If you are leaving Singapore, where will you go?!
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Originally posted by I'm back:
i said protest onlysolicting - you are bugging/forcing people
got some uncles here want to solicit with me, please understand, it is an offence ya.protest is ok, but dun protest anyhow hor
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In reply to Lionoasis!
Thanks for all your input and discussions in this topic that you've raised, unfortunately there're always some ignorant "misfits" who will try to spoil everything by writing things that are completely off the topic!
I thereby bid you and some who do care about Singapore, farewell and whatever you endeavour. God bless and cheers!
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Originally posted by Chelsea 1 71:
In reply to Lionoasis!
Thanks for all your input and discussions in this topic that you've raised, unfortunately there're always some ignorant "misfits" who will try to spoil everything by writing things that are completely off the topic!
I thereby bid you and some who do care about Singapore, farewell and whatever you endeavour. God bless and cheers!
Welcome to the FPF Club! FPF stands for Frustrated Part-time Forumer. Yeah, I know, and as a friend of mine told me, there would always be houseflies in these spaces. I only check in once in a long while these days, and surprisingly this thread has grown to such volume (20000 + views!). Anyway, sometimes, you could find some good ones...dun totally give up just yet.Cheers!
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Originally posted by angel7030:
got some uncles here want to solicit with me, please understand, it is an offence ya.protest is ok, but dun protest anyhow hor
sure or not
who said protest is ok
you have to apply for the license and wait for approval from spf
pls don't anyhow write
even if you have freedom of speech
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Why are Singaporean quitters so enamoured with anglo-saxon countries? Haven't you guys had enough of materialism and consumerism? Why not go for somewhere more "European" (and no, Britain is hardly European)? I'll be leaving next April/May to a place where a whole stretch of the avenue is lit up every night with some of the world's most beautiful lights. It's a place world famous for its cuisine (if you gonna take Michelin for its word). If you're in an arty farty mood and want some Da Vinci, you can stroll down to a pyramid-like art museum which houses works like the Mona Lisa, St John the Baptist etc. If you happen to fall sick and feel too sluggish to go down to the doctor's, call them to come to your house. This is after all the country with the best healthcare system in the world (again, if you believe WHO). Forget about Golden Village. This place has the largest cinema screen in Europe. Or you can always join crowds of people to watch a movie on the grass patch and under the stars. Tired of working? You only work 35 hours a week here (although the right wing president wants to change it). Best of all (doesn't apply to Singaporean women) there's no compulsory military service here. Cheers :)
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Originally posted by Rvnisaloy:
Why are Singaporean quitters so enamoured with anglo-saxon countries? Haven't you guys had enough of materialism and consumerism? Why not go for somewhere more "European" (and no, Britain is hardly European)? I'll be leaving next April/May to a place where a whole stretch of the avenue is lit up every night with some of the world's most beautiful lights. It's a place world famous for its cuisine (if you gonna take Michelin for its word). If you're in an arty farty mood and want some Da Vinci, you can stroll down to a pyramid-like art museum which houses works like the Mona Lisa, St John the Baptist etc. If you happen to fall sick and feel too sluggish to go down to the doctor's, call them to come to your house. This is after all the country with the best healthcare system in the world (again, if you believe WHO). Forget about Golden Village. This place has the largest cinema screen in Europe. Or you can always join crowds of people to watch a movie on the grass patch and under the stars. Tired of working? You only work 35 hours a week here (although the right wing president wants to change it). Best of all (doesn't apply to Singaporean women) there's no compulsory military service here. Cheers :)
I can relate to what you say about those environments and atmosphere that Europe provides, I had a girlfriend orinigally from HK who was crazy about lifestyles in that part of the world. But sincerely, without laksa, chicken rice, 4-D, convenient stores just around the corner, language barrier (many European countries don't speak English), efficient working environment, and singlish (trust me, this gives much comfort to Singaporeans) - great majority of Singaporeans will NOT find comfort living there.
There have been more than 20000 views, other than 2-3 individuals who opt to stay out for work/ business reasons, no one has come out with a sound reason why they should leave, all they do is whine whine whine and complaint. This is probably becoming the 3rd favorite national pass-time, after food and shopping.
Such approach to life is... sigh.
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Originally posted by Rvnisaloy:
Why are Singaporean quitters so enamoured with anglo-saxon countries? Haven't you guys had enough of materialism and consumerism? Why not go for somewhere more "European" (and no, Britain is hardly European)? I'll be leaving next April/May to a place where a whole stretch of the avenue is lit up every night with some of the world's most beautiful lights. It's a place world famous for its cuisine (if you gonna take Michelin for its word). If you're in an arty farty mood and want some Da Vinci, you can stroll down to a pyramid-like art museum which houses works like the Mona Lisa, St John the Baptist etc. If you happen to fall sick and feel too sluggish to go down to the doctor's, call them to come to your house. This is after all the country with the best healthcare system in the world (again, if you believe WHO). Forget about Golden Village. This place has the largest cinema screen in Europe. Or you can always join crowds of people to watch a movie on the grass patch and under the stars. Tired of working? You only work 35 hours a week here (although the right wing president wants to change it). Best of all (doesn't apply to Singaporean women) there's no compulsory military service here. Cheers :)
France? wait till you find out certain things that you dont like and you never knew about that place, unless you did your homework...not saying that I do know, but nothing in this world is purely perfect.
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right on, in france, i saw opium smoker on street, Chinese beggar, and lots of dog shits, watch your step ya...lots of homo too and also lots of poor lazy artistes on the street...begging.
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Paris is less imperfect than Singapore. That's my take on perfection. I'm sure most Singaporeans would prefer roti prata over croissant, English over French, gobbling food instead of having 2 hour lunches, low taxes over high taxes, casual wear over chic dressing, work over life, yeo's over wine, peace over freedom of speech, Tampines Mall over Galeries Lafayette etc. But not me.
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Once you're sick of the "imperfections" of Paris, you can always take a 1 1/2 hour train ride to London. Fact is, there is a world out there. Singaporeans should step out and stop feeling so emasculated. It is as though your lives would crumble if you have no PAP watching over you.
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Originally posted by Rvnisaloy:
Once you're sick of the "imperfections" of Paris, you can always take a 1 1/2 hour train ride to London. Fact is, there is a world out there. Singaporeans should step out and stop feeling so emasculated. It is as though your lives would crumble if you have no PAP watching over you.
oh! ya, the Europe express bullet train hor, very fast, cross the English Channel, sit already also feel giddy if you keep looking out the window.Every men have their own ego and machoism, pride and integrity, kiasu and kiasee, that their rights, it is not that oppositions or supporters of opposition did not see the world, our oppositions are also educated peoples, the point is that, do we want to try different dishes or the same dishes all the time, you may regret that you tried those different dishes and end up sick and ill, but if you dun try, how do you know? The logic goes to PAP, yes, we may crumble if no PAP is watching us, thank you PAP, on the other hand, we may also stand stronger if some other party become the ruling party, just that we did not try, why so, because of fear and stagnatation behavior? because of danger and risk? because of livinghood and our family future?
To an ordinary Singaporean, he/she weighs the pros and cons, nevertheless, given what PAP had done and well done, his/her will feel that no one can emulate PAP, and changes will lead destruction of what had been built in his/her life, as Changes was never part of human liking, the trend is does, toward PAP again.
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wants nord pole .
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Nope, definitely not where I wanna be...and I have lived there for 5 years of my life, wow gold so I know what I am talking about.
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Originally posted by Rvnisaloy:
Once you're sick of the "imperfections" of Paris, you can always take a 1 1/2 hour train ride to London. Fact is, there is a world out there. Singaporeans should step out and stop feeling so emasculated. It is as though your lives would crumble if you have no PAP watching over you.
I agree that there is BIG BIG BIG world out there, but for the benefit of younger and/ or less travelled readers here, let's encourage "Exploration" and not "Emigration".
The reason I started this thread was to provide a platform for all reading to know what is best listed or promoted in the medias is NOT exactly what is best for them. We Singaporeans, should know we are unique in our own way, and are also limited in our own way.
Singaporeas belong in Singapore. At least have your hearts here, and do what you can to make yourself proud.
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Expats like life here; mixing with locals, less so
05:55 AM Dec 15, 2009
SINGAPORE - When it comes to giving expatriates a feel-good experience, Singapore has all the crisp processes and hardware - from the ease of setting up a utilities account and commuting to work, to organising their healthcare, finances and kids' school enrolment.But getting these foreigners to mingle with the locals? Not so easy.
In the second Expat Explorer survey commissioned by HSBC Bank International, the Republic overall provided the fourth best experience for expats - after Canada, Australia and Thailand - out of 26 countries worldwide.
Embracing the local food, language and entertainment was not an issue for expats here, but low on their priority was befriending locals or joining a local community group - a finding that lends weight to policy-makers' concerns over integration issues.
As was the case with Asia in general, expats in this region made friends readily - Singapore was the seventh friendliest locale in the league table - but this tended to be with fellow expats. In terms of ease of hooking up with locals, the Lion City ranked 18th.
The poll, touted as the largest global survey of expats, explored their quality of life in comparison to their home country, as well as integration and assimilation into a new culture.
More than 3,100 expats across 50 countries were surveyed between February and April, and each of the 26 countries that made it to the league table had at least 30 expats interviewed.
Singapore topped the table when it came to setting up of utilities, with an overwhelming 82 per cent of expats finding it a fuss-free experience. Two in five - double the global average - also said the quality of utilities was better than in their home country.
The quality of the transport system also won kudos, with 64 per cent reporting greater ease in their commute to work, compared to 44 per cent globally. And travelling as a whole was better in Singapore, said 72 per cent.
The Republic came in second to Malaysia where it came to organising school for expat children. Over half felt they enjoyed improved healthcare when they moved here (compared to the global average of 31 per cent), and nearly as many felt the quality of accommodation also improved (global average 42 per cent).
As for food, the multicultural city proved a clear food haven with 43 per cent of expats agreeing that meals have improved significantly - though France still topped the table in this respect with 71 per cent.
The United Kingdom turned out to be one of the worst locations in the survey for an expat lifestyle. Two in five said it was tough to find somewhere to live, over half said the daily commute to work was worse than in their previous country, while a third said healthcare had deteriorated and half said the same about the food.
In general, the survey found, over half of expats had lived abroad for more than five years. -
Originally posted by Lionoasis:
I agree that there is BIG BIG BIG world out there, but for the benefit of younger and/ or less travelled readers here, let's encourage "Exploration" and not "Emigration".
The reason I started this thread was to provide a platform for all reading to know what is best listed or promoted in the medias is NOT exactly what is best for them. We Singaporeans, should know we are unique in our own way, and are also limited in our own way.
Singaporeas belong in Singapore. At least have your hearts here, and do what you can to make yourself proud.
Haven't been posting in this thread, coz like you said, there's nothing new to comment.
pro-PAP supporters like to insist people, such as myself, hate Singapore because of my anti-PAP views, when in fact, to me, there is a clear distinction between anti-PAP versus anti-Singapore views
I moved out of the country for opportunities and a need to live another life, to experience another different world, to be able to go to some other different place simply by just driving north, south, east or west. As my mother said, she knew long ago that my heart is too big for the island, and I would fly someday.
By no means am I anti-Singapore. In fact, I am very proud of being a Singaporean. In my organization, where people come from a huge spread of different nations, I am always proud to sell Singapore as a great destination to them. I am one of a handful of Singaporeans here, and I am very proud to fly my nation's flag in this organization, where word-of-mouth of our country can easily spread to other countries due to the diverse nationalities here.
However, the PAP disappoints me, simply because of its extreme pro-business stance and overly easy criteria to import foreign labour, as well as it's over-excessive self-rewarding antics. I am paying a 6-star rate for govt service, and yet, that payment does not translate down adequately to benefits to the citizens. And yet, they have the audacity to tell citizens to be grateful to them.
That is not to say I won't go back to Singapore in the future. After all, my roots are back there, and I will be most glad to reunite with my friends and family in the future. However, I will ensure that I have more than enough for myself and my family, before I go back. Because our Govt cannot be depended on to take care of its citizens.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Haven't been posting in this thread, coz like you said, there's nothing new to comment.
pro-PAP supporters like to insist people, such as myself, hate Singapore because of my anti-PAP views, when in fact, to me, there is a clear distinction between anti-PAP versus anti-Singapore views
I moved out of the country for opportunities and a need to live another life, to experience another different world, to be able to go to some other different place simply by just driving north, south, east or west. As my mother said, she knew long ago that my heart is too big for the island, and I would fly someday.
By no means am I anti-Singapore. In fact, I am very proud of being a Singaporean. In my organization, where people come from a huge spread of different nations, I am always proud to sell Singapore as a great destination to them. I am one of a handful of Singaporeans here, and I am very proud to fly my nation's flag in this organization, where word-of-mouth of our country can easily spread to other countries due to the diverse nationalities here.
However, the PAP disappoints me, simply because of its extreme pro-business stance and overly easy criteria to import foreign labour, as well as it's over-excessive self-rewarding antics. I am paying a 6-star rate for govt service, and yet, that payment does not translate down adequately to benefits to the citizens. And yet, they have the audacity to tell citizens to be grateful to them.
That is not to say I won't go back to Singapore in the future. After all, my roots are back there, and I will be most glad to reunite with my friends and family in the future. However, I will ensure that I have more than enough for myself and my family, before I go back. Because our Govt cannot be depended on to take care of its citizens.
Good to see you back soul_rage!
I agree that you don't have to remain in the island to love the island, especially if you can contribute more now or in the future by staying away for a period of time. And you don't have to live in Singapore to help Singapore.
Like what you said about paying 6-star rate for gov't service, it can be seen that way can't it?! Our government is probably the highest paid in the world.
But here's an interesting fact: Obama spent half a billion dollars on his Presidential Campaign, and to win a job that pays him only USD400k a year. Hm.....who are his sponsors? What unwritten agenda must he deliver during his reign? Why Obama & the beneficiaries of the stimulus package fail or decline to comment where the USD5trillion has gone to? How expensive is this to the American people?
Granted and again, I like your analogy of the 6-star fee we pay; I am just saying other countries probably pay 6-star and get YMCA svc or Serangoon Inn svc.
Guess politics is dirty all over the world.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Good to see you back soul_rage!
I agree that you don't have to remain in the island to love the island, especially if you can contribute more now or in the future by staying away for a period of time. And you don't have to live in Singapore to help Singapore.
Like what you said about paying 6-star rate for gov't service, it can be seen that way can't it?! Our government is probably the highest paid in the world.
But here's an interesting fact: Obama spent half a billion dollars on his Presidential Campaign, and to win a job that pays him only USD400k a year. Hm.....who are his sponsors? What unwritten agenda must he deliver during his reign? Why Obama & the beneficiaries of the stimulus package fail or decline to comment where the USD5trillion has gone to? How expensive is this to the American people?
Granted and again, I like your analogy of the 6-star fee we pay; I am just saying other countries probably pay 6-star and get YMCA svc or Serangoon Inn svc.
Guess politics is dirty all over the world.
Well, in any political position, there will always be side benefits to being in that position. What makes you think that our leaders don't have side benefits? Take Ho Ching as an obvious example
Our leaders are worse than others, coz they want to have the cake and eat it at the same time (take high pay, get side benefits).
That's in summary how I will reply to your observations.
In short, there is no possible justification on the need to pay 4 to 5x market rate for a political leader, when the next closest political leader (HK CEO) is at US$600k a year only. We are WAY above the market my friend.
If they could justify themselves, then why is there so much anger over their self-rewarding. Why can't pro-PAP supporters explain it, other than throwing smoke grenades my way, or ask me why the leaders should justify to me, an ordinary citizen?
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
I agree that there is BIG BIG BIG world out there, but for the benefit of younger and/ or less travelled readers here, let's encourage "Exploration" and not "Emigration".
The reason I started this thread was to provide a platform for all reading to know what is best listed or promoted in the medias is NOT exactly what is best for them. We Singaporeans, should know we are unique in our own way, and are also limited in our own way.
Singaporeas belong in Singapore. At least have your hearts here, and do what you can to make yourself proud.
20 years ago (1980s - 1990s period), I would agree that Singaporeans belong in Singapore. The PAP government back then was not that self-serving (that is what I view of PAP government during that period) and cost of living was affordable. Singaporeans were earning decent salaries to feed their families and also able to clear their HDB housing loans within 5 - 10 years. Overall, it was a good place to live in.Now, the world has changed, the PAP government has become self-serving and cost of living here has become more expensive than before. Singaporeans have to work longer hours and harder to earn decent salaries to feed their families and their HDB housing loans now require at least 30 years to clear. Job security is becoming a thing of the past and contractual jobs are beginning to become the norm. It is also common to find above 40 years old singaporeans who have diplomas or even degrees driving taxis, working as security guards or in other low wages jobs. This group of people are PMETs working in MNCs before they were retrenched either during recessions or when MNCs moved operations to countries such as China, India, Malaysia, etc. Singapore employers find singaporeans aged 40 years old and above too old for work and they are not even near retirement age yet. For singaporeans aged 60 years old and above, they are not having it better than any of us. They are struggling to earn a living by working in fast-food restaurants, working as security guards, cleaners or other low wages jobs. They should be taken care of by the PAP government and enjoying their retirement after working close to 40 years building Singapore into what it is today instead of working to earn a living. Finally, the island has also become more crowded (the crowding isn't going to stop in the near future).
So, should singaporeans continue to live and endure (with the points I mentioned above) in Singapore since you mentioned singaporeans belong in Singapore? Have you walk the talk by coming back to Singapore permanently?
Your underlining message in this whole topic is (maybe I read it wrongly):
If you are borned in Singapore, you better stay in Singapore to contribute to the Singapore regardless of whether you are rich or poor and when you die, you might as well choose Singapore as your final resting place.
Your comment Singaporeans belong in Singapore reinforces your underlining message completely.
Finally, I leave you with 3 articles for you to enjoy and consider whether should Singaporeans belong in Singapore especially when the government is PAP.
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Originally posted by starExcaliblur:
20 years ago (1980s - 1990s period), I would agree that Singaporeans belong in Singapore. The PAP government back then was not that self-serving (that is what I view of PAP government during that period) and cost of living was affordable. Singaporeans were earning decent salaries to feed their families and also able to clear their HDB housing loans within 5 - 10 years. Overall, it was a good place to live in.Now, the world has changed, the PAP government has become self-serving and cost of living here has become more expensive than before. Singaporeans have to work longer hours and harder to earn decent salaries to feed their families and their HDB housing loans now require at least 30 years to clear. Job security is becoming a thing of the past and contractual jobs are beginning to become the norm. It is also common to find above 40 years old singaporeans who have diplomas or even degrees driving taxis, working as security guards or in other low wages jobs. This group of people are PMETs working in MNCs before they were retrenched either during recessions or when MNCs moved operations to countries such as China, India, Malaysia, etc. Singapore employers find singaporeans aged 40 years old and above too old for work and they are not even near retirement age yet. For singaporeans aged 60 years old and above, they are not having it better than any of us. They are struggling to earn a living by working in fast-food restaurants, working as security guards, cleaners or other low wages jobs. They should be taken care of by the PAP government and enjoying their retirement after working close to 40 years building Singapore into what it is today instead of working to earn a living. Finally, the island has also become more crowded (the crowding isn't going to stop in the near future).
So, should singaporeans continue to live and endure (with the points I mentioned above) in Singapore since you mentioned singaporeans belong in Singapore? Have you walk the talk by coming back to Singapore permanently?
Your underlining message in this whole topic is (maybe I read it wrongly):
If you are borned in Singapore, you better stay in Singapore to contribute to the Singapore regardless of whether you are rich or poor and when you die, you might as well choose Singapore as your final resting place.
Your comment Singaporeans belong in Singapore reinforces your underlining message completely.
Finally, I leave you with 3 articles for you to enjoy and consider whether should Singaporeans belong in Singapore especially when the government is PAP.
I might be able to offer you a perspective of what Lionoasis is concerned about:
1) He is looking to see views of people who walk the talk, not just complaints and whining. I do agree that there is a difference between constructive dis-satisfaction, versus dis-satisfaction bordering on self-pity.
2) He is looking to distinguish between people who left Singapore COMPLETELY (not coming back), and those who are away for the time being (like myself, who may go back still), and to see views of each group of people
Your posting above is something that is probably what he likes to read, constructive observation and discussion.
As I cautioned to him, if he wishes to go back to Singapore, he has to be very careful about the 40 year old age discrimination.
It's a major issue of why I decide to uproot myself. In the future, I do not want to see myself being told by the Govt that I am stupid becoz I am 40 and above, and thus must accept their rubbish about lower pay.
PS: Frankly, (no offense), I find remarks about wanting to go and live in Antartica very immature.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Well, in any political position, there will always be side benefits to being in that position. What makes you think that our leaders don't have side benefits? Take Ho Ching as an obvious example
Our leaders are worse than others, coz they want to have the cake and eat it at the same time (take high pay, get side benefits).
That's in summary how I will reply to your observations.
In short, there is no possible justification on the need to pay 4 to 5x market rate for a political leader, when the next closest political leader (HK CEO) is at US$600k a year only. We are WAY above the market my friend.
If they could justify themselves, then why is there so much anger over their self-rewarding. Why can't pro-PAP supporters explain it, other than throwing smoke grenades my way, or ask me why the leaders should justify to me, an ordinary citizen?
Our political people are not businessman or actors or actresses turns politicians as some asian countries situation, PAP nurtured peoples who are potential to be CEO or MD of any corporations, all are well educated and good decision makers. The identification of potential political leader is a critical issue in any PAP agenda, and once identified, you need to nuture and of course paid them well, once paid and future is satisfied, peoples will perform to their utmost, and as time goes by, in a natural process of any career, the passion and love for the citizen/work will set in automatically.
The question come back to, Is it wrong to pay our Ministers the highest paid politicians in the world? It is not that we cannot afford it or we have to borrow to pay them??? No. As I said many times, the undertable pay of any of the govt around our region is much more than our Minister paid. Therefore if you want ask me why should we paid them so high. My answer it, because, things get done, notice that when our govt said something, it is not just walk the talk, they make sure and ensure that it get moving and get done. As a Chief of OCBC, Mr Tony Tan will be getting much more higher paid than a politician, but he loves politic more than be a banker, Goodyear, former CEO of temasek paid was much higher than a our financial Minister, Mr Tharman, the botak and a top surgeon in a specialist trade earns more than our Health Minister Mr Khaw, the shorti. And if you look at Dr Ng, Minister for education, who formerly a top gynae in Mount E, my grandma used to consult him, his income as a gynae, surgeon, lecturer, speaker of gynaelogy etc etc...can earn him more than a Minister.
And if you think as a politican is easy, you notice that most of those who join in, get their hair bald or white within a year or two, Dr Ng, when i first saw him as a gynae, he was very youthful, full of black hair, jovious and real joker too, and just by talking only, he can charge me $1000, you think good money or not? But today, he look haggared with messy white hair coming, so, dun even think that it is good money/paid to be a politician in Singapore. Even their life is also not as much freedom as we do, whatever they talk or do or go, it must be correct and presentatable. Their movement are restricted.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I might be able to offer you a perspective of what Lionoasis is concerned about:
1) He is looking to see views of people who walk the talk, not just complaints and whining. I do agree that there is a difference between constructive dis-satisfaction, versus dis-satisfaction bordering on self-pity.
2) He is looking to distinguish between people who left Singapore COMPLETELY (not coming back), and those who are away for the time being (like myself, who may go back still), and to see views of each group of people
Your posting above is something that is probably what he likes to read, constructive observation and discussion.
As I cautioned to him, if he wishes to go back to Singapore, he has to be very careful about the 40 year old age discrimination.
It's a major issue of why I decide to uproot myself. In the future, I do not want to see myself being told by the Govt that I am stupid becoz I am 40 and above, and thus must accept their rubbish about lower pay.
PS: Frankly, (no offense), I find remarks about wanting to go and live in Antartica very immature.
Hi Soul_rage,
Thank you very much for clarifying for me - ditto!
Yes, I will go back when I am ready, and hope it will be 2010 after Shanghai Expo. My business is almost in place.
Wish me luck!
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Our political people are not businessman or actors or actresses turns politicians as some asian countries situation, PAP nurtured peoples who are potential to be CEO or MD of any corporations, all are well educated and good decision makers. The identification of potential political leader is a critical issue in any PAP agenda, and once identified, you need to nuture and of course paid them well, once paid and future is satisfied, peoples will perform to their utmost, and as time goes by, in a natural process of any career, the passion and love for the citizen/work will set in automatically.
The question come back to, Is it wrong to pay our Ministers the highest paid politicians in the world? It is not that we cannot afford it or we have to borrow to pay them??? No. As I said many times, the undertable pay of any of the govt around our region is much more than our Minister paid. Therefore if you want ask me why should we paid them so high. My answer it, because, things get done, notice that when our govt said something, it is not just walk the talk, they make sure and ensure that it get moving and get done. As a Chief of OCBC, Mr Tony Tan will be getting much more higher paid than a politician, but he loves politic more than be a banker, Goodyear, former CEO of temasek paid was much higher than a our financial Minister, Mr Tharman, the botak and a top surgeon in a specialist trade earns more than our Health Minister Mr Khaw, the shorti. And if you look at Dr Ng, Minister for education, who formerly a top gynae in Mount E, my grandma used to consult him, his income as a gynae, surgeon, lecturer, speaker of gynaelogy etc etc...can earn him more than a Minister.
And if you think as a politican is easy, you notice that most of those who join in, get their hair bald or white within a year or two, Dr Ng, when i first saw him as a gynae, he was very youthful, full of black hair, jovious and real joker too, and just by talking only, he can charge me $1000, you think good money or not? But today, he look haggared with messy white hair coming, so, dun even think that it is good money/paid to be a politician in Singapore. Even their life is also not as much freedom as we do, whatever they talk or do or go, it must be correct and presentatable. Their movement are restricted.
Oh really? CEO? MD? I see.
So Wong Kan Seng should step down since Mas Selamat escaped on his watch. Or are you telling me that he should not be blamed? Any CEO/MD material would have done the right thing and step down and take the responsibility.
Instead, he hid behind LHL, who went on to say how the top people should not be blamed, and that the lower ranks should be punished. CEO/MD material... yeah right.
And since you want to use corporation talk, where are the KPIs? In a corporation the CEO has CLEAR objectives from the shareholders (taxpayers in our context), so where is the answering to the shareholders?
The CEO's pay is also determined by the Board of Directors. Do we have a checking power in place to ensure salaries don't become overexcessive?
I believe the correct question is:
"Do Singaporeans think our leaders DESERVE their pay?"
It's NOT for you, or the very fat cats at the top to answer, but its for every shareholder to vote.
To date, they do not even DARE to ask the public for their opinions.
What have they done so far to walk the talk, other than losing billions in the market? Raising ERP? Raising GST? Raising taxes?
And, if you want to compare salaries, do not compare with the private sector, because you are comparing apples and oranges. As I said, politicians around the world are not paid even half of what the politicians of this tiny island are paid. There is a market rate, if individuals price themselves out of the market, they should be replaced.
Get New Zealand ministers over to govern our country. Am sure they are cheaper, better, faster, according to the surveys of the least corrupt countries in the world.
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Originally posted by starExcaliblur:
20 years ago (1980s - 1990s period), I would agree that Singaporeans belong in Singapore. The PAP government back then was not that self-serving (that is what I view of PAP government during that period) and cost of living was affordable. Singaporeans were earning decent salaries to feed their families and also able to clear their HDB housing loans within 5 - 10 years. Overall, it was a good place to live in.Now, the world has changed, the PAP government has become self-serving and cost of living here has become more expensive than before. Singaporeans have to work longer hours and harder to earn decent salaries to feed their families and their HDB housing loans now require at least 30 years to clear. Job security is becoming a thing of the past and contractual jobs are beginning to become the norm. It is also common to find above 40 years old singaporeans who have diplomas or even degrees driving taxis, working as security guards or in other low wages jobs. This group of people are PMETs working in MNCs before they were retrenched either during recessions or when MNCs moved operations to countries such as China, India, Malaysia, etc. Singapore employers find singaporeans aged 40 years old and above too old for work and they are not even near retirement age yet. For singaporeans aged 60 years old and above, they are not having it better than any of us. They are struggling to earn a living by working in fast-food restaurants, working as security guards, cleaners or other low wages jobs. They should be taken care of by the PAP government and enjoying their retirement after working close to 40 years building Singapore into what it is today instead of working to earn a living. Finally, the island has also become more crowded (the crowding isn't going to stop in the near future).
So, should singaporeans continue to live and endure (with the points I mentioned above) in Singapore since you mentioned singaporeans belong in Singapore? Have you walk the talk by coming back to Singapore permanently?
Your underlining message in this whole topic is (maybe I read it wrongly):
If you are borned in Singapore, you better stay in Singapore to contribute to the Singapore regardless of whether you are rich or poor and when you die, you might as well choose Singapore as your final resting place.
Your comment Singaporeans belong in Singapore reinforces your underlining message completely.
Finally, I leave you with 3 articles for you to enjoy and consider whether should Singaporeans belong in Singapore especially when the government is PAP.
Hi,
Like what soul_rage said, I DO like to read your kinda articles...thank you. I am sure you know now why I started this thread. In my own words, I was not cynical, just wanted to stimulate people's minds to think this issue real seriously, instead of complaining or fantacizing where they could have been or should have been, without a real understanding of their "Utopia". I hope our people can be more practical and be responsible for themselves - research, understand, analyze and act. Singapore or not, should be a by-product of their mature & tested decision. However, I still think Singapore is the best destination for great majority of Singaporeans, one of the reasons is because we are culturally unadaptable, we have been living in a city that is too contained - partly due to our national policy - and I do blame the government for this.
A related issue, do you know I do not like dealing with most Singaporeans and I totally dislike dealing with our government or related companies? And I have lived more than 20 years outside Singapore. Why do I still return? To me, a home is a home, and will always be a home. This sentiment may not apply to all, I am sure.
What you sighted about lives of beyond 40's is mostly true (not that you are lying, I just see them slightly differently) and sad. But look around, aren't these "natural' things we will see in an aging economy whose literacy level is amongst the highest in the world? Must we do something about it? Of course! But are we alone? NO. We are not isolated in the type of problems we face. What is more relevant is, can we solve our problems? Well, may be, I am not quite sure. Visiting SgForum has opened my eyes (despite the houseflies....Smack!! Just hit another one...), and I am asking myself questions these days. But yes, I WILL go back to Singapore, hopefully next year in 2010, here's a timeline for you.
Please contribute more, even if you don't agree with me. Quality posts are always welcomed here.
Thank you.