I can only add that what u acknowledge in u and honestly know its from within - good/bad (subjective) u - is good enough for now. man, there is a crowd in u, be rid of them at any cost -
when u are all alone , no one is with u, and what ur heart hankers for is what u want, the mind - no, it is divisive, and though good to use in business, workplace ... its a bad master when it comes to love . Love that emanates ffrom the heart(Being) is heartwarming, love that is from the mind - a hellish expereince, ego-trips, clashes ...
When u climb a hill - do u carry lots of things or do u prefer to carry only what is essential, now , assuming u are climbing - u are carrying loads of baggage, conditioning and so on so forth - empty youself of all these shit and be embrace uncertainty, certainty is security, but it kills , its repetitive,
Uncertainty is thrilling, one is alive, one never know what is going to come or happen - well, this presupposes one is secure WITHIN, one who is secure within is growin up
Sadly, 9 out of 10 look for security outside themselves, and when things change or fall apart - misery is the mainstay of their living diet! one who seeks security from another or thing - is growing old lar
Their insides are hollow, shallow, can a hollow or shallow ... have deep foundations?
U are here to play , live and enjoy the trip while its lasts, to be serious is unwise, serious people are caught in an ego-trip, negate the ego - life happens, love happens,
Love and freedom - are two sides of the same coin, bereft of these ..... it suffocates ,it turns stale.
All these will not fix your relationships, marrriage or ... but it enhances u as a person, ur well- being - and when u relate from there on to ... there is a quality , u would radiate , the sleepwalkers will miss it, the awake - they will see.
The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it is not. It is an existential truth: only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of the other person -- without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.
Grey,
Perhaps the only time for you to end it .. is when she is ready to let you go.
Instead of you saying goodbye to her... let her say goodbye to you.
A cowardly way of doing it... but if it works for you... well then I suppose that's the only way.
A silent home.. a man without love.. I wish you do not torture her so. Perhaps if you are fearful.. she will have the courage to end it for you.
Perhaps you are enjoying too much.. the gratification from punishing her bad behavior by withholding your love.
But may I warn you that.. no good will come out of this vindictive cycle.
For a woman has patience exacting the revenge for what you are doing to her.
By the time you are old and frail..pray that you are emotionally strong... to withstand the deluge of resentment she has built up over the years. For the best revenge ... awaits.
A woman's wrath is best not to reckon with.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:you got it right. i've to fix myself first...but i just don't know how. my 'foundation'/upbring is obviously flawed and right now, there is nothing for me to fall back on (no friend, no family, etc) to rebuild it. it's really a shitty predicament....
Just based on what you've said, I feel the problem isn't so much with you but her. You have been as nice as you can about it, be considerate for her and all. I won't agree with what some have said that you still love her because quite obviously this relationship has been taking its toil on you.
I understand it's just not easy to drop someone who has been so close to you and has been so part of you all these years. However, that is not the same as love. It's no good for you or the relationship if you're always on edge always expecting the next scolding.
But what some have said is something I agree, if you were not there she'll be doing it to someone else as well. There's only so much you can do.
Originally posted by jojobeach:Grey,
Perhaps the only time for you to end it .. is when she is ready to let you go.
Instead of you saying goodbye to her... let her say goodbye to you.
A cowardly way of doing it... but if it works for you... well then I suppose that's the only way.
A silent home.. a man without love.. I wish you do not torture her so. Perhaps if you are fearful.. she will have the courage to end it for you.
Perhaps you are enjoying too much.. the gratification from punishing her bad behavior by withholding your love.
But may I warn you that.. no good will come out of this vindictive cycle.
For a woman has patience exacting the revenge for what you are doing to her.
By the time you are old and frail..pray that you are emotionally strong... to withstand the deluge of resentment she has built up over the years. For the best revenge ... awaits.
A woman's wrath is best not to reckon with.
jojo, no i'm not a sadist to enjoy the gratification from punishing her by withholding my love...but i also can't prove it since i don't love yet unable to make an end to it.
but i'll fix myself up first...find my self-worth, love myself more so that i won't be so compromising and cowardly. this is a promise to myself.
and i also want to thanks everyone here who gave me your comments/advices/suggestions/bashing.
Originally posted by SomebodyInSG:Just based on what you've said, I feel the problem isn't so much with you but her. You have been as nice as you can about it, be considerate for her and all. I won't agree with what some have said that you still love her because quite obviously this relationship has been taking its toil on you.
I understand it's just not easy to drop someone who has been so close to you and has been so part of you all these years. However, that is not the same as love. It's no good for you or the relationship if you're always on edge always expecting the next scolding.
But what some have said is something I agree, if you were not there she'll be doing it to someone else as well. There's only so much you can do.
sombodyinSG, i do have a serious problem with myself. i let her step all over me and even though i had stop loving her sometime back, i still couldn't have the courage to end the relationship and this is hurting both of us.
also, recognising her behaviour maybe due to some insecurity, i didn't make much effort to help her recognising it in someway.
so the faults now may largely due to me. anyway, i better stop else ppl will say i'm thinking for others again and i promise to love myself more.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:sombodyinSG, i do have a serious problem with myself. i let her step all over me and even though i had stop loving her sometime back, i still couldn't have the courage to end the relationship and this is hurting both of us.
also, recognising her behaviour maybe due to some insecurity, i didn't make much effort to help her recognising it in someway.
so the faults now may largely due to me. anyway, i better stop else ppl will say i'm thinking for others again and i promise to love myself more.
I would say it's a two way thing, but you've already acknowledged that. Afterall you know where you stand now. You also seem to be clear about how she feels. Any decision you make will not be misinformed or rash, as just a stranger online, I have that much faith in you at least.
Once again all the best to you.
You remind me of a friend. He was highly educated, had a good salary and promising career. He married a trophy wife, just the way he obtain and work hard for his own undeniable achievements everyone acknowledges.
She was a beauty and admired by all men and even women. Her only flaw was that her knowledge and capacity was no way in league with his. Even though many envied them and see them as a couple of perfection,he was never happy.
It was a mismatch from the start. Love is more than another intellectual conquest, for it transcends everything mankind seeks to comprehend and yet do not. In its complexity lies its simplicity - give and take - compromises.
He found it a strain to talk about Prada and the latest product lines of Helena Rubenstein. He would rather be talking about John Sinclair or Sam Huddington, but it was never so. They could not communicate on the same wave-length.
In time they drifted apart. The faithful wife spent his money, while he was busy making money and both acknowledging the futility of life and its meaning, meandering awaiting for death, each subscribing in their own interest to find meaning.
Similarly, I feel it may be the same you are going thru.
There may be a way to save the marriage if both of you can compromise, should you both truly love each other. There must be a mutual attraction in order that you both stay together for some time. It is only your differences that are tearing you both apart.
Perhaps it is time you both rationalise and find a common ground to stand on which you can keep the relationship going. One way, contrary to your personal belief is children. Nothing keeps a family together like children.
Both of you would have a strong natural desire for kids - the decoration, the items, the food, the schools, etc. It would bring joy and a common goal for you both. It is a common ground - the love of a child and his/her life - that both can participate in. It will strongly complete both your life.
All it takes is compromise, borne out of a natural desire to ensure your child is protected and grows up in a happy environment. She will cut down on her shopping and you on your scholarly or self indulgent pursuits naturally.
However, if the flame is gone, then be a man and an educated one that you are. Do not linger, clinging on resulting in the destruction of 2 lives - yours and hers. Both of you have a right to happiness, to seek that which may be compatible to you both individually.
You are both still comparatively young in mid 30s to seek other partners. Do it now if you feel there is no longer hope or do not want to try to revive, and MUST NEVER regret the decision for it will only bring more pain and destruction to you both individual lives.
Being educated, we know the pain truth brings as well as the freedom it will set upon us. At the end of the day, it is your life and decision only you can make. Do consider all options but a decision MUST be made, better sooner than later when it becomes even more painful and could be life threatening. Good luck.
Originally posted by GreyMeow:sombodyinSG, i do have a serious problem with myself. i let her step all over me and even though i had stop loving her sometime back, i still couldn't have the courage to end the relationship and this is hurting both of us.
also, recognising her behaviour maybe due to some insecurity, i didn't make much effort to help her recognising it in someway.
so the faults now may largely due to me. anyway, i better stop else ppl will say i'm thinking for others again and i promise to love myself more.
Grey,
You've gotten a lot of assumption wrong.
A woman knows she is insecure. And her demanding behavior is a direct result of KNOWING she has insecurities..thus she is trying to resolve it through her demands on you . perhaps in your opinion.. those demands are unreasonable.. but to her.. its a proven way to confirm your love for her.
When you say you let her step all over you.. it's fairly simple... you gave in to her demands... begrudgingly...
What woman wants from her man.. is sincerity. When a man gives unwillingly.. it amounts to nothing. That is why .. she is always unhappy with what you had given her.
As for her family.. you mentioned that her father is being treated the same way ... your wife is treating you. Yet he remained in the marriage.
Let me remind you that.. you are the man.. you need to condition YOUR marriage.
For your wife.. she is so used to seeing her mother treating her father that way .. for so many years.. in her head.. it's become a NORMAL way to treat a husband. So to her.. it's not wrong to treat a man like how her mother treats her father.
You don't have to prove that her mother is wrong to threat the father that way.
You just need to tell her.. that's not how YOU want to be treated and set down your own rules.
This is YOUR marriage... you have control over HOW you want this marriage or future ones to function.
Remember.. your children will make your marriage an example of their own... surely you do not want your children to think it's ok to treat their own spouse.. the way you are being treated.. yes ?
Originally posted by xtreyier:You remind me of a friend. He was highly educated, had a good salary and promising career. He married a trophy wife, just the way he obtain and work hard for his own undeniable achievements everyone acknowledges.
She was a beauty and admired by all men and even women. Her only flaw was that her knowledge and capacity was no way in league with his. Even though many envied them and see them as a couple of perfection,he was never happy.
It was a mismatch from the start. Love is more than another intellectual conquest, for it transcends everything mankind seeks to comprehend and yet do not. In its complexity lies its simplicity - give and take - compromises.
He found it a strain to talk about Prada and the latest product lines of Helena Rubenstein. He would rather be talking about John Sinclair or Sam Huddington, but it was never so. They could not communicate on the same wave-length.
In time they drifted apart. The faithful wife spent his money, while he was busy making money and both acknowledging the futility of life and its meaning, meandering awaiting for death, each subscribing in their own interest to find meaning.
Similarly, I feel it may be the same you are going thru.
There may be a way to save the marriage if both of you can compromise, should you both truly love each other. There must be a mutual attraction in order that you both stay together for some time. It is only your differences that are tearing you both apart.
Perhaps it is time you both rationalise and find a common ground to stand on which you can keep the relationship going. One way, contrary to your personal belief is children. Nothing keeps a family together like children.
Both of you would have a strong natural desire for kids - the decoration, the items, the food, the schools, etc. It would bring joy and a common goal for you both. It is a common ground - the love of a child and his/her life - that both can participate in. It will strongly complete both your life.
All it takes is compromise, borne out of a natural desire to ensure your child is protected and grows up in a happy environment. She will cut down on her shopping and you on your scholarly or self indulgent pursuits naturally.
However, if the flame is gone, then be a man and an educated one that you are. Do not linger, clinging on resulting in the destruction of 2 lives - yours and hers. Both of you have a right to happiness, to seek that which may be compatible to you both individually.
You are both still comparatively young in mid 30s to seek other partners. Do it now if you feel there is no longer hope or do not want to try to revive, and MUST NEVER regret the decision for it will only bring more pain and destruction to you both individual lives.
Being educated, we know the pain truth brings as well as the freedom it will set upon us. At the end of the day, it is your life and decision only you can make. Do consider all options but a decision MUST be made, better sooner than later when it becomes even more painful and could be life threatening. Good luck.
Having a child for the sake of keeping a marriage .. is unacceptable.
The child will grow up thinking it's ok for both parents to not love each other.. to show hostility till death do they part . And thus gets involved with partners who can show no love accepting such loveless union is normal...
A vicious cycle.. need not be encouraged.
Originally posted by jojobeach:Having a child for the sake of keeping a marriage .. is unacceptable.
The child will grow up thinking it's ok for both parents to not love each other.. to show hostility till death do they part . And thus gets involved with partners who can show no love accepting such loveless union is normal...
A vicious cycle.. need not be encouraged.
that's so true. think about it this way...the child will only be with you for the first 20 years (coz he'll move out once he starts college etc). both parents have at least another 30 years after that - so what are they gonna do then?
Sometimes, it feels comfortable to be belittled, to think about all the -ve things, and to be trampled upon, because at least the person is getting attention.
It's a physcho thingy, and if not handled properly, will lead to depression.
You find a reflection of your current situation in your wife's family.
And you find that normal, even comforting.
The reason you stayed on with this marriage is you have been in comfortable state of mind already, only recently, maybe due to the medication, it brought you to think outside the comfort zone.
I have not read all posts, but I notice you do not speak of you own family or the type of friends you have.
Understanding the environment you were brought up in, and the type of peopl that shape your character can help all of us understand a bit of why you ended up this state.
And jojobeach is quite right in his assessment, a girl feels insecure thats why brings her demands on you.
Grey,
first of all, you got to be firm in what you are going to do.
else there is no solution to your problem. eventually you
may back out coz u r not firm enough.
i used to be like u.
you can tell everyone here what you are going to do. but
no one knows if you are going to do it. at this point of
life, you gotta ask yourself what values most to you.
don't worry what is going to happen next. it will happen
naturally.
have faith.
Step one: Stop trying to have a baby with this bitch.
Step two :See a lawyer
Step Three: Divorce your wife on the grounds of mental cruelty.
Step four :Cheers!!!
Originally posted by GreyMeow:
but i'll fix myself up first...find my self-worth, love myself more so that i won't be so compromising and cowardly. this is a promise to myself.
You're on the right track. All the energy spent worrying, wondering and second guessing the situation should be spent on nurturing something worthwhile.
Ask yourself what would you like to see 5 years down the road. Then make your decision based on that and don't look back.
*pats*
To Grey Meow,
Look within and listen to the whisper of your intuitive heart, yes, u are married now, its an instutition , are u?, u are a evolving human being, now, its apparent and palpable that u are mired in one that has become a debilitating experience.
To justify ur position now n look for reasons to stay or not stay - or even dredging up the past - is an exercise in futility!
I mention the heart - cos it never lies, but its takes COURAGE and courage is the by-product of self-love ( my meaning of self-love is self-FULFILLED from within u, not others or anything external - if it is from others or external than its not SELF-love, self-worth ... but OTHER-love, OTHER-worth). Just be aware , your inner voice is not yours - 99% of the time its been hijacked by family, society, priest, and the politician - the 4 evils - the conditioning!
Originally posted by GreyMeow:I'm 38 yrs old male. married for 7 yrs (incl. this yr). my marriage has been rough right from the start. i ve no children till now (but also mainly at certain point in our marraige, i decide i should not ve any) on the 1st 2 yrs of my marriage, she had constantly been having a bad temper scolding or critizing me on my untidiness, my hobbies, my habits, my family and so on.
i think i'm a soft-spoken and thoughful person and so i often self-reflected on her comments and start to change for her. i know i'm not an untidy person, just not as tidy as her. she likes things to be exactly the way she wanted e.g. towel folded in a certain manner, cups place at a certain position, carpet laid out flat and straight (i.e no flipped corners) etc.so, every time the house's tidinees is not up to her expectations, she will flare up and start scolding and critizing me. also,
i'm a gamer and love to diy my PC too. I also love to read books too. i often spend 5 days a week playing PC games 2-3 hrs. she knew about these before we marry but as soon as we were married, she clam down on it. again she will flare up the moment i start up my PC, saying i don't give her any attention, i wasting too much time, etc. i tried to negiotate with her to play only 1-2 hrs for 3-4 times a week but she won't have it. so i gave it up almost completely. i still play when she is out with her frens or when she is working late (which is not very often).
so i start spending more time reading. once again, she was very angry saying i spent too much money buying the books and comic and again wasting too much time. i was a little pissed off by now but still loved her, so again i compromised and cut down on all my hobbies to almost zero time or none at all.
i don't have many friends but we still meet occasionally. some of them are female. again she knew about them before marriage but won't let me go out with them at all after marriage, saying i should spend my time with her only. again, i thought maybe she is not feeling comfortable with marriage life, so i stop seeing my friends and stay with her at home most of the time or visit her parents and relatives.
by the 3rd and 4th yrs, i became depressed. i became very tired easily since i'm always tense, always checking the house are in order (tidy). always checking if i'm giving her enough attention. somehow i still couldn't meet up to her expectations...so, i was also always tense..readying for her next scolding. it was also this year that we talked about divorce, we had 3 major quarrels and i mentioned about divorce. initally she would agreed...but then she would back out, saying she can't live without me. she even threaten suicide. we went to marriage counseling but she coulldn't accept the counsellor's comments, got angry and said i caused the problems that make her always getting angry. so, our counselling sessions ended without any results.
by this time, i lost interest in the marriage life or life in general and was in a depression. i seeked help for my condition and start taking medication. She knew about it but thought it was just for my tiredness. I also didn't bother to explain to her anymore 'cos it was getting so hard just to live another day. naturally, during these few yrs, we didn't have any sex. in the 1st 2 yrs, she was always angry. in the next 3-4 yrs, i was always tired and i started having many different problems with my health. by now, she sensed something was wrong, we talked and she agreed to change, be less controlling, less anger.
however, from the 5th yrs onwards, i found i don't love her anymore. i don't know when i stop loving her. i couldn't find back the feeling i had for her before we got married. i'm not angry with her or anything, i just don't ve any feeling for her. i still take care of her like any husband, celebrate her birthday, anniversay, valentine days, go holiday, etc. i believe she knew about it too 'cos she told me she don't want me to care for her but to love her. i tried to love her but i can't. i tried telling her it's not working but she started ignoring the problems. she rarely throw temper now but she also not facing the fact that we are both unhappy.She also start asking to have a baby.
This was when i realised i cannot continue with the marriage life. i totally think she is immature, insecure and making the situation worse if we have baby. i'm unsure how to break the problems to her 'cos each time i tried to talk about it, she will flare up again and telling me to shutup.
also, my depression is getting worse and i've visited various psychologists and psychatrists without any good. the doctors told me to talk to her parents but her parents are supportive of her to have a baby (in between there are many stories/issues at her parents side that complicate the problem of talking to them) . i'm too tired to fight her temper and ignorance now. i wish somebody can help me to solve my problem
I am taking back what I wrote cuz after reading your long story I realised that you are the real problem and you need a lot of growing up to do on your part.So...
Step One: Start spending quality time with your wife and stop being selfish
Step Two:Listen when she nags at you because those problems are probably genuine
Step Three:Take little steps to improve your marriage and if you still do not know how go see a marriage counselor instead of complaining here in Sgforums.
Step Four: Cut down on the PC games you are already 38 years old for fark sake!!!
Step 5 :Follow these steps or I would personaly go over there and beat the crap out of you.
Harlow Greymeow,
Read about ur situation and really felt deeply sorry and sad for u.
IMHO, u will have to stop lamenting. u will have to stop using depression as a reason for not acting. u will have to stop ur flawed upbringing/no frens as a reason of nothing to fall back on. u will have to stop thinking so much. u will have to stop worrying so much for others for the time being. I'm sorry to be rude.
my feeling is that u r trapped. u r trapped in a vicious cycle. the toxic environment makes u feel depressed and ur non-action towards a solution makes u more depressed which in turns contribute more to the toxin environment.
u cannot overcome a mental barrier by just mentally think abt it. u will have to take actions. and when u take actions, dun think too much. if u think too much, the mental barrier will hold u back.
as so many forumers are trying to help u and had said u cannot help others if u cannot help urself, u r just a clay bodhisattva crossing a river.
to make things simple there will be 2 roads for u:
1) take action. do wat is needed to be done. no more lamenting and blaming the rest of the world and thinking too much. depression or not, u will have to walk out of it.
2) do nothing. as long as u r oki with the consequence, feel free to do nothing.
sorry if i'm rude, really sorry. i have frens who have depressions and they all walked out of it by doing something abt it. relapse do happens but not as bad as staying in it.
Two wolves (being, INNER landscape) reside in each of us, the first is needs, fears, beliefs, jealousy, sympathy,possesivness, insecurity, fear of loss , anger, prejudice, always reacts ... the second is love, kindness, emphaty , gratitude, always responds.
The one that is fed daily evolves - whom are u feeding, even as u are reading it now?
Both is love - but with a BIG difference:
the first is ego- based personality! - it eventually suffocates and kills (accidental) - the bird is always trying to take off, but wings are always clipped - cos of bondage to ... the PARCHED DESERT - the circumference
the second is soul-infused individuality! - it is everflowing abundance (essential), it is a bird on a wing - one wing is love, and the other is freedom - the OASIS - the centre
The predicament of many is that they search and desire answers on all four quarters when the answers are within; what is missing is the essential, the accidental - aplenty!
The above is expansive - not confined to relationships or marriage but other areas of one's daily ... and what have you.
This is my experience observation and understanding, that's all
Superimposed on a circle - one can only understand , one cannot improve on a circle!
The first ripple .... watch and ....
Originally posted by Fugazzi:Two wolves (being, INNER landscape) reside in each of us, the first is needs, fears, beliefs, jealousy, sympathy,possesivness, insecurity, fear of loss , anger, prejudice, always reacts ... the second is love, kindness, emphaty , gratitude, always responds.
The one that is fed daily evolves - whom are u feeding, even as u are reading it now?
Both is love - but with a BIG difference:
the first is ego- based personality! - it eventually suffocates and kills (accidental) - the bird is always trying to take off, but wings are always clipped - cos of bondage to ... the PARCHED DESERT - the circumference
the second is soul-infused individuality! - it is everflowing abundance (essential), it is a bird on a wing - one wing is love, and the other is freedom - the OASIS - the centre
The predicament of many is that they search and desire answers on all four quarters when the answers are within; what is missing is the essential, the accidental - aplenty!
The above is expansive - not confined to relationships or marriage but other areas of one's daily ... and what have you.
This is my experience observation and understanding, that's all
Superimposed on a circle - one can only understand , one cannot improve on a circle!
The first ripple .... watch and ....
sibei chim analogy... but true true. one cannot improve in a circle.
thanks eveyone. i'll do my best to fix up myself first and then settle this relationship.
the fact that you are still looking for solutions to a 7 yr old problem proves to show that all the advice here will fall onto deaf ears.
Grey, for the sake of your mind, do wat you should hv done probably yrs old, before the dosages got to what it is today
She thinks that if no baby = you no love her.
All the reactions given by her are signs. :)
Originally posted by Lohck:the fact that you are still looking for solutions to a 7 yr old problem proves to show that all the advice here will fall onto deaf ears.
Grey, for the sake of your mind, do wat you should hv done probably yrs old, before the dosages got to what it is today
well, that's just jumping to conclusion, lohck.
in fact, coming here was the best step towards settling my problem.
i've tried many things in the past...but her temper had been very hard for me to handle for my character.
i'm seeking further help for my mind now. hope after that, i can settle troubled relationship and close this chapter of my life soon.
Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:She thinks that if no baby = you no love her.
All the reactions given by her are signs. :)
yes, i don't love her...unfortunately, she is not accepting it well and keep holding on to the relationship.