Sun He Yao Sun
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But then i like your website recommendation.. Neon will like it too.. ok. be serious. not everybody thinks it that way. that is true and false doctrine, which one is truth which one is false? Are u v.certain?? only the Bible says so, so pls.... read it yourself and meditate.. receive the word from God and not from somebody's writing.. understand... bless the Lord...!!Originally posted by Icemoon:So what if there are females in SBC? Do they all get ordained in the end? Are all grads of SBC automatically pastors?
It's not serious misinterpretation. The apostle Paul did state that males should run the church. By the way, I'm not discriminating women. They do play an important part in the ministry. And there are many deconess in the ministry. There's nothing wrong with that.
PS: Before accusing me further of serious misinterpretation of the bible, please read http://www.carm.org/questions/womenpastors.htm ... and read 1Tim 2:12 - In a church is there any ministry a woman can lead, whilst men are in that group?
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i completely salute ms sun in generating monies from the sale of her albums to the needy.
To big bird
People might argue that pple spend so much money buying copies of her album when actually one will do. I suppose its better to let the young donate to the needy dan to splurge on branded goods cigarettes and alcohol. Well, we can juz take it dat we are donating money and getting an album from sun ho as a token of appreciation. I agree wif qwerty dat at least she bothers to do something for the public and i am very sure most of us wont do such a thing if we are her so we can conclude she is one who is very sincere and kind. So pls stop flaming sun ho and for a change reflect on our own actions and start thinking of how we would act if we were her. I seriously wonder how many pple would be as generous as her. Pls respect her
Lets assume she really did put in all her profit into charity since u guys believe in it so much.
First, why don't u people donate the money to the charity directly then ? Does the record companies throw in their profit for charity ? I don't think so and they r the ones that earned the biggest profit. Charity will get more if u donate directly isn't it ? For $100 profit from CD, $80 or more go to record comapnies, admin and managerial staff, song writers, lyrics fillers, music players and producer. If u guys r so kind and buy the CD just for charity, I think u should start reflecting on your own action and start thinking whether r u being economical on tis.
People r after different things. Some go for money, some go for power, some go for fame. And she don't need any much money in the first place since she is living rather comfortably now. I have asked tis question before. Wat cars r the 2 driving now ? Wat r the size of their house ? Can anyone answer me on tat ?
And regarding to issue about whether will normal people donate the money from their work to charity. My answer is no. However I find those stars tat worked hard and use their own hands to carve out a niche themselves r more admirable than someone tat made use of her special status and religion to fulfil some ambitions of hers. I like a star more for being frank into telling people he spent the money on buying a big white elephant then one tat claims she put all her earnings into charity. Whether she really put it inside charity doesn't matter. The mere fact tat she publicises tis statement is bad enough. To me tat is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Tis is especially so when she was too overrated and act like a goody goody two shoes.
So u wanna repeat sending tat same reply again ? -
Originally posted by Welsh:
I believe if we meditate, we'll get the same answer, that woman should not be pastor AND woman are not to be discriminated upon. I believe the scriptural evidence is very clear, even if you ignore the comments by the author. Meditations have to be checked against reality and bible hermeneutics.
read it yourself and meditate.. receive the word from God and not from somebody's writing.. understand... bless the Lord...!!
Yes .. bless the Lord =) -
SO what's your point?Originally posted by stupidissmart:To big bird
Lets assume she really did put in all her profit into charity since u guys believe in it so much.
First, why don't u people donate the money to the charity directly then ? Does the record companies throw in their profit for charity ? I don't think so and they r the ones that earned the biggest profit. Charity will get more if u donate directly isn't it ? For $100 profit from CD, $80 or more go to record comapnies, admin and managerial staff, song writers, lyrics fillers, music players and producer. If u guys r so kind and buy the CD just for charity, I think u should start reflecting on your own action and start thinking whether r u being economical on tis.
People r after different things. Some go for money, some go for power, some go for fame. And she don't need any much money in the first place since she is living rather comfortably now. I have asked tis question before. Wat cars r the 2 driving now ? Wat r the size of their house ? Can anyone answer me on tat ?
And regarding to issue about whether will normal people donate the money from their work to charity. My answer is no. However I find those stars tat worked hard and use their own hands to carve out a niche themselves r more admirable than someone tat made use of her special status and religion to fulfil some ambitions of hers. I like a star more for being frank into telling people he spent the money on buying a big white elephant then one tat claims she put all her earnings into charity. Whether she really put it inside charity doesn't matter. The mere fact tat she publicises tis statement is bad enough. To me tat is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Tis is especially so when she was too overrated and act like a goody goody two shoes.
So u wanna repeat sending tat same reply again ?
If you have eyes to see but see wrongly..
Ears to hear but through a lot of dirt and clogs..
Depart from all these murmuring.. for the truth will not know u, if you have such a judgemental heart. Who says you can judge? only the highest got the right to do that.
SO what's your point again? IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT just back a step la... nobody is minding your business now so don't poke your nose to other's people business. i just don't like it....
PEACE PEACE....
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oh ya.. how can u be so sure that what you have said here is 100% correct???? Evidence pls...... i mean from your own meditation... it's just a chicken and egg question. Don't just get 2nd hand revelation dude.Originally posted by Icemoon:I believe if we meditate, we'll get the same answer, that woman should not be pastor AND woman are not to be discriminated upon. I believe the scriptural evidence is very clear, even if you ignore the comments by the author. Meditations have to be checked against reality and bible hermeneutics.
Yes .. bless the Lord =) -
y don u read the replies properly again b4 u post any comments... let me set u the senerior... i and my christian gf has been going out 4 bout 2 months n we r serious bout each other... then this friend of ours came to noe bout our relationship n thus all the troubles began... this friend has since became our ex-friend and she is from CHC... get the picture nw?Originally posted by devwei:Sorry huh....
My English not very good......
Weidev... You are trying to say you try to "xian" one christian chick last time but genna stop by CGL. It just show that your "Gao puay" not at home loh.... I got a lot christian friends also... They are try to influence me but i also bo chap them.... I also buy one CD myself... after that don't buy liao... Find her music still ok... then don't buy liao loh... Weidev relax lah... xian one christian chick successfully liao... take it easy... Dun be agaitated and go crazy... scold vulgar language liddat shows that you no taste loh... why make your standard so low....
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OH... good move.. you use this to tackle this church.. hmm.. makes me wonder what a good revenger you are... peace pls my brother...Originally posted by weidev:y don u read the replies properly again b4 u post any comments... let me set u the senerior... i and my christian gf has been going out 4 bout 2 months n we r serious bout each other... then this friend of ours came to noe bout our relationship n thus all the troubles began... this friend has since became our ex-friend and she is from CHC... get the picture nw? -
my i have so many bad experiences from this church u won wan 2 hear bout it....Originally posted by Welsh:OH... good move.. you use this to tackle this church.. hmm.. makes me wonder what a good revenger you are... peace pls my brother... -
Originally posted by Welsh:
I often find christians overusing the "judging rule", that only God can judge. Many a times it's just a convenient rebuttal which serve no point in formal argument. Ask yourself Welsh, aren't you guilty of the same sin when you accuse (read: judge) someone of a judgement heart? Who are you to say he has a judgemental heart? So you see, this will go forever in cycles.
you have such a judgemental heart. Who says you can judge? only the highest got the right to do that.
so don't poke your nose to other's people business. i just don't like it....
HYS is not exactly other people, any Mary or Susan along Orchard Road. She's a public figure who probably exert strong influence on many people (her fans), as with many idols. Hence she's supposed to stand up to public scrutiny.
Of course this does not mean we can slander her like nobody business in a public forum. It's ok to comment on her, with justification. Never disclose any previously unknown facts unless we have strong evidence to back them up. -
^5Originally posted by Icemoon:I often find christians overusing the "judging rule", that only God can judge. Many a times it's just a convenient rebuttal which serve no point in formal argument. Ask yourself Welsh, aren't you guilty of the same sin when you accuse (read: judge) someone of a judgement heart? Who are you to say he has a judgemental heart? So you see, this will go forever in cycles.
HYS is not exactly other people, any Mary or Susan along Orchard Road. She's a public figure who probably exert strong influence on many people (her fans), as with many idols. Hence she's supposed to stand up to public scrutiny.
Of course this does not mean we can slander her like nobody business in a public forum. It's ok to comment on her, with justification. Never disclose any previously unknown facts unless we have strong evidence to back them up. -
ok. so i am also committing sin, this i agree... but somehow i really feel lots of injustice in this matter... are u guys her??? Are you guys God? i don't dare to say that what she do is 100% correct.. and of coz i am not God. But what's your motive for doing all these? i mean are u happier after you have said all these? you only make yourself more agitated and disturbed than ever (spiritually i mean).. during the end of this race we will know ok.Originally posted by Icemoon:I often find christians overusing the "judging rule", that only God can judge. Many a times it's just a convenient rebuttal which serve no point in formal argument. Ask yourself Welsh, aren't you guilty of the same sin when you accuse (read: judge) someone of a judgement heart? Who are you to say he has a judgemental heart? So you see, this will go forever in cycles.
HYS is not exactly other people, any Mary or Susan along Orchard Road. She's a public figure who probably exert strong influence on many people (her fans), as with many idols. Hence she's supposed to stand up to public scrutiny.
Of course this does not mean we can slander her like nobody business in a public forum. It's ok to comment on her, with justification. Never disclose any previously unknown facts unless we have strong evidence to back them up.
Never disclose any previously unknown facts unless we have strong evidence to back them up -i like this sentence so i hope you practice what you preach.
Icemoon can i be your friend, you lovely highness? -
I do not have to answer you on this. I've cited scriptural evidence and that article was quite clear on the explanation. There's no way to give evidence of any meditation; the Bible is the basis of any meditation.Originally posted by Welsh:oh ya.. how can u be so sure that what you have said here is 100% correct???? Evidence pls...... i mean from your own meditation... it's just a chicken and egg question. Don't just get 2nd hand revelation dude.
I also believe the view that woman should not be pastor is held by many christians. The onus is on you to prove otherwise, that woman should be pastor. Do not say your meditation told you that, for there's no way to "check" your meditation.
Let's not go into epistemology here. Or what is Truth and what is Knowledge. -
About the issue of whether women r suitable for pastor, here is my 2 cents worth
I didn't go and read the website given by icemoon, however I guess it is common knowledge tat the bible was already written in a pro-male manner. I believe for some studies people say tat the word woman appears only once in the whole bible. Hence it is not difficult for me to believe just by strictly reading, taking the meaning literally from the bible, the conclusion will arrive tat a woman cannot be a pastor.
And if the bible says so, then the pastor or pope or whoever human cannot change tat fact, even if "God" has given them a 'calling' etc. Why not ? I just give an example. Osama and Abu Bashir receive a calling from 'God' to start a jihad too, thus does tat means they r right ? Tis doesn't meant any offence to muslim, my point is tat if people can start using "calling" as a reason, then I can do anything under the sun, like murder and rape, and in the end point the finger to God claiming "I receive a calling for me to do it". Tat will be taining the name of Him isn't it ?
Human aren't design like God. They aren't perfect and there will always be abusers. Thus religiously speaking, people had to follow strictly to the bible. People can only argue on the interpretation of the bible, and not about changing the content in the bible.
Wat ? U feel something is wrong here ? U don't agree with teachings there ? U don't agree with me ? U don't agree with the website ?
Heh... tell u, the problem is not solely on the reader of the bible, since we r designed inperfect and understanding of the bible will remains inpefect. Part of the blame should be on the writer of the bible itself.
Nuff said... I try to stop being an "anti evangelist" before I got bombarded. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Interesting.... v. interesting....... what is anti evangelist? why? Why? WHY?
About the issue of whether women r suitable for pastor, here is my 2 cents worth
I didn't go and read the website given by icemoon, however I guess it is common knowledge tat the bible was already written in a pro-male manner. I believe for some studies people say tat the word woman appears only once in the whole bible. Hence it is not difficult for me to believe just by strictly reading, taking the meaning literally from the bible, the conclusion will arrive tat a woman cannot be a pastor.
And if the bible says so, then the pastor or pope or whoever [b]human cannot change tat fact, even if "God" has given them a 'calling' etc. Why not ? I just give an example. Osama and Abu Bashir receive a calling from 'God' to start a jihad too, thus does tat means they r right ? Tis doesn't meant any offence to muslim, my point is tat if people can start using "calling" as a reason, then I can do anything under the sun, like murder and rape, and in the end point the finger to God claiming "I receive a calling for me to do it". Tat will be taining the name of Him isn't it ?
Human aren't design like God. They aren't perfect and there will always be abusers. Thus religiously speaking, people had to follow strictly to the bible. People can only argue on the interpretation of the bible, and not about changing the content in the bible.
Wat ? U feel something is wrong here ? U don't agree with teachings there ? U don't agree with me ? U don't agree with the website ?
Heh... tell u, the problem is not solely on the reader of the bible, since we r designed inperfect and understanding of the bible will remains inpefect. Part of the blame should be on the writer of the bible itself.
Nuff said... I try to stop being an "anti evangelist" before I got bombarded. [/b]
So why woman cannot be a paster? must be a pester? -
Well, all I can say is she's in the entertainment circle and this is a price to pay for being in it. God gives us freedom, but we humans pay the consequence for our actions, whether it is bringing grief to the family, or tarnishing the name of the church.Originally posted by Welsh:ok. so i am also committing sin, this i agree... but somehow i really feel lots of injustice in this matter
Icemoon can i be your friend, you lovely highness?
So far I hope nobody has been releasing previously undisclosed information.
Yeah yeah .. I'm a guy, it's my honor to be your friend too. -
Forgive and forget and just be happy on your free-thinking or whatever u call that. ok.Originally posted by weidev:my i have so many bad experiences from this church u won wan 2 hear bout it....
i care for u. i care for your well-being, not saying nonsensical here..
i don't wan u to keep this bitterness and resentment inside your heart. it won't do u good in the long run. enjoy your life with ur gf if you think you have a clear conscience lor. ok. my bro.
now i am not joking. -
double post
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HUH. your name sounds so lady-like.Originally posted by Icemoon:Well, all I can say is she's in the entertainment circle and this is a price to pay for being in it. God gives us freedom, but we humans pay the consequence for our actions, whether it is bringing grief to the family, or tarnishing the name of the church.
So far I hope nobody has been releasing previously undisclosed information.
Yeah yeah .. I'm a guy, it's my honor to be your friend too.
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HUH. your name sounds so lady-like.Originally posted by Icemoon:Well, all I can say is she's in the entertainment circle and this is a price to pay for being in it. God gives us freedom, but we humans pay the consequence for our actions, whether it is bringing grief to the family, or tarnishing the name of the church.
So far I hope nobody has been releasing previously undisclosed information.
Yeah yeah .. I'm a guy, it's my honor to be your friend too. you noe the ice in the moon. moon got chang er.. so lady-like.. how can be -
thanks in christian terms... "brother welsh"Originally posted by Welsh:Forgive and forget and just be happy on your free-thinking or whatever u call that. ok.
i care for u. i care for your well-being, not saying nonsensical here..
i don't wan u to keep this bitterness and resentment inside your heart. it won't do u good in the long run. enjoy your life with ur gf if you think you have a clear conscience lor. ok. my bro.
now i am not joking. -
Haha .. don't forget moon also got yue4 lao3 .. or even the man (woodcutter?) together with chang-er on the moon .. lolOriginally posted by Welsh:you noe the ice in the moon. moon got chang er.. so lady-like.. how can be -
Brother wei wei (weidev)..... Aiya... relad lah.... so angry and bitter wait hor got heart attack go hell leh... relad and forgive lah....Originally posted by weidev:thanks in christian terms... "brother welsh"
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have you notice what you just said is what PAUL says? no doubt, he is a great servant of the lord, but you notice everytime, he say something like this, he quote it to himself, not the lord. read NIV.........Originally posted by Icemoon:Huh, where was I shown to be anti-woman? My point was to correct the poster. The bible stand is that woman should not be pastor. And I've shown rather conclusively that I'm right. -
wa... "brother devwei" don worry la... b4 i go hell all those hypocrites will go hell first... if nt i can pull them down with me lor...Originally posted by devwei:Brother wei wei (weidev)..... Aiya... relad lah.... so angry and bitter wait hor got heart attack go hell leh... relad and forgive lah.... 
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What are you trying to say? That Paul was blabbering nonsense to himself? So what if he quote it to himself and not the lord? You think the verse is there for show only? Using your line of reasoning, can we trust anything Paul said if he quote it to himself and not the lord?Originally posted by snk86:have you notice what you just said is what PAUL says? no doubt, he is a great servant of the lord, but you notice everytime, he say something like this, he quote it to himself, not the lord