From a religious perspective - if one does not have a god within himself or herself - one is never going to find god in a temple/church or mosque .
If one has it - its always a prayer of gratitude, if one lacks (godliness within) - its always a prayer of supplication.
Love - the same!
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:someone has to start breaking the cycle.
if i may suggest, you put aside your ego for 1 week. do everything you can to show that you love and care for her. buy her flowers, write a card, spend quality time with her (i know not easy)
do everything to show that you love her. then see how she respond. my guess is, she will start showing respect.
hmmm..is this an ego problem?
allow me to clarify...the last time i put aside my ego was last year, i thought my depression is the cause of my problem. the psychriatist even told me that once i feel better, i'll be able to see things differently and not so negatively. i believe the doctor.
the medication did help or maybe i put aside my ego (as you put it). i told myself i can be happy with this marriage (but take note i've no feeling for her still)
the below events happened not in 1 week but over a couple of weeks or months
1. I sent her a bouquet of roses on valentine day. - got scolded for wasting money and said she don't like flowers or jewellery. don't send her such thing next time (btw, i sent her a small gift every year on valentine day)
2. Fine. i told her we go out out to watch a movie - no, she prefer to watch local TV drama
3. Ok, let's go have a nice dinner every Fri night - no, too expensive and it's crowded during dinner time at the shopping mall
4. Okay, let go for a tour - she agreed...but in the end, say it's too expensive....(we were planning to go HK). I insisted that i'll pay for the trip and it's just once a year - No, i told you it's too expensive!
5. Okaayy....what do you want to do then? I just want you to sit right here with me..don't go anywhere....(help me!)
I don't think i've any ego in this relationship....i hardly show my anger in this relationship at all. after repetitively getting emotionally bash by her all the time...and letting her do it all the time. In fact, I feel like a coward nowadays for living this kind of life.
and they give u $5000 i think
but that 5k will just be gone just by paying the hospital bills
Originally posted by GreyMeow:hmmm..is this an ego problem?
allow me to clarify...the last time i put aside my ego was last year, i thought my depression is the cause of my problem. the psychriatist even told me that once i feel better, i'll be able to see things differently and not so negatively. i believe the doctor.
the medication did help or maybe i put aside my ego (as you put it). i told myself i can be happy with this marriage (but take note i've no feeling for her still)
the below events happened not in 1 week but over a couple of weeks or months
1. I sent her a bouquet of roses on valentine day. - got scolded for wasting money and said she don't like flowers or jewellery. don't send her such thing next time (btw, i sent her a small gift every year on valentine day)
2. Fine. i told her we go out out to watch a movie - no, she prefer to watch local TV drama
3. Ok, let's go have a nice dinner every Fri night - no, too expensive and it's crowded during dinner time at the shopping mall
4. Okay, let go for a tour - she agreed...but in the end, say it's too expensive....(we were planning to go HK). I insisted that i'll pay for the trip and it's just once a year - No, i told you it's too expensive!
5. Okaayy....what do you want to do then? I just want you to sit right here with me..don't go anywhere....(help me!)
I don't think i've any ego in this relationship....i hardly show my anger in this relationship at all. after repetitively getting emotionally bash by her all the time...and letting her do it all the time. In fact, I feel like a coward nowadays for living this kind of life.
see the clip i send you. it will solve most of the things you said.
just ignore the word god/jesus
To be crude, if all this is cuasing u untold anxiety, leave the marriage, its better to save urself then save a marriage, however, take responsibility, its not the numbers that matters lar, its the quality, dont leave cos of her, leave cos u are dying , u think someone would save u - i doubt so, only ur choices that free u mite do it, ignore if it ....
Originally posted by GreyMeow:hmmm..is this an ego problem?
allow me to clarify...the last time i put aside my ego was last year, i thought my depression is the cause of my problem. the psychriatist even told me that once i feel better, i'll be able to see things differently and not so negatively. i believe the doctor.
the medication did help or maybe i put aside my ego (as you put it). i told myself i can be happy with this marriage (but take note i've no feeling for her still)
the below events happened not in 1 week but over a couple of weeks or months
1. I sent her a bouquet of roses on valentine day. - got scolded for wasting money and said she don't like flowers or jewellery. don't send her such thing next time (btw, i sent her a small gift every year on valentine day)
2. Fine. i told her we go out out to watch a movie - no, she prefer to watch local TV drama
3. Ok, let's go have a nice dinner every Fri night - no, too expensive and it's crowded during dinner time at the shopping mall
4. Okay, let go for a tour - she agreed...but in the end, say it's too expensive....(we were planning to go HK). I insisted that i'll pay for the trip and it's just once a year - No, i told you it's too expensive!
5. Okaayy....what do you want to do then? I just want you to sit right here with me..don't go anywhere....(help me!)
I don't think i've any ego in this relationship....i hardly show my anger in this relationship at all. after repetitively getting emotionally bash by her all the time...and letting her do it all the time. In fact, I feel like a coward nowadays for living this kind of life.
You are depressed because you do not have a life. You are not enjoying your life. You cannot be happy if you do not "do you thing". You do not "do what makes you happy."
You cannot have a happy marriage if you are not happy. You cannot be happy if you do not make yourself happy.
What can you do to make yourself happy? You need to find out what makes you happy and to do it.
Just ignore the wife first. Make yourself happy first. Ask her to find ways to make herself happy without you, without you in the picture, like going out with her friends.
So first things first. Make yourself happy doing the things that make you happy first. Ignore the wife if she disapproves. Tell her "just too bad, I like doing this/that, it makes me happy".
why are you convincing him to leave her..
zzz
send her to AWARE. They will help you settle her.
Originally posted by youyayu:i don't think you are ready to give up on her. you still love her..
its just that both of you are finding faults with each others. and have already lost the loving feeling.
couples, husband and wife. have to keep falling in love with each other over and over again
if you don't love her you won't even bother to post here...
Really? I put up this post for selfish reasons. I want to know a way out of this relationship but I just don't know how to put it across to her that she will accept it and that she won't do anything silly.
Also, if I love her...why do I cry every evening at the end of my work day and I ve to go back to the house and face her? Seriously, I cried. I cried in anger the life I'm leading and of lacking the courage to end it.
I do agree I'm find faults with her nowadays but I've no courage to tell her.
How did I love her in the first place and when did I stop loving her? I seriously don't remember any more or care. I tried to forget as much as possible nowadays. Also, my depression narrow down my view and perception of things alot (negatively)...and again I'm too tired to do much nowadays...just hope the day end quickly and weekend don't come.
AndrewPKYap = well aptly put, beggarly love has nothing to share lar, its only pretensions lar
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
You are depressed because you do not have a life. You are not enjoying your life. You cannot be happy if you do not "do you thing". You do not "do what makes you happy."
You cannot have a happy marriage if you are not happy. You cannot be happy if you do not make yourself happy.
What can you do to make yourself happy? You need to find out what makes you happy and to do it.
Just ignore the wife first. Make yourself happy first. Ask her to find ways to make herself happy without you, without you in the picture, like going out with her friends.
So first things first. Make yourself happy doing the things that make you happy first. Ignore the wife if she disapproves. Tell her "just too bad, I like doing this/that, it makes me happy".
okay, i ve to think about it.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:Really? I put up this post for selfish reasons. I want to know a way out of this relationship but I just don't know how to put it across to her that she will accept it and that she won't do anything silly.
Also, if I love her...why do I cry every evening at the end of my work day and I ve to go back to the house and face her? Seriously, I cried. I cried in anger the life I'm leading and of lacking the courage to end it.
I do agree I'm find faults with her nowadays but I've no courage to tell her.
How did I love her in the first place and when did I stop loving her? I seriously don't remember any more or care. I tried to forget as much as possible nowadays. Also, my depression narrow down my view and perception of things alot (negatively)...and again I'm too tired to do much nowadays...just hope the day end quickly and weekend don't come.
if there is no life, there is no death.
how can you stop loving her, when u nv love her right?
i hate seing couple going their own way.
it hurt alot
Its the social perception that ~ people with failed relationships are failures ~ that make it even more difficult for people who have made wrong choices have a second chance.
Making the decision to walk away from a failed relationship responsibly is one of the most difficult things to do.
The crux lies in the 'Responsibly' doesn't it?
How much effort must a person put into salvaging a marriage before it is deemed 'responsible' to walk away?
There is no rite/way wrong way lar, u put it her as u would, simple lar, if she reacts - u are an excuse for what she is, if she responds - u are not an excuse - she is being what she is, anyhow, to make her predicament into yours is being silly. u be u - u take responsibility for what u feel and project - likewise she has to
U say u love her and yet u suffer - it could be needs, fear of loss - of your identity that is linked to her - she validates u, love that suffers is not love lar, love is a sharing of two beings, two nothingness becoming one, dissolving into each other ( that is no egos, no minds, two hearts lar). the heart has no rules, the mind (conditioned) has many, it is divisive.
When u find faults in her or anyone - u are looking at what is missing in u or ur life, the other is merely an excuse.
Can u love in the past , can u love in the future, love is only love if it flows, and what flows from within u each moment, matters, if the other does not respond or reciprocate, it does not matter, however, if u find urself diminished when there is no rewards, then know it is love but with conditions attached, expecations, real love simply gives, the flower in the garden when it sends out its fragrance - it does not choose, it shares, the wise appreciates, the dense, dont even know it is the door to one's heart. The one who has it within can partake of the fragrance.
In the negation of the ego, life happens and love happens, otherwise its a chase, an infernal one
Hmm....how long have you been taking medication?
May I ask what was the reason that you decided not to have any children?
I believe a big reason for your unhappiness and the state of your marriage, has to do with your personality.
Perhaps you should take AndrePKYap advice first, first you have to recover yourself.
Go out with your friends, colleagues/ co-workers, or maybe you just go out yourself, go to a beach alone, spend some time there and think things through.
If you have time, you can go to Pasir Ris beach, it's very quiet and peaceful here.....go here sometime and sit here....
You also need to start excercising....it will help to make you healthier and happier...and improve your mind as well....
After that you should take your wife to a holiday, just the 2 of you....if HK is too expensive, you can go to Bali or somewhere near.
I do not recommend that you end your marriage.
Although I can see that she has her faults, such as over-criticizing you, and make you feel small and lost feelings to her, I can see that you yourself also have some faults.
I think you are too passive, too inambitious, too cowardly, too quiet and too static. The reason why she went overboard in overcriticizing you is due to you inviting her to do so. If you show some vitality and dynamism, and show some charisma and leadership, she will respect you and wont criticize you so much in the first place.
I again do not recommend you to end your marriage.
To do so, your life will go in a downward spiral, you will feel much worse than now. I do not think you can ever recover. Your depression and your passivity will be much worse, you will lose all interest in life and maybe spend a few years living a hazy life, like a dream.
May I ask what is the reason that you refuse to have a baby with her?
Maybe that is the way out, for you, and for her, to start to build a new family, feel more vitality, get a child.
Seriously consider saving your marriage first before deciding to end it.
Basically Im now talking to you for your own good, not for her.
If you end your marriage, I dont think that will be the answer.
You will solidify and cement your passivity and loneliness. Your life is going to take a worse turn, not a better one.
Dont think that by ending the marriage, your suffering will go away. It will just go onto a different mode.
So my suggestion for you is to improve yourself and recover yourself first, then work on her, work on the relationship, and in this way, if you manage to succeed, you will have a better life.
wow. this is quite severe.. she's not even coorperating. i don't know what to do already lol.
When one's house (inner) is drenched in darkness and when one is looking for a switch outside of oneself and from another (what is 'inner' in another) to light oneself in the inside , can u imagine the anxiety - one could lose it anytime ; one is enslaved; one is no longer free . However if the lite within one shines everbright, the other can stay , the other can go, one will be ok, always ok, One cannot earn love, one shares, what are u sharing lar, and if u are sharing - do u have it within u - is it an everspring? love is an immeasurable quality , quantify it - it dies lar. U need air to breathe, do u need another person to breathe? Or do u seek the permission of another to breathe?
Originally posted by Meat Pao:Hmm....how long have you been taking medication?
May I ask what was the reason that you decided not to have any children?
I believe a big reason for your unhappiness and the state of your marriage, has to do with your personality.
Perhaps you should take AndrePKYap advice first, first you have to recover yourself.
Go out with your friends, colleagues/ co-workers, or maybe you just go out yourself, go to a beach alone, spend some time there and think things through.
If you have time, you can go to Pasir Ris beach, it's very quiet and peaceful here.....go here sometime and sit here....
You also need to start excercising....it will help to make you healthier and happier...and improve your mind as well....
After that you should take your wife to a holiday, just the 2 of you....if HK is too expensive, you can go to Bali or somewhere near.
I do not recommend that you end your marriage.
Although I can see that she has her faults, such as over-criticizing you, and make you feel small and lost feelings to her, I can see that you yourself also have some faults.
I think you are too passive, too inambitious, too cowardly, too quiet and too static. The reason why she went overboard in overcriticizing you is due to you inviting her to do so. If you show some vitality and dynamism, and show some charisma and leadership, she will respect you and wont criticize you so much in the first place.
I again do not recommend you to end your marriage.
To do so, your life will go in a downward spiral, you will feel much worse than now. I do not think you can ever recover. Your depression and your passivity will be much worse, you will lose all interest in life and maybe spend a few years living a hazy life, like a dream.
May I ask what is the reason that you refuse to have a baby with her?
Maybe that is the way out, for you, and for her, to start to build a new family, feel more vitality, get a child.
Seriously consider saving your marriage first before deciding to end it.
Basically Im now talking to you for your own good, not for her.
If you end your marriage, I dont think that will be the answer.
You will solidify and cement your passivity and loneliness. Your life is going to take a worse turn, not a better one.
Dont think that by ending the marriage, your suffering will go away. It will just go onto a different mode.
So my suggestion for you is to improve yourself and recover yourself first, then work on her, work on the relationship, and in this way, if you manage to succeed, you will have a better life.
Yes, I saw AndrePKYap and thinks he makes some sense. That I should learn to make myself happy again first. And let her make herself happy in her own way w/o me...but I don't think it works if we're staying together under the same roof.
i agreed i m cowardly and quiet. i'm not too sure about the inambitious and static part.
how do you define inambitious? i always wanted to live in a condo..and have been working towards it. frankly, i've the capability and have discussed with her a few times to move to a condo near our current location. is this the ambition you're referring? sorry, if i misunderstood.
also, i've took my degree part-time during our marriage and am now taking a master. i'm planning to start my own online biz. is this been static?
oh, btw, she never really support any of the things i do above except that the degree, i started taking before marriage.
i admitted i too critize her in the past whenever she try to make me feel small...but later, i found she won't stop and i felt silly critizing her just for the sake of getting back at her. i asked her to stop...but after a few months...she would start again. i think it's her habit to make other feel small b'cos she is insecure. it's the way she had been brought up. i noticed this when she is with her family too. esp. her sis, mum and herself would naturally critize their father on every little thing (i wonder how her father stand it all these years)
okay, so why i don't want a baby? cos i think if she is so insecure, she won't make a good mother and then, i've no feeling for her anymore and i'm so unhappy and tired that i've no interest in making a baby
looks like i'm not giving her any chance, isn't it?
if i found this forum maybe 3 yrs ago..perhaps the marriage can be saved. now after being depressed and tired for so long..it'll very hard to push myself to think anything good about her and this marriage life.
now, everyday, i only think how i can survive another day.....and maybe you're right. i've giving up the hope to be ambition...i just given up my master deg b'cos i was too tired to study...and i see no hope in my life ahead..so i m static.
Just curious, how do you salvage a r/s when there is no longer love, when guy sees girl its no longer love its just a turn off and the thought of meeting her tires you. Guy no longer wants to take the initiative to show love to the girl because love is no longer there instead it becomes a burden.
In your opinion what do you recommend the guy to do?
To GreyMeow: Its all about having the right mindset as well as the right priorities in your life. Having a positive mindset is important but in your given the current situation I guess you would need the help of a 3rd party to help you be strong again.(mentally)
Next, your priorities.. Shouldnt attaining your masters be your priority now, atleast you have something to fall back on. You said you no longer see any hope in your life thus the lack of motivation in living your life to the fullest, you've gotta change that and ask yourself what are your interest and pursue them. Step out of your usual routine, what are the things that you've always wanted to do but do not have the time to do it? e.g. Backpacking, scuba diving, learn how to play a musical instrument? Taking the first step is the hardest and its all up to your desire on how much you want to change your life, this desire would push you to take your first step.
Cheers and goodluck!
GreyMeow,
I think you already found the answer yourself when you said you didn't love her anymore.
Unless, you are not sure if you what you hate are her insane ways and if you ultimately still love her. That, my friend, is what you have to find out for yourself. Once you sort that out, I think you know what to do.
Best of luck dear.
You can only give others what you have inside of yourself. Therefore to give love away to others, you must have it inside u first. When u squeeze an orange - do u get orange juice or ...? U get what is inside. When u squeeze a person - what is kept on the inside comes out. If they are loving, kind, ... that comes out, they radiate that.
Relationship per se does not really exist lar.You only have your idea of your relationship with the other(s) to act on. Therefore u focus on making sure you see your relationship with others on the terms that you hope for the future of the relationship to exist. In other words, you must see harmony WITHIN yourself and then with the other person. You must always have within you what you wish to see or give another.
As for ambitions, its fine to pursue whatever suits u , resonates with u, however, to embellish your relationship(s) with accomplishments n .... i doubt it works that way.
Originally posted by logistic:Just curious, how do you salvage a r/s when there is no longer love, when guy sees girl its no longer love its just a turn off and the thought of meeting her tires you. Guy no longer wants to take the initiative to show love to the girl because love is no longer there instead it becomes a burden.
In your opinion what do you recommend the guy to do?
To GreyMeow: Its all about having the right mindset as well as the right priorities in your life. Having a positive mindset is important but in your given the current situation I guess you would need the help of a 3rd party to help you be strong again.(mentally)
Next, your priorities.. Shouldnt attaining your masters be your priority now, atleast you have something to fall back on. You said you no longer see any hope in your life thus the lack of motivation in living your life to the fullest, you've gotta change that and ask yourself what are your interest and pursue them. Step out of your usual routine, what are the things that you've always wanted to do but do not have the time to do it? e.g. Backpacking, scuba diving, learn how to play a musical instrument? Taking the first step is the hardest and its all up to your desire on how much you want to change your life, this desire would push you to take your first step.
Cheers and goodluck!
yes, i already know my answer a few yrs back..just that i don't know how to make her see it and come to term with it short of being 'ruthless' or 'cruel' by getting angry with her all the time? hitting her? go find another somebody? walk out of her life after saying i don't love her and let her deal with it on her own knowing how insecure she is and who knows what she'll do?
if only i can let her come to term & accept properly (if there is such a way) that i do not want to continue the marriage ...just that i don't know of anybody will help me be strong to do that.
no professional help i went to will assist me in getting a couple to divorce or separate even in my situation. i guess it's against their code of conduct...
so there you have it...
U get treated in life the way u want by allowing others to treat u the way u have unwittingly acquiesced to. Take yourself back and ..... she has to assume responsibility for her self, for her happpiness for her .... and share lar, otherwise, save yourself first, well, when u have saved yourself - u would be different , new, i doubt u would want anyone like her, what a predicament.
Greymeow,
Her complaining everything is so expensive must have made you feel inadequate doesn't it.. Her criticism must have made you feel like a lousy man....
Your marriage was not destroyed overnight. It didn't happen over a few arguments.
In your marriage there's the big 4 present.. and that's what had lead to your current state of marriage.
Sarcasm, Contempt, Stonewalling, and Unwillingness to meet a spouse's request.
All the above.. when combined leads to the death of love.
Can you reverse it ? Maybe. Maybe not.
I suggest you give it one last shot. Once you have done your best.. and it still ain't good enough. You head out the door.
It's really dumb to use suicide threats to hold back a man. What's the point of having the body but no longer his heart ? To chain a man's heart with fear.
You are already 38, she's probably not that young either. Chances are.. she ain't gonna let go of you because she has nothing else to hold on to.....That's why she's asking for a baby. Not because she loves you.. but because she don't want to be left with nothing.
You can keep dragging your feet.. but the end result will be the same....
Originally posted by GreyMeow:yes, i did....try to tell her. she will start to cry..tell me to stop. when i didn't, she will say she love me..she just want a simple life. she don't want to go bck to her parents with a failed marriage, etc. she will cry and cry..and beg me not to do this to her...it's very painful for me to see a woman cry (esp. i'm the one to make a woman cry)
however, i've been advised before to be strong..so when i try to continue...she will turn nasty, start throwing stuffs, bangings door, damaging things..shouting....then she'll tell me to shutup..and at one time, she'll even hit me right in the face. then she will go silent on me...and not let me talk to her at all.
it's at this point, i don't know what to do. just pack my stuffs and walk out of the house? what if she do something silly when i'm away?
and can anyone explain what is a separation? how is it different from divorce?
Your wife is a drama queen.
I mean seriously.. does she really believes throwing a tantrum makes a man loves her more ? I don't think so.
But yes.. you shoulda packed your stuff and walk out that door. Tell her that you will only come back.. after she has calmed down. And every time she becomes destructive again.. you WALK.
When you stay after she throws her fits.. you are just giving her more reason to behave in such erratic behavior... BECAUSE IT WORKS !!
Let me warn you this.. if your wife treats you this way .. she will do the same to your children.
She will become the manipulative .. drama queen mother. When she can't get her way with the children.. the drama will emerge. So do your future children a favor. Find someone else who is rational and non-destructive to be your children's biological mother.
You may think that having children will calm her down.. WRONG. It's only that.. she can refocus her irrationality on the children instead of you.
A child cannot choose their own mother.. but you the father CAN.