Singapore At War
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unfortunately for all of us.... when the global economy goes downhill.... it isnt just small small singapore that gets the impact... in fact... from the FEER review... i get the feeling that the editors and all those who gave their views are expressing a sense of shock if not disbelief that singapore... the shining diamond of asia could actually be hit by global economic slowdown despite the deftness of her govt... on the hand... economic failure, stagnation and even collapse is seen as the norm for the rest of neighbours... not worth reporting about. heeheOriginally posted by Illegal Operation:Off topic post. But I hope reading this article will humble ourselves a little.
http://www.feer.com/2001/0108_09/p012region.html
the downturn is unfortunate... but life is never a bed of roses... while achievements and capability of our govt in handling crisis is well known... it must be realise that there is a limit to that capability... like land size and population size... unless we go and wack malaysia for some additional 'living space'
BUT... even uncle sam is getting the flu... so .... makes no point making a comparison here.
Economically.... my view is...
1. the govt overtly emphasized the electronic sector... so much so... we have to accept the ups and downs of the electronic sector buissness cycle...
2. our govt need to ramp up our workers skill and qualification fast... i mean real fast... china is coming up too fast to be comfortable.
3. Set up a board in every department and minstries to test and accreditate both local and foreign specialist... to block off 'talents of dubious qualification' and also to prove to singaporeans... that those talents in singapore is indeed better then our own people and thus remove the misperception of bias in favour of foreign talents.. the accreditation also encourage local citizens to worked for it or stand to loose out... secondly... with accreditation. foreign MNCs would be enticed to invest in singapore due to the presence of real qualified talents.
this are just some of my opinion... but the strength of the mankind is our ability to turn adversity to our advantage... the economy is going down... what better time to build infrastructure at a lower cost? when can u find better time to throw displaced workers back into the schools??
Now is the best time for PAP to garner vote...shhhh..... -
Quoting Jake Lloyd-Smith from South China Morning Post : "You did it yourself. The root cause is not primarily a global, regional or economic slump but a government policy decision to expose Singapore to this sort of slump."Originally posted by tripwire:unfortunately for all of us.... when the global economy goes downhill.... it isnt just small small singapore that gets the impact... in fact... from the FEER review... i get the feeling that the editors and all those who gave their views are expressing a sense of shock if not disbelief that singapore... the shining diamond of asia could actually be hit by global economic slowdown despite the deftness of her govt... on the hand... economic failure, stagnation and even collapse is seen as the norm for the rest of neighbours... not worth reporting about. heehe
Its a global decrease in demand for electronics products, coupled with a slowdown in US economy. Hardly a reason to go into recession, unless one has put all his eggs in one basket, over dependency on a single sector of the US economy.
When interviewed by FEER, Mr James Gomez of Thinkcentre thinks otherwise.
Now is the best time for PAP to garner vote...shhhh..... -
i think we need to be objective... the current downturn isnt simply just the IT sector or the electronic sector.. its somewhat a general downturn...Originally posted by Illegal Operation:When interviewed by FEER, Mr James Gomez of Thinkcentre thinks otherwise.
as for the govt putting most of its egg in one basket... i think it is probably out of consideration of the circumstances we are in and the events around us.... man arent always able to change the environment... in fact man's action is usually the result of our environmental pressure...
Of course the govt can diversify... but then... there is a cost.... the cost is possibly lower growth rate and lower tech level.... over a longer period of time in exchange for a period of relief in the event of a particular industry downturn. we simply have to weigh our choices... u cant have the cake and eat it at the same time...u have to choose.
True that the current situation is partially the responsibility of the govt.... but isnt also true that prior to the downturn... everyone is showering praises on the govt on going high tech and IT savy???
forget those armchair commentator... they say without having to make the choice and bearing the consequence .... easy talk onli.
as for the political part.... success goes to he who can looks beyond the commoner's view. -
My opinion too. With more than half our economy in manufacturing, a decrease in demand of our produces spells disaster. A downturn in merely 1 sector of an industry becomes a general downturn for Singapore.Originally posted by tripwire:i think we need to be objective... the current downturn isnt simply just the IT sector or the electronic sector.. its somewhat a general downturn...
Quoting Jake Lloyd-Smith of SCMP again, "last year Singapore still had 26.5 per cent of its gross domestic product tied up in manufacturing, more than it had 15 years earlier, while Hong Kong has let natural forces slim down its reliance on manufacturing and build a service economy of many baskets, each holding only a few of many eggs."
as for the govt putting most of its egg in one basket... i think it is probably out of consideration of the circumstances we are in and the events around us
The recent merger of banks shows an attempt to build a service economy alike to Hong Kong. Good move, albiet a little late. Today, Singapore is 20 years behind Hong Kong in Finance..True that the current situation is partially the responsibility of the govt.... but isnt also true that prior to the downturn... everyone is showering praises on the govt on going high tech and IT savy???
I remember how dotcoms were once embraced back in 2000. We failed to ride on the dotcom miracle when it was at its peak, but we shared the wrath of the bubble busting.
Everyone was showering praises, but everyone was wrong. -
But F-16 got a lot off problem. Gulf War shows it. It is not capable of high level attacks. Besides tat, given that there are 300 light tanks, F-16 can onli tackle 2 at a time. However, with GBU-12, the F-15E can tackle up to 8 tanks ata time. It could oso carry twice the firepower of A-4 making it n ideal replacement 4 A-4s.In terms of dogfight, it oso process advance equipment.
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Do you have any idea how many Air to ground ordinance the F-15E can carry?? Its A2G payload is enormous for a fightersized aircraft.
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I noe. But F-16 does not have it payload or range.
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pleas lah. what is the use of long range,singapore is so small.anyway, mig29's range itsn't long too.
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pls lah, i m toking about offensive power not about guarding the sky of Singapore.
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PLs lar, is the RSAF KC135R's purchased for fun?????
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Exactly. Just to carry the tradion... Pls la, RSAF of course have some long range programmes in mind otherwise why they buy K-135 for? Humanitarian purposes? Ferry citizens back in a fuel tank? Which is why I think Singapore might purchase secretly a small amount of F-15Es.
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No. I mean the KC135R is used to support the F16C/D on long range attack mission. If you say that the Singapore Army purchases secret weapons, it is believable. The RSAf don't have to purchase F15E as the already large force of attack aircrafts in our inventory makes up for the lack of larger weapon payload. If a plane is loaded with many bombs and weapons, it will be very bo hua if that plane is downed and the multi-million weapons goes down with it. For what spend more money when our shorter ranged F16s can already knock out our neighbour's vital communication towers, power station Hq, bla bla at night.
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dont sweat it... i just wanna put my money of stand off weapons like JSOWs... these babies would make short work of the enemy without even having to risk our pilots and would still achieve the desired effect.Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:No. I mean the KC135R is used to support the F16C/D on long range attack mission. If you say that the Singapore Army purchases secret weapons, it is believable. The RSAf don't have to purchase F15E as the already large force of attack aircrafts in our inventory makes up for the lack of larger weapon payload. If a plane is loaded with many bombs and weapons, it will be very bo hua if that plane is downed and the multi-million weapons goes down with it. For what spend more money when our shorter ranged F16s can already knock out our neighbour's vital communication towers, power station Hq, bla bla at night. -
Hi
I'm new to this. So pardon/correct me if i make any factual mistakes. I've seen these pages for a while now...and one of the topics mentioned was RSAF intention of purchasing EF2000s...(or even F-15E)-were they from well informed sources?
I'm actually quite sceptical of that. Spore new fighter req is to have a range exceeding our present F-16s....and to fly that far indicates missions might most prob be offensive-ground attack. To this end our new order of 20a/c will be f-16D blk 52+ equipped with conformal tanks--all fully missionised 2 seaters(not really publicised this far, but u can see for urselves in 2003)...so i guess that rules f-15E purchases out as these f-16s can fly that far too. I would also like to point out that EF2000 is not as good in ground attack and as stealthy as the Rafale B....the former has 13 hardponts compared to the latter's 14.
Rafale already outstanding range, radius of action, will be even furthered by fitting conformal tanks..which is already been done with a view of offering it to a potential customer, presumably S'pore. They free up more hardpoints so as to carry more munitions. Speaking of buying weapons secretly, then announcing later, our Skyhawk detachment in France might already be flying "u know what". What for they go all the way there to learn a foreign language?
Personally i'm actually in favour of Rafale B over EF2000....although its more expensive...
Any comments, guys? Pls shoot... -
It is actually very difficult to determine which aircraft is better, unless the different aircrafts fight each other in a war & the better one will be determine from the kill ratio. For example, the Israeli's F-15 proved itself superior to Syrian's Mig-24 because the former are able to shot down 83 Syrian's fighter, & yet the Israeli had zero F-15 losses from that particular war.
However, there are some modern research done to determine, or at least, to predict, the ability of different aircrafts without having to see them fighting in an actual war. The following are 2 examples:
1) This is what I see from the following website: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm : "Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed."
2) Here are some info obtained from Pioneer Magazine, Apr. 1999 issue : "Studies show that the Eurofighter's only real competitor is the F-22. These studies also indicate that the F-22 can defeat the latest Russian Su-27 Flanker in 91% of beyond-visual-range engagements. The Eurofighter would succeed in 82% while the Rafale would survive in only 50% of such encounters. What is significant, however, is that the Eurofighter is 50% less costly to produce than the F-22."
The above examples may use different methods & opponent aircraft, however, if those research are accurate, it can be predict that EF2000 are overall more superior than Rafale. -
Sure you all know about the procurement of EF2000 by RSAF in the news paper today. 200+??!!!!!! thats more than the total amount of jets we have in our inventory now! rafale is good, real good. I think there is no need to spend more money on an aircraft that has an additional more hardpoint than the Typhoon, about the same performance. Thats what i think and if you got see the cockpit of the Typhoon before, you will give RSAF a thumbsup for purchasing it and the Newspaper article stated that the BAe (i think so) may allow us to purchase the highly capable Meteor BVRAAM. In this way, we don't have to purchase AMRAAm from U.S, which we don't get to keep in Singapore. The Meteor would be allowed to be kept in Singapore. TTs the good thing. And i read from Asian defense and Deplomacy that Russia is ready to provide Malaysia with a Squadron of 20 Su30MK long-range multi-role fighter. Hahahaha. Now the Malaysians had to keep their profile low as the EF2000 is tracking them. hahahaha.
JUst kiddin
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something to clarify here...actually the Israeli's F-15s destroyed mainly the Syrian's Mig-21 & Mig-23, instead of Mig-24.
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So guys, can we have a poll here?....pls state ur preference for RSAF's next fighter....EF2000, Rafale...etc....
Also, does EF2000 have a 2-seat missionised attack variant? The trend is towards 2 seaters for ground attack...Rafale B is already out....
Also, Mirage 2000D/N in Red Flag ex surprised observers/participants with their ECM capability and it was not even used at their full potential for fear of divulging too much....wonder what they'll install in Rafale...
Sorry but i'm going against the grain of thought....i would vote for the Rafale B...whether by capability or looks....i think it does have an edge over the Typhoon...despite what was posted a few messages ago....btw how do they obtain those figures/odds when pitted against the SU-35/37? -
It should be highlighted that environment factors/threats should also be taken into consideration when anyone were to chose their preference. No point talking about sophistication or product design if the weapon does not suit our requirement. Equally important is that the weapon should be able to effectively counter the best equipments from possible opponents.
I'll vote for EF2000. That should be the most advance fighter that we can possibly purchased. In fact, the EF2000 should actually be more powerful than it is now, because Germany had wanted to save cost & therefore some features were modified. However, the BAE had recently stated that opportunities for upgrading the EF2000 are available if they get the order from S'pore. Can anyone imagine the superiority RSAF would have if it operates upgraded EF2000s which are more powerful than those in Europe?
The missile system is important as well. Rafale is using the Mica, but i don't think it's as good as the Meteor BVRAAM in EF2000.
Another factor to consider is the new aircraft that are likely to threaten us. I think SU-30 is a possibility (if someone really come to the decision in purchasing such offensive weapon). If the studies & simulations done by the western countries are accurate, then the Rafale will not have much advantage over SU-30. In contrast, the EF2000 should be a better choice then. -
Honestly, in reply to a previous poster. Even if the upgraded F-16C/D could fly as far the F-15E, does it have what it takes to get in and get out? Does it have the capability to withstand battle damage? I have seen reports of F-15Es landing with 1 wing left due to training accidents. The TEWS systems of the F-15E exceeds those of an F-16C/D by far, with the capability to track missile launches 360 degrees, while showing distance and altitude. Imagine that!
I feel that the EF2000 is a great buy. The rafale is after all, older than the EF2000, and I really didn't think the RSAF would purchase planes and then phase them out. The EF2000 is new, and is still developing technologies to further enhanced the aircraft.
Screw the SU-30MK, Russians would prolly sell them dumb malaysians analogue systems again and they would end up paying to upgrade them to digital standards. Even their MiG-29A(upgraded) is no where close to the MiG-29SMT standard. Germany had to upgrade their fleet of MiG-29s after they merged, and fortunately for them, they had the industry and technology to do so.
The Su-30MK is also a large airframe, I'm sure our AWACS would be able to pick them up as the lift off. I'm just wondering if the RSAF would purchase the E-3. The E-2C is like sooooo cramped... crap. -
Honestly, in reply to a previous poster. Even if the upgraded F-16C/D could fly as far the F-15E, does it have what it takes to get in and get out? Does it have the capability to withstand battle damage? I have seen reports of F-15Es landing with 1 wing left due to training accidents. The TEWS systems of the F-15E exceeds those of an F-16C/D by far, with the capability to track missile launches 360 degrees, while showing distance and altitude. Imagine that!
I feel that the EF2000 is a great buy. The rafale is after all, older than the EF2000, and I really didn't think the RSAF would purchase planes and then phase them out. The EF2000 is new, and is still developing technologies to further enhanced the aircraft.
Screw the SU-30MK, Russians would prolly sell them dumb malaysians analogue systems again and they would end up paying to upgrade them to digital standards. Even their MiG-29A(upgraded) is no where close to the MiG-29SMT standard. Germany had to upgrade their fleet of MiG-29s after they merged, and fortunately for them, they had the industry and technology to do so.
The Su-30MK is also a large airframe, I'm sure our AWACS would be able to pick them up as the lift off. I'm just wondering if the RSAF would purchase the E-3. The E-2C is like sooooo cramped... crap. -
Is EF-2000 capable of supercruise without afterburner?Originally posted by Shotgun:Honestly, in reply to a previous poster. Even if the upgraded F-16C/D could fly as far the F-15E, does it have what it takes to get in and get out? Does it have the capability to withstand battle damage? I have seen reports of F-15Es landing with 1 wing left due to training accidents. The TEWS systems of the F-15E exceeds those of an F-16C/D by far, with the capability to track missile launches 360 degrees, while showing distance and altitude. Imagine that!
I feel that the EF2000 is a great buy. The rafale is after all, older than the EF2000, and I really didn't think the RSAF would purchase planes and then phase them out. The EF2000 is new, and is still developing technologies to further enhanced the aircraft.
Screw the SU-30MK, Russians would prolly sell them dumb malaysians analogue systems again and they would end up paying to upgrade them to digital standards. Even their MiG-29A(upgraded) is no where close to the MiG-29SMT standard. Germany had to upgrade their fleet of MiG-29s after they merged, and fortunately for them, they had the industry and technology to do so.
The Su-30MK is also a large airframe, I'm sure our AWACS would be able to pick them up as the lift off. I'm just wondering if the RSAF would purchase the E-3. The E-2C is like sooooo cramped... crap.
Can anyone provide the comparison of navigation system, electronic warfare suite, defence system, weapon system, Combat take-off run, combat radius, radar's ability and performance between EF-2000, Rafale, Su-30MK and Su-37? In order for our missiles to blow our enemy into hell, the above mentioned capabilities are too important.
Will the Americans sell E-3 to us? They had rejected our purchase for Longbow radars initially if not for Tony Tan. They had not determined us as friends or foes. Singapore and Thailand are US's only true friends in S.E.A.(After the Philipinos chase them out). Although they hate to admit it. I wonder if US offered Singapore to be their Strategic Defence partner? -
lets be frank about thailand.... the americans never considered them as dependable allies... but rather useful in terms of their geopolitical position.Originally posted by hardware:Is EF-2000 capable of supercruise without afterburner?
Can anyone provide the comparison of navigation system, electronic warfare suite, defence system, weapon system, Combat take-off run, combat radius, radar's ability and performance between EF-2000, Rafale, Su-30MK and Su-37? In order for our missiles to blow our enemy into hell, the above mentioned capabilities are too important.
Will the Americans sell E-3 to us? They had rejected our purchase for Longbow radars initially if not for Tony Tan. They had not determined us as friends or foes. Singapore and Thailand are US's only true friends in S.E.A.(After the Philipinos chase them out). Although they hate to admit it. I wonder if US offered Singapore to be their Strategic Defence partner?
As for singapore... the americans belief is... IF singapore is not my friend... then in view of its strategic location... it must be sent to hell with no mercy.
so clearly.... we arent their strategic partner... we are their strategic key to the far east... if we set ourselves against them... we are dead. if we side the americans too much.. than we are in trouble with alot of country that doesnt like america alot... like japan, korea and needless to say... PRC.
needless to say... america have a knack of making nations bordering strategic sea lanes a partner... like suez canal and panama canal... -
LoLz. True, we are in a crucial location to for shipping movements. And if we are not friendly to the superpower, we will be wiped off.
The EF2000 is supposed to be faster in terms of combat turns. Not to sure about combat radius, though it can carry 2 1500lb and 1 1000lb fuel tanks to extend its range. However, I do suspect the sukhois being superior in this aspect.
Did Singapore make purchase of Meteors? If so, the Malaysians can kiss their Adder range advantage goodbye. The EF2000 has also the ability to launch cruise missiles, that is the Storm Shadow. Which means while Malaysian Su-30s have to penetrate our airspace to launch, we can simply take off, match bearings and shoot! LOLZ. However, I don't think we will recieve such capabilities as it will seriously upset the already tense situation in SEA.
If the Americans refuse the sell the E-3s to us, then too bad i guess. E-3s would drastically increase early warning capabilities. And if Singapore falls, the waters around here would be one helluva place to park diesels subs, most dangerous of all naval weapons for this kinda enviroment.
Speaking of sea lanes, has the malaysians totally abandoned the idea to cut a canal thru along the Thai Border? -
according to the straits times, the BAE company offer to sell the BVRAAM missile 2 us without any restriction and transfer of other technology if we buy their EF2000. If this is really true, den the chances of EF2000 being choose is almost 100 i tink as through this way, singapore can gain alot of advanced weapons instead of a useless airframe like the F-16