F.U.C.K National Service
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whoa speaking from experience wor...
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Lolx! My brother bought those 2 beretta pistols... & started to shoot at every1... I juz picked up da bullets & stick it on his head...Originally posted by HENG@:yah i bought a lot of those toy ones to collect but lousy things always break after a few pops.
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Quite impossible, since BMT + OCS is 1 year liaoOriginally posted by shyman:But i do feel 2.5 years is a tad too long.. for what i have learnt from NS, i felt at most 1.5 years is more then sufficient to learn what i have learnt.
I do feel we need NS, but i think we can cut it down by a year..
Or we shall make officers serve longer? Wahahahha ... -
muahahahahaha!!!Originally posted by Bontakun:Lolx! My brother bought those 2 beretta pistols... & started to shoot at every1... I juz picked up da bullets & stick it on his head...
joker siahz! -
Here's a conversation that took place in 2000 between a 25 Year old analyst from Germany at an investment bank (these people draw close to 10K USD a month), lets call him Analyst and a 23 year old temp who just out of NS waiting to go to NTU. We will call this guy Temp.
I swear, that the temp guy is not me.
Analyst : You draw good powerpoint slides. So you are an intern set on become an analyst too?
Temp: No lar.. haha. I am going to study after June.
Analyst: Yes.. yes. Almost everyone here has an MBA. You should get it too. Its really a necessary bridge to rising to become a consultant. I did mine at Wharton and was an intern here less than 2 years ago. Prior to that, I spent 3 years on an engineering degree back home in Germany.
So where were you from?
Temp: Me? Nanyang Junior College. That's the equavalent to the senior years of high school in the US.
Analyst: You are 22 now aren't you?
Temp: Yes. After that, I got conscripted into the army for 2 and a half years. Mandatory National Service.
Analyst: ...must have been fun. After my engineering degree, I toured North and South America for several months, traveling from Seattle to Mexico alone on a back pack. Then went on for my MBA..but hey. You mean you haven't got your college degree?
Temp: Not yet. I will do it this June.
Analyst: So you will be.. 26 when I see you again back here? I hope to be somewhere else in 3 years though. Like strategy consulting at McKinsy or something. Pay's good.
Temp: I wish. But for now, its back to work at $8 an hour, drawing charts for the analyst. ha.
Today, almost 4 years later, the temp draws $2000 a month, graduated from NTU and testing sound card. Last heard, the analyst has gone on to become a senior consultant at some big name management consulting firm. He flys first class, addresses CEO and has concubines in 4 different countries. -
sad but true.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Here's a conversation that took place in 2000 between a 25 Year old analyst from Germany at an investment bank (these people draw close to 10K USD a month), lets call him Analyst and a 23 year old temp who just out of NS waiting to go to NTU. We will call this guy Temp.
I swear, that the temp guy is not me.
Analyst : You draw good powerpoint slides. So you are an intern set on become an analyst too?
Temp: No lar.. haha. I am going to study after June.
Analyst: Yes.. yes. Almost everyone here has an MBA. You should get it too. Its really a necessary bridge to rising to become a consultant. I did mine at Wharton and was an intern here less than 2 years ago. Prior to that, I spent 3 years on an engineering degree back home in Germany.
So where were you from?
Temp: Me? Nanyang Junior College. That's the equavalent to the senior years of high school in the US.
Analyst: You are 22 now aren't you?
Temp: Yes. After that, I got conscripted into the army for 2 and a half years. Mandatory National Service.
Analyst: ...must have been fun. After my engineering degree, I toured North and South America for several months, traveling from Seattle to Mexico alone on a back pack. Then went on for my MBA..but hey. You mean you haven't got your college degree?
Temp: Not yet. I will do it this June.
Analyst: So you will be.. 26 when I see you again back here? I hope to be somewhere else in 3 years though. Like strategy consulting at McKinsy or something. Pay's good.
Temp: I wish. But for now, its back to work at $8 an hour, drawing charts for the analyst. ha.
Today, almost 4 years later, the temp draws $2000 a month, graduated from NTU and testing sound card. Last heard, the analyst has gone on to become a senior consultant at some big name management consulting firm. He flys first class, addresses CEO and has concubines in 4 different countries. -
Cant be blamed... considering our back gnd... assuming U born in Europe... U wun go NS & may start career in soccer... who noes? at my age I may be like Owen in terms of financial stats? But then again, all crap tok & we born in Spore...Originally posted by HENG@:sad but true. -
The whole bunch of you..
Are
November
Alpha
Tango
Oscar.
Please, carry on and obtain a firearm from god-knows-where.
I will be glad to inform SPF, SAFPU, and GSOC on "crazed net maniac has stolen a firearm and is out to kill SAF personnel".
Hoplophobes. That's what you all are.
See a weapon, any weapon, recoil from it in disgust.
I wonder how many of you know your way around a Glock or MP5.
(Sure, CS knowledge).
Maybe when you are down there, you might come across the ghost of someone killed at Nanking, Dachau, or Sentosa. Why not ask them, if at the end, they wished they had the means to resist? -
*smirk*Originally posted by Icemoon:I think you miss the point. No-one is saying we're peaceful people without firearms, but clearly the use of firearms escalate the risk? A knifing works on contact and a shooting works on projectile.
But surely you heard of kids firing their guns to wound and kill many people?
Imagine you're the poor chap who got shot in the face in JB. At the very moment with the pistol on your face, would you rather he has a knife? Heh.
Or if you're a victim of the sniper attack in Washington. How would you feel? Betcha will think "if only he has a knife instead of his rifle" ...
Yes, you need not have a lot of training to use a gun.
On the other hand, you need years of training to be effective in unarmed combat.
Surely i have heard. yes. Columbine is just one of many school shootings. But have you heard of the many instances where a robbery, rape, house-breaking was stopped due to the homeowner being armed (not with a baseball bat/broom), but with something magazine-fed, and .45 ACP caliber?
If i was the guy who got shot in the face, i would want for nothing else, but for my assailant to be armed with a knife. At the least, i could have parried, or dodged his thrusts.
For the sniper attacks in Washington and such, if said "sniper" was armed with a bow and arrow, there would'nt have been such a commotion. And if he was throwing knives, even better.
You've never read post-apocalyptic books or seen such movies, have you? In a state of anarchy, the law of the sword and gun is all there is.
For clarification, watch Mad Max. The protagonist, armed with a stubby double barreled shotgun, is infinetely better able to defend himself, then the crazies wielding edged weapons.
THERE IS RISK INHERENT IN EVERYTHING.
I need not remind you that police officers, and on occasion, soldiers have used their arms for other purposes?
The disemmination of arms to a populace may not bring in chaos, not if it is controlled, and education given out.
Do you know at what age certain Texan children start shooting?
Do you know how many gun-related homicides are commited by such children, brought up from young with arms and indoctrinated with all the necessary training and doctrines?
Almost NONE. -
IF YOU KNOW YOUR HISTORY.Originally posted by Icemoon:Does owning a rifle change anything, other than killing a few more Japanese? If anything, it will only escalate the bloodbath. If you know the history, the Japanese MASSACRED unarmed people/civilians openly 'cos of the violent resistance faced! They even mutilated the bodies of soldiers! An account is told of bodies (think Indian soldiers?) hanging on trees along Bukit Timah Road, near the present Ngee Ann Poly. The result of the Bukit Timah battle. And the Alexandra Hospital Massacre was initiated by what? I don't think I need to go on.
I think if the males are combat trained, as in the case now, then the aggressors have no qualms about shooting into the civilian crowd, to defend themselves. ALL males are automatically suspect, since they have the capability to fight back.
WELL!
Then you should know that the allies outnumbered the japanese.
Combine that with a citizenry trained and armed, every last able-bodied man, and you get a few additional battalions of infantry.
Have you thought that a bit more resistance, and the Japanese might not even have succeeded in winning?
Wow, multilating bodies of soldiers. What a surprise. It's been around since Roman times, if not before. When your a soldier, and you know your to be mutilated or worse if you surrender, what do you do? Fight to the death.
You Think. You think, i thought, and who's going to confirm?
By your THINKING, should we ever fall in battle, everyone above the age of 18 needs to be lined up and SHOT.
Oh, and how should we prevent the mutilation of our (soldier's) bodies while alive? The answer, fight.
I point you to Iwo Jima. There, almost every last Japanese soldier held their ground. And in doing so, won themselves a honorable death in accordance with their warrior ethos.
But wait a minute, have you went through NS?
What do you know about warrior ethos?
And what would you know about historical cases where armed militias turned back professional soldiers?
There's a recent case.
Somalia.
I rest my case. -
I agree with the above scenario. Sad to say, my current status is closer to the temp than the Analyst and I got an MBA after a getting BEng from NTU.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Here's a conversation that took place in 2000 between a 25 Year old analyst from Germany at an investment bank (these people draw close to 10K USD a month), lets call him Analyst and a 23 year old temp who just out of NS waiting to go to NTU. We will call this guy Temp.
I swear, that the temp guy is not me.
Analyst : You draw good powerpoint slides. So you are an intern set on become an analyst too?
Temp: No lar.. haha. I am going to study after June.
Analyst: Yes.. yes. Almost everyone here has an MBA. You should get it too. Its really a necessary bridge to rising to become a consultant. I did mine at Wharton and was an intern here less than 2 years ago. Prior to that, I spent 3 years on an engineering degree back home in Germany.
So where were you from?
Temp: Me? Nanyang Junior College. That's the equavalent to the senior years of high school in the US.
Analyst: You are 22 now aren't you?
Temp: Yes. After that, I got conscripted into the army for 2 and a half years. Mandatory National Service.
Analyst: ...must have been fun. After my engineering degree, I toured North and South America for several months, traveling from Seattle to Mexico alone on a back pack. Then went on for my MBA..but hey. You mean you haven't got your college degree?
Temp: Not yet. I will do it this June.
Analyst: So you will be.. 26 when I see you again back here? I hope to be somewhere else in 3 years though. Like strategy consulting at McKinsy or something. Pay's good.
Temp: I wish. But for now, its back to work at $8 an hour, drawing charts for the analyst. ha.
Today, almost 4 years later, the temp draws $2000 a month, graduated from NTU and testing sound card. Last heard, the analyst has gone on to become a senior consultant at some big name management consulting firm. He flys first class, addresses CEO and has concubines in 4 different countries.
But the difference in outcome is not dependent on whether one party went through NS while the other party didn't.
It is because one party have access to more capital (to invest in a American MBA) and opportunity (chance to use the MBA knowledge in a high-end consulting role) while the other party didn't have the capital and opportunity.
If the Temp have the access to the resources that Analyst have, he can theoritically achieve what Analyst had achieved but two/three years late. -
Okay...and your point is?Originally posted by Johnston:The whole bunch of you..
Are
November
Alpha
Tango
Oscar.
Please, carry on and obtain a firearm from god-knows-where.
I will be glad to inform SPF, SAFPU, and GSOC on "crazed net maniac has stolen a firearm and is out to kill SAF personnel".
Hoplophobes. That's what you all are.
See a weapon, any weapon, recoil from it in disgust.
I wonder how many of you know your way around a Glock or MP5.
(Sure, CS knowledge).
Maybe when you are down there, you might come across the ghost of someone killed at Nanking, Dachau, or Sentosa. Why not ask them, if at the end, they wished they had the means to resist?
BTW, I fired off, let see, HK$600/5 = 120 rounds with a Glock every month.
Nothing so far with an MP5, but does AK47 count? What about the BMW of semi-auto rilfles like G3 or the M4A1. Or CAR15 and FA-MAS? -
Hongkong?Originally posted by Xprobe:Okay...and your point is?
BTW, I fired off, let see, HK$600/5 = 120 rounds with a Glock every month.
Nothing so far with an MP5, but does AK47 count? What about the BMW of semi-auto rilfles like G3 or the M4A1. Or CAR15 and FA-MAS?
Good.
And stay there.
My point is, the majority of civilians are hoplophobes.
They don't know their way around a simple handgun.
Let's test you.
Very well. Glock? What model?
Avtomat Kalashnikov?
Improved version, with or folding stock?
Original Russian factory, or clone?
Again, G3. What is so special about the G3 and what is the operating system it utilises? Can you name at least 3 variants of the basic G3?
CAR15 and M4A1 look almost the same to a layman.
But what is the fundamental difference between them?
Furthermore, what is the difference between M4 and M4A1?
FAMAS: Original or the improved model? What is special about cases ejected from the FAMAS and the optimal ammunition you should use with it?
And by the way, 120 rounds of 9mm/ .357 / .40 / .45 does not make me blink a eye.
If you can answer all of the above questions, you have the potential to be an US SOF Weapons SGT. -
Well, history is full of "what if", what if we have more citizen soldiers, what if Yamashita or Tsuji wasn't born etc? From hindsight, it's easy to say if we have that bit of resistance, we might win, but is this the case? Who's to say too many cooks will not spoil the broth? Who's to say with your well-trained infantry battalions in place, the British will not cock up, 'cos of over-confidence or some other reasons? Everything is armchair speculation. There're simply too many variables in the equation. To be fair, I will not say whether your scenario will guarantee victory for the Allies (in spite of the fact Johore Bahru is not Dunkirk, we're not Britain and we don't have good air force and navy and a channel to prolong the battle).Originally posted by Johnston:Then you should know that the allies outnumbered the japanese.
Combine that with a citizenry trained and armed, every last able-bodied man, and you get a few additional battalions of infantry.
Have you thought that a bit more resistance, and the Japanese might not even have succeeded in winning?Wow, multilating bodies of soldiers. What a surprise. It's been around since Roman times, if not before. When your a soldier, and you know your to be mutilated or worse if you surrender, what do you do? Fight to the death.
I do not know how the common Allied soldier then viewed the Jap soldier. Is the latter bloodthristy to the extent that they mutilate every POW? But I think they know if they incur the wrath of the Japs, mutilation of soldiers and massacre of civilians is not impossible.
It's not about fighting to death. It's more of following orders. If you receive the surrender notice from your superior, then as a good soldier, you do that.
I'm not against fighting to death. I salute the heroes who did that. I was just pointing out the consequences of a stubborn resistance. You can't deny this historical fact.By your THINKING, should we ever fall in battle, everyone above the age of 18 needs to be lined up and SHOT.
What you mean? Your 'fall in battle' is too vague to reach the conclusion whether everyone need to be shot.Oh, and how should we prevent the mutilation of our (soldier's) bodies while alive? The answer, fight.
I'm not saying we should surrender when the odds are clearly against the enemy. But a desperate struggle, with little chance of winning, in chinese you call da4 shi4 yi3 qu4, the defeat following the stubborn resistance might signal another Nanking massacre. More so if the enemy has history of doing that.I point you to Iwo Jima. There, almost every last Japanese soldier held their ground. And in doing so, won themselves a honorable death in accordance with their warrior ethos.
Interesting. We were discussing that part of history when the Japs were the aggressors, now you use the later part of history when the Americans were the aggressors. Sly indeed. I'm sure you know the Americans were very less likely to massacre local civilians or mutilate the soliders compared to the Japs.And what would you know about historical cases where armed militias turned back professional soldiers?
I assume you're speaking about Mog. What you mean turned back? There were resistance, but the Americans were not eliminated. US failed in her mission to capture the warlord and his lieutenants, some soldiers were killed, and that's about it. Eventually, APCs drove by Malaysians went in. You call this turned back?
There's a recent case.
Somalia.
The Americans were very kind in trying to follow the ROE. They could just shoot into the civilian crowd or threw grenade inside a suspicious house. Civilian casualties. -
Originally posted by Johnston:
What is the basis for your reasoning? Weigh the numbers on both sides? A utilitarian worldview?
Yes, you need not have a lot of training to use a gun.
On the other hand, you need years of training to be effective in unarmed combat../quote]
Precisely. Your gun very dangerous leh. Even a kid can kill karate blackbelts this way.
[quote]Surely i have heard. yes. Columbine is just one of many school shootings. But have you heard of the many instances where a robbery, rape, house-breaking was stopped due to the homeowner being armed (not with a baseball bat/broom), but with something magazine-fed, and .45 ACP caliber?You've never read post-apocalyptic books or seen such movies, have you? In a state of anarchy, the law of the sword and gun is all there is.
What's your point here? That we're in the state of anarchy now? So we should emulate people like Mad Max?The disemmination of arms to a populace may not bring in chaos, not if it is controlled, and education given out.
Maybe. How much control and what kind of education can still be discussed. But how much your education influence the person is another thing. He can still be led astray. -
I think you can answer the questions you asked him.Originally posted by Johnston:If you can answer all of the above questions, you have the potential to be an US SOF Weapons SGT.
So do you have potential to be an US SOF Weapons SGT?
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woooo..."hong ga" "hong ga"...hats off...questions too technical...me, just pay and fire, no need to clean too, blink often too [bow and leave the stage]Originally posted by Johnston:Hongkong?
Good.
And stay there.
My point is, the majority of civilians are hoplophobes.
They don't know their way around a simple handgun.
Let's test you.
Very well. Glock? What model?
Avtomat Kalashnikov?
Improved version, with or folding stock?
Original Russian factory, or clone?
Again, G3. What is so special about the G3 and what is the operating system it utilises? Can you name at least 3 variants of the basic G3?
CAR15 and M4A1 look almost the same to a layman.
But what is the fundamental difference between them?
Furthermore, what is the difference between M4 and M4A1?
FAMAS: Original or the improved model? What is special about cases ejected from the FAMAS and the optimal ammunition you should use with it?
And by the way, 120 rounds of 9mm/ .357 / .40 / .45 does not make me blink a eye.
If you can answer all of the above questions, you have the potential to be an US SOF Weapons SGT. -
Still too early to say. And what is to die for Singapore? How?Originally posted by bladez87:
When order given, you fight. Sometimes the order come and you surrender. When you're supposed to lay down arms, do you play punk and fight to your death?
I think many of us never even seen soldiers maimed or teared down by MG bullets. Or the wound made by 5.56mm. Or your friends fall around you. Your buddy die before your eyes.
Hence it's still too early to proclaim "I will die for singapore", whether you suddenly turn garang or scared shitless when live bullets or tracers are all around you. -
I farking hate militarism.
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ai ya, MG wounds are not that bad........just some intestine dangaling and lots of bloody, and the persons boody split into half wat.......nothing much, go rotten.com can see liao.....Originally posted by Icemoon:Still too early to say. And what is to die for Singapore? How?
When order given, you fight. Sometimes the order come and you surrender. When you're supposed to lay down arms, do you play punk and fight to your death?
I think many of us never even seen soldiers maimed or teared down by MG bullets. Or the wound made by 5.56mm. Or your friends fall around you. Your buddy die before your eyes.
Hence it's still too early to proclaim "I will die for singapore", whether you suddenly turn garang or scared shitless when live bullets or tracers are all around you.
*back of to coner and start puking intesively...... -
Damn it, as good old General George S Patton says.No bastard ever wins a war by dying for his country. You win the war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:i prefer to use the word fight
if you prefer to "die" for your country i won't stop you
So don't die. Live and fight. -
x2Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Damn it, as good old General George S Patton says.No bastard ever wins a war by dying for his country. You win the war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
So don't die. Live and fight. -
Wah lan leh ... so that was Patton's line .. thought it was the invention of SAF commanders ... hahaOriginally posted by CenturionMBT:Damn it, as good old General George S Patton says ...