LYK challenged Singaporeans that we can't live without them?
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It also reminds me that u hve more feather on yr head than me!!!Originally posted by Urroh:More hair than you ever had..
It reminds me.. i remember argueing with u before..
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childish..
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1) How to buy the multi-racial argument anymore when they expand it to 6 member GRC? It already destroys the very fundamentals of free election in the first place.Originally posted by Urroh:Do i count as a hardcore supporter??
1) GRC is a multi racial initiative to prevent people from voting blindly against the other races if they complete in Single seats. As some people do vote only for chinese MP, It help to make it more fair. AS other races are smaller in size.
GRC consist of at least one or two other races MP. So its help to vote for them as a group to discrimate against other races. Opposition had also field alot of teams in GRC this time round so it is an non-issue. Must debunk the myth mah..
2) No la.. i never see Chiam See tong or Mr Low got any lawsuits against them as they never say anything wrong. I dun think the opposition are intimidated.. are you intimidated?
3) Erm.. most of the boundaries still exist.. anyway our election department is fair right? IF they are not fair, our government system is flawed..
2) When politicians are threatened with the kind of lawsuits that we have seen so far, and bankrupting them in the process, how are they not being intimidated?
3) The election system drawn up by the ruling party making arbitrary changes is flawed. -
I m a 18 yrs old boy n in NS now!!!of course childish!!!Originally posted by Urroh:childish..
But a man who claimed 2 be still young but didnot know wat r the "S" papers in A level exam r expired stock in our G!!!!
Pls excuse us !!!!
U must be in a doom n gloom situation n deserve to be call it a day now!!!! -
Hummmm..... let's go back to the topic again.
LYK challenged Singaporeans that we can't live without them?
SGrean who really can't live without "them" are those really "working" for them.
working ~ in Singapore it means you are paying you house loan, car loan, utility bill, GST, income tax etc etc... but you dun get much in return. you have transport company making tons of money because of high public transportation cost, lowly paid Singaporean work force.
work because have to and not you like to.
LKY is challenging the masses, not those who had left or is about to leave and those who plan to leave.
If LKY is challenging this group of ppl, it time for him to wake up as this group of ppl had been label as quitter before and what happened after that, ppl are still leaving. They quit not because they can not make it, it MIW can not make it.
some may say that it happening round the world. yes but those 3rd world are leaving for good just like what our forefather did, Chinese leave china, Indian leave india and came to what we today call SINGAPORE.
SG as a developed country where it citizen are leaving for good, giving up it citizenship and become some 2nd class citizen else where. WHY? Why other developed nation citizen are leaving just to work and not giving up the citizenship? We may see few white man staying in SG, some maybe even holding pink IC. but why are we seeing more and more ex-Singaporean staying in AUST, US, UK etc? best part is more Singaporean are moving up North. WHY?
either the system work or you work. simple as that. -
U know we hve a storey in Brunei,bcauz the crown prince cant bath himself that why the king has to be at his side till down!!!Originally posted by Joshua1975:Hummmm..... let's go back to the topic again.
LYK challenged Singaporeans that we can't live without them?
SGrean who really can't live without "them" are those really "working" for them.
working ~ in Singapore it means you are paying you house loan, car loan, utility bill, GST, income tax etc etc... but you dun get much in return. you have transport company making tons of money because of high public transportation cost, lowly paid Singaporean work force.
work because have to and not you like to.
LKY is challenging the masses, not those who had left or is about to leave and those who plan to leave.
If LKY is challenging this group of ppl, it time for him to wake up as this group of ppl had been label as quitter before and what happened after that, ppl are still leaving. They quit not because they can not make it, it MIW can not make it.
some may say that it happening round the world. yes but those 3rd world are leaving for good just like what our forefather did, Chinese leave china, Indian leave india and came to what we today call SINGAPORE.
SG as a developed country where it citizen are leaving for good, giving up it citizenship and become some 2nd class citizen else where. WHY? Why other developed nation citizen are leaving just to work and not giving up the citizenship? We may see few white man staying in SG, some maybe even holding pink IC. but why are we seeing more and more ex-Singaporean staying in AUST, US, UK etc? best part is more Singaporean are moving up North. WHY?
either the system work or you work. simple as that.
How about our Pm?,can he master(ur) bate(Bed) himself instead of asking his pa 4 help!!! -
So where is freakass and harrymushroom? You are the guys that declared we are brats and lousy people, those who are criticising the govt.Originally posted by soul_rage:Where did all the pro-PAP hardcore supporters go?
I am still waiting for a rebuttal on the following:
(1) Paying 5/6 star price for mediocre govt service, and they blame us for depending on them
(2) Double standards in the govt. MPs are part-timers, so taking care of the people is a simple job?
(3) GST 2% increase, then immediately talk about increase their pay. What a fiasco
(4) Good performance? The world goes up, we go up. The world goes down, we go down. That's hardly good performance. A great fund manager is able to generate positive returns in a negative market. I haven't seen that for this new batch of people in the govt yet.
So where are your 'valuable' brains to take on my points? -
Get use to it...Originally posted by soul_rage:So where is freakass and harrymushroom? You are the guys that declared we are brats and lousy people, those who are criticising the govt.
So where are your 'valuable' brains to take on my points? -
Well, you said that you only care about yourself right? Then why bother to write to long posts about PAP? It just shows that you care about what happens to PAP, either you care about yourself and don't care about anything else or you care about what happens to PAP. So which one then?Originally posted by soul_rage:Actually I don't quite understand what is your point. Care to elaborate further?
I see your posts as one-liner 2-liners. Kindly contribute properly if you wish to post.
And I am still waiting for the PAP-supporters to talk about my points raised, since they like to call us stupid and dumb -
Pwned..Originally posted by foomwee88:I m a 18 yrs old boy n in NS now!!!of course childish!!!
But a man who claimed 2 be still young but didnot know wat r the "S" papers in A level exam r expired stock in our G!!!!
Pls excuse us !!!!
U must be in a doom n gloom situation n deserve to be call it a day now!!!!
anyway i never claim if i am a 1 year old kid or a 130 year old ah pek..
Now i know only elites know what are A level and how many papers are inside there..
Pls go back to your National Slavery. -
To people like you, 66% of the population are MIW, 44% are the 'civilians'. Ya, your kind of logic is make sense.Originally posted by Joshua1975:looking at things around in forums. MIW are good at having 2 of their own opposing each other which some how end the discussion abruptly.
A will go around agreed on some and end with a BUT... and later eat back his own words.
B will blindly support MIW even when facts are on the table.
flaming start. topic end. -
6 members also consist of multi-racial group.. aint it is still a multi racial GRC? What is the difference between 5 and 6 GRC member? You still elect for them as a group.. when did it destroy the fundamentals?Originally posted by chiabaliao:1) How to buy the multi-racial argument anymore when they expand it to 6 member GRC? It already destroys the very fundamentals of free election in the first place.
2) When politicians are threatened with the kind of lawsuits that we have seen so far, and bankrupting them in the process, how are they not being intimidated?
3) The election system drawn up by the ruling party making arbitrary changes is flawed.
Are our opposition politicians are afraid? CSJ and Jaya are afraid meh? If they are not even intimidated.. neither should the opposition supporter.
How do you know that the election system is flawed? election system is not dominated by the ruling party. -
Hmm..i have to correct you here, NUS honors is not recognized by the msian gov if you want to go into civil service, but you can still find plenty of companies in the private sector who recognize NUS honors, also depend on what your field of study is.Originally posted by Hamiltonian1125:Then the more u sporean should fight for urselves... In msia, aint we the chinese there more jialat...Study so hard get Nus honors in the end NOT recognise in my own country..But that does not mean the end of my world...I will continue to fight and offer to the society my best efforts. In Msia, the chinese there are really resilient....that is something I feel Singaporeans should also have since many of us even share the same common ancestors. Fight sporean...fight...Show ur fighting spirits !!! -
This is the nature of the forum, if you don't like it, so be it, but you can't get people to shut up. You yourself can shut up, that would be much easier. I also got flamed a couple of times previously, because my views were unpopular and people were biased against me because of that, i talked about the die hard anti-pap before, how they 'attack' those who go against their views...but it's how the forum works, if people themselves change their attitude then you will also see a change in the forum, but if people remain the way they are, things around here will still be the same.Originally posted by soul_rage:actually I agree to that. Stop the flames, and build constructive arguments.
If singaporeans can't even bring their point thru, and resort to mindless flaming, then we are indeed in trouble.
I simply ignore those whom are making 1-liner or 2-liners flaming others, coz that's only what they are capable of.
To the 1-liner, 2-liner flamers, if you have no constructive comments, just shut up. -
Assume that all arguments are true. Here is my question
If you are in power. what would you think the changes could be for Singapore?
Please be mindful that we are an island, restricted to its small economy, does not have a domestics market, subjected to regional politics. limited resources, subjected to social issue. and trying to satisfied general popullation. -
you also have to consider that sometimes, some of these people don't want to argue at such a level of detail and they prefer to just give their views in a short and simple way, i don't think that automatically makes them shallow. Other times, they may get into more detail, but you can't assume all of them are shallow. Maybe there are those who forever in this forum only give one or two liner comments, fine, they may be shallow, but not everyone is. I know you feel frustrated about being flamed, but like i said, this is how the forum works, and it's not right to ask people to shut up, just ignore them and continue writing, that's the best thing to do.Originally posted by soul_rage:my apologies to you. I wasn't referring to you. So don't get offended.
I am just saying, if someone is going to post a 1-liner or 2-liner (like someone in the previous page), then don't do it. Coz there is nothing useful in that, and it only makes that person look shallow. -
Originally posted by foomwee88:It also reminds me that u hve more feather on yr head than me!!!
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So now i put , so is this post shallow or not? -
Originally posted by Joshua1975:looking at things around in forums. MIW are good at having 2 of their own opposing each other which some how end the discussion abruptly.
A will go around agreed on some and end with a BUT... and later eat back his own words.
B will blindly support MIW even when facts are on the table.
flaming start. topic end.
you have done a good job in here. please carry on disgust everyone in here.Originally posted by saffron60:To people like you, 66% of the population are MIW, 44% are the 'civilians'. Ya, your kind of logic is make sense.
what can you do now? cut and paste? go 1 round turn 2 half hitch?
+1 -
The GRC is inherently racial in nature, because it formalises the race discourse and maintains a visible racial card by saying that we need an artificial race balance in each voting district. It was vital in the early years, to ensure that the idea of affirmative racial representation is put into the hearts and minds of the electorate. However, one should ask if we still need artificial race quotas that inadvertantly hinder any chances of a national melting pot.Originally posted by Urroh:6 members also consist of multi-racial group.. aint it is still a multi racial GRC? What is the difference between 5 and 6 GRC member? You still elect for them as a group.. when did it destroy the fundamentals?
Are our opposition politicians are afraid? CSJ and Jaya are afraid meh? If they are not even intimidated.. neither should the opposition supporter.
How do you know that the election system is flawed? election system is not dominated by the ruling party.
This in theory is good, but it hampers free elections through politics of the incumbent and does not act in an affirmative way that allows for fair representation given that the GRCs are seen to be used in a package deal where you throw in a minister or two, and it feeds on the "branding" of the minister to get the electorate's support.
Futhermore, a walkover is likely to happen because the GRC element coupled with strict political funding regulations and the climate of local politics mean that the recruitment of candidates by other political parties is hindered, thus developing a lop-sided field where the number of representatives required per voting district is too large and too costly for the other parties to afford to contest.
It is not as simple as to ask why they do not contest, one has to take into account the entire socio-political climate, structure and numbers of potential candidates who may be deterred by this seemingly rocky playing field. -
I heard of many Sporean buying houses up north n selling their HDB flats.Originally posted by Joshua1975:Hummmm..... let's go back to the topic again.
LYK challenged Singaporeans that we can't live without them?
SGrean who really can't live without "them" are those really "working" for them.
working ~ in Singapore it means you are paying you house loan, car loan, utility bill, GST, income tax etc etc... but you dun get much in return. you have transport company making tons of money because of high public transportation cost, lowly paid Singaporean work force.
work because have to and not you like to.
LKY is challenging the masses, not those who had left or is about to leave and those who plan to leave.
If LKY is challenging this group of ppl, it time for him to wake up as this group of ppl had been label as quitter before and what happened after that, ppl are still leaving. They quit not because they can not make it, it MIW can not make it.
some may say that it happening round the world. yes but those 3rd world are leaving for good just like what our forefather did, Chinese leave china, Indian leave india and came to what we today call SINGAPORE.
SG as a developed country where it citizen are leaving for good, giving up it citizenship and become some 2nd class citizen else where. WHY? Why other developed nation citizen are leaving just to work and not giving up the citizenship? We may see few white man staying in SG, some maybe even holding pink IC. but why are we seeing more and more ex-Singaporean staying in AUST, US, UK etc? best part is more Singaporean are moving up North. WHY?
either the system work or you work. simple as that.
800 Sporean left for other countries each year n this is worrying. -
My apologies, i have been absent for a while.
Originally posted by Freakass:Selecting the government for a country is not as simple as "why should we not give the alternatives their chance?"... This is not like a job where you can try to employ a fresh grad with no experience and if he messes everything up, you fire him like nothing has happened before. The consequences for electing the wrong government is fatal and irreversible. A strong presence of opposition parties is preferable because it will force the ruling government to improve and keep up... However, to elect an opposition party as a new government is a big bad move. What they have is simply empty promises and lack of governing experience. Like I always say, a good movie critic may not make a good movie director.
LetÂ’s forget the last 40 years and review the last 10 for a moment. What achievements have the government produced?
Micropolis turned out to be an expensive tuition fee, Marina Bay re-naming exercise turned out to be another example. WeÂ’ve had relative inflation of approximately 7-15% spanning 10 years but our wages have barely adjusted to match. Transportation costs have gone up and if the recent one is approved (formality), that will be the 3rd increase in 4 years.
Cost of living is skyrocketing and the ruling party seems content to provide a superficial budget to offset the upcoming GST hike, which coincidentally lines up nicely with the next election.
With the country suffering from monetary hikes, our ministers ironically sees fit to up their own salary.
Could a new party with fresh ideas be a ‘big bad move’? Should we simply accept the aging MIW machine as the ONLY alternative?
It is simply not enough to just ‘manage’ the country; there must be value-add. When we were 3rd world and politics of the day were needed, then yes, it was indeed an achievement just to provide housing, a job that puts food on the table and basic infrastructure to develop the country. It’s time to see past history and re-evaluate our needs today.
We need people who are willing to think out of the box, to try new ideas and not just throw money at the problem and hope it vanishes. The party whip ensures the members toe the line; so how is this effective in voicing concerns? Even MPs like Tan Soon Khoon who spoke passionately were taken to task and had the yokes tightened around their necks. Charles Chong was reprimanded for his role in the Buangkok white elephant incident, one of the few who chose to act by crossing the line, but most are too afraid of the consequences.
One can only pretend to have ‘preceived’ opposition in parliament, and using your own party to ‘create’ the opposition is a sham. More alternative voices in parliament is certainly a welcome slate; but so long as the number remains a minority, little can be accomplished.The government has explained time and time and time, over and over and over again the reasons for the GST hike. It's just that you people don't accept the explanations and insist that there is something more behind the screen...
I certainly doubt the explanations Tharman provided because as a politician, he chose to speak on the merits of the GST hike, but avoided other options that could reduce pressure on the peopleÂ’s income and gave a benign excuse that corporate tax was being reviewed to offset the hike.
What alternatives were explored before they decided on the hike? Did he even bother to discuss them?
Most of his time was spending slamming the alternatives, with typical and dismissive ‘do-your-homework’ responses which are becoming the trademark rhetoric.How sure are you about the "perform equally well" part? We can't take chances you know. Let me repeat again. We're talking about the government of a country and not anything else where a trial period is permissible.
You prefer to ‘deal with the devil you know than one who is a stranger’?
We took the plunge with the ruling party once. Are we so insecure that we are afraid to take another one? Which is precisely what we have become – domesticated sheep. If we want to make a difference, then we should dare to choose. -
I wish to add to your points that in justifying the 6 member GRC, they adopted additional reasonings to suit their convenience. It's not even fair election anymore.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The GRC is inherently racial in nature, because it formalises the race discourse and maintains a visible racial card by saying that we need an artificial race balance in each voting district. It was vital in the early years, to ensure that the idea of affirmative racial representation is put into the hearts and minds of the electorate. However, one should ask if we still need artificial race quotas that inadvertantly hinder any chances of a national melting pot.
This in theory is good, but it hampers free elections through politics of the incumbent and does not act in an affirmative way that allows for fair representation given that the GRCs are seen to be used in a package deal where you throw in a minister or two, and it feeds on the "branding" of the minister to get the electorate's support.
Futhermore, a walkover is likely to happen because the GRC element coupled with strict political funding regulations and the climate of local politics mean that the recruitment of candidates by other political parties is hindered, thus developing a lop-sided field where the number of representatives required per voting district is too large and too costly for the other parties to afford to contest.
It is not as simple as to ask why they do not contest, one has to take into account the entire socio-political climate, structure and numbers of potential candidates who may be deterred by this seemingly rocky playing field. -
Talk so much... without us they also cannot survive!
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We are so many and they are so few and yet they can keep on taking our money to buy "shin corps" and pay themselves million dollars salaries and we cannot do anything about it!Originally posted by Slipshade:Talk so much... without us they also cannot survive!