Singapore At War
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Good story!!
Easy and very Singaporean!!
Bwahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!! -
very singaporean??? no lah...that is the malaysian version. SIngaporeans go defend malaysian, bleed, die , suffer and pay big money just to save those malaysian's pitiful ass, and when the war is over, singaproeans would go home to the little island empty handed, while malaysians rejoice...Originally posted by Dune:Good story!!
Easy and very Singaporean!!
Bwahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!
the singaporean version is even more easy.. and we wont go home empty handed either. ;>
first, WE can just sit back and continue to do buisness with whoever now controls malaysia by declaring neutrality.
OR we can wait and see if the indonesians would like to come to defend malaysia...OF course...getting the indonesians to go to malaysia is the easy part. getting them to leave malaysia so that malaysia dont end up becoming a new province of indonesia is gonna be difficult...heheee
Alternatively.......we could come to an agreedment with the invader to split malaysia and share the land by conducting joint invasion against malaysia... the attacker with 500,000 soldier hitting northern malaysia and singapore with 500,000 soldier hitting southern malaysia.
The pitiful 50,000 malaysian soldier defending peninsula malaysia would be crushed in days.
this will leave east malaysia with 30,000 soldier an easy picking for indonesia with 300,000 soldier and phillipine with 500,000 soldier. even brunei with 5000 soldier would have a piece of malaysia.. all in the name of...defending malaysia against further aggression by singapore ..heheheee
after a generation or 2...the word malaysia shall only exist in the history book. -
Wah lau , you people soooo horrible
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Hmmmm First time on this thread. But will pay close attention in future. Okay Scenario.
Assuming China is hostile, so is malaysia and the other "possible hostile" neighbours.
China Wants to make a move on Taiwan using its numerical advantage. Naturally there will be US intervention in the form of US CVBG. Possible situation where USN @ Pearl will not be able to form a group with enough fire power and airframe due to severe defence cutbacks. USN Atlantic transits ships through Singapore @ Changi.
China Would foresee such a simple move. China Sends "Small" Number to harass Thai n Cambodia border while Malaysia n Indonesia makes a move on Singapore. Thai facing Chinese Juggernaut will not be able to pincer malaysia as planned. Brunei forces put up resistance against Indon forces. Due to Strategic Location, Indon can prevend airlift from Aust-land. Singapore forces effectively cut off from reinforcements, unless Australia n Singaporean reinforcements fight through Indonesian naval n Air Forces. India Known for neutrality, no assistance expected.
Singapore will face a fight on its own, and if Thai Collapses, fighting might fall back to the island itself. Not exactly bright and cheery now are we?
Of course this scenario is set when China has achieved or is about to achieve superpower status and that it has help Indon and malaysia economically and upgraded their military capabilities. After all, MiG-29 and Su-27s are all designed in Russia.
Su-27s indeed out performs an F-15C, those upgraded models aka Super Flankers are comparable to F-15E. F-16C/D will not be able to match up to a Flanker without BVR capability, hence procurement of AMRAAM. RMAF's F/A-18s can pose a threat to RSAF F-16C/D if their pilots can clock as many hours as ours.
RE: the MBTs, Singapore operates centurions, or TEMPESTS, 80-100 of them.
Also designing new Light Tank based on bionix's chasis with 105 mm gun.
APFSDS = Armor Pierciing Fin Stabilising Discarded Sabot. Super high velocity anti tank round designed to pierce through MBT armor.
New kinda round to take note.
STAFF=Special Top Attack Fire n Forget Round.
When over target, using radar to identify and home in on target where armor is thinnest.
Also, High Possibility of RSAF purchasing EF2000. EF2000 Operates ECR90 radar, or CAPTOR. I don't think 70 air frames is feasible, perhaps slowly in batch order. Approximately 32 Apache D with LongBow Radar will be ordered in total.
As for cruise missiles, thats not certain. They were talking about AGM-142s, but still nothing substantial. Can't say Singapore won't operate cruise missiles also, or else all those UAVs will go to waste.
By the way, I heard from sources that the Russian Navy has put to sea a new class of submarines. AKULA II or something, which they said is comparable to an early 688. If its true, would such technology proliferate to China? -
Sorry but your scenario got some problem.
1. an attack on singapore effectively threatens global balance in the form of affecting the shipping of oil and goods between continents. such an attack would automatically trigger
a. to the east of singapore, the japanese, korean, vietnam, phillipine, brunei, cambodia, USA, australia and taiwans economic and military security, not to mention the change in geopolitical alignment towards CHINA's favor.
b. To the west of singapore, such a move will threaten the security and economic well-beings of India, burma, bangladesh, middleeast nation and the EU which is made up of dozens of nations belonging to NATO.
IF ever china try such a move, even russia would be worried about the rising chinese power and may have to redeployed its 50 division strong army next to china.
In short, the scenario of china wacking taiwan and asking malaysia and indonesia to wack singapore while at the same time starting a border war with thailand would result in only one situation....
CHINA GOING TO WAR ON MULTIPLE FRONT.
EASTERN FRONT:: KOREA, USA, JAPAN.
NORTHERN FRONT:: RUSSIA
WESTERN FRONT:: former russia republic eg. tajikistan and turkmenistan.(they have joint defence treaty with RUSSIA)
SOUTHWESTERN FRONT:: INDIA and BANGLADESH
SOUTHERN FRONT:: THAILAND, VIETNAM and BURMA.
SOUTH EASTERN FRONT:: TAIWAN and Phillipine.
OTHER NATION IN THE WAR against CHINA:: USA, NATO, SINGAPORE, AUSTRALIA, NZ and CANADA.
any malay leader in malaysia and indonesia would be wise to declare neutrality against such an overwhemling military confrontation or risk national destruction and devastation and disintegration.
even if PRC is a superpower and a giant econonmic power house, i doubt it can take on the world including 4 nuclear superpower. -
Glad to see such replies.
I am mounting my scenario on some analysis based of Stratfor. The political arena as such, is going into a rather ANTI-US stance. Further analysis also indicates that China And the Russian Federation do have some underlying relationship and it would be no surprise if there was a strategic alliance and cooperation between the 2 largest countries in Asia. Of course, The United States Government is trying to dissuade the Russian Federation from such a situation and has even proposed to procure the S-300 system for use in their Theater ballistic missile defense system. Even though the United States has already developed a superior system. Of course, the Russians Rejected the deal, showing signs that it would prefer to cooperate with China, their largest client in military hardware.
This is shift the balance of power seriously, if Russia even lends its navy to China to hold of Japan n Korean Naval forces. China is also along its way in producing a blue water navy. We all know that they building a new aircraft carriers with the capability to operate the Navalised flanker. The Flanker, a russian made combat aircraft which even western air force analysts would show respect to. Already PRC operates a large fleet of submarines, perhaps the largest in the region, old but derelict Tangos and kilos. Definitely it would procure or produce more submarine forces which may include VictorIII, Akula and even the latest Russian AkulaII.
Should the PRC develop into such a superpower, which I already consider an inevitable. It will Dramatically shift the balance of power in the region. And I ask again, who in the region and resist such a large and powerful military force? Can the United States sustain such warfare in the pacific? Singapore Would be hard pressed to hold off its own. And the possibility of Malaysia and Indonesia, already demonstrating anti-western stance being involved in perhaps the largest Opposition against the United States is very high. Even IF war does not break out, Singapore will face significant pressure from its neighbouring countries for allowing the United States use of facilities in the region. Currently, Singapore has wisely not adapted a pro-western stance, making minor disagreements with the western allies. This however has not kept it from being refered to as western lackeys by "SOME" neighbouring countries.
In conclusion, my personal opinion, Singapore is being forced to maintain a strong Armed Force, capable of defeating it regional hostile nations decisively for it to survive in a highly plausible Global Conflict. But it also means, that both you and I are living in Ground Zero. -
i think we need to break the above down to more bite size chunks, considering them altogether will be very complex.Originally posted by Shotgun:Glad to see such replies.
I am mounting my scenario on some analysis based of Stratfor. The political arena as such, is going into a rather ANTI-US stance. Further analysis also indicates that China And the Russian Federation do have some underlying relationship and it would be no surprise if there was a strategic alliance and cooperation between the 2 largest countries in Asia. Of course, The United States Government is trying to dissuade the Russian Federation from such a situation and has even proposed to procure the S-300 system for use in their Theater ballistic missile defense system. Even though the United States has already developed a superior system. Of course, the Russians Rejected the deal, showing signs that it would prefer to cooperate with China, their largest client in military hardware.
This is shift the balance of power seriously, if Russia even lends its navy to China to hold of Japan n Korean Naval forces. China is also along its way in producing a blue water navy. We all know that they building a new aircraft carriers with the capability to operate the Navalised flanker. The Flanker, a russian made combat aircraft which even western air force analysts would show respect to. Already PRC operates a large fleet of submarines, perhaps the largest in the region, old but derelict Tangos and kilos. Definitely it would procure or produce more submarine forces which may include VictorIII, Akula and even the latest Russian AkulaII.
Should the PRC develop into such a superpower, which I already consider an inevitable. It will Dramatically shift the balance of power in the region. And I ask again, who in the region and resist such a large and powerful military force? Can the United States sustain such warfare in the pacific? Singapore Would be hard pressed to hold off its own. And the possibility of Malaysia and Indonesia, already demonstrating anti-western stance being involved in perhaps the largest Opposition against the United States is very high. Even IF war does not break out, Singapore will face significant pressure from its neighbouring countries for allowing the United States use of facilities in the region. Currently, Singapore has wisely not adapted a pro-western stance, making minor disagreements with the western allies. This however has not kept it from being refered to as western lackeys by "SOME" neighbouring countries.
In conclusion, my personal opinion, Singapore is being forced to maintain a strong Armed Force, capable of defeating it regional hostile nations decisively for it to survive in a highly plausible Global Conflict. But it also means, that both you and I are living in Ground Zero.
First: the relationship between the superpowers. At this point of time, america is the superpower of the superpower, this forced russia and china to join together to counterbalance their common threat. the threat of america does not arise from its idealogical or religious or even political influence. IT is simply the threat posed by the powerful US military. the omni-power status of the US army forced nations which are weaker to bridge their differences and come together for the sake of common security, in simplistic terms, out of fear of US military power. The rising US power and the diminishing threat posed by former warsaw nations including USSR led to the NATO powers to reconsidered the need to be align to USA, as can be exemplified by the EU in attempting to form a pan EU nation military force while conveniently leaving USA out of the picture. EVEN Japan and some other former strong US allies has begin to move their position from Pro-USA to neutral on the US side.
The USA obviously isnt foolish nor blind to this situation, the continuous lost in goodwill and tolerance towards americans presence since the end of the cold war has led to realization that US of A cannot maintain its dominance unless it can keeps its former allies close to USA.
BUT such a move will be difficult in the absence of a common threat. IT is far easier to tell the NATO nations the danger of a warsaw pact army swarming every western cities then trying to convince the NATO nations that CHINA which is 20,000 miles away on another continents would send tens if not hundreds of millions of soldier to attack europe across the middleeast or across central asia.
BUT...in time... CHINA will become a superpower, but even if china becomes the new superpower of the superpower, it is doubtful that china could go on an all out war against the whole world, such a move is stupid and by all measure, lacks wisdom. Continuous war and endless conflicts would only result in national losses and eventually weakens a nations military and economic power. This is the very reason why we dont see USA getting involve in every damn war around the world.
Furthermore, an aggressive China would ultimately forced others of lesser powers to align themselves with USA out of fear and desire for common security, exactly what USA wanted all along by clamoring about the rising power of china. Russia since the cold war have view China with a suspicious eye, even now it still does, when CHINA become omni powerful, russia may have to side with america to maintain balance of power and security just as it now sides china when USA is omni power.
Singapore govt, forsees this rise in CHINA as inevitable, singapore govt also forsees the realignment of weaker nations towards USA in the future when CHINA becomes the new supersuperpower. thus singapore govt decided that since such an event is inevitable, it makes good sense to get into america's good book now by showing our willingness to stand by america just when america is loosing friends all over the globe.
Next; it is doubtful that Russian navy can hold off korean and japanese navy, and it is even more doubtful that russia would get involved in a war of such a magnitude in view of its dilapitated economy and a navy that doesnt even have the funds to buy fuel.
Lastly on singapore, Singapore's greatest threat does not come from the outside, it comes from the inside. the problem of ever rising cost of living, the falling birth rate, the greater divided in the haves and have nots and the rising dissent against the govt urge to do more and more and more for less and less and less. the bad management of our nations human resources and lack of compassion for the underachievers would finished singapore first way before the first malaysian, indonesian or chinese troops land on singapore. the lost in social and national cohesion would see the singapore flag end up in the toilet before anything else. -
Originally posted by tripwire
Bwahahahaha. Thats a good joke. I agree very much with you. Falling Birthrate affects the concription system. Rising dissent against the government. Oh, i see these people everyday in school. Whenever i talk about Singapore, guess what they'll say.
Lastly on singapore, Singapore's greatest threat does not come from the outside, it comes from the inside. the problem of ever rising cost of living, the falling birth rate, the greater divided in the haves and have nots and the rising dissent against the govt urge to do more and more and more for less and less and less. the bad management of our nations human resources and lack of compassion for the underachievers would finished singapore first way before the first malaysian, indonesian or chinese troops land on singapore. the lost in social and national cohesion would see the singapore flag end up in the toilet before anything else.[/B]
" Singapore, Wa Lau, 1 small red dot can do what. One Kuala Lumpur alone can swallow Sinagpore liao lor, defend? Wa Lau, i nuclear missile hit us then we will be seeing fishes lor." By the way, if ever a nulear missile hit Singapore, will thw whole Singapore disapper beneath the sea? Thats whats everyone think. -
Forget those people in your school. they are simpleton, nothing more, perhaps even less then that.Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:Bwahahahaha. Thats a good joke. I agree very much with you. Falling Birthrate affects the concription system. Rising dissent against the government. Oh, i see these people everyday in school. Whenever i talk about Singapore, guess what they'll say.
" Singapore, Wa Lau, 1 small red dot can do what. One Kuala Lumpur alone can swallow Sinagpore liao lor, defend? Wa Lau, i nuclear missile hit us then we will be seeing fishes lor." By the way, if ever a nulear missile hit Singapore, will thw whole Singapore disapper beneath the sea? Thats whats everyone think.
NUKE singapore?? dont be a fool.Singapore also have a few nukes...lets see who wanna start the ball rolling...
one NUKE cant send us fish seeing. BUT that one NUKE would certainly send dozens of NUKEs heading the attackers way....U see...NOBODY likes lunatics who doesnt play by the rules....If whoever dares to nuke singapore exist, than this nation would probably have no qualms about nukeing another nation...this obviously will not go down well with the superpower, few if any nation on this world wanna be living on the same planet with a bonkers with nuke trigger...so what to do?? NUKE that bastard and vaporise his entire fucking country to heaven lor...hahahahaahaaaaa..... -
Singapore own nukes meh?????? I thot its banned from doing so under the non-proliferation treaty??
*even if we do operate similar weapons, we shouldn't talk about it.
In anycase, As for my scenario... its based on a worst -case scenario. Reasons behind why it will want to do so, we will probably never know until it happens.
We shouldn't be complacent by the fact we are allied to a Superpower, cos it is during our lifetime, the balance of power will shift.
By the way, can anybody confirm if the RSAF is really gonna buy 70 EF2000? -
Here's another tank website:http://afvid.topcities.com/country/country.html
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if singapore go 2 war with malaysia....den how can any1 really confirm hu is the agressor..as we haf superior weapons..they may sae us...but we are smaller...so if we win..wat does tt symbolise??? any comments..?????
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The country that wins writes the history... the country that lose... writes the tombstone.Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:if singapore go 2 war with malaysia....den how can any1 really confirm hu is the agressor..as we haf superior weapons..they may sae us...but we are smaller...so if we win..wat does tt symbolise??? any comments..????? -
[/QUOTE] The country that wins writes the history... the country that lose... writes the tombstone.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by write tombstone?They won't die, instad we will force them to pay homage to us.We will make sure we cripple them economically just like what they did in the treaty of Versailles.
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Who cares who wins or lose. Who cares whose the aggressor. As long as we sing Majulah Singapura and not some Malaysian anthem can liao.
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In other words we must defend Singapore with all our heart,soul,and mind.PATRIOTISM FOR SINGAPORE RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Are you sure Indonasia's PT-76 is a MBT? Its weight of 14000kg doesn't fit into the MBT category.Even the AMX-13 is heavier than it at a weight of 15000kg
see:http://afvid.topcities.com/country/country.html -
Cos its a light tank?
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hu cares heavier onot.its the ability n firepower tt counts.imagine an AMX-13 tank destroying the pt-76 from a long range. i can bet tt it takes 3 or 4 pt-76 2 damage our amx-13....(i heard sum haf been equipped with reactive armour)...can any1 tell me more abt reactive armour...?
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The truth is the AMX13 SM1 is very lightly armoured. Its thin armour cna be penetrated by just normal LAW BUT, what modern land battle is talking about is a new story. Last time, tank battle is fought in close range, Vietnam War, Korean War.... Why? They are highly armoured, their armour is even thicker than our SM1. So what the commander and the gunner have to do is challenge the enemy, seeing who's projectile is better and whose armour is better. they will fire and fire until the one of the commander say "KILL CONFIRMED!". indeed, our light tanks is lowly armoured, but we have the BRAINS. We use tactic that minimize casualties. We don't just let armour forces go shouting "CHIONG AR!!!!!" like our neighbour. With good Generals, tactic and technology (C3I), lousy tank also can fight a winning war what. What is importrant is trainig, not equipment. BY the way, i read from the straits times that U.S is providing training for Malaysia. Malaysia is tring to convert its foces to a conventional force. Possible??? Personally, i think that chances of SM1 fitted with reactive armour is 70%. Malaysia had spent money buying high-tech anti-tank missiles, coz they can't afford tanks. But these missiles is a threat to our armour. What do you think?Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:hu cares heavier onot.its the ability n firepower tt counts.imagine an AMX-13 tank destroying the pt-76 from a long range. i can bet tt it takes 3 or 4 pt-76 2 damage our amx-13....(i heard sum haf been equipped with reactive armour)...can any1 tell me more abt reactive armour...? -
You guys know how sniper works? They camouflage themselves, and interdict targets @ long range. Its pretty much how our SM1s work.
Armored warfare these days is a mess. If you think that armored warfare is like the Ardennes, huge clusters of tanks firing and rushing, wrong.
The main objective of an armored force now, is simply to deny, or gain control of advantageous terrain. The SM1s compensate armor for range. Which means it will complish its mission via direct long range fire from its maingun. But admit it, the guns on the SM1 ain't exactly "long ranged" either. It has probably improved range, but not exactly long range. APFSDS rounds slow down over distance, reducing penetration ability. Heat rounds have reduced penetration ability BUT that stays constant regardless of range. Its really not easy. But thats not gonna work when enemy tanks come knocking and looking for full contact. Thats when armor counts.
About reactive armor. Reactive armor is a kind of armor technology bent to foil shaped charge warheads. Shaped charged warheads travel to its target, then explodes, sometimes shooting out a penetrator. Shaped charge warheads includes, anti-tank missiles, HEAT rounds. They have a constant penetration regardless of range as its the explosion that drives fragments to penetrate the armor. *IMAGINE A SHOTGUN flying at u, wearing a kevlar vest, then firing it into your kevlar as the gun muzzle presses against it* OWww.
What is reactive armor? Its actually explosives placed on the external side of the tank, exploding outwards. How does it counter shaped charge warheads? Remember that shaped charged warheads uses an explosive force to propell its fragments or penetrator thru the armor. The reactive armor explodes as the shaped charge warhead comes into contact with it, generating a counter explosive force in the opposite direction of the shaped charged warhead. It will effectively prevent penetration of the armor. Of course, its Murphy's world out there, shit does happen.
After a section of the reactive armor explodes, it leaves behind a blank patch, where a second hit in that area would generally Kill the tank. Which is why mobility is a very important asset in today's armored war.
Oh yeah, Reactive armor does NOT work well against Long rod penetrators like APFSDS. -
Wah.....say until like as if AMX-13 is so Gooooooood....okay, This are based on my experience on Amx-13 SM1.
The Good:
-One of the few 75mm with APFSDS capability
-IR capability
-improved and fast engine
-auto loader system
The Bad:
-only 40mm of Steel armor (known to public liao)
-Unstable suspension due to over-powerful engine...prone to overturning or easily stuck.
-Poor tracks design. noisy and difficult to maintain
-Loud and noisy...no tactical sense in noise.
-too high of a profile for a light tank
-lightly armored driver's hatch
-no support for reactive armor
-unable to fire on the move
-unable to fire after a certain degrees in turning
-outdated FCS...not even computerised
-not amphibious
-unable to do cross-country
-low gradient
face it man, this antique should be scrapped.
Now you know why SAF's designing a new light tank? -
So...yoz a Tankee.... Tell me more man. I've been inside the turret of the SM1. Experience: NEVER GO TO ARMOR UNLESS SAF HAS A NEW TANK!!!!!!!!!! Its damn small, cramped and yes, the driver's hatch is extremely lightly armoured, or maybe not armouredOriginally posted by Silenthunter:Wah.....say until like as if AMX-13 is so Gooooooood....okay, This are based on my experience on Amx-13 SM1.
The Good:
-One of the few 75mm with APFSDS capability
-IR capability
-improved and fast engine
-auto loader system
The Bad:
-only 40mm of Steel armor (known to public liao)
-Unstable suspension due to over-powerful engine...prone to overturning or easily stuck.
-Poor tracks design. noisy and difficult to maintain
-Loud and noisy...no tactical sense in noise.
-too high of a profile for a light tank
-lightly armored driver's hatch
-no support for reactive armor
-unable to fire on the move
-unable to fire after a certain degrees in turning
-outdated FCS...not even computerised
-not amphibious
-unable to do cross-country
-low gradient
face it man, this antique should be scrapped.
Now you know why SAF's designing a new light tank?
BTW, if you are really a Tank crew, does SAF tankees really carry M4 Carbine in their armoured vehicles??????? I think that the ATTC is even better protected than the SM1.
Does the SM1 has Laser Range Finder System?? -
LolZ, after all, AMX-13 Does belong to a pre-vietnam war era. But does it really have 40mm of steel? thats like quite pathetic.
4 Cm which is about <------------------> this thick. Can be penetrated easily by any modern anti-tank equipment.
Also, hull thickness is not the only factor determining penetration. The gradient counts. The lower the angle (nearer to horizontal), the hard it is to penetrate. -
First of all...I'm no tankee......I just have the experience but I'm not going to tell you further on my stuff.
Yes...AMX-13 SM1 does have a Laser Rangefinder, sorry I left out that. I think most tanks in the world have those anyway. Yes...it's frigging crapped inside. Sad to say, it's true....40mm is thin but I think your gauge on the arrows are not accurate...it's definately thicker than that
I say....scrapped that tank......no point milking an empty cow.
Tests demostrated that it take 2 LAWs to take out an AMX-13 from the front and 1 LAW the take out a M-113 w/o add-on armor. It take about 3 laws to take out a bionix w/o add-on armor. Of course, HEAT LAWs sucked anyway.
ATTC was made without armor...so it's basically a soft-skin vehicle. But I've seen armored variants with the Bionix type of armored plates...hmmmmm........
Yes.....all tankees carry CAR-15 Carbines. SAF doesn't use M4 Carbines.
The CAR-15 is basically the carbine version of AR-15. AR-15 is the older version of the M-16. So basically CAR-15 is like the older version of the M4 Carbine. It fires and same and looks the same, the only dif is that it has no forward assisting knot and the it is as heavy as the m-16. But you'll actually feel that it's lighter cause it's shorter and the center of gravity is greater. A good weapon for enclosed areas but sucked in accuracy.