it looks like i'm hopeless. i don't ve the courage to deal with my own problem :(
The archer who has missed his target, corrects his aim , corrects himself first,
the other thing, i m guessing - its lack of courage that is hindering u to ...
Man, courage, others can encourage u, others can persuade, others can give u ideas, but the price u pay , is those who give are peddling drugs, one is the pusher and one is the addict.
The way i see it - SELF-love - because courage is borne out of it
Originally posted by GreyMeow:you're right. i didn't think about it in this way...that i was unfair with regards to her recognizing my depression. my apologies. i guess i've to find an opportunity to break the news to her.
well....yes, i'm afraid of hurting her feelings and her family's feelings too. her family have high expectations of us..that we'll give them a baby soon. it's going to be very hard and shocking for all of them. i doubt her family will let me leave after i break the news to them. her mum is the same 'controlling' type. she'll want me to 'work it out' with my wife immediately.
my wife and her mum are not in good term. they often quarrel b'cos both want to be controlling. her mum will sure to criticize her and make her 'small' the moment i break the news. she is her dad fav daughter, so her dad will sure to kill me....if not, question and persuade me not to do it.
it'll be history repeating itself when her uncle (her mum's bro) wife divorced him. every single members incl. the relatives cursed and blamed the woman for leaving her uncle as if there is no fault from her uncle.
i must say i very dread doing what you suggested. i really feel very bad to say it but i don't think i can handle that situation.
May I ask.. do you live for yourself.. or do you live for others.
I understand the pressure from her family. But have you consider the fact that YOU have your family too ?
Do you know that your own parents will be heart broken.. when they found out that you had to live your life according to your wife and her family's wishes , and disregarding your own ?
Do you know that your own family and friends will be sad.. when they see you falling apart because you are trying so hard to please some group of people who only cares for themselves ?
I can fully understand the pressure you face.. but you must understand that .. this is YOUR life.. and you answer to no one but yourself... and than GOD.( if you are religious).
So who cares what her family thinks of you or expect of you ? Are you not giving yourself too much credit ? Are you afraid of losing this very "important" status in HER family ????
They may grief over the lost of a relative in law and the end of this union.. but by the time your ex wife.. finds a new love.. you will be nothing but HISTORY.
You only get one chance to live this life... live it the way you want... and think about your OWN parents first.. they are the ones who raised you. Have you forgotten them ???
An old man and a boy were travelling with a mule.
The boy rode on the mule and the old man walked.
As they went along they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding.
The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions.
Later, they passed some people that remarked, "What a shame, he makes that little boy walk."
They then decided they both would walk!
Soon they passed some more people who thought they were stupid to walk when they had a decent mule to ride.
So, they both rode the donkey.
Now they passed some people that shamed them by saying how awful to put such a load on a poor mule.
The boy and man said they were probably right, so they decided to carry the mule. As they crossed the bridge, they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river and drowned.
The moral of the story?
If you try to please everyone, you might as well kiss your ass good-bye.
Originally posted by jojobeach:May I ask.. do you live for yourself.. or do you live for others.
I understand the pressure from her family. But have you consider the fact that YOU have your family too ?
Do you know that your own parents will be heart broken.. when they found out that you had to live your life according to your wife and her family's wishes , and disregarding your own ?
Do you know that your own family and friends will be sad.. when they see you falling apart because you are trying so hard to please some group of people who only cares for themselves ?
I can fully understand the pressure you face.. but you must understand that .. this is YOUR life.. and you answer to no one but yourself... and than GOD.( if you are religious).
So who cares what her family thinks of you or expect of you ? Are you not giving yourself too much credit ? Are you afraid of losing this very "important" status in HER family ????
They may grief over the lost of a relative in law and the end of this union.. but by the time your ex wife.. finds a new love.. you will be nothing but HISTORY.
You only get one chance to live this life... live it the way you want... and think about your OWN parents first.. they are the ones who raised you. Have you forgotten them ???
i've always been living for others....since young..for my parents to do well in study so that they can boast about it, to quickly go out to work to lessen finanical burden of my parents, pay for my own deg study, to be the "model" bro & peace-maker for my siblings, make the customers happy for my co., etc, etc... i admit it. one of the psychologist identify this to me before.
it is always this stage that failed me. aarrgh. i just feel my wife seems so innocent. she don't know she has a problem with insecure...and suddenly, i've to hit her with this.
i know..i know...it's about others again...i still cannot overcome this mental barrier...
it's a life-time of my upbringing i'm fighting against (my beliefs, my experience, my teaching, etc) and i'm not sure how to overcome it.
Kill, kill , kill the four voices (the 4 evils) - and like i mentioned before , it is going to be the death of u, ur identity ur beliefs and .... all the crap that dominoes one, its a suggestion, its worked for me and i live,
Originally posted by jojobeach:May I ask.. do you live for yourself.. or do you live for others.
I understand the pressure from her family. But have you consider the fact that YOU have your family too ?
Do you know that your own parents will be heart broken.. when they found out that you had to live your life according to your wife and her family's wishes , and disregarding your own ?
Do you know that your own family and friends will be sad.. when they see you falling apart because you are trying so hard to please some group of people who only cares for themselves ?
I can fully understand the pressure you face.. but you must understand that .. this is YOUR life.. and you answer to no one but yourself... and than GOD.( if you are religious).
So who cares what her family thinks of you or expect of you ? Are you not giving yourself too much credit ? Are you afraid of losing this very "important" status in HER family ????
They may grief over the lost of a relative in law and the end of this union.. but by the time your ex wife.. finds a new love.. you will be nothing but HISTORY.
You only get one chance to live this life... live it the way you want... and think about your OWN parents first.. they are the ones who raised you. Have you forgotten them ???
relax lah jojo, what u said make sense.
but there are people we cant change them over night one, sometime they will change slowly, sometime they dont even change one.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:i've always been living for others....since young..for my parents to do well in study so that they can boast about it, to quickly go out to work to lessen finanical burden of my parents, pay for my own deg study, to be the "model" bro & peace-maker for my siblings, make the customers happy for my co., etc, etc... i admit it. one of the psychologist identify this to me before.
it is always this stage that failed me. aarrgh. i just feel my wife seems so innocent. she don't know she has a problem with insecure...and suddenly, i've to hit her with this.
i know..i know...it's about others again...i still cannot overcome this mental barrier...
it's a life-time of my upbringing i'm fighting against (my beliefs, my experience, my teaching, etc) and i'm not sure how to overcome it.
maybe u wanna consider just being yourself?
i mean why u wanna change?
doing thing for others after all is not a bad thing
i mean u have been doing all this for so long already
just let it be lor
u have been a good son to your mom
a good worker for your boss
and not a good husband to your wife =P
Originally posted by BotaHead:maybe u wanna consider just being yourself?
i mean why u wanna change?
doing thing for others after all is not a bad thing
i mean u have been doing all this for so long already
just let it be lor
u have been a good son to your mom
a good worker for your boss
and not a good husband to your wife =P
how do you come to that conclusion, botahead? let me know your thoughts.
since there is no right or wrong way of ending it and i can't change my character overnight (& obviously not for the past 7 yrs), is it not possible to let my wife acknowledge her problem and seek help first?
Originally posted by GreyMeow:how do you come to that conclusion, botahead? let me know your thoughts.
nah, its not a conclusion, it is just suggestion for your consideration.
u dont agree on what i said?
Yes, it takes a while before u may change or ... as for your spouse, it may work if she listens lar, if she is only hearing - then ....
Pain is a good teacher!
Originally posted by GreyMeow:since there is no right or wrong way of ending it and i can't change my character overnight (& obviously not for the past 7 yrs), is it not possible to let my wife acknowledge her problem and seek help first?
i think the 1st thing is not about your wife, it about u and u need to do something about u depression.
actually there is no right or wrong but there is only left or right. if u read my earier post my stance is to stay in the married while your is to end it.
i will only give advice to stay in married and not give advice to break up a family u see. so my post will go accordingly to what i stand for.
hope u dont mind me busybody.
Originally posted by BotaHead:i think the 1st thing is not about your wife, it about u and u need to do something about u depression.
actually there is no right or wrong but there is only left or right. if u read my earier post my stance is to stay in the married while your is to end it.
i will only give advice to stay in married and not give advice to break up a family u see. so my post will go accordingly to what i stand for.
hope u dont mind me busybody.
i don't agree or disagree..was thinking that to you, the spouse who wanted to end the marriage will be the bad spouse regardless of reasons. so just want to know more of your thoughts.
if there is a family to begin with..then yes, breaking up sounds bad.
i'm on medication for my depression. it helps...not sure what more i can do beside what had been point out to me above - leave this toxic environment to heal...
Two prisoner holed up in a cell were looking out into the nite sky,the first one was delited at the moon that was waxing and waning. - the second could only see the bars on the window, get it?
Originally posted by GreyMeow:it looks like i'm hopeless. i don't ve the courage to deal with my own problem :(
So u want soft approach or harsh approach? PM me cos me dun want to follow this thread le.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:i've always been living for others....since young..for my parents to do well in study so that they can boast about it, to quickly go out to work to lessen finanical burden of my parents, pay for my own deg study, to be the "model" bro & peace-maker for my siblings, make the customers happy for my co., etc, etc... i admit it. one of the psychologist identify this to me before.
it is always this stage that failed me. aarrgh. i just feel my wife seems so innocent. she don't know she has a problem with insecure...and suddenly, i've to hit her with this.
i know..i know...it's about others again...i still cannot overcome this mental barrier...
it's a life-time of my upbringing i'm fighting against (my beliefs, my experience, my teaching, etc) and i'm not sure how to overcome it.
Well.. since you enjoy the act of giving.. then that's great.
So what did the psychologist help you to achieve ? Like.. what good stuff have you learned from your psychology sessions and how applying those knowlege has help you so far ?
We don't want to undo what your psychologist has been working hard to do....
" i just feel my wife seems so innocent. she don't know she has a problem with insecure."
The above statement... are you questioning your wife's intellect ? Do you know that is a very condescending attitude you have towards your wife ?
Do you really think you know more of herself than she ?
Ofcors she knows she has a problem.. and that problem is you. LOL...You treat her like a little girl... that's very disrespectful to your spouse.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:since there is no right or wrong way of ending it and i can't change my character overnight (& obviously not for the past 7 yrs), is it not possible to let my wife acknowledge her problem and seek help first?
Well.. you can't change another person.. because you have no control over their minds.
You can highlight the issue to her.. and the rest if up to her... to decide if she needs to change.
You CAN only change yourself.
It's the same thing here... can we.. the forumer's who are giving you advise.. change your thinking if you don't see the need to do so ? No , yes, maybe ?
Originally posted by jojobeach:Well.. since you enjoy the act of giving.. then that's great.
So what did the psychologist help you to achieve ? Like.. what good stuff have you learned from your psychology sessions and how applying those knowlege has help you so far ?
We don't want to undo what your psychologist has been working hard to do....
" i just feel my wife seems so innocent. she don't know she has a problem with insecure."
The above statement... are you questioning your wife's intellect ? Do you know that is a very condescending attitude you have towards your wife ?
Do you really think you know more of herself than she ?
Ofcors she knows she has a problem.. and that problem is you. LOL...You treat her like a little girl... that's very disrespectful to your spouse.
no, i'm not questioning her intellect..and yes, she know her problem is me - i'm not loving her.
we (my spouse and i) are simply not bringing our issue out openly to sort it out. i'm so dump...why didn't i think of that. b'cos i'm not telling her the problem and she is in denial...nothing is going to be solve. the rest of my problems is just a result of me dragging my feet!
ok, maybe i'll send her a letter or something to bring up the problem. then let her know i want to move out. since i decided i can't live with her, i better start doing something concrete about it.
thanks jojo.
To Ts,
Well as you've mention that you might not be able to articulate ur problems verbally or your wife would just shut you up whenever you wanna do the talking, I suggest you communicate with her through some other ways.
What i'm suggesting is through mails/letter, you can write down how you feel and what are your plans and decisions, pass it on to your wife I believe sometimes using the indirect way to approach a problem might be more effective, as compared to confronting each other when both of you are agitated and arent thinking properly, through letters and mails it'll give the sender more time to think through what his going to write for his content as well as the receiver to have more time to go through the content of the letter and what it really meant.
So I assume that your mind is set on divorcing? Sometimes even though you're 100% sure that you dont love her anymore when the time really comes that she's INDEED leaving you, you might realise how important she is to you.
However its your life and you only live it once, so make a decision that you wont regret and stick to it. Be a man do the right thing.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:no, i'm not questioning her intellect..and yes, she know her problem is me - i'm not loving her.
we (my spouse and i) are simply not bringing our issue out openly to sort it out. i'm so dump...why didn't i think of that. b'cos i'm not telling her the problem and she is in denial...nothing is going to be solve. the rest of my problems is just a result of me dragging my feet!
ok, maybe i'll send her a letter or something to bring up the problem. then let her know i want to move out. since i decided i can't live with her, i better start doing something concrete about it.
thanks jojo.
Well.. you stop loving her.. because she don't give you the gratification you seek.
In other words.. you don't give for nothing.
You give so you want to feel appreciated, so you do live for yourself.
When your parents are proud of you for your achievements.. you are receiving some form of gratification .. pride. If your parents don't show pride .. you will feel that your hard work is all for naught. The same goes for your master degree which you have decided to forgo.. because you don't see the gratification from such efforts.
When you provide good customer service.. you feel good about your ability to fullfill the customer's needs.. and that is gratification. If all your customer complains you suck even after doing your very best.. you'd probably find another non-customer related job.
When you become the good brother.. you get respect from your siblings. And that is gratification.
SO.. the reason why you stopped loving your wife.. is because.. you don't get the gratification from her. You are not getting the respect you seek by giving in.. you are not getting more love nor approval from her when you forgo your hobbies..and so you stopped trying to please her.
The most hurtful of all for men.. is to feel so inadequate when your woman complains about being poor... unable to afford a life pleasure.. when you have studied so hard to get your part time degree.. work so hard to bring home the bacon.. so you feel like your past efforts are all for naught.
If you don't disagree.. I think you really need to convey this part of your life to her. Let her some time to digest this.... if she still don't get it.. then it's not too late to leave the marriage.
Originally posted by jojobeach:Well.. you stop loving her.. because she don't give you the gratification you seek.
In other words.. you don't give for nothing.
You give so you want to feel appreciated, so you do live for yourself.
When your parents are proud of you for your achievements.. you are receiving some form of gratification .. pride. If your parents don't show pride .. you will feel that your hard work is all for naught. The same goes for your master degree which you have decided to forgo.. because you don't see the gratification from such efforts.
When you provide good customer service.. you feel good about your ability to fullfill the customer's needs.. and that is gratification. If all your customer complains you suck even after doing your very best.. you'd probably find another non-customer related job.
When you become the good brother.. you get respect from your siblings. And that is gratification.
SO.. the reason why you stopped loving your wife.. is because.. you don't get the gratification from her. You are not getting the respect you seek by giving in.. you are not getting more love nor approval from her when you forgo your hobbies..and so you stopped trying to please her.
The most hurtful of all for men.. is to feel so inadequate when your woman complains about being poor... unable to afford a life pleasure.. when you have studied so hard to get your part time degree.. work so hard to bring home the bacon.. so you feel like your past efforts are all for naught.
If you don't disagree.. I think you really need to convey this part of your life to her. Let her some time to digest this.... if she still don't get it.. then it's not too late to leave the marriage.
well, yes & no. yes, i do need gratification but it's not that i'm angry over it. just sad. even if it is just seeing the happy face on the other people.
i think everybody humanly so and servicing others at one point in time or another will need some form of gratification..i believe even those people who saved or take care of others get a form of gratification just knowing a life is saved even though they don't expect anything out of the others.
it may sound cynical but everything we do that involve loving, helping or servicing others can be view as needing gratification in th end....one form or another.
i'm not angry over her for not showing gratification...just sad that whatever i do seems to get her diapproval or not up to her expectations but that's over.
so, i agreed with you but it's just that i don't know how to convey this part of my life to her well.
frankly, now after all the comments/suggestions/advices from everyone in this post, i still don't know what's stopping me from walking out of her life or talking to her about it.
i agreed that i want out and i don't love...yet there is barrier mentally that i can't get across to open it up to her and settle it. i can't articulate this 'barrier' wel., it's like a paranoiding fear of the final confrontation...i'm so cowardly hopeless.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:frankly, now after all the comments/suggestions/advices from everyone in this post, i still don't know what's stopping me from walking out of her life or talking to her about it.
There's somewhere for you to start. Talk to her about it, write her a letter or email or something to tell her how you feel. I'm pretty sure your wife doesn't read minds so she probably doesn't even know she's causing you such hurt.
If one's house is in disarray, would one go round preaching or advicing - one would tend to the house - fix it first lar, now, it seems like the blind is on the edge of a emotional precipice and is leading another, what a shitty predicament
Originally posted by Fugazzi:If one's house is in disarray, would one go round preaching or advicing - one would tend to the house - fix it first lar, now, it seems like the blind is on the edge of a emotional precipice and is leading another, what a shitty predicament
you got it right. i've to fix myself first...but i just don't know how. my 'foundation'/upbring is obviously flawed and right now, there is nothing for me to fall back on (no friend, no family, etc) to rebuild it. it's really a shitty predicament....