2 months before wedding and ...
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I think can do away with the wedding dinner lor..
ROM = legally married le mah..
heck the customs lor..
somehow i feel that the girl is not settled down yet leh. -
Originally posted by OutOfIdeasHusband:Once, there is this guy A (33) , and this gal B (29). Gal B is a very sporty type, enjoy outdoor, the sun. Guy A is an indoor type, likes to stay at home and relax.
Guy is first bf for Gal. Gal is 2nd for Guy.
They are together for 2 years, before getting ROM. Before the ROM, the gal kick up a fuss and pick problems with the guy. All in the hope that the guy will find the gal irritating, and call off the ROM. After the ROM, the gal became havoc and stay out with frens, wanted to have fun. The guy kept quiet and the gal told the guy she regretted doing the ROM. The guy wore the wedding ring, the gal didn't. She still introduce the guy as "boyfriend". A month or so later, the guy stopped wearing the ring.
Some months later, they became ok, and they got a HDB. The guy took care of the reno, while the gal worked till late at night. They moved in together. After 1 year, the guy requested to have a traditional wedding dinner. The gal, fearing the same thing happen during ROM, would not like to have it. She needed more time for convincing herself. So, they had a quarrel over it. The guy relented and did not push further.
3 years have gone. Guy called the gal "Wife". Gal called guy "Hubby". In the 3 years, they went travel yearly, had fun doing stuffs together. Both had change for each other, guy became more outdoor, and gal loves to be with the guy. During this time, there are no big arguments or quarrels.
Gal went searching for wedding venues, and showed to the Guy. The guy wasof cos, very happy. They went and decided on the venue, and got the wedding package. They had a great day with the photoshoot. Inivitations were printed as well.
2 months before wedding. Gal went for a night outing with frens, and the Guy called her a few times to return as it is late (11pm ~ 3am). The gal became angry. They quarrel. The gal wanted to call off the wedding dinner. The guy knew she is purposely doing the same thing so as to call off the dinner. Guy asked her. She said she is still not committed. She is not sure He is the one. She feels something missing, as if waiting for another guy to appear.
Now, both guy and gal is feeling miserable. Gal wanted to have sometime alone to think about what she really wants. Guy is waiting. There are options :
a) Wait for Gal to be ready for traditional wedding dinner, could be 1 year, 2 year, never?
b) Forget about the wedding dinner. (Guy want dinner, think parents (both) also)
c) Go for counselling (Guy suggest)
d) Divorce for Gal freedom. She can goes to search for her perfect husband.
What do you think?
Emotionally, the woman is not ready for marriage, albeit her mind is probably hinting to her that she isn't young anymore and should be thinking of settling down. That is probably the reason why she accepted his ROM/HDB proposal, only to be defeated by her own introspection later on, fueled by individualism and wilfulness.
One major concern to her subconsciously is that probably because she only has one boyfriend in her life, there isn't any comparison nor choices. The only man she could claim as boyfriend monopolised and provided the framework and cosmic lesson she ought to grasp in BGR aspect. Her stark confusion is because ONCE the wedding dinner is hosted (announcement to friends, family and relatives), she would inevitably have that notion that there are more responsibilities, yet not necessary more happiness.
She probably feared to gamble her marriage on the ONLY known 'product' she has knowledge of.
I realized that every time when she hangs out with her friends, something drastic would happen. It is quite possible that the man could pick up important clue as to understand why is she so evasive towards marriage from them. Perhaps they are partial influence, or perhaps she might have told them something that the man is unconscious about (e.g. that she could be holding onto a certain past and has yet to initiate movement in her life, someone else initiate a chase, etc).
Too much individualism in a person makes him/her less domestic. When people are too used in enjoying freedom, sometimes, they are reluctant to give up this lifestyle in exchange for a marriage.
The man will likely to wait because he is unlikely to give her up and replay the dating scene (partially due to age and the desire for stability). I guess the ball lies with the woman. I believe that she still desire to be courted by someone else, given the choice, before she could make a decision. And a last thing she would ever want to face is to meet another person significant to her AFTER she has decided to commit.
She has fleeting emotions and not very decisive in judgment. I suggest a third party sort of mediation and counselling. Go for marriage preparation course or something and make decision AFTER that.
Cheers -
So, Guy can actually go and get rid of the wedding dinner already? Guy has not inform parents (both side).
Guy and Gal had a conversation. Gal is still angry about the outing nite. Gal feels Guy too controlling. Guy said control is a strong word. Concern is what he wanted. Control is dictating what she can or cannot do.
Gal said she wanted the freedom to go out without reporting back to someone. She wants to be able to go out with guy and not afraid the guy will be jealous. each can go out and have fun without reporting.
Guy ask, if Guy go out with other gal without reporting, will she be ok. No reply.
Gal said maybe with the investment (time and money and effort), Guy should put on another gal and may able to appreciate him better.
Both have taken each other for granted. Guy wanted to have a better conversation. Gal still angry. So guy don't want to talk till gal is not so angry.
Guy will be sad and very sad if it turns out to be a divorce.
A counsel meeting has been arranged this friday. Hope to have a clearer view by then. -
Yun seems to understand the situation very well. Gal does want to have more "flings" before she settle.
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Gal said maybe with the investment (time and money and effort), Guy should put on another gal and may able to appreciate him better. Is she telling you that she has lost feelings for you and is rejecting you softly?Originally posted by OutOfIdeasHusband:So, Guy can actually go and get rid of the wedding dinner already? Guy has not inform parents (both side).
Guy and Gal had a conversation. Gal is still angry about the outing nite. Gal feels Guy too controlling. Guy said control is a strong word. Concern is what he wanted. Control is dictating what she can or cannot do.
Gal said she wanted the freedom to go out without reporting back to someone. She wants to be able to go out with guy and not afraid the guy will be jealous. each can go out and have fun without reporting.
Guy ask, if Guy go out with other gal without reporting, will she be ok. No reply.
Gal said maybe with the investment (time and money and effort), Guy should put on another gal and may able to appreciate him better.
Both have taken each other for granted. Guy wanted to have a better conversation. Gal still angry. So guy don't want to talk till gal is not so angry.
Guy will be sad and very sad if it turns out to be a divorce.
A counsel meeting has been arranged this friday. Hope to have a clearer view by then.
I hope you dun put too much hope into this marriage for someone who does not love you a lot. It appears that she thinks you do not trust her a lot. She does not need to report to you. -
Trust is to be earned, not given. Guy does trust the Gal.
Guy is now very confused. Gal had did this to Guy during ROM and now this. Guy knows Gal very prone to fren influence. So Guy thinking if this had got anything to do with fren influence. -
Girl's obviously the irresponsible, unstable type and the Guy should know. Yet, with wide open eyes he decides to go through ROM with her........ Mistake #1.
Arranging for wedding dinner - mistake #2
Getting HDB flat - Mistake #3
Wah lan eh, this Guy had better smash his dead against a wall for being the idiot!!
The girl's obviously toying with this Guy to see how far she can get her way wif him. Now, the Guy's in such deep shit as he cannot split wif her without obtaining a divorce which will involve some legal fees...... HDB flat will cost even more money for him when they divorce.
Best thing for the guy to do now is get away from her as fast as he can. If it means a divorce, den just grit his teeth and go through wif it. If have to pay alimony, just pay lor.
HDB flat can be sold back to HDB upon proof of divorce (decree absolute). Will probably be sold at a loss.
Guy will lose lots of money but he'll at leasre regain his own self esteem and dignity. Never mind the monetary loss. Take it as payment of school fees. Money can always be earned back........
As for the girl, I'll wish that she get aids and suffer the rest of her life!
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*post deleted*
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I don't usually disagree with Yun, but what she's said would apply more easily if it were a pre-ROM situation. Let's face it - this girl's entered into what's effectively a contract and now doesn't wish to accept its implicit conditions. What's to say that she's willing to hold up her end of any bargain?
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Originally posted by OutOfIdeasHusband:Yun seems to understand the situation very well. Gal does want to have more "flings" before she settle. When she was younger, she probably missed all the drama-mama involving the possible men in her life. This has resulted in a certain unaccomplished void, as if she has yet to experience that sort of thrill. And she being thrill-hungry and the gradually understanding of femininity, she will grow to seek such adventures to replenish the void BEFORE she present her commitment in this marriage.
She is unfazed by the risk of losing stability/security and prefers to live for the moment.
This is the core personality of people struck by individualism (Uranus) and that usually render someone relatively unmarriageable.
I do not suggest having to compromise on her stand of having the 'position' to date other guys openly and the man blatantly accepting all that nonsense. If she is not ready for marriage, then she is not ready. Never compromise marriage because someone isn't ready for it - it is like love being forced upon our throat just because we are in a relationship. Marriage doesn't grow from that manner.
P.S: In gaming sense, if marriage is a different realm (with more difficult monsters to battle) compared to BGR, it probably means that she has yet to acquire enough 'experience points' to have access to that world. Forcefully placed, she will probably be slaughtered by the high level demonic denizen found there.
Cheers -
Originally posted by Gedanken:I don't usually disagree with Yun, but what she's said would apply more easily if it were a pre-ROM situation. Let's face it - this girl's entered into what's effectively a contract and now doesn't wish to accept its implicit conditions. What's to say that she's willing to hold up her end of any bargain? I understand your part about cutting loses.
But I believed that the man wouldn't give up unless he was left with zero alternatives or solutions.
I reckon this has yet to come - therefore as long as something could possibly be done, he would attempt first, before taking the easier way out, which is to null the contract.
Cheers -
I think there are many factors that you have mentioned regarding the result that has happened today. But in one way or another they are all linked to one cause: the girl has low feelings of attraction for the guy or her feelings simply faded away.Originally posted by Yunhaier: When she was younger, she probably missed all the drama-mama involving the possible men in her life. This has resulted in a certain unaccomplished void, as if she has yet to experience that sort of thrill. And she being thrill-hungry and the gradually understanding of femininity, she will grow to seek such adventures to replenish the void BEFORE she present her commitment in this marriage.
She is unfazed by the risk of losing stability/security and prefers to live for the moment.
This is the core personality of people struck by individualism (Uranus) and that usually render someone relatively unmarriageable.
I do not suggest having to compromise on her stand of having the 'position' to date other guys openly and the man blatantly accepting all that nonsense. If she is not ready for marriage, then she is not ready. Never compromise marriage because someone isn't ready for it - it is like love being forced upon our throat just because we are in a relationship. Marriage doesn't grow from that manner.
P.S: In gaming sense, if marriage is a different realm (with more difficult monsters to battle) compared to BGR, it probably means that she has yet to acquire enough 'experience points' to have access to that world. Forcefully placed, she will probably be slaughtered by the high level demonic denizen found there.
Cheers
Notice how she wants to push the guy away with subtleties, using clues and hints. No matter how low her feelings are, she will not tell the guy "I have no feelings for you anymore''. A girl with very high feelings of attraction for a guy will not want to date any other guy, period. -
Nope, nothing to do with friends' influence. If friends influence, she would not have become your girlfriend in the first place. Worse, if she is easily influenced by friends, then she is not mature and you do not want her anyway.Originally posted by OutOfIdeasHusband:Trust is to be earned, not given. Guy does trust the Gal.
Guy is now very confused. Gal had did this to Guy during ROM and now this. Guy knows Gal very prone to fren influence. So Guy thinking if this had got anything to do with fren influence.
She gave you an ultimate stunner with '' She's not sure if He is the one for him''. That's something to think about. -
Originally posted by dokono:I think there are many factors that you have mentioned regarding the result that has happened today. But in one way or another they are all linked to one cause: the girl has low feelings of attraction for the guy or her feelings simply faded away.
Notice how she wants to push the guy away with subtleties, using clues and hints. No matter how low her feelings are, she will not tell the guy "I have no feelings for you anymore''. A girl with very high feelings of attraction for a guy will not want to date any other guy, period. I do not see it as a complete lost of feelings more than I see it as raging conflicts within her personality.
She is like a spirted horse and marriage is like trying tame this wild horse. The horse represents her personality: independent, liberal and fun loving. She probably sees marriage as a LOST of those personalities, which she highly regard as critical essence inside her realm of individualism.
She is familar with the personality archetype and relationship style that her man has taught her; stable, orderly, traditional, secured and whatever that blends well with those stuff. But she desire to seek new environment; something unpredictable, raw, unnerving, exciting and different, so that she could probably conclude her BGR days and move onto a 'marriage mindset', without having to regret that she didn't had enough fun previously.
My gut feeling tells me that she desire those experience, but not to the extend of losing him completely. Somehow, her action seemed to be telling me that 'It is not that she doesn't want this relationship, just that she isn't ready for marriage'. Even when she suggested nulling the ROM previously, she didn't walk out on him, which she could ACTUALLY do something like that if it was suggested that her feelings has faded into nothingness. The TS also mentioned that the woman didn't stop trying to foster better relationship (if you don't like someone, would you even agree to move in under one roof? To travel and do all sort of things together in spirit of fun?).
P.S: Is she a Gemini, Libra, Aquarius, Aries, Leo or Sagittarius?
Cheers -
It's possible that a girl can be with you but her heart might not with you. That's my point. Yep.Originally posted by Yunhaier: I do not see it as a complete lost of feelings more than I see it as raging conflicts within her personality.
She is like a spirted horse and marriage is like trying tame this wild horse. The horse represents her personality: independent, liberal and fun loving. She probably sees marriage as a LOST of those personalities, which she highly regard as critical essence inside her realm of individualism.
She is familar with the personality archetype and relationship style that her man has taught her; stable, orderly, traditional, secured and whatever that blends well with those stuff. But she desire to seek new environment; something unpredictable, raw, unnerving, exciting and different, so that she could probably conclude her BGR days and move onto a 'marriage mindset', without having to regret that she didn't had enough fun previously.
My gut feeling tells me that she desire those experience, but not to the extend of losing him completely. Somehow, her action seemed to be telling me that 'It is not that she doesn't want this relationship, just that she isn't ready for marriage'. Even when she suggested nulling the ROM previously, she didn't walk out on him, which she could ACTUALLY do something like that if it was suggested that her feelings has faded into nothingness. The TS also mentioned that the woman didn't stop trying to foster better relationship (if you don't like someone, would you even agree to move in under one roof? To travel and do all sort of things together in spirit of fun?).
P.S: Is she a Gemini, Libra, Aquarius, Aries, Leo or Sagittarius?
Cheers -
Yun describe her very well. Yun encounter such gals before?
Guy has handwritten a letter.
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Dear Gal,
Its been a long time since I wrote to you. It had been a difficult time for you and me. I miss your smile, laughter around the house. I always look forward to seeing you, holding your hand, hugging you at the end of everyday.
Guy is not a romantic guy. We both know. I appreciate that you took time and effort in getting the lazy me out in the sun. I enjoyed every outing we had at ECP, UBin, even the short squash session. I understand that you make an effort to stay home and watched TV with me.
Through the years, we changed unknowingly. Life seems boring. Spark seems to disappear. We have taken each other for granted. We failed to create the special moment, just for the other. I am obsessed with the computer game. You are unhappy, but yet you let me play. I want to say, "I'm sorry".
I know you are still angry about the incident last week. I did not meant to sound angry. Maybe I have expressed my concern in a wrong way.
When some things happen in a relationship, its not just 1 person's problem. Both did something wrong. You are not selfish. On the contrary, you gave me love, freedom, and your trust in me. I am always wondering, would my love be able to exceed what you have given me, if love can be measured.
I do not know how this current problem will end. We have gone through many ups and downs. I just want you to know, you have change my life, and I am happy that it is you. No regrets.
From the time we started out, I have loved you ... till now.
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ohhhh......so touching one ah.....
I dont understand something though.
ROM is marriage right?
So you two are already married.
Getting the traditional dinner is merely the celebtration or symbolisation.
From the way she thinks, I think she is still not taking herself as a real wife in a real marriage.
Hmm, I have a tips for you.
Listen, she's 29 right?
Soon she will hit 30.
This is a good timing, right now.
You ask some of her girl friends......to help you out.....ask them to advice your wife, to settle down. Her friends will advice her that time is ticking against her, that she should really settle down and choose a good steady loving husband.
Choose her girl friends who are already married, happily married.
Ok good luck. -
well Yun has given u some direction and u already composed a letter for her so good luck on tat... my word for u is dun rush for the wedding dinner... infact abort till she reali wans it and she is ready to commit fulltime... as for late nite sessions, let her be, jz let her know if she need a lift, call u... she's jz not having the right mentality so let her roam n fly... when she's tired of all that she'll come back... jz let her know u care tats all... good luck...
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ROM. Legally Married. No need Wedding Dinner as its just custom.
Gal Working, no children. No need give Maintenance. By the way, we dont call it alimony in Singapore.
Both in a HDB flat. Possibly with a grant issue with HDB, but judging that they are together in that flat nearing 5 years, they should be able to sell the flat soon.
The guy sounds real nice, but then.....it may be that the story was only told from one side and we do not have a clear picture of whats really going on.
Looks like divorce is in the cards. No chance of annulment of marriage since it already pass 3 years since the ROM.
Try for a separation first. Physically detach the female from the household. Once the female has a taste of being single and cheated by the loads of men on the outside, then she will regret losing her husband and most likely would want to come back.
IF she found her True Love and dont want to come back. The Guy is also then be able to be free to find his True Love isnt it? -
Gal is happy that Guy wrote, but Gal feels only when problem arise, then each other will try to do something special for him/her.
Gal had wanted to go to pre-marriage long ago, but Guy does not want. Only when problems, then start going counselling. Guy feels guilty about it now. Maybe Guy and Gal definition of marriage is different.
Gal is skeptical of upcoming counsel. -
I am going to be crude and direct in this.
I think the Guy is not in control of the situation, ie not having Gal attracted to him and Gal being obedient all the time. Their relationship is too one-sided. The Guy has always been giving in to the Gal, giving her presents, giving her a shelter, a "daddy" sort of care.
"Guy might tried too hard in pleasing Gal." - BINGO!
"Gal does want to have more "flings" before she settle." - Trust your gut feelings. Gal has been dating other guys, and perhaps even slept with them.
"Gal said maybe with the investment (time and money and effort), Guy should put on another gal and may able to appreciate him better." - Guy should do what Gal tells him to. Gal was being kind when she said that. She has REJECTED Guy.
"A girl with very high feelings of attraction for a guy will not want to date any other guy, period." - Pure Gold! Very true!
"Guy is hoping thru the counselling, Gal will know what she really want. be it separate, or whatever." Counselling is a left-brain logical process which sounds right to guys but to girls, its totally a waste of time. You cannot tell a girl to be attracted to you when she is not. You can list down all the things you have done for her, all the sacrifices you had made and its still useless. Once she lost the attraction, thats it.
Here is what Guy should do:
- Continue to go for this Fri counselling. Pay attention to her body language at the counselling. If she appears uneasy, always figgiting and not paying attention. Thats it. Make it the last counselling Guy has with her.
- Dump all of your computer games. Completing a game in record time will not give you a girl!
- Go to gym, wear trendy clothes, go out with friends more. Be different. be fashionable. Be an attractor of girls.
- Continue to have sex with her. Guy should go all out to learn all the different sex techniques and practice with her while she is still available for practice (aka before divorce). This has 2 benefits. First, if guy can give her incredible pleasure, there may be chance that she will be attracted to Guy again. Second, it will attract the other future girls that Guy will sleep with.
I rather be single than be a slave who is always giving and not receiving. Period. -
Odd thing is that you view the wedding dinner to be 'official word' to declare that you guys are considered married. ROM is the main deal, not the wedding dinner. Wedding dinner is just extra bit to throw money away, and invite relatives you don't really give a damn about.
ROM is the big deal in which you exchange vows to be husband and wife, not the perfunctionary dinner arrangement.
You people sure have weird thinking. -
Hey, it's already been said and the breach of contract has been highlighted. The again, if someone wants to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, what can you do?Originally posted by pwnz0r:Odd thing is that you view the wedding dinner to be 'official word' to declare that you guys are considered married. ROM is the main deal, not the wedding dinner. Wedding dinner is just extra bit to throw money away, and invite relatives you don't really give a damn about.
ROM is the big deal in which you exchange vows to be husband and wife, not the perfunctionary dinner arrangement.
You people sure have weird thinking. -
Guy is not thinking of wedding dinner as official word. Guy think dinner is more for family and relatives. Parents would want to have it, its a way of showing appreciation to the parents, that they need not worry about the kids anymore, even though they still worry.Originally posted by pwnz0r:Odd thing is that you view the wedding dinner to be 'official word' to declare that you guys are considered married. ROM is the main deal, not the wedding dinner. Wedding dinner is just extra bit to throw money away, and invite relatives you don't really give a damn about.
ROM is the big deal in which you exchange vows to be husband and wife, not the perfunctionary dinner arrangement.
You people sure have weird thinking.
Problem here is not the wedding dinner. Its the gal's commitment. -
Uhhh, buddy, don't take this the wrong way but I think you've got much bigger things than relatives to worry about right now. The situation's fundamentally flawed, and I fear that anything you do would be like slapping a Band-Aid on a cancer patient.