All out to defame our governement
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Sigh.... I actually meant it the other way around... that press freedom may actually be due to their affluence, or maybe a contributor to thier success.Originally posted by january:there are countries that have higher press freedom but their country are not necessary more prosperous or happier.
This inference of this chart should not be : higher press freedom --> prosperity
For more prosperous country, what are the reasons for their prosperity may not be due to press freedom. It may be due to other reasons.
If you study statistics, such data are called correlational data, it does not imply casuality.
And using press freedom as an example of human rights being oppressed, that there is a tendency for the more affluent nations to have higher press freedoms. Never claim that press freedom was the cause of thier affluence.
What I am saying is that economic and social stablity should not be used as reasons to oppress free speech e.g. press freedom. As there are affluent nations who are in the blue zone. -
I actually intended to question you on the 75%, but since JB just occurred 2 violent rape cases, I shall not question further, coz its indeed true that Singapore is so much safer than the other side of the causeway.Originally posted by january:i am not saying that our government is governing the country the right way now. i do not have sufficient enough of governace to know how a country should be governed and what should the country achieve for its people, happiness, money, low crime rate or what?
My stance towards government capability is on 75 % and is based on the fact the singaporean has enough money for food and basic utilities, is able to have savings
some areas of improvement for singapore govt would be to finding ways to make more singaporean wiser and more capable people, finacially knowledgable
and also reducing social ills to a minimum.
assuming that 50 % = neutral
0% = totally oppose govt every policy
Areas of improvement I believe, include the govt being more compassionate and more sincere towards its own people, and not treat their people as money-making /squeezing machines -
Just to humor youOriginally posted by january:i am not saying that our government is governing the country the right way now. i do not have sufficient enough of governace to know how a country should be governed and what should the country achieve for its people, happiness, money, low crime rate or what?
My stance towards government capability is on 75 % and is based on the fact the singaporean has enough money for food and basic utilities, is able to have savings
some areas of improvement for singapore govt would be to finding ways to make more singaporean wiser and more capable people, finacially knowledgable
and also reducing social ills to a minimum.
assuming that 50 % = neutral
0% = totally oppose govt every policy
I'm at 25% -
kindly not avoid this. Since you accuse others of being emotional, have the courage to stand up and say you are wrong, and that you are abusive and emotional.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
When you say we are emotional, aren't you emotional yourself?
You go about sprouting vulgarities at others, and you tell me you are not emotional? Answer this question on your vulgarities and abuse of other people. Don't avoid this accusation anymore (yes, I AM accusing you coz this is a FACT, YOU ABUSE others).
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a) Why are you not complaining when M13 is talking about ejeculating sperms into people's mouth? is it because birds of same feathers are suppose to sratch each other's back?
b) If you are referring to the language use against some di.ck headed, white pri.ck sucker from pussieland, who always call us sillyporeans and sinkapore, I think he deserve it, because he has no respect for the people living in this country. Period!!
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Who started all the abuse? M13 reacted becoz you abused people in the 1st place. The root cause was you. You went ard abusing everyone. Read my post on the vampire hunter. You want to kill and bash everyone, as long as they are on the other side of the fence (in relation to you), and you don't care whether they are having good or bad intentions.
For (b), I don't mind you calling him that, coz I don't think it is right to call Singapore Sillypore as well. Its not the country that is screwed up, its the way it is run that is causing unhappiness. -
I am definitely less than 50%.Originally posted by Jontst78:Just to humor you I'm at 25%
most of what's in Singapore today is attributed to the 1st generation leaders, and not to this current bunch of hot air leaders. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
What I read, in context, basically is that PAP shouldn't be have done what they did, from a moral standpoint. Using taxpayers money to sway votes.
This is his orginal post, does it mean morally to you?
2) This is where you are so wrong. The Govt will NEVER be the PAP. The only reason why we are caught in this stupid situation is that the PAP is running the entire govt (almost), so people tend to say Govt = PAP. [b]For instance, during elections, the PAP CANNOT use HDB upgrading as a carrot because that is taxpayers' money for upgrading. This belongs to the GOVT, NOT the PAP, so the party cannot use the taxpayer's money as their war chest. Every person who pays taxes are entitled to equal rights for upgrading. [/b][/b]
Edit: As to the part about the Govt never being the PAP, it will be an endless debate about definitions. -
Thanks Jontst78Originally posted by Jontst78:What I read, in context, basically is that PAP shouldn't be have done what they did, from a moral standpoint. Using taxpayers money to sway votes.
Gazelle, is it only you whom have a problem with your interpretation, and only you who has a lack of intuition?
Coz it will explain why there are so much misunderstandings about you then if that's the case, coz you don't use your intuition to understand other people, and you then proceed to jump to self-made conclusions. -
I know you are just being kind fo saying that...I can understand...Originally posted by Jontst78:What I read, in context, basically is that PAP shouldn't be have done what they did, from a moral standpoint. Using taxpayers money to sway votes.
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Well ya, I got what he meant, just not the best choice of words, but really no point about nitpicking about choice of words is there?Originally posted by Gazelle:I know you are just being kind fo saying that...I can understand... 
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I am still waiting for you to admit that you are rude and abusive, coz there are FACTS to back that up.Originally posted by Gazelle:I know you are just being kind fo saying that...I can understand...
Or are you such a coward you won't admit it even in the face of overwhelming evidence?
If you are such a coward, then there's no further point in talking to you, coz you won't even admit to your mistakes -
This is not a popularity contest and stop behaving like a kid who have just lost his toy. The fact of the matter is that you know nuts about what you are talking about and have to resort in give long story excuses to defend yourself, which is making you look bloody pathetic.Originally posted by soul_rage:I am still waiting for you to admit that you are rude and abusive, coz there are FACTS to back that up.
Or are you such a coward you won't admit it even in the face of overwhelming evidence?
Are you sure you are from the top income group in singapore? -
Common sense will tell you that you cant use such a statement to proof to others that Government is not PAP and it is contradicting because PAP is infact using government funds to support the election campaign which mean they rule and run the government.Originally posted by Jontst78:Well ya, I got what he meant, just not the best choice of words, but really no point about nitpicking about choice of words is there? -
hahaha, so you are now a cry-baby that claimed all of us bullied you but then beat around the bush when confronted with the FACT that you are rude and offensive.Originally posted by Gazelle:This is not a popularity contest and stop behaving like a kid who have just lost his toy. The fact of the matter is that you know nuts about what you are talking about and have to resort in give long story excuses to defend yourself, which is making you look bloody pathetic.
Are you sure you are from the top income group in singapore?
Think I have enough of your self-righteous and childish antics, and useless arguments that don't even stand scrutiny.
We all feel sad for you, because you are an empty and sorrowful soul that don't understand so many things.
By the way, with Gazelle as a Singaporean, Singapore doesn't need enemies. -
Sigh... its so difficult talking to a toadOriginally posted by Gazelle:Common sense will tell you that you cant use such a statement to proof to others that Government is not PAP and it is contradicting because PAP is infact using government funds to support the election campaign which mean they rule and run the government.
PAP = People's Action Party.
Govt is the body that has the power to make and the authority to enforce rules, and within this body, are 2 members from the opposition parties
So you say PAP = Govt? By virtue of your statement above, you are implying that the 2 members from the opposition party are also PAP members?
Now is that true?
Which part did you not get it?
Is your english really so horrible, that after numerous grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, still don't learn?
This is getting so silly explaining things to a toad in a well. His intelligence is so low, that you have to get to his level to explain things to him -
Who the heck wants to defame anyone in Singapore especially PAP government? Afterwards end up like JB and CSJ .
The TS should be well aware that the million dollar salaries of ministers open them to criticism - GET OVER IT - don't state superfluously that all are out to defame the government. I could think of more meaningful ways to use the money than to pay a minister like some CEO. Seen other countries? Their ministers get paid far lower and get abused in the papers over policies and what's not. So Singaporean ministers should be thankful for a state controlled media . Their followers should stop whinging about people not being grateful. They should be grateful that the ministers receive million dollar salaries.
Who gives a crap - everyone wants to complain - nobody wants to vote against them....so complain what? Complain this complain that but no one even dare to vote them out because they tell the voters the upgrading carrot will be taken away.
Bottom line: No point in complaining when no action has been taken. I got enough and I got the guts to leave labelled as a "quitter". So what? Big F**king deal ....Label me lor ....I don't care because at least I got a life and I got a career and I got a property and I got superannuation which will see me comfortable than some miserable CPF thing. Being told how to think ...how to conform doesn't sit well with me - apathy is not my thing but better to secure my future elsewhere than to be matyr in a country where most (66.6%) are sheep after one pathetic upgrading carrot. -
now I admire your spirit and guts.Originally posted by fymk:Who the heck wants to defame anyone in Singapore especially PAP government? Afterwards end up like JB and CSJ .
The TS should be well aware that the million dollar salaries of ministers open them to criticism - GET OVER IT - don't state superfluously that all are out to defame the government. I could think of more meaningful ways to use the money than to pay a minister like some CEO. Seen other countries? Their ministers get paid far lower and get abused in the papers over policies and what's not. So Singaporean ministers should be thankful for a state controlled media . Their followers should stop whinging about people not being grateful. They should be grateful that the ministers receive million dollar salaries.
Who gives a crap - everyone wants to complain - nobody wants to vote against them....so complain what? Complain this complain that but no one even dare to vote them out because they tell the voters the upgrading carrot will be taken away.
Bottom line: No point in complaining when no action has been taken. I got enough and I got the guts to leave labelled as a "quitter". So what? Big F**king deal ....Label me lor ....I don't care because at least I got a life and I got a career and I got a property and I got superannuation which will see me comfortable than some miserable CPF thing. Being told how to think ...how to conform doesn't sit well with me - apathy is not my thing but better to secure my future elsewhere than to be matyr in a country where most (66.6%) are sheep.
Note that I have nothing against those that emigrate. I am also exploring the opportunities available to me (which Gazelle doesn't have, too cowardly), I just don't like those whom have emigrated to label Singaporeans "Sillyporeans", etc, coz its not everyone who can (or has the guts to, which Gazelle doesn't have) take that step.
Our ancestors left China too coz conditions were too biased against them, and that's how Singapore came into the picture. -
I empathise with those who cannot leave or who are stuck like my own distant relatives.Originally posted by soul_rage:now I admire your spirit and guts.
Note that I have nothing against those that emigrate. I am also exploring the opportunities available to me (which Gazelle doesn't have, too cowardly), I just don't like those whom have emigrated to label Singaporeans "Sillyporeans", etc, coz its not everyone who can (or has the guts to, which Gazelle doesn't have) take that step.
Our ancestors left China too coz conditions were too biased against them, and that's how Singapore came into the picture.
I also label some Singaporeans I met who like to whinge overseas here hypocritical wolves in sheep's clothing - how much better Singapore is and why everywhere else is crap ...then after that ask me how to get PR. If Singapore was so great - why even bother to get PR. Alot of them I notice like to talk alot - but when asked to do it - everything don't dare. Things don't go their way - that country is racist...great huh? Then when they return to Singapore, same song and dance but do nothing about it - then they return to being sheep.
Sillyporeans are those who don't dare or won't want to think for themselves. Those are the people I am fed up with. They think upgrading is everything to get their property up in value - but in actual fact - HDB sell leases of 99 years -it won't benefit their own future generations. -
Yes go on and tell us that PAP is not using government's fund and that protestionism is good for our country and open economy is bad.Originally posted by soul_rage:hahaha, so you are now a cry-baby that claimed all of us bullied you but then beat around the bush when confronted with the FACT that you are rude and offensive.
Think I have enough of your self-righteous and childish antics, and useless arguments that don't even stand scrutiny.
We all feel sad for you, because you are an empty and sorrowful soul that don't understand so many things.
By the way, with Gazelle as a Singaporean, Singapore doesn't need enemies.
Is that what a so called Singapore top earners is capable of? damn.. if this is true singapore is in real deep trouble. -
Everybody is born different and everybody has different priorities in life. Some people might find the Australia weather is good and society is liberal, while some prefer Singapore because it is safe, clean and vibrant.Originally posted by fymk:I empathise with those who cannot leave or who are stuck like my own distant relatives.
I also label some Singaporeans I met who like to whinge overseas here hypocritical wolves in sheep's clothing - how much better Singapore is and why everywhere else is crap ...then after that ask me how to get PR. If Singapore was so great - why even bother to get PR. Alot of them I notice like to talk alot - but when asked to do it - everything don't dare. Things don't go their way - that country is racist...great huh? Then when they return to Singapore, same song and dance but do nothing about it - then they return to being sheep.
Sillyporeans are those who don't dare or won't want to think for themselves. Those are the people I am fed up with. They think upgrading is everything to get their property up in value - but in actual fact - HDB sell leases of 99 years -it won't benefit their own future generations.
Hence to call those who prefer to lead a simple life in Singapore as sillyporean is really very unfair. Futhermore, I am sure there are also many dumb, racist white Australia living in downunder isnÂ’t it? Hence it only goes to show that there are all sort of people living in this world and you have no right to judge them as sillyporeans or whatever unless they are committing a crime. -
Simple life in Singapore ? HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAOriginally posted by Gazelle:Everybody is born different and everybody has different priorities in life. Some people might find the Australia weather is good and society is liberal, while some prefer Singapore because it is safe, clean and vibrant.
Hence to call those who prefer to lead a simple life in Singapore as sillyporean is really very unfair. Futhermore, I am sure there are also many dumb, racist white Australia living in downunder isnÂ’t it? Hence it only goes to show that there are all sort of people living in this world and you have no right to judge them as sillyporeans or whatever unless they are committing a crime.
Let's see ......your version of simple life - does it happen to include an audi? Give me your definition.
My definition concludes that there is no way to live a simple life in Singapore - healthcare costs in Singapore is high since it is a user pay system, GST is high, HDB 99 year lease is too high, somemore got to pay maintenance fee , utilities and water , and then you got property tax. AND WAIT......take a holiday and you might find yourself without a job (especially if you are a nobody with no connections)
There is a way however to live a luxurious life in Singapore if you are a millionaire.
Sillyporeans are sheep who voted for PAP because they want the upgrading carrots. How silly is it to think short term and don't think long term? Maybe your definition is not of a simple life but of a simpleton's life.
Simple life in Australia maybe - healthcare is free, pension is there to cover the bills , lots of cheap rural properties . Yes you have racists around but who bloody cares as long as you have cash.
Simple life in China maybe - if you live up the mountains and have your own veggie patch.
Simple life in Singapore- HAHHAHAHAHAHAH -
There is no need to get personal here. just because you choose a life in certain way that doesnt mean that is the coolest way to live life and all Singaporeans must agree to that or else they will be labelled as sillyporean.Originally posted by fymk:Simple life in Singapore ? HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
Let's see ......your version of simple life - does it happen to include an audi? Give me your definition.
My definition concludes that there is no way to live a simple life in Singapore - healthcare costs in Singapore is high, GST is high, HDB 99 year lease is too high, somemore got to pay maintenance fee , utilities and water , and then you got property tax. There is a way however to live a luxurious life in Singapore if you are a millionaire.
And please dont start comparing singapore to australia because we are different and we prefer to remain different.
And please stop using the word sillyporean, that wont make you look very smart -
I am not getting personalOriginally posted by Gazelle:There is no need to get personal here. just because you choose a life in certain way that doesnt mean that is the coolest way to live life and all Singapore must agree to that or else they will be labelled as sillyporean.
And please dont start comparing singapore to australia because we are different and we prefer to remain different.. Why are you so sensitive? Like the way you twist my words.
I just seem to recall that you liked to talk about your wife's audi so I wondered if you factor that into a "simple" life after all one must practice what one preaches.
I didn't say that just because I chose a different life meant that it is a coolest life. Read my definition of sillyporeans (Singaporeans who vote PAP in because of upgrading carrot). Like I said to soul rage - I empathise with those who feel stuck in Singapore.
If people want to stay in Singapore because they are millionaires there, it is fine by me - it is their millions and millions talk loud in Singapore. They are clever by staying in Singapore where business is easy to run and you can hire and fire workers without a care for unions coming down on your throat. Those people probably make up about 1-2% of the population.
I am not comparing Singapore to Australia - I am comparing possible lifestyles such as "a simple life" in Singapore - and the rest are mere illustrations - please note that I also quoted China as well. -
You mean singaporeans who needed a lift upgrade and vote for PAP are consider sillyporeans? FYI, those who needed the upgrade the most are old and disable and i think it is wrong to call them silly just because you are young and mobile.Originally posted by fymk:I am not getting personal. Why are you so sensitive? Like the way you twist my words.
I just seem to recall that you liked to talk about your wife's audi so I wondered if you factor that into a "simple" life after all one must practice what one preaches.
I didn't say that just because I chose a different life meant that it is a coolest life. Read my definition of sillyporeans (Singaporeans who vote PAP in because of upgrading carrot). Like I said to soul rage - I empathise with those who feel stuck in Singapore. If people want to stay in Singapore because they are millionaires there, it is fine by me - it is their millions and millions talk loud in Singapore. I am talking about the commoners who ain't millionaires - the ones who might want to lead a simple lifestyle but might not be able to do so due to cost.
I am not comparing Singapore to Australia - I am comparing possible lifestyles in Singapore - and the rest are mere illustrations - please note that I also quoted China as well. -
Love the way you play the moral game. Here is my retort.Originally posted by Gazelle:You mean singaporeans who needed a lift upgrade and vote for PAP are consider sillyporeans? FYI, those who needed the upgrade the most are old and disable and i think it is wrong to call them silly just because you are young and mobile.
The government has a moral responsibility to make facilities accessible to all in public housing .
According to what you said above , won't it be immoral to have a government who would threaten the accessibility of facilities or restrict the accessibility of all public areas , facilities and housing to the elderly and disabled just because they refuse to vote for a particular party? What gives a government the bloody right to such a ghastly thing as you implied in your above statement ?
Upgrading necessary facilities and amenities in public areas for all citizens to use , be it young/old and disabled, to use is a moral obligation.
The money used is taxpayer's money. The young old and disabled contribute someway to this money , be it income tax or buying things ( GST tax). Just because one area does not vote for the government doesn't give the government the right to deprive that populance of its right to accessible facilities.
The upgrading carrot I was thinking of - is the one where they add extra storage rooms and repaint or remodel the facade to increase face value, and I never thought that it would be linked to necessary upgrades as you have implied.
The necessary items should not and in fact NEVER be dangled in front of needy citizens. Everyone pay taxes even those in opposition areas - everyone has a right to have accessible essential facilities. -
Originally posted by fymk:
Are you saying that the politicians in Australia and American doesnt use carrot to win votes? And Singapore government is the only government in this world that does that?
Love the way you play the moral game. Here is my retort.
The government has a moral responsibility to make facilities accessible to all in public housing .
[b] According to what you said above , would it be immoral to have a government who would threaten the accessibility of facilities or restrict the accessibility of all public areas , facilities and housing to the elderly and disabled just because they refuse to vote for a particular party?
Upgrading necessary facilities and amenities in public areas for all citizens to use , be it young/old and disabled, to use is a moral obligation.
The money used is taxpayer's money. The young old and disabled contribute someway to this money , be it income tax or buying things ( GST tax). Just because one area does not vote for the government doesn't give the government the right to deprive that populance of its right to accessible facilities.
The upgrading carrot I was thinking of - is the one where they add extra storage rooms and repaint or remodel the facade to increase face value, and I never thought that it would be linked to necessary upgrades as you have implied.
The necessary items should not and in fact NEVER be dangled in front of needy citizens. Everyone pay taxes even those in opposition areas - everyone has a right to have accessible essential facilities. [/b]