Kill or be Killed (an Abortion Story)
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of course it's his & her decision and it's within their rights! i 100%support that sentence.Originally posted by the Bear:here's the part no one on the "pro-life" side seems to get...
IT'S HIS AND HER DECISION!
everyone's trying to force their morality on them!
you want if you are in another place, for people to force you to throw away twin babies because they think twins are evil? it's been done in tribes of africa..
same argument here..
but look here, i'm not blasting him for the abortion. i'm blasting his attitude after the abortion. that's the difference
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Ok, then see it this way, i kill you because i feel that it is my right to kill you, and it is my decision to kill you.Would my rights still apply in such circumstances?Originally posted by the Bear:here's the part no one on the "pro-life" side seems to get...
IT'S HIS AND HER DECISION!
everyone's trying to force their morality on them!
you want if you are in another place, for people to force you to throw away twin babies because they think twins are evil? it's been done in tribes of africa..
same argument here.. -
you know, in the past, it would have been...
as it would have been my right to defend myself...
BTW, if a man is sentenced to hang, would you go and spring him?Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Ok, then see it this way, i kill you because i feel that it is my right to kill you, and it is my decision to kill you.Would my rights still apply in such circumstances? -
You are so ELOQUENT but so immature.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Oh now we know what type of person you are... basically now we all know who we can exploit and not feel bad about it. Everything is justifiable, as long as we are not caught. Conscience is an illusion apparently.
Next time I know who to mug liao. And maybe kipdap to some ulu area and torture just for kicks? Dosen't sound so much fun now does it?
Basically so your logic is, even if it's my fault and I can actually have the chance to make it better for my victim in the accident by taking him to the hospital. To make sure my future is better, I should leave him to die.
Wait one day it happens to your mother or father then see how if you'll subscribe to that kind of logic or not. But wait, we already know what your reaction will be won't it.
Basically, you are somebody who lives behind a paper-thin veener of illogic and oxymorons, pick and mix worldviews to justify your means. A pyscopathic character so to speak... only you are real, it's what you feel that matters, everybody around are just paper doll characters for you to exploit, it dosen't matter what happen to them.
Amazing, now we know who not to have as friends.
dropping down to personal attacks and rattling off topic.
so i shall not really bother answering your post in full.
it's my choice okay? live with it.
if you can't handle it? too fcuking bad! -
thank you centurion. as for premarital sex, i think i'll take the advice and try to get her on the pill. dont tell me you've never had premarital sex before.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Hoplite, i understand your situation.I don't condone abortion nor do i condone pre maritial sex , but at the same time, i guess your situation calls or it.However, maybe you should try to preach against pre maritial sex rather than encouraging people to abort.A life is a life you terminate it, it is considered as killing, whether it is legal or not.At the same time, i am just a bystander who does not have any rights to interfere with you life.I just hope that you won't commit such a mistake again.
Remember, you are responsible for yourself.At the same time, it takes a level of maturity to make sure you are on the right track. I just wish you and your girlfriend good luck, and value each other more than ever.Don't commit the mistake again.
Maybe a couple of years down the road, when you and your girlfriend is presumably married, i hope you remember that you once had a child and i hope you will never forget about him and his sacrifices.
You sacrifice him so that you could be together with his mom. Make sure his sacrifice is just.
Tresure her, and don't make anymore meaningless sacrifices again
I wish you and your girl friend all the best. -
what attitude? i get morons like you and that Tyranosaur telling me what i can or cannot do with my life.Originally posted by Moosmooer:of course it's his & her decision and it's within their rights! i 100%support that sentence.
but look here, i'm not blasting him for the abortion. i'm blasting his attitude after the abortion. that's the difference
of course i'm gonna fcuk you all up.
Thanks Bear though. -
nope, the fetus is not recognized as a sentient life form and hence doesn't have the same rights as you and me.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Ok, then see it this way, i kill you because i feel that it is my right to kill you, and it is my decision to kill you.Would my rights still apply in such circumstances? -
I see you are delusioned by yourself. The fact that your gf has to undergo this abortion is due to your misjudgement.Originally posted by Hoplite:i'm not crying over spilled milk, i'm just giving a point of view and to support those of you having to face an abortion.
Just do it. it's better in the long run.
Alas, that flimsy condom is all we have.
It seems to me you are glorifying your own actions by saying 'it's better in the long run'. Sure it may be 'better' for you, but spare a thought for the unborn featus.
Its' nothing to be proud of, I'm disgusted that you are encouraging more unprepared parents to abort the child. -
No and never. I stick to my stance that it should be done only after mrriage.I urge you to control your desires. It is simply not worth it to destroy another life.To repeatedly kill one person after another, it simply degrades you character.So please i beg you, why not wait for a couple of years later and settle down first before thinking of expending your urges?Originally posted by Hoplite:thank you centurion. as for premarital sex, i think i'll take the advice and try to get her on the pill. dont tell me you've never had premarital sex before. -
I see. So in your point of view, we should make some kind of fetus farm, where we genetically grow little unborned babies, cook them in curry with extra garlic and coconut milk and market it out because legally they do not have the rights to live?Originally posted by Hoplite:nope, the fetus is not recognized as a sentient life form and hence doesn't have the same rights as you and me. -
Anyway, a mistake is a mistake.No need to try to paint black into white.While under you circumstances it was a neccesary proceedure, it could have been prevented by simply controlling your urges. Why don't you just accept that and learn from it?How many abortions can you make, or rather how many potential children will you kill before your spouse or girlfriend's body finally gets harmed?Please, i am not trying to impose my morals over you, but it is just that i don't see the worth of killing so many humans just because you want one night's pleasure.You are simply shaking off your responsibility as a person as a whole this way.Love is not just about sex.Love is the responsibility and the dedication involved with each other.You might as well go and have a one night stand if you want a sexual relationship so much.Please, learn to be a hman.Learn to love your girl friend as a person, not a reusable toy where your child is just an unwanted waste product destined for the dumps.I urge you not to commit the same mistake agin.
I wish you all the best. -
awww you're just pissy that you can't convince me.Originally posted by tIfosI:I see you are delusioned by yourself. The fact that your gf has to undergo this abortion is due to your misjudgement.
It seems to me you are glorifying your own actions by saying 'it's better in the long run'. Sure it may be 'better' for you, but spare a thought for the unborn featus.
Its' nothing to be proud of, I'm disgusted that you are encouraging more unprepared parents to abort the child.
i'm not doing this out of spite, we really need to get rid of the problem.
i am from a fairly well known family so the scandal ensuing should we allow the kid to live would be quite unpleasant. -
Ah yes, basically you have admitted in full the flawed nature of your reasoning and hence now resort to the most predictable of human reactions in order to feel better about yourself.Originally posted by Hoplite:You are so ELOQUENT but so immature.
dropping down to personal attacks and rattling off topic.
so i shall not really bother answering your post in full.
it's my choice okay? live with it.
if you can't handle it? too fcuking bad!
I'll not the type to rub it in, but I feel that maybe spelling it out would help others like you not to make your mistake, that's what matters.
So the points are as follows:
a) Hoplite's line of reasoning, as have been conclusively proven, is utterly and absubly flawed. He picks and mixes worldviews and lines of reasoning to justify whatever he is doing without really even knowing what they imply, as I have shown quite clearly.
b)Basically, this show's he's not the macho or hot-blooded hero he makes himself to be here, uttering off supposedly macho rebuttals and vulgarities. But in actual fact, what a person he really is, is somebody who is broken, sad and frightened person. Basically an attempt to paint black to white is an instincive reaction to make him able to contuine.
c)Hence it can be concluded that the stuff he says here don't really hold water, they are not logical reasonings of a sound person, but a hastily knitted-together quilt of illogic and contradiction. A facade he sets up to prevent himself from collasping from the true grotesque nature of what he has done, to hide himself from the ugly truth.
Having said that, basically we can learn a few lessons from his sad case.
1.) Don't make such mistakes, think before you leap.
2.) If you go wrong, do your best to make it right rather then going for the easy way out that will only hurt others around.
3.) Don't whitewash them or justify them. It's better to admit the mistake and learning from it then deciding to embrace it and justify it. Which in the end, will only turn you into the monster he is rapidly becoming.
Basically the worst enemy of hoplite in this case in reality is not his parents, it's not his GF, it's not "morons" like us who point out the blatantly obvious to him, and it's certainly not his child, who is innocent but took the rap for him anyway (and you though it was the role of parents to protect their children).
The worst enemy of hoplite in reality, is himself. He has met the enemy, and it is him. He is his own worst enemy. Unless he decides to come out from his shell and face up to what he has done like a real man instead of hiding behind a false facade of cigar-chewing toughness (which anybody can see through the the real paethetic person you are in reality anyway), things will just be downhill in the future for him.
I know I have the conviction that in the future I can look my child straight in the eye and tell him that he never had a brother or sister that was not wanted and tossed away. That's something I think everybody should strive for. -
Hmmm if my parents ever told me that i had an earlier sibling that was tossed away, i'd be like...Oh..less to share inheritence with.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I know I have the conviction that in the future I can look my child straight in the eye and tell him that he never had a brother or sister that was not wanted and tossed away. That's something I think everybody should strive for. -
Is money really everything??
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Stereotyping is the hopeless case of ignorance.Originally posted by AzRaeL:doesn't EVERBODY do that?
Pick and Choose world views to match our purposes.
That's how we get anything done and make any decision.
We have to choose what we wanna believe. -
I wonder whats your point... to open yourself up to flak? U should know that If u post it here u're bound to have ppl who support u n ppl who slag you. If u dun wanna be slagged by the pro-life ppl then why let them know in the 1st place? duh............ anyway.......... too bad something like that has happened........ im not religious but do pray for the soul of your baby...... what is done is done. I won't say if it is right or wrong, but find peace with yourself and do not dwell on it anymore. Cherish her and be happy.Originally posted by Hoplite:the Unthinkable happened!
a month ago, my gf discovered that she was pregnant.
oh dear what to do? we were in a panic.
keeping the baby was NOT an option. I'm still in NS and she is in JC.
She would probably be kicked out of school if she had the baby. So little choice had we: Kill or be Killed.
We made an appointment and have the procedure slated for the end of July.
Do we ask for forgiveness? No. We did what we had to do.
Did we use a condom? Yes, but did you realize that they have a 10% failure rate?
I love her, yes I do. If we had the baby, her family would probaby Never let her see me again. Yes, there's a risk that she would have problems with future babies, but everything has a risk. Besides, She's not that crazy about kids anyway.
I wish all you anti-choice pro-lifers would pull your heads out from your collective asses and let us Make the Choices that We have to make.
Call me a Murder if it makes you happy. But i dont give a damn. -
not me......... i'll want to be 100% safe from any dilemma such as this... i think so would she.....heehee.Originally posted by Hoplite:thank you centurion. as for premarital sex, i think i'll take the advice and try to get her on the pill. dont tell me you've never had premarital sex before.
But like what my gal always says, its up to you....... or in your case the both of you... u know no matter what everybody else says, ultimately its your choice ok? we all live our own lives and make our decisions. -
hey btw.... can pte msg me... what family u from? very curious to know.... don't worry i'm not gonna spread it or anything.Originally posted by Hoplite:awww you're just pissy that you can't convince me.
i'm not doing this out of spite, we really need to get rid of the problem.
i am from a fairly well known family so the scandal ensuing should we allow the kid to live would be quite unpleasant. -
I totally disagree. let say, if u'll the child, when u grow n reliase the truth that ur bilogical parents abandon you for whatever reason, how would you feel? will you feel that u r a child that nobody wants even though ur foster parent treat u v.good. The hurt are there forever... own parents are always better than foster... "blood thicker than water" do you get the meaning of this?Originally posted by saintboy:A baby can always be given birth to and if you have no means of bringing him up, he can always be adopted by other parents who are infertile and barren. It is a win-win situation. The baby gets good foster parents, infertile parents gets a child, you do not have to take care of the baby too since you are not financially independent as of now. I would think that this is a more humane solution. Give the baby a chance to live. -
There are many success stories in such. I heard of pple who are the result of rape cases, they struggled through their childhood no doubt. But in the end they overcome life and face it. Its not fair if you don't even give the child a chance to prove himself isn't it?Originally posted by lv_gal:I totally disagree. let say, if u'll the child, when u grow n reliase the truth that ur bilogical parents abandon you for whatever reason, how would you feel? will you feel that u r a child that nobody wants even though ur foster parent treat u v.good. The hurt are there forever... own parents are always better than foster... "blood thicker than water" do you get the meaning of this? -
it Hoplite's problem so why seem everyone like quarrelin who is rite, who is wrong? Everyone have it own views n no matter how u think u r rite in this issue, others might think negatively. so let's Hoplite to do what he please, this is his decision, his responsibilites and whatever sins or guilt, it's he who is facing it...
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neither i say abort the child. it's hard decision. like u said, Its not fair if you don't even give the child a chance to prove himself but what if the child reali had the thought of what i mention above? arent his/her life will be more miserable? so no one can predict what will happen in future. and whatever we said, it's no point. let the victim to decide whether to give birth or nt. cos it is their responsibities to all. n whatever guilt, they r the one to suffer. we r nt in their shoes, we wont feel the hard decision n consequences they might facing. maybe when it ur turn, u might think n act differently from what u said now.....Originally posted by saintboy:There are many success stories in such. I heard of pple who are the result of rape cases, they struggled through their childhood no doubt. But in the end they overcome life and face it. Its not fair if you don't even give the child a chance to prove himself isn't it? -
Forums is not the best means of solving difficult crisis in life. It can't be taken too seriously, it's only an extra avenue of new ideas. IMHO, hoplite and his gf will probably receive the best advice from a counsellor instead of weighing the reasons here. The professionally trained counsellor will most probably advice him to abort though.Originally posted by lv_gal:it Hoplite's problem so why seem everyone like quarrelin who is rite, who is wrong? Everyone have it own views n no matter how u think u r rite in this issue, others might think negatively. so let's Hoplite to do what he please, this is his decision, his responsibilites and whatever sins or guilt, it's he who is facing it... -
So now we do that to an unborn child in the mother's womb.Originally posted by Hoplite:that's because you're not smart enough to make that distinction between the born and the unborn.
kill the unborn, and you're ok.
kill others like that and the police will be after a hit&run killer.
i do get your logic, and to be honest, if i ran over you and there was no chance of me getting caught, i'd probably scoot too.