Kill or be Killed (an Abortion Story)
-
you can't compare killing the unborn with killing a human being.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Kill or to be killed wat. Utterly inane and weak reasoning... as if it was the baby's fault that he/she came into their lives... no. If their futures are to be ruined, the parents only have themselves to blame. -
yup, he did. so what are you idiots crowing about now?Originally posted by Moosmooer:If I'm hoplite's child, I rather die then to have him as a father. So maybe he did the right thing... -
that's because you're not smart enough to make that distinction between the born and the unborn.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Amazing, simply amazing, Hoplite's "logic".
If I were to follow his line of kill or be killed reasoning, let's say some day I accidently ran him down with my car... and even though I can get him to hospital on time, because this would mean that I will have to foot his bill, and worse, might kenna ban from driving... kill or to be killed... If nobody has seen anything and I can get away for it without being caught, it is hence justifiable to drive away leaving him with his legs and back broken, lungs punctured and drowning in his own frothy blood on the middle of the road...who knows? To be run over by another car... great loss. Since he lives by this logic, I think he should, you know... not mind if he dies by it as well.
So we all know who we can hit and run and not feel bad about it ok? Cool.
Why not? Being logical wat.
Kill or to be killed wat. Utterly inane and weak reasoning... as if it was the baby's fault that he/she came into their lives... no. If their futures are to be ruined, the parents only have themselves to blame.
kill the unborn, and you're ok.
kill others like that and the police will be after a hit&run killer.
i do get your logic, and to be honest, if i ran over you and there was no chance of me getting caught, i'd probably scoot too. -
i'm not here to spill sorrow. i would have posted in Aunt Agony instead. I'm here to provide support for those facing the same decision.Originally posted by m@rk:hey hoplite at first i tot u were in this forum to spill out ur sorrow ... but i realised that u r here to preach abt abort.. first of u understand hokkien i need to tell u this Kanina BU eh pua Chee bye..... u r one fu.ckin as.shole who is a coward to face the music and went to abort a life ...and to cover ur guilt u appear to be gung-ho and bravo.. if im not wrong theres a sour in ur heart but u dun dare to admit.. hey Hoplite the hopless life, if u have to fuc.king guts to face the consequences then pls dun fuc.k.. u maybe gd in talking ur gf in abortin a life but is there a inner peace inside her i dun think so... for a murderer to sleep in peace difficult lah.. ok dun act hero and say u love her so much tats y u ask her to abort the baby... as i always said ur actions does not justify or prove tat u love her.. DONT GIVE LOVE A BAD NAME
i aint a murderer.
get it! this is LEGAL. -
dont worry i would have killed you before you were ever born so this is a non issue.Originally posted by Moosmooer:If I'm hoplite's child, I rather die then to have him as a father. So maybe he did the right thing...
-
i think the whole argument boils down to this:Originally posted by the Bear:simple isn't it?
just because people think they are right, it does not give them the right to cram it down my throat...
if they don't want others interfering with their lives, they bloody jolly well NOT interfere with other people's...
in the Good Book, they call these people Pharisees and hypocrites...
Is an Embryo Human or just potential human. -
hey now, even they have a right to speak, no matter what rubbish it may be.Originally posted by AzRaeL:yup, he did. so what are you idiots crowing about now? -
i believe it's a human already...
HOWEVER,
it is still not illegal and what i believe has got nothing to do with what you believe... and what you believe and your actions are yours, and whatever consequences you are willing to shoulder is yours too...
and i have no right to make them nor force my beliefs on you...
i may not support your actions, but i support your rights to take that action... most do not even know that there is a difference between this twoOriginally posted by Hoplite:i think the whole argument boils down to this:
Is an Embryo Human or just potential human. -
at least you're a LOT more mature than those kids who've never had to face a situation like this. i'm not doing this for the sheer sake of it. i'm going through this so that the future will be better for us.Originally posted by the Bear:i believe it's a human already...
HOWEVER,
it is still not illegal and what i believe has got nothing to do with what you believe... and what you believe and your actions are yours, and whatever consequences you are willing to shoulder is yours too...
and i have no right to make them nor force my beliefs on you...
i may not support your actions, but i support your rights to take that action... most do not even know that there is a difference between this two -
Basically you are degrading the sanctity of life if you say that the fetus is not human. It largely depends on your viewpoints. It is a controversial issue here. Personally i think that it is a human life.
I would say that i do not support abortion. It should only be taken as the last resort. It is taking away of a life of a child by his very own parents. It can be called murder in a way - you actually devised a plan to kill the baby.
When i say last resort, it means in the scenario when the life of the mother is threatened by the baby, in which her life will be endangered in the process of giving birth to the baby. Only then i think aborting the child is justified. Other than that it's a no no.
If abortion is my last resort then what other way out is there given your current predicament?
So here's my answer:
A baby can always be given birth to and if you have no means of bringing him up, he can always be adopted by other parents who are infertile and barren. It is a win-win situation. The baby gets good foster parents, infertile parents gets a child, you do not have to take care of the baby too since you are not financially independent as of now. I would think that this is a more humane solution. Give the baby a chance to live. -
it's kinda hilarious to see a guy trying to justify his action with logic when it was his penis doing the thinking.
And please hoplite, it is your girlfriend that is having a metal object inserted into her to kill off something that was part of her. You're not the one sitting on the bed wearing a gown and your legs spread apart hanging on metal braces.
Don't even pretend you understand how your girlfriend feels. -
and you do?Originally posted by Stevenson101:Don't even pretend you understand how your girlfriend feels.
-
and you do?
Haha, you again. The fella that lies to support his stand. You thought i forgot about it? Or should i use selective ignorance?
And yes to your question Bear, i read a lot. Most people fear a simple thing like an injection (I'm no exception). A small alloy needle around 4-5 cm long.
Can you imagine the vulnerability of sitting on a bed with your legs balanced on metal braces and having the equivalent of a vaccum cleaner or wrench (Not really certain with the exact tools used for abortion) inserted in your butt and retriving a portion out of you ?
And no, you're conscious all the way. Unless of course, the abortion clinics changed their policy that i was not aware of.
Of course, you are also forgetting that the female psychology is different from males. It is easy to stand there and see your girlfriend getting wheeled into the operation theatre getting the abortion and rant about supporting abortion. -
some aliens gave him an anal probeOriginally posted by the Bear:and you do?
why does the guy always get the ENTIRE fucking blame?
maybe the girl wants sex too? -
assuming he's acting fast and not past the 7 week mark. there's always the menstrual regulation method of aborting the fetus.Originally posted by Stevenson101:it's kinda hilarious to see a guy trying to justify his action with logic when it was his penis doing the thinking.
And please hoplite, it is your girlfriend that is having a metal object inserted into her to kill off something that was part of her. You're not the one sitting on the bed wearing a gown and your legs spread apart hanging on metal braces.
Don't even pretend you understand how your girlfriend feels.
the object inserted is a thin PLASTIC (not metal) tube and a vacuum sucks out the embryo.
it's his GF going through this, not you, so let him be.
it's HIS choice, not yours. -
i read a lot too..
and here... you don't even know where or who he is... and you have even less clue who his girl is...
and you say you know her mind.. better than him...
but all you do is tell us things that go on in a clinic.. however, nothing about her mind..
yet you say you know the mind of someone you have never met better than her guy...
what's going on, Uri?
sheesh!Originally posted by Stevenson101:Haha, you again. The fella that lies to support his stand. You thought i forgot about it? Or should i use selective ignorance?
And yes to your question Bear, i read a lot. Most people fear a simple thing like an injection (I'm no exception). A small alloy needle around 4-5 cm long.
Can you imagine the vulnerability of sitting on a bed with your legs balanced on metal braces and having the equivalent of a vaccum cleaner or wrench (Not really certain with the exact tools used for abortion) inserted in your butt and retriving a portion out of you ?
And no, you're conscious all the way. Unless of course, the abortion clinics changed their policy that i was not aware of.
Of course, you are also forgetting that the female psychology is different from males. It is easy to stand there and see your girlfriend getting wheeled into the operation theatre getting the abortion and rant about supporting abortion. -
Look, hopelite, u dun even dare to face ur gf family members and tell them abt wat has happened and u are stil toking abt ur maturity and how u are matured enuff to make intelligent decisions.
Not facing up to the wrath of ur gf's parents is one mature decision? Intelligent decision? I seriously doubt it.
-
Oh now we know what type of person you are... basically now we all know who we can exploit and not feel bad about it. Everything is justifiable, as long as we are not caught. Conscience is an illusion apparently.Originally posted by Hoplite:i do get your logic, and to be honest, if i ran over you and there was no chance of me getting caught, i'd probably scoot too.
Next time I know who to mug liao. And maybe kipdap to some ulu area and torture just for kicks? Dosen't sound so much fun now does it?
Basically so your logic is, even if it's my fault and I can actually have the chance to make it better for my victim in the accident by taking him to the hospital. To make sure my future is better, I should leave him to die.
Wait one day it happens to your mother or father then see how if you'll subscribe to that kind of logic or not. But wait, we already know what your reaction will be won't it.
Basically, you are somebody who lives behind a paper-thin veener of illogic and oxymorons, pick and mix worldviews to justify your means. A pyscopathic character so to speak... only you are real, it's what you feel that matters, everybody around are just paper doll characters for you to exploit, it dosen't matter what happen to them.
Amazing, now we know who not to have as friends. -
Just the phrase that i was looking for....Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Basically, you are somebody who lives behind a paper-thin veener of illogic and oxymorons, pick and mix worldviews to justify your means. A pyscopathic character so to speak... only you are real, it's what you feel that matters, everybody around are just paper doll characters for you to exploit, it dosen't matter what happen to them. -
time out time out!Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Oh now we know what type of person you are... basically now we all know who we can exploit and not feel bad about it. Everything is justifiable, as long as we are not caught. Conscience is an illusion apparently.
Next time I know who to mug liao. And maybe kipdap to some ulu area and torture just for kicks? Dosen't sound so much fun now does it?
Basically so your logic is, even if it's my fault and I can actually have the chance to make it better for my victim in the accident by taking him to the hospital. To make sure my future is better, I should leave him to die.
Wait one day it happens to your mother or father then see how if you'll subscribe to that kind of logic or not. But wait, we already know what your reaction will be won't it.
Basically, you are somebody who lives behind a paper-thin veener of illogic and oxymorons, pick and mix worldviews to justify your means. A pyscopathic character so to speak... only you are real, it's what you feel that matters, everybody around are just paper doll characters for you to exploit, it dosen't matter what happen to them.
Amazing, now we know who not to have as friends.
you were the one who proposed to hoplite this scenario. ha!
and you're calling him a psycho? -
doesn't EVERBODY do that?Originally posted by saintboy:Just the phrase that i was looking for....
Pick and Choose world views to match our purposes.
That's how we get anything done and make any decision.
We have to choose what we wanna believe. -
Hoplite, i understand your situation.I don't condone abortion nor do i condone pre maritial sex , but at the same time, i guess your situation calls or it.However, maybe you should try to preach against pre maritial sex rather than encouraging people to abort.A life is a life you terminate it, it is considered as killing, whether it is legal or not.At the same time, i am just a bystander who does not have any rights to interfere with you life.I just hope that you won't commit such a mistake again.
Remember, you are responsible for yourself.At the same time, it takes a level of maturity to make sure you are on the right track. I just wish you and your girlfriend good luck, and value each other more than ever.Don't commit the mistake again.
Maybe a couple of years down the road, when you and your girlfriend is presumably married, i hope you remember that you once had a child and i hope you will never forget about him and his sacrifices.
You sacrifice him so that you could be together with his mom. Make sure his sacrifice is just.
Tresure her, and don't make anymore meaningless sacrifices again
I wish you and your girl friend all the best. -
no point debating over ifs. it'll be endless.Originally posted by the Bear:so, if your father is now a wifebeating child abuser, you'll go commit suicide?
my view. abortion is ok if the circumtances called for it. that's one story.
but it's another for a guy who doesn't learn from his mistake. one who feels no guilt, don't give a damn, concludes that his girlfriend won't mind the abortion and the risk of not having children just because 'she's not that crazy about kids anyway', and even go around the forum blasting 'anti-choice pro-lifers' to pull their heads out from their collective asses, boosting how mature he is (even after he admits he lacks the balls to face up to the girl's parents).
to me, this guy is a hopeless case, a menace to the society, a person i pray will never get anywhere near my life.
and i wouldn't be surprised if he comes up a few months later declaring his girl went for another abortion and boosting how this time his profound experience has taught him not to panic and how steadily he psychoed his gf for another abortion.
nah, why do i even bother. just passing time maybe... -
here's the part no one on the "pro-life" side seems to get...
IT'S HIS AND HER DECISION!
everyone's trying to force their morality on them!
you want if you are in another place, for people to force you to throw away twin babies because they think twins are evil? it's been done in tribes of africa..
same argument here..Originally posted by Moosmooer:no point debating over ifs. it'll be endless.
my view. abortion is ok if the circumtances called for it. that's one story.
but it's another for a guy who doesn't learn from his mistake. one who feels no guilt, don't give a damn, concludes that his girlfriend won't mind the abortion and the risk of not having children just because 'she's not that crazy about kids anyway', and even go around the forum blasting 'anti-choice pro-lifers' to pull their heads out from their collective asses, boosting how mature he is (even after he admits he lacks the balls to face up to the girl's parents).
to me, this guy is a hopeless case, a menace to the society, a person i pray will never get anywhere near my life.
and i wouldn't be surprised if he comes up a few months later declaring his girl went for another abortion and boosting how this time his profound experience has taught him not to panic and how steadily he psychoed his gf for another abortion.
nah, why do i even bother. just passing time maybe... -
yea and seriously, i'll thank god for that.Originally posted by Hoplite:dont worry i would have killed you before you were ever born so this is a non issue.