Free Tibet!!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo& Tibetans tortures by Dalai lama&westerners
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Tibet WAS,IS,and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China
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Yeah, Tibetans have been tortured by China as well. Too bad they are unable to assert themselves.
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Bush should talk to Laden and get his army out of middle east
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Originally posted by Colby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo& Tibetans tortures by Dalai lama&westerners
you're missing the point colby clone ....
my point is ... what would people in other countries think of China now ? ....
now that violent chinese mobs are instigating violence in other countries ? ....
here, to reinforce it to you again ...
riots .. (no, not tibetans, chinese ... and not in china either)
mob violence ... (no, not tibet too ... in seoul)
one world, one dream ... (08 olympics slogan in action, in seoul)
personally, I think most koreans don't give a flying fark about the tibetans .... but when you see this on your national TV ... how would you feel ? ... you guys sure know how to make friends and give a good impression, all over the world ...
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The Chinese riots are stupid, but no more stupid than the Tibetan rioters.
All we get to see are people attempting to cause destruction and/or disturb the peace.
In the end, who gains? Opponents of China. Who loses? China (and Tibet).
Really silly situation if you ask me.
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Folks, have you ever wondered why all the 'sudden' love for Tibet evaporated so quickly once the torch came to Asia?
I doubt if these same pro-Tibet people would be consistent in their love for Tibet by doing the same with the Paralympic Torch Relay that will follow after.
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Originally posted by tai gok nang:
Folks, have you ever wondered why all the 'sudden' love for Tibet evaporated so quickly once the torch came to Asia?
I doubt if these same pro-Tibet people would be consistent in their love for Tibet by doing the same with the Paralympic Torch Relay that will follow after.
are you sure that the "love" suddenly evaporated ? ...
or they just got swamped out by certain mobs ? ... watch the videos I posted up please ...
I suspect that the mobs were much more violent in asia than in the west, because deep down, despite all their nationalistic and patriotic fervor ... most of them there in the west, are afraid of being arrested and deported, thus loosing their foothold in the west ? ... the el dorado ? .... so they just sticked to shouting and waving flags ? ....
the only people who migrates to south koreans are the north koreans, maybe? ... so doesn't matter lah ! ... go there fight and whack people also nevermind ! ...
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I don't support mixing sports with politics.
These tibetan supporters also seem quite irrational to me, do they protest against USA/Iraq, Israel/Palestine too?
http://allafrica.com/stories/200805010458.html
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Originally posted by Fatum:
are you sure that the "love" suddenly evaporated ? ...
or they just got swamped out by certain mobs ? ... watch the videos I posted up please ...
I suspect that the mobs were much more violent in asia than in the west, because deep down, despite all their nationalistic and patriotic fervor ... most of them there in the west, are afraid of being arrested and deported, thus loosing their foothold in the west ? ... the el dorado ? .... so they just sticked to shouting and waving flags ? ....
the only people who migrates to south koreans are the north koreans, maybe? ... so doesn't matter lah ! ... go there fight and whack people also nevermind ! ...
Oh, I forgot to elaborate that the Asia I meant is 'East Asia', which does not include Nepal and India that have a significant number of Tibetan people residing there.
In Thailand, there was only handful of protesters during the torch relay. I was also in the crowd, following the torch from Chinatown to the Royal Plaza, where the relay ended. Apparently almost all of them were westerners and some leftist NGOs. In other Asian countries, most of the protesters were also as seen from most pictures local people, who already hold Anti-China sentiment but they were just in the disguise of 'Tibet empathizers'.
And I am wondering if these same people would continue to voice their idealism in the Paralympic Torch Relay........
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Boycott Carrefour. (just jking, lol)
Let me list down the self-evident reasons why the western powers, in my opinion, are the ones at fault for the situation we see today regarding Beijing olympics.
- The support for Tibet freedom from the western powers is clearly a political move to curb the growth of China and in a simpler sense, screw China up. However, no matter how much the western powers wish to screw China, it should still not entangle itself with a global sports event and ruin the spirit of sportsmanship.
- The western portrayal of the Chinese government is extremely biased. I guess this goes without explanations.
- Is China at fault for stopping a riot started by Tibetans with military force when there's already widespread violence and looting?
- Tibet has tax exemption from the Chinese Central government and it still receives 90% of its revenue from the central government annually. If Tibet were to be free, even though China no longer has an obligation to provide monetary aid to the area, but as its closest neighbor, China will incur losses since it still has to provide aid to Tibet. On the other hand, the western powers have no much obligation to do so.
I hope this will change your mindset. :D -
I think you're quite right that most ppl aren't pro Tibet, they are just anti-China.
And to be honest, I can see where they come from.
The Chinese government just isn't "in touch" with the rest of the world sometimes. They think they can cover everything up with some bullsh!t propaganda. We've seen how blatant they are ever since the EP-3 incident, proclaiming the turbo prop plane made a sudden high turn rate manuever that crashed into an agile single seat fighter.
And thats just following up with THEIR own interpretation of the Laws of the Seas. Everybody respects a 12 mile territorial water limit while those jokers there think they own 200miles of water around them.
Everytime the Chinese govt screws the pooch on some international issue, they have this massive propaganda engine of theirs come up with some online-flood of biased information to activate nationalistic sentiments. Best example, this bullSh!t "WAS,IS and ALWAYS part of China" clip. If they think everybody's gonna believe that they "Liberated" Tibet back in the 1950s, they are wrong. Outside China, ppl still remember it as an "Invasion."
Bringing up all the Yuan, Qing Dynasty history does little to justify China's claim of Tibet to be part its territory. If that were the case, Singapore, should belong to the Indonesians since it was founded by a Prince of the Srivijayan empire.
Bullsh1t as usual from the "Central Government."
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Here's my reply to Shotgun.
About your last argument, I do agree that to certain extent, the "liberation of Tibet" can be considered an "invasion".
However, the point is that China, as a country with many provinces, each with its unique culture and historical background, should not just let one of its provinces be independent just because it is making a hell lot of noise on the international stage. Here are the reasons:
- The general good for Tibetans. If China were to let Tibet be on its own, Tibet will probably fall to become an even worse 3rd World country. That is due to economic and political reasons. As for economic reason, I have already described earlier on. As for political reasons, the power vacuum created by the absence of Chinese government will result in civil war between the religious leaders, Dalai Lama et al., or parties with different ideologies. Examples seen today are the Middle East countries.
- Reciprocality. If Scotland were to say that it wishes to leave the UK, will UK allow that to happen?
- Do all Tibetans want to separate from China? No referendum made. The general disapproval to the Chinese rule may just be set up by the western powers.
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Very exaggerated claim to say China 'invaded' Tibet.
Can your country invade your own country?
What is the definition of an invasion ?
USA had civil war, did the north 'invade' the south?
China had civil war, did the communists and nationalists all 'invaded' one another repeatedly all across China?
Just from this term 'invasion' , it is already a twisting of fact, shifting the pendulum, bending the discourse.
I strongly challenge this notion.
People who use the term 'invasion' would like you to believe 'Tibet' is a sovereign and separate entity, apart from China, and China, being another entity, 'invaded' it.
Please take a look at history, it is an event inside China's revolution. Tibet has been part of China for centuries. It is part of an ancient landscape of China.
When did Tibet become a sovereign and separate country?
On what map did it appear that way?
Show me what map and what time period, even on British maps or others.
So how can 'Tibet' be 'invaded' by 'China' ?
Just from that sentence alone, it is wrong on so many levels.
Can 'Sembawang' be 'invaded' by 'Singapore' ?
Is that a logical idea ? Follows logic..? Philosophically sound?
Not just Tibet, in some eastern provinces, up to 1950s there wasnt soverignty recovered in other parts of China. Dalian/ Lushun in the east, in 1955 China exercise sovereignty. Even Hong Kong, only recently China regain control and sovereignty.
So I dont understand why some people blindly follow this idea 'China invaded Tibet'. In my opinion this is a very fatal flaw in their basis of thinking for supporting Tibetan independence, without true understanding of Tibet's history as a whole.
I did say it previously, be careful when u adopt terms and jargons. One person's terrorist is another person's hero. So when u call someone a 'terrorist' that means u already adopt a certain viewpoint and already put on a certain glasses when u see other things.
So dont be so easy to say 'China invaded Tibet', a very flawed and baseless claim and make u put on tainted glasses to see all the rest.Meat Pao.
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Originally posted by Meat Pao:
Please take a look at history, it is an event inside China's revolution. Tibet has been part of China for centuries. It is part of an ancient landscape of China.
When did Tibet become a sovereign and separate country?
On what map did it appear that way?
Show me what map and what time period, even on British maps or others.
So how can 'Tibet' be 'invaded' by 'China' ?
Just from that sentence alone, it is wrong on so many levels.
Map of Tang
http://www.zum.de/whkmla//histatlas/china/haxchina.html
A website showing the terrorities controlled by China from 18th century Qing to 1970.
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Originally posted by Meat Pao:
Very exaggerated claim to say China 'invaded' Tibet.
Can your country invade your own country?
What is the definition of an invasion ?
USA had civil war, did the north 'invade' the south?
China had civil war, did the communists and nationalists all 'invaded' one another repeatedly all across China?
Just from this term 'invasion' , it is already a twisting of fact, shifting the pendulum, bending the discourse.
I strongly challenge this notion.
People who use the term 'invasion' would like you to believe 'Tibet' is a sovereign and separate entity, apart from China, and China, being another entity, 'invaded' it.
Please take a look at history, it is an event inside China's revolution. Tibet has been part of China for centuries. It is part of an ancient landscape of China.
When did Tibet become a sovereign and separate country?
On what map did it appear that way?
Show me what map and what time period, even on British maps or others.
So how can 'Tibet' be 'invaded' by 'China' ?
Just from that sentence alone, it is wrong on so many levels.
Can 'Sembawang' be 'invaded' by 'Singapore' ?
Is that a logical idea ? Follows logic..? Philosophically sound?
Not just Tibet, in some eastern provinces, up to 1950s there wasnt soverignty recovered in other parts of China. Dalian/ Lushun in the east, in 1955 China exercise sovereignty. Even Hong Kong, only recently China regain control and sovereignty.
So I dont understand why some people blindly follow this idea 'China invaded Tibet'. In my opinion this is a very fatal flaw in their basis of thinking for supporting Tibetan independence, without true understanding of Tibet's history as a whole.
I did say it previously, be careful when u adopt terms and jargons. One person's terrorist is another person's hero. So when u call someone a 'terrorist' that means u already adopt a certain viewpoint and already put on a certain glasses when u see other things.
So dont be so easy to say 'China invaded Tibet', a very flawed and baseless claim and make u put on tainted glasses to see all the rest.Meat Pao.
Following up, Indonesia can also legally acquire Singapore via a military operation without being labelled as an Invasion. After all, Singapore was once territory belonging to the Srivijayan empire that had its capital in Sumatra.Ancient history sometimes don't weigh as much. From the period of the 1910s up to the PRC invasion of Tibet in the 1950s, Tibet was not under Chinese control nor did China exercise any acts of sovereignty.
Sembawang cannot be invaded by Singapore because the ethnicity of the people are the same, Singapore government has consistently exercised sovereignty over the "district".
Of course, Tibet is a recognized part of China now. Much good came out of it especially in terms of infrastructure development. But the act of acquiring the territory, was through a process called an "invasion. If we do not consider PLA's expedition in 1949 -1951 as an invasion, it will embolden the Chinese government to attack Taiwan in future, since its an even weaker case to classify as an invasion.
Personally, I do not support Tibetan independence (simply cause they'd be worse off). But I support keeping China in check. We know how much it is expanding militarily, and we do not want it to start making historical claims and unilaterally claiming territories with its military.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Following up, Indonesia can also legally acquire Singapore via a military operation without being labelled as an Invasion. After all, Singapore was once territory belonging to the Srivijayan empire that had its capital in Sumatra.Ancient history sometimes don't weigh as much. From the period of the 1910s up to the PRC invasion of Tibet in the 1950s, Tibet was not under Chinese control nor did China exercise any acts of sovereignty.
Sembawang cannot be invaded by Singapore because the ethnicity of the people are the same, Singapore government has consistently exercised sovereignty over the "district".
Of course, Tibet is a recognized part of China now. Much good came out of it especially in terms of infrastructure development. But the act of acquiring the territory, was through a process called an "invasion. If we do not consider PLA's expedition in 1949 -1951 as an invasion, it will embolden the Chinese government to attack Taiwan in future, since its an even weaker case to classify as an invasion.
Personally, I do not support Tibetan independence (simply cause they'd be worse off). But I support keeping China in check. We know how much it is expanding militarily, and we do not want it to start making historical claims and unilaterally claiming territories with its military.
I think the use of the term 'invasion' is pretty much exaggerated here. The West had not used this term when 'western friendly' Republic of China was in power until China became Peoples Republic.
And I believe the fear of China growing militarily that it could threaten neighbouring countries is also very exaggerated. Just compare how many nukes the US, Russia, UK, France, and China, India, Pakistan have in its possession. My friend, the US is No.1 in this regard - more than 30 times China's nukes. Let alone Chinese technologies that are 20-30 years behind those of the West. The priority for the Asians is to keep the US in check!
That's the reason why I am wondering if these same people would continue to voice their idealism in the Paralympic Torch Relay...... if they love Tibet so much.
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But I support keeping China in check. We know how much it is expanding militarily,
Wrong country, try USA.
We need strong China and Russia to check USA global hegemony and aggression.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/index.htm
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China's master plan is starting to be more visible now. The asian invasion has been successful. Centuries of migration. Now to take over all key government positions all over the countries of the world. Soon... the world will tremble. 1 nation 1 flag 1 earth. Under the China flag.
WANG SHUI WANG SHUI WANG WANG SHUI!!!
Long de chuan ren.
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What about USA's master plan?
Their invasion of Iraq based on lies?
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USA's 500 yr old existence and its master plan cannot compare to China's plan in action 5 thousand years ago.
Whatever the invasion and its reasons. All i know is , they need the oil. And yes. I believe that those oil should power thier military. Cause if there is no US military. The world wont be wha t it is today. And yes. I believe , weapons of mass destruction or not , better the oil in the Imperialist expansionist zionists then in Fundamanelists Extremists Islamists Jihadists hands.
l
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5000 years still cannot succeed for China.
Must be a poor plan.
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A grand plan that involves billions of people is not an easy plan. But its slow and steady approach is evident that the plan will eventually succeed.
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I think the plan will succeed in another 1000 years.
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The wheels are in motion. The clock is ticking.
1000 yrs is nothing after 5000 years.