How do i noe if a ger likes mi or not?
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Originally posted by curiousOrange:
In fact, that's where the contradiction comes in although I get where you're coming from. You're effectively advocating a zero sum game with virtually no risk exposure - hence, the belief in the guy should be the one doing the initiation, yet emphasising on the need to protect himself.
I admire your train of thoughts.
First of all, I will clarify that what IÂ’ve written so far has nothing to do with whether a guy should initiate or not.
A guy must do the initiation.
Not because of some romantic idea that if two people are mutually interested, things should flow naturally.
I guess IÂ’m not like you in that sense.
A guy does the initiation simply because he has the balls to do so.Originally posted by curiousOrange:
Putting it bluntly, I find your perspective rather thought-provoking. That said, just let me clarify on some issues which I suppose you haven't clearly understood.
When I write about leaving out exceptions and protecting your heart. It applies to the initial stage.
Your take is this; one should not be too afraid to jump in.
One should not be too afraid to love.
Love and trust should flow naturally when both parties are mutually attracted.
I would like you to pause for a moment and ponder about this:
On what basis do you love this woman?
On what basis do you trust this person?
The gradual establishment of trust and loyalty over time is vital in any relationship.
By sticking to rather stringent criterions in the initial stage, you have almost guaranteed yourself a woman with good potential to be accommodating in a relationship.
This will make your life much easier when you have to maintain the relationship if you are thinking of something long term.
I'm in full agreement that the guy should take the initiative to woo the lady. That said, I'm also of the opinion (and it's pretty certain I'm not exactly a believer in love at first sight or into the idea of picking a complete stranger up for a relationship - picking a stranger up for a fling is quite another matter, but that's a story for another day
) that an overtly passive woman doesn't make a good partner for a relationship. As a matter of fact, it's precisely during the wooing stage (i.e. the stage before you formalize the relationship and both parties, implicitly or explicitly, understand they have a commitment to each other as more than just friends) that one should really observe and trust your gut instinct on where this relationship (or lack thereof) could potentially be heading. It's precisely also during this phase where you'd most need to let nature take its course IMO - for most, the concept of having nature delivering a verdict on the destiny of a relationship could stem from anything ranging from whether there's chemistry between the pair (i.e. for talking, common interests, etc) to whether one's partner actually remotely fits the stereotype of what one wants in a partner. This is what I'd call the wooing stage.
Quite simply, at this stage, if a woman never takes the initiative to initiate a phone conversation or a date (I don't mean the very first date or phone call, but rather, it'd be ridiculous if after going out for a couple of months, it's still the guy initiating everything), it's the end of the road as far as I'm concerned (and I'm sure I'm not the only guy who thinks that way). From my experience and observations of those around me (I mean people I know), things that end at this stage invariably yield a few types of women (note I'm only talking about women who actually have an interest in the guy here) - and mostly, I'd say having a mindset whereby a certain degree of shyness/reservation that a woman should never initiate anything forms the bulk of the lot(the other group forming the bulk of this lot would be those playing hard-to-get) who fall short here. In truth, in such instances, much as many may not share my views, I actually do not sympathise with the women who think they have been led on by guys and if anything, it's the guys who have done right by them. The reason being, most of my mates who pull the plug at this point very rightly cites potential lack of communication and incompatibility as long-term obstacles that could potentially rock the relationship - to a very large extent, I have to agree with that for there're obviously some traits and characteristics which you cannot enter into a relationship without them being clearly established (regardless of how much you'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt).
Obviously, I'm in complete agreement with you that, should the abovementioned issues be redressed, then the ball should be on the guy's court to seal the deal and formalise the relationship (be it through formally asking for the woman's hand or simply holding her hands and sealing the deal with a kiss). And that's where the wooing stops and dating begins...
On a sidenote, I think it's pretty hard for a guy to be romantic to a woman who falls in the above category for ultimately, things just do not flow well enough (in most cases) for the bloke to feel appreciated enough or be given the encouragement to offer the brand of romanticism the lady craves. If both parties decide to hold back, what ultimately gives?
After all, as with any other types of relationship, it takes two hands to clap.Originally posted by curiousOrange:
Admittedly, much of what we have discussed centres very much on the character of the man and woman in question and what they both want in each other. Obviously, if you put an egoist and a sycophant together, then chances are your method would stand a better chance of pulling a deal off - for ultimately, ironically, an insecure woman who looks excessively to a man for security would, in all probability, satisfy the equally-insecure bloke's need for a validation and endorsement of his self-worth (in such a case, although both parties are insecure, they pretty much look for validation of their self-worth in different, yet complimentary ways).
Gradually, you will get to understand this person more.
ThatÂ’s when you allow exceptions to come in, when you find that you really have faith and trust her enough to do so.
Protecting yourself in the initial stage does not undermine the more mature form of love that will develop in the later stage.
I see where you are coming from as well.
It sounds calculated. It sounds mechanical.
It doesnÂ’t feel like love at the initial stage.
Love ought to be reckless, preferably with a nice tinge of pain involved.
But on the other hand, if you donÂ’t put yourself in the first place, no one will.
That would obviously not work for a relationship between two confident individuals. -
How come in shows i always see those rather plump girls doing this?Originally posted by Stoat:when she tink u nt looking she smile secretly to herself and play wif her hair
Then when the guy is taken away , she throws the girly temper. -
FYI, what crysantimum, me only take Aloe Vera.Originally posted by ifish:u obviously have no idea who u give ur crysantimun too
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Hmmm u look like one that had been hurt badly by guys in the past...Originally posted by angel7030:Please lah, what era already, still flower here and there. Today gal dun fancy flower one lah. Show money better ya, dun waste money on flower ok
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Seems like nowadays guys are treating relationship/wooing/courtship as some form of business deal or mathematical formulae as such.
Understand this!!!
There is no such thing as a SPECIFIC method to determine if a girl is interested in the guy. However it very easy to see if a guy is hot for a girl...even blind people can see it too!
How dumb can a guy be if he only relies on his EYES (Based on what he is seeing) to decide if the girl is interested in him?
A normal human being has five senses, and those senses generates a sixth sense called INSTINCT which eventually will relate to a overall feeling called EMOTION. Use your human INSTINCT plus EMOTION to encourage yourselves that there is LOVE within yourselves and there is still alot of LOVE within yourselves that you are able to utilise for sharing and benefitting the people around you who deserves it and including the special person whom you would also like him/her to enjoy your LOVE.
Whoever is not able to LOVE another unconditionally, will NEVER deserve to enjoy the LOVE of another.
Good Luck. -
You deserve multiple high fives.Originally posted by walesa:In truth, in such instances, much as many may not share my views, I actually do not sympathise with the women who think they have been led on by guys and if anything, it's the guys who have done right by them.
I do not advocate a game with no risk exposure, it would be insane to even think of achieving that.Originally posted by walesa:You're effectively advocating a zero sum game with virtually no risk exposure - hence, the belief in the guy should be the one doing the initiation, yet emphasising on the need to protect himself.
I do not think it is a game.
Regarding your question of how a person can be doing the initiation, yet protect himself at the same time.
Risk sets in when you invest too much of your time and feelings too early.
Maybe in your book, initiation implies that a guy has to be her exclusive chauffer, spend sleepless nights thinking whether he should confess and send sweet messages to her.
I will be absolutely frank about it.
This “nice and gentle” guy who does all that is not me at all.
Neither is he you.
Aren’t you the one who advocate “letting nature takes its course”?
My opinion is simple. Escalation of her interest does not involve investing your feelings heavily and lamenting to the whole world when she does not reciprocate.
It comes mainly from what you already have within.
It comes from what you have done to improve yourself and initiation is a display of value(confidence, humour, patience, interaction) to her.
If she is showing signs of interest, go for it.
If she is giving unrecognizable signals, pull back rather than invest more feelings (time and effort) into it.
Pulling back does not mean pulling the plug as you suggested.
You are still treating this person the same way. Just that if she really has high interest in you, she will have to come out from her shell and gives you the stronger signals you are waiting for if she wants a second date offer.
If she couldnÂ’t be arsed to do so or if she is some ultra passive and shy creature, you should really ask yourselfÂ…why do you bother?
Regardless, your heart is still protected.
In an ideal world, we can all rely heavily on our gut to tell us what to do and what to avoid.
Gut relates to your life experiences.
Would you tell a man who is 25 yrs old, has no experience in making an approach to rely on his gutÂ….and how nature would eventually take its course?
In this context,
Girl said she'd rather go to a birthday party.
There are no counter offers.
Girl couldnÂ’t be arsed to do anything after the incident, so he makes another offer.
My gut tells me this is not a sign of high interest.
His gut is probably telling him the same. He wouldnÂ’t be posting here if he has confidence that everything is rosy and sweet at this point.
So did he listen to his gut? Or is he trying to allow exceptions to set in so that he can invest even more? -
all gers does tis in real life...pretty n sweet girls does it more. mus have all or nearly all cos if 1 sign can mean interested in sum1 else nt uuu.Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:How come in shows i always see those rather plump girls doing this?
Then when the guy is taken away , she throws the girly temper.
here is sum more...
she tok to u always lean forward so her face nearer to urs n look up at u.
when she lean forward in front of u she sum time 'forget' to cover her blouse.
if she noe u peek inside she became shy shy n dun look at u.
she start standing closer n closer to u...sum time her body 'accidently' rub againt u.
when u ask her sumting even if she is talking to sumone else she will ignore him n smile sweetly at u.
she always agree wif u.
when u go outing wif her...sum time she grab ur arm n press her bodie. 
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Originally posted by Stoat:all gers does tis in real life...pretty n sweet girls does it more. mus have all or nearly all cos if 1 sign can mean interested in sum1 else nt uuu.
here is sum more...
she tok to u always lean forward so her face nearer to urs n look up at u.
when she lean forward in front of u she sum time 'forget' to cover her blouse.
if she noe u peek inside she became shy shy n dun look at u.
she start standing closer n closer to u...sum time her body 'accidently' rub againt u.
when u ask her sumting even if she is talking to sumone else she will ignore him n smile sweetly at u.
she always agree wif u.
when u go outing wif her...sum time she grab ur arm n press her bodie.
I've seen girls during when , i look at her she looked back with a cute face . I was kinda startled when she did that. Or sometimes because im very tall , she looked up with a face that shows "yearning for love". Thats what i sense. -
OH, goodness, you people make relationship sound so complicated. I am seeing stars when I read the posts here. Stars, stars, but where is the moon?
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Moon blocked by the sun (lunar eclipse) .Originally posted by qlqq9:OH, goodness, you people make relationship sound so complicated. I am seeing stars when I read the posts here. Stars, stars, but where is the moon?
Actually relationships can be simple , its just how simple you want it to be. -
Yes and no. Depends on two parties in the relationship and on one party only. Communication is so important and necessary, without which there is really practically nothing but guessing game.Originally posted by Scania N113CRB luver:Moon blocked by the sun (lunar eclipse) .
Actually relationships can be simple , its just how simple you want it to be. -
Looking at it analytically, we're effectively tackling the same issue from different angles, coming to pretty much the same conclusion, aren't we? While the extent of risk exposure is subjective, what you're advocating is exactly the same as mine. While you go on about protecting your heart to ensure you do not invest any more energy and time into an unworthy relationship, I'm merely advocating the importance of picking up the key signals (much of which were covered in my first post in this thread) to ascertain if the investment is worthwhile.Originally posted by curiousOrange:I do not advocate a game with no risk exposure, it would be insane to even think of achieving that.
I do not think it is a game.
Regarding your question of how a person can be doing the initiation, yet protect himself at the same time.
Risk sets in when you invest too much of your time and feelings too early.
Maybe in your book, initiation implies that a guy has to be her exclusive chauffer, spend sleepless nights thinking whether he should confess and send sweet messages to her.
I will be absolutely frank about it.
This “nice and gentle” guy who does all that is not me at all.
Neither is he you.
Aren’t you the one who advocate “letting nature takes its course”?
If anything, I certainly see very much of myself in you. Obviously, to play the game well, you just can't force certain issues and let nature take its course - needless to say, the most consummate players in this game are those who are able to get by without compromising beyond limits (as would be the case with the 'nice guys' you cited).
While the ends pretty much justify the means on this count, the protection of one's heart is pretty much a manifestation of one's inner self. Like I've said all along, we pretty much share a similar consensus with regard towards ascertaining what a woman should do before the bloke takes things further, it's the rationale governing the actions of the bloke's actions that differ for you and me.Originally posted by curiousOrange:My opinion is simple. Escalation of her interest does not involve investing your feelings heavily and lamenting to the whole world when she does not reciprocate.
It comes mainly from what you already have within.
It comes from what you have done to improve yourself and initiation is a display of value(confidence, humour, patience, interaction) to her.
If she is showing signs of interest, go for it.
If she is giving unrecognizable signals, pull back rather than invest more feelings (time and effort) into it.
Pulling back does not mean pulling the plug as you suggested.
You are still treating this person the same way. Just that if she really has high interest in you, she will have to come out from her shell and gives you the stronger signals you are waiting for if she wants a second date offer.
If she couldnÂ’t be arsed to do so or if she is some ultra passive and shy creature, you should really ask yourselfÂ…why do you bother?
Regardless, your heart is still protected.
I suppose you can't fault those who choose to engage in this game with an objective of protecting his own heart, especially for those with the experience of failed relationships. That said, it's not hard to distinguish blokes who act the way they do because they're confident of what they can offer (in which case, it's a case of their self-belief governing their behaviour more than a need to mask their vulnerability) from those who are cautious for fear of investing in the wrong commodity (birds in this case ). Ultimately, over a sustained period, I still maintain it's the former who possesses an edge over the latter as far as the natural selection process goes.
While your logic ain't off the mark, I remain unconvinced this chap actually knows the girl well enough to judge her confidence level and how she prioritises things in her life (I've seen enough excess baggages in my time. By that, I mean birds who do actually have interest in a guy, but their overtly profound sense of insecurity and inferiority complex would dictate they can't neglect their long list of "friends" - where most are really just acquaintances who offer priceless companionship to kill loneliness and boredom instead of genuine friendships that will last a lifetime - even for someone who could potentially be a soulmate for a lifetime). Obviously, the fact that she hasn't actually gotten round to making a counter-offer in view of the two attempts she'd turned down could very much be down to the shyness/reservation which we'd mentioned earlier. Then again, you could be spot on as well. In essence, there're just too many uncertainties in this particular instance IMO to make any substantial conclusion that'd be remotely convincing beyond reasonable doubt.Originally posted by curiousOrange:In an ideal world, we can all rely heavily on our gut to tell us what to do and what to avoid.
Gut relates to your life experiences.
Would you tell a man who is 25 yrs old, has no experience in making an approach to rely on his gutÂ….and how nature would eventually take its course?
In this context,
Girl said she'd rather go to a birthday party.
There are no counter offers.
Girl couldnÂ’t be arsed to do anything after the incident, so he makes another offer.
My gut tells me this is not a sign of high interest.
His gut is probably telling him the same. He wouldnÂ’t be posting here if he has confidence that everything is rosy and sweet at this point.
So did he listen to his gut? Or is he trying to allow exceptions to set in so that he can invest even more?
It is on that very premise that I can't make much of what's going on in this particular instance. -
Originally posted by walesa:
let me surmarise.. u think he might be right, yet could be very wrong and u have no idea whats going on
While your logic ain't off the mark, I remain unconvinced this chap actually knows the girl well enough to judge her confidence level and how she prioritises things in her life (I've seen enough excess baggages in my time. By that, I mean birds who do actually have interest in a guy, but their overtly profound sense of insecurity and inferiority complex would dictate they can't neglect their long list of "friends" - where most are really just acquaintances who offer priceless companionship to kill loneliness and boredom [b]instead of genuine friendships that will last a lifetime - even for someone who could potentially be a soulmate for a lifetime). Obviously, the fact that she hasn't actually gotten round to making a counter-offer in view of the two attempts she'd turned down could very much be down to the shyness/reservation which we'd mentioned earlier. Then again, you could be spot on as well. In essence, there're just too many uncertainties in this particular instance IMO to make any substantial conclusion that'd be remotely convincing beyond reasonable doubt.
It is on that very premise that I can't make much of what's going on in this particular instance.[/b] -
JUST DO IT! -
Huh! woei! me got a lovely bf ok, but let be realistic, bf used to buy flowers for me during eventful days like valentine, birthday etc etc... all very expensive, as a gf who love him, i told him to give me money instead of spending on flower, for flower, if he can pick it up in the garden or park will be more truly and enough for me. Those money collected shall be save in our joint account for future need.Originally posted by EarlNeo:Hmmm u look like one that had been hurt badly by guys in the past...
Be realistic, flowers last only few days, hard earn dollars and cents kept, can alway be there for the taking. -
hello all,
I am in the same situation as TS. I am the one always initiating the date. been out for more than 6 times alone..even smses i am the one initiating.
This goes on for abt 4 months. She is the busy sort that can only go out in during weekend.
but recently, 3 straights weeks was rejected for dates. Every reject will have a reason which i tink make sense to me.
Even thou was rejected, she will nev initiate alt date. I am at total loss now..carry on or move on....zzz -
Hi, another person in the same situation as mi..... At least you all have been out alone for 6 times.... me still haven 1st time official date, only meeting her for a few times but a short time only. mi asking her out again this wk for a movie, i asked her if she wan to watch the rat movie last wk and she says she is ok with it, then i ask her to go on fri. but i am scare tat she might have something on again..... She is also a person tat is a bit busy during wkdays and can only go out on wkends.... I also not sure how to proceed.....
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As a suggestion, you could probably gauge her interest by asking her to suggest an alternate arrangement (ie.a day convenient for her) when she rejects you (regardless of reason). That way, you wouldn't need to worry about her lack of initiative conveying a lack of interest and you're, in all probability, going to get the answer you want. I mean, if despite prompting her to suggest an alternate arrangement, she doesn't respond or is non-committal, it pretty much says a lot, doesn't it?Originally posted by seaworld:hello all,
I am in the same situation as TS. I am the one always initiating the date. been out for more than 6 times alone..even smses i am the one initiating.
This goes on for abt 4 months. She is the busy sort that can only go out in during weekend.
but recently, 3 straights weeks was rejected for dates. Every reject will have a reason which i tink make sense to me.
Even thou was rejected, she will nev initiate alt date. I am at total loss now..carry on or move on....zzz
This method would let you know whether the 6 times you went out with her were mere outings or dates to her - personally, I don't think this method would work well for daniu82 as he has barely gone out with her. In your case, however, the response would pretty much give you the answer you want.
PS : On a sidenote, how exactly do you ask her out for dates? What's the exact line you'd pop? Note that the way of asking could mean a great deal between it being a date and just an outing. -
For mi, i will msg her to ask if she is free on sat..... If she says she has something on then i will tell her tat i ask will ask her again next time.... If she says she is free then i will personally call her on fri to confirm the meeting place and time.... I intend to ask her out for movie this wkend, hope i will succeed this time....
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I simply ask her if she wanna go out on weekends for dinner or watever ..then on that day itself i would call and ask if wanted movie, shopping or..just dinner and window shopping...the last few dates usually ok, not much prob.a steady yes and i will make the arrangement (usually i make one).those 3 weeks like so busy for her..Originally posted by walesa:As a suggestion, you could probably gauge her interest by asking her to suggest an alternate arrangement (ie.a day convenient for her) when she rejects you (regardless of reason). That way, you wouldn't need to worry about her lack of initiative conveying a lack of interest and you're, in all probability, going to get the answer you want. I mean, if despite prompting her to suggest an alternate arrangement, she doesn't respond or is non-committal, it pretty much says a lot, doesn't it?
This method would let you know whether the 6 times you went out with her were mere outings or dates to her - personally, I don't think this method would work well for daniu82 as he has barely gone out with her. In your case, however, the response would pretty much give you the answer you want.
PS : On a sidenote, how exactly do you ask her out for dates? What's the exact line you'd pop? Note that the way of asking could mean a great deal between it being a date and just an outing.
but nev once she initiated anything b4..zzz...date or outing i dun know..but once i knew she went out with her friends in the morning and later rush to meet me for dinner,...
and she ever send me a BD card, the card with small hearts and love shape on it..would any ger send friend BD card with heart/love shape?
seems like her actions telling the otherway round...zzz -
So, to quell your doubts, why don't you just ask her to propose another date where she'll be free the next time she turns you down when you initiate a date? From there, you can pretty much gauge things...Originally posted by seaworld:I simply ask her if she wanna go out on weekends for dinner or watever ..then on that day itself i would call and ask if wanted movie, shopping or..just dinner and window shopping...the last few dates usually ok, not much prob.a steady yes and i will make the arrangement (usually i make one).those 3 weeks like so busy for her..
but nev once she initiated anything b4..zzz...date or outing i dun know..but once i knew she went out with her friends in the morning and later rush to meet me for dinner,...
and she ever send me a BD card, the card with small hearts and love shape on it..would any ger send friend BD card with heart/love shape?
seems like her actions telling the otherway round...zzz -
Hi seaworld, any improvement between you and her?? I am going to out with her today for the 1st official date..... Hope to improve my r/s with her....
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good luck bro...all the best....Originally posted by daniu82:Hi seaworld, any improvement between you and her?? I am going to out with her today for the 1st official date..... Hope to improve my r/s with her....
for me i give up liao.....i try to ask her out this weekend but woot..."got something on, cannot make it.." zzz... 4th time in a row...
somemore now is sch holiday..she a teacher btw....totally got no time for me..as good as telling me to give up...zzz
gonna not sms/call her or even on msn, will wait for her to call me if she "knows", else as i said i will forget it..
moving on.....looking for new target.... -
jia you!! go and chase after her...
but if she had a bf.. then up to a limit....
hm.... -
I got a problem regarding this ger..... We went out on sat but i tink i made her angry..... I met her personally on sun to apologize and she seems ok.... Now i msg her on mon and she did not reply after 5 hrs, last time this nvr happen b4..... then i didn't msg her for 2 days .... Today i tried to msg her again and she did not reply again.... I feel something bad is happening..... maybe she dislike mi already..... I have been bothered by this matter this whole wk.... Wat should i do now??