ON THAT. AND CAN U STOP WITH THE PERSONAL INSULTS AND INSINUATIONS. I'M BLOODY SICK AND TIRED OF THEM, AND OF YOU INSULTING MY HONOR. -
Isn't this debate getting nowhere becos every single countries on this earth got their good and bad. Some courses are not available in singapore is due to the fact that the market is not there. for example, courses like Mining is not suitable in Singapore since singapore got nothing to mine in the first place. And if they are going to offer it in Singapore, it mean the graduate will need to go oversea to work which mean it doesn't help Singapore in term of economic rather then other countries.
Anyway be it good or bad we got our own choice, who want to leave feel free to do so, who want to stay jolly well enjoy it. at the end of the day b4 you draw ur last breathe. just ask urself do you consider urself to be successful? i think that more important then useless argument which clearly in the first place there is no correct answer to it.
racisim or not only lies in the human mentality, it not abt country, race, religion or what simply becos it really up to individual and it totally not right to place all into the same basket just becos of a few bad eggs. -
The ONLY reason I am talking about why I'm in the UK is because some asshole saying things like this:Originally posted by strikefreedom:Isn't this debate getting nowhere becos every single countries on this earth got their good and bad. Some courses are not available in singapore is due to the fact that the market is not there.
Like I said I don't give a damn if he is homophobic but if he wants to bring it into an argument with nothing whatsoever to do with sexuality, then nothing he says carries any credibility.Originally posted by NuLife:Frankly, i suspect the real reason why Heng is so biased towards UK
is that gay marriage is legal there.
'She' has probably found a gay angmoh partner there. Haha.
here are some things that someone said after viewing this thead:
"but his homophobia only goes to that he's innately a very prejudiced person."
"my friend was just deprived of going to cambodia for a project because she's muslim"
"your argument is valid, even in singapore, NUS for that matter, the singapore-chinese students here do not like the PRC-chinese because the PRC-chinese stick to their own groups"
"he says that singaporeans accept PRCs, filipinos and etc. did he hear about the poly student's lashing on PRC students? and has he been to NUS? if he did, he would frequently hear remarks made against PRC"
"and singaporeans accept that filipinos are their maids a.k.a paid slaves. that's derogatory acceptance. if singaporeans treat filipinos as equals, they won't pay them peanuts, give them more constitutional protection and not abuse them."
also when i asked the same person who studies in NUS before she read this thread, if she thought UK was an extremely racist country, she said no. When I told her that someone keeps insisting it is, u know what her instant reaction to that is?
"tell him that there are more cases of racism in singapore"
I don't care if nobody gets beaten up in Singapore due to race. If it rears its ugly head in other forms, it counts, and its bad, and we should do something about it instead of hiding from the truth and saying "no no no its non existant"
And I also don't give a damn if someone wants to raise more personal insults
on others honour. That person has already shown himself to be a proper you-know-what. He can carry on being one for all I care. -
Hmmm, wonder what is all the fuss about racism...have to agree with strike freedom...
I am also leaving sillypore and as I have pointed out to anyone in other forums who have asked me, I left sillypore out of my own free will and I deem it a personal choice. Whoever chooses to say thay I left as the grass is greener or that I am a quitter like the rest is so one-track.
Whatever it is, racism abounds everywhere and we all have to make do with it and focus on more important things in life. Just like there is good and bad in every country, there is also the downside in sillypore that we just have to bear with....
I will still have to work hard in the country I have pledged my allegiance to where there is wide open spaces, cheap cars and houses. Downside is the stupid tax forms are so complicated come tax season...
hmmm...... -
The ONLY reason I am talking about why I'm in the UK is because some asshole saying things like this:
if that asshole you are referring to is me then i got to protest becos, the education system in any countries are targeted to let the ppl that took it will be able to find a job in that country itself and not abt letting them graduate and leave the country to work for the benefit of another country.
if they offer those courses that the ppl got to work in another countries due to the fact that there is no market, then isn't it the same as raising another ppl child which they dun get any benefit out of it? this world is realistic man. no return things, where got any goverment want to do? -
I'm not talking about u. Please look back at my post and see who is quoted below the line about "assholes saying things like that"Originally posted by strikefreedom:if that asshole you are referring to is me then i got to protest becos, the education system in any countries are targeted to let the ppl that took it will be able to find a job in that country itself and not abt letting them graduate and leave the country to work for the benefit of another country.
if they offer those courses that the ppl got to work in another countries due to the fact that there is no market, then isn't it the same as raising another ppl child which they dun get any benefit out of it? this world is realistic man. no return things, where got any goverment want to do?
this is the other thing that scares me. People seem not to read too carefully. Maybe theres a tendency to skim over posts which are lengthy?
and im not saying anything about the lack of courses. what i am lamenting is the lack of encouragement for people to try for their ambitions. -
sorry ah cos it a bit confusing lah, after ur post is another quote follow by ur post so a bit confusing. sorry abt it.Originally posted by HENG@:I'm not talking about u. Please look back at my post and see who is quoted below the line about "assholes saying things like that"
this is the other thing that scares me. People seem not to read too carefully. Maybe theres a tendency to skim over posts which are lengthy?
and im not saying anything about the lack of courses. what i am lamenting is the lack of encouragement for people to try for their ambitions.
-
u saw whats inside the quote? thats what the asshole said. u see why i end up having to talk about my motives for being in UK? Because there is an asshole slandering me and making attacks on my personal honour here. ITs sad isn't it, that there are such people here.Originally posted by strikefreedom:sorry ah cos it a bit confusing lah, after ur post is another quote follow by ur post so a bit confusing. sorry abt it. -
Well it show that why there a few opposition party members get sued until bankrupt cos they are doing the same thing as that guy/gal was doing to you. It just show how ppl can be so tactless when it come to debating.Originally posted by HENG@:u saw whats inside the quote? thats what the asshole said. u see why i end up having to talk about my motives for being in UK? Because there is an asshole slandering me and making attacks on my personal honour here. ITs sad isn't it, that there are such people here.
That why the ruling party is smart to use law against this type of ppl as accusation, flaming and insulting is as good as giving the opponent a bullet to shoot them in the head.
PS: Smart ppl uses law to their advantage while brainless ppl will put themselves in a position for the smart ppl to strike them off once and for all. -
my fault. pls carry on.Originally posted by snow leopard:in any case, it is still wrong to hurl personal insults. if we can't avoid retaliating to insults, we should at least try not to start them.
this side topic is certainly an unecessary diversion. but i hope i'm entitled to my replies. -
obviously not everyone buy your endless reasonings on racism...Originally posted by HENG:
and i even read some 'toilet flushings' comments of your illogical arguments...
which lead me to find some illogical biasing on your side.
dun make me laugh with ur endless illogical argument on percentage numbers...
few people, other than snow leopard, have enough patience to reason out with you..
some may agree with you...but to me and others..almost every debate will often end up wif
you wanting to win without substantial logical reasonings...and you calling people names and insulting...some of us had already long conluded that logical debat wif you is a waste of time.
...So tell me, whats the point of reasoning wif u?
you just got to accept the fact that, no matter how much you write...not everyone agrees with your some of view. and for 'some'...you only end up being a crown outta yourself...
a few lines of disagreements/comments and u often end up flaring like a wildbo**...
polluting the thread with all ur nonsensical, name calling, grumblings and insults...
...you just showed your true self again and again...
there is no need for make up "non-existent un-posted quotes" to win supporters...if you can't get everyone to agree with u here..
like they said..."you get what you give"
and frankly, few in this forum can beat you in "unreserved insults and name calling" behavoir.
im not prejudiced against thinking and well-behaving forumites, be it gay or straight...
you just got to accept the fact that you had insulted too many people in this forum and made a name for yourself..
some are giving you more leeway just becos you are not 'straight thinking' person.People seem not to read too carefully. Maybe theres a tendency to skim over posts which are lengthy?
exactly. people are not interested in your lengthy post abt racism.
you shld just think more and write less.
better still, stop this racism debate. frankly, it ain't going anywhere. -
hi strike freedom...i dun think theres a need to dig out comments and all that for you like heng...you just need to read around the forums and see how Heng had been insulting others for yourself...if u have the time...Originally posted by strikefreedom:
we dun wish such petty grievance to carry on nevetheless.
i have fault myself
cheers -
There no need to dig out the forum i know and i have seen those who did it before. it meant for all as well as a reminder for myself regarding flamming, accusing, insulting etc on another person when come to a debate in this forum or in anywhere.Originally posted by NuLife:hi strike freedom...i dun think theres a need to dig out comments and all that for you like heng...you just need to read around the forums and see how Heng had been insulting others for yourself...if u have the time...
we dun wish such petty grievance to carry on nevetheless.
i have fault myself
cheers
Also two wrongs doesn't made one rite, it only make matter worst isn't it?
-
Originally posted by snow leopard:
i feel, $$ is far from the only reason nowadays.
there are ways actually. when people feel more secure about their jobs or believe they can afford to give the best for their children, they would have kids. in the end, its still a money issue. you can import instant citizens but these highly mobile citizens come and go very easily. once they've made enough money they would leave. i have an indian coursemate who is also a PR. he has built his own bungalow at home and is planning to go back soon. he says that salaries back home are now almost on par with salaries in singapore and to think he's paid well above our national average. the agu soccer player made a bloody fool of all of us. that's what you get when you use $ to buy imports - $ faced imports who have no second thoughts about leaving.
Modernization had also meant many have greater expectations of their partners and the std they want to provide for their kids.
Many end up being singles or childless by chioce nowadays.
And sometimes, these the really more well-off ones.
Thou i agree $$ plays an increasing impt role now.
because a land is rich and provides much food, it therefore supports a large population. here we are doing the reverse, we grow a large population in the hope that more hands would reap more from the land. that is so wrong. as a city succeeds, it grows, not the other way round. a bigger population may mean a bigger market but no matter how we grow our market, it will never compare with those of china's or america's. today's globalised world means it is easier to go where the markets are then to try and create markets out of nothing.
ya. the wars...
i beg to differ, the last century saw the western countries embroiled in two world wars, so these weren't peaceful times for them either. but i do agwee they had a good headstart and its hard to catch up.
but well sg were not even independent then.
the infrastructure and system were not there.
a example for comparison.. US Newyork then already had the state empire building in "which year was that"??? when sg were still a kampong island..
the differences were just too great.
agree. The main pt of these examples was on opportunity and the right time and place, to start a new business.
but Philips could never grow out of fluoresent lights and lost terribly against Matsu@&$!a in the war for VCRs. now that oil prices are going sky high and energy conservation is becoming important, fluorescent lights may give way to LED lights. what then for Philips?
but germany wasn't the only country exposed to steam engines and planes. what about the country that invented steam engines? why wasn't great britain as successful as germany in heavy industry? opportunity isn't the only thing, character of a nation and its people matters more.
but Motorola and IBM were already giants before intel came along. surely it was more than just being there that led Intel to succeed where Motorola and IBM have failed?
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were at a place and time when microprocessors were being introduced to the world.
so too were Word Perfect and Novell. yes bill and steve were at the right place and time but they were also the right persons.
nokia did not seize the GSM opportunity, it created it. conditions in finland were just right for mobile telephony to take root.
you can mention Nestle and ABB. all of europe is by and large expensive (from a SGD perspective not from a EURO perspective).
We definitely need the right talented Opportinists to spot these Opportunies at the right time and place.
Like the saying "tian shi ti li ren he"
side topics:
On philips, lighting allows the main business unit to takes off.
It allows a company to stay profitable for periods and to seek other avenues and revenues (eg medical etc). Whether a company can win a new battles
really involves various other factors.
On nokia, im not too sure abt GSM. Cos my understanding is that communnication std like 3G,
its really the consolidated work of scientist all over the world with a world commitee that does the selection and standardization process.
Not too sure abt Gsm time.
Nvtheless, the pt is, nokia spotted the change in communication trend and seize it.
And being in europe where much standardization and research are done, they have good opportunity too.
You are right. But we also have to understand that nothng is perfect. current example being identifying talents and rewarding system.
you can compare with any city, we have the best infrastructures in the world. what we really need is to understand where our real problem is. we have reached a stage where there are so many talents controlled and limited by so few not-so-talented, the entire nation suffers as a consequence.
but are we seeing a real, fundamental change? or are we seeing a change in the soup but not the underlying ingredients? you see, we used to reward smart people, now we are rewarding some other kinds of people. we are still trying to dictate who is more important, who should get more rewards. we're still trying to control society, we're still communist.
yes we are far from perfect indeed.
Is the first world std defined by the west?
only when we stop all these can we truly mature. only when we are free to excel in whatever we choose to endeavour in and not those that happen to be promoted by the govt can we truly evolve into the realm of first world.
my own opinion is we have very different race mixture and values.
We can never be the same as the west even as we progress.
If we follow exactly how the west is run, we may be in trouble.
japan/korea = examples of culture of excellence
culture of excellence i agwee. culture of celebrating dare devils not quite agwee. culture of accepting talents wherever they're from - not really so. using the examples you provided, japan and korea are almost homogeneous in their population makeup so accepting foreign talents certainly isn't their key success factor.
US = culture of accepting talents wherever they're from
can guess what i mean right?
im not too sure. many countries are like tat too or even worse.
we have some kind of indian caste system here where kings will always be kings and beggars always beggars. no matter how hard the beggar works he remains a beggar. under such circumstances who would work hard? so the beggar chooses to leave this unfair society and seek a new life elsewhere where hard work matters more than sucking up.
the rich are getting richer and poors are getting poorer ..and everywhere seemed to be so now.
to be optimistic, spore is alot better than some countries already.
perhaps i shld rephrase..the culture of society and education system.. makes students focus on result instead of knowledge and skills...
what is the determining factor of local graduate quality? local universities? is the quality of local graduates properly assessed? or are we using ferrarris as delivery vans?
why do you think the education sector is undergoing tremendous changes lately??? (apart from the growing $$opportunity in providing courses for foreign students that is)
good point for thought there.
to ride the china, india waves successfully, it is more important to go where the wave is then to try and bring the wave here. hence if riding the china/india rise is the ultimate purpose, then being cosmopolitan here serves little purpose. -
Originally posted by strikefreedom:There no need to dig out the forum i know and i have seen those who did it before. it meant for all as well as a reminder for myself regarding flamming, accusing, insulting etc on another person when come to a debate in this forum or in anywhere.
Also two wrongs doesn't made one rite, it only make matter worst isn't it? 
-
How come mods bor cho kang? Alot of irrelevent posts here (including this). The thread is now unreadable and largely irrelevant.
-
Dont give Heng too hard a time.
Heng has every right to pursue ambition and dreams in another country if our country cannot provide the facilities and services and support.
Especially something like motor sports.
And it hardly seems fair to hurl personal insults at Heng. -
given a choice i also wanna goOriginally posted by gill_hfc:I've recently returned from London after spending 6 years there as a student/working....what surprised me the most was the number of changes in our population within a short period of time....It also saddened me greatly to see that a number of my friends were thinking of leaving singapore or had already migrated to another country for good. On the other side of the fence, in London, I met a ' Part Time Singaporean' who was born in a third world country and had migrated to Singapore and was now living in London....
There are two issues of concern here:
a) Why isn't the singapore government openly addressing the issue of the number of singaporeans leaving Singapore??? we seemed to be more concerned about upgradings and building shelters around our flats then addressing a serious problem of large number of singaporeans migrating....This are the 'Real Sons' of singapore who were born here, went to primary, sec and college here, who even served 2-2.5 years of their national service...this are the same people who are now wanting to leave singapore for good and who are unhappy with the economic circumstances here....why isn't there any open public debate about their concerns and the reasons for them living??? any statistics available on the number of people leaving Singapore yearly?????
b) A number of this so called 'Part Time Singaporeans' who migrate here mainly from third world countries like China and India are using Singapore as a stepping stone to move to other western countires once they have received their Permanent Residency and Citizenship here....In the case of this individual whom i met in london was from china, and had moved to singapore a few years ago...once he had received his Singapore citizenship he applied to migrate to the UK using his Singaporean passport....he also does admit that his chances of migrating to the UK using a chinese passport would have been slim..... Is Singapore being used here as a stepping stone to other western countires by this third world country immigrants to singapore??? what loyalty is there towards singapore among this 'Part Time Singaporeans'??? any statistics available on the number of this new' Part Time Singaporeans' moving on to other countires after receiving their Singapore citizenship????
any comments????
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what happened to the song we use to sing when we were kids...
This is my country
This is my land
This are my people
This are my friends
We are Singaporeans......
It saddens me greatly that I do not see those good old singaporeans around....what i see are new faces that i dont recognise....Do they have a place in the hearts and minds of us true singaporeans???...these new 'Part Time Singaporeans' are just prostituting our singapore passports in foreign countries for their own selfish gains!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what struck me the most since my return to Singapore is that the various communities seem to be gradually drifting apart. There was a time one used to see lots of interaction among the various communities be it the chinese, malays and the indians. But now it seems to be the other way around. there are clear signs of communities drifting apart. I suspect it has greatly to do with the governments immigration policies. In their rush to bring in all this foreign nationals into singapore the government has failed to see the negative social impact on the local population such large number of migrants bring. Lets be honest most of the migrants from china and india come from societys where they've probably never been to school with students from different cultures. i doubt chinese nationals from china have ever had indians or malays living in their towns or cities or even having gone to school with students from different cultures. The same goes for the indians that are moving in from india to singapore. i doubt any of these 'new indians' ever had chinese or malay friends in their neighbourhoods and communities back in india.
so how do we expect these foreign nationals who migrate here and take up our singapore citizenship to integrate overnight into our original vibrant and multicultural community here in singapore??? its taken us an entire generation to bond the various communities together. do we seriously expect these 'New Part Time Singaporeans' to integrate and understand the dynamics of our various communities overnight? -
reason:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=180813
also for the sake of $$, change in lifestyle & environment[/url]