Singapore Olympic Team
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Originally posted by loseagain:
He was allowed cause he had played for FC Porto and stayed in Portugal for a few years, nothing to do with the colonial master thing...Initially the people of Portugal resisted this decision, but later recognised his contributions and see him as one of their stars.
Edit : But a lot of people in Singapore are still blinded and refuse to acknowledge what JiaWei and CO have done for Singapore sports. Goes to show how 'open-minded' we are compared to other countries.
again, pls check your facts. if singaporean tan ah kow plays for fc porto for a few years and want to play for portugal, do you think he will qualify even if he can kick better than deco? the reason why deco gets in is becos of the lineage rule.
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1. Culture in Singapore is? To me it's if a person is best suited for a job he/ she gets it, the person's background doesn't matter. Not always true but that's what we're telling the rest of the world anyway.
2. So those not born but bred and trained in Singapore shouldn't be accepted? Anyway to singaporeans other than chinese malay and indians all are not locals, no one would bother with whether they were born here or not.
3. I'm refering to their educational system. A chinese with a higher score loses out to a lower scoring malay in school. There are still chinese people in malaysian collegues, but I'm saying there are malays taking the places of more deserving people from other races. Is it too much to expect this in their selection for football?
4. So when Man Utd vs Sg they rooted for Man Utd, who do you think they would root for if it's England vs Singapore?
5. Locals have to look upon sports as a realistic job that is able to support them 1st i think...
Even if you take out all the FTs in our national team and invest purely on local talents how many parents are willing to take the risk instead of letting them go down the conventional path of studies and a normal job?
6. How would you know that the person you're giving the opportunity to isn't a Roger Ferderer who's just been denied in his native country? By giving him the chance to shine he's more 'made' in singapore than anywhere else. There's no such thing as instant success, if someone like lin dan wants to play for singapore he won't be able to, cause he's already played for china before ( that's the rule ). If he weren't successful in china and never got into the national team, then he came to singapore and made it big, singapore played a bigger part in his success, which in no respect is instant.
7. So if ur ah kow played for liverpool over 7 seasons and kicks better than ronaldo do you think england would enrol him in their national squad? Deco was able to cause he was never called up by brazil and his skills are better than any portugal player in his position. Ah kow would have been called up by Sg before he even kick a ball for his club if he ever made it to a european one.
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Originally posted by loseagain:
1. Culture in Singapore is? To me it's if a person is best suited for a job he/ she gets it, the person's background doesn't matter. Not always true but that's what we're telling the rest of the world anyway.
2. So those not born but bred and trained in Singapore shouldn't be accepted? Anyway to singaporeans other than chinese malay and indians all are not locals, no one would bother with whether they were born here or not.
3. I'm refering to their educational system. A chinese with a higher score loses out to a lower scoring malay in school. There are still chinese people in malaysian collegues, but I'm saying there are malays taking the places of more deserving people from other races. Is it too much to expect this in their selection for football?
4. So when Man Utd vs Sg they rooted for Man Utd, who do you think they would root for if it's England vs Singapore?
5. Locals have to look upon sports as a realistic job that is able to support them 1st i think...
Even if you take out all the FTs in our national team and invest purely on local talents how many parents are willing to take the risk instead of letting them go down the conventional path of studies and a normal job?
6. How would you know that the person you're giving the opportunity to isn't a Roger Ferderer who's just been denied in his native country? By giving him the chance to shine he's more 'made' in singapore than anywhere else. There's no such thing as instant success, if someone like lin dan wants to play for singapore he won't be able to, cause he's already played for china before ( that's the rule ). If he weren't successful in china and never got into the national team, then he came to singapore and made it big, singapore played a bigger part in his success, which in no respect is instant.
7. So if ur ah kow played for liverpool over 7 seasons and kicks better than ronaldo do you think england would enrol him in their national squad? Deco was able to cause he was never called up by brazil and his skills are better than any portugal player in his position. Ah kow would have been called up by Sg before he even kick a ball for his club if he ever made it to a european one.
I love your nick. So appropriate for the loss of Sinkapore in the table tennis match.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
I love your nick. So appropriate for the loss of Sinkapore in the table tennis match.
zzzThe the final was their 1st throughout the event. Where's the 'again' ?
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Originally posted by loseagain:
1. Culture in Singapore is? To me it's if a person is best suited for a job he/ she gets it, the person's background doesn't matter. Not always true but that's what we're telling the rest of the world anyway.
2. So those not born but bred and trained in Singapore shouldn't be accepted? Anyway to singaporeans other than chinese malay and indians all are not locals, no one would bother with whether they were born here or not.
3. I'm refering to their educational system. A chinese with a higher score loses out to a lower scoring malay in school. There are still chinese people in malaysian collegues, but I'm saying there are malays taking the places of more deserving people from other races. Is it too much to expect this in their selection for football?
4. So when Man Utd vs Sg they rooted for Man Utd, who do you think they would root for if it's England vs Singapore?
5. Locals have to look upon sports as a realistic job that is able to support them 1st i think...
Even if you take out all the FTs in our national team and invest purely on local talents how many parents are willing to take the risk instead of letting them go down the conventional path of studies and a normal job?
6. How would you know that the person you're giving the opportunity to isn't a Roger Ferderer who's just been denied in his native country? By giving him the chance to shine he's more 'made' in singapore than anywhere else. There's no such thing as instant success, if someone like lin dan wants to play for singapore he won't be able to, cause he's already played for china before ( that's the rule ). If he weren't successful in china and never got into the national team, then he came to singapore and made it big, singapore played a bigger part in his success, which in no respect is instant.
7. So if ur ah kow played for liverpool over 7 seasons and kicks better than ronaldo do you think england would enrol him in their national squad? Deco was able to cause he was never called up by brazil and his skills are better than any portugal player in his position. Ah kow would have been called up by Sg before he even kick a ball for his club if he ever made it to a european one.
7. LOL. you answered your own question. there is a little known rule, i am not sure self-imposed or not, that if you want to play for a certain country in europe, you need to prove lineage thru' ancestry or something. say joe blogg is not good enuf for england and wants to play for wales instead, he has to prove his ancestry lineage to qualify for wales, e.g. his great grandparents were born there. deco walked into portugal in about the same way, helped by no less by another brazilian, scolari.
6. again, contradicted yourself. singapore not buying `instant success' with 2 recent table tennis imports?
5. you are wrong. there is a distinct change in mindset now. the success of singapore sports school is testament to it that things are moving in the right direction, albeit slowly.
4. dun switch topic like you switch off the lights. man u vs singapore and england vs singapore is two entirely diffirent thing.
3. are we talking sports or the bumiputra policy here? helloooo......
2. sure, that's why evyonne danson is a perfect case. she's no great britain marathon champ when she settles here. only after working here and becoming a citizen, she found her flair in marathon running and she represented singapore. she, i support 110%
1. you betcha. i think half the cabinet ministers in singapore is replaceable by foreigners becos of their incompetence. starting with a certain wong. what d'ya think?
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Originally posted by loseagain:
if someone like lin dan wants to play for singapore he won't be able to, cause he's already played for china before ( that's the rule ). If he weren't successful in china and never got into the national team, then he came to singapore and made it big, singapore played a bigger part in his success, which in no respect is instant.
hi lose again,
i will prove to you (again) that you yapped without knowing much about sports and your credibility is now wafer thin.
mia audina was a top indonesian badminton player in her hey days, playing for indonesia. since 2000, she married and move to holland and has been representing holland eversince. so. which ibf rule are you referring to?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Audina
the only reason lin dan would not want to play for singapore, even for a million dollar in the london 2012 olympic is becos he is nationalistic and patriotic.
that, is priceless. for everything else, there's singapore.
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lol ! My bad.
Should have done my homework before shooting my mouth off.
Mind enlightening me on
1. The success of the sports school
2. How differently Singaporeans will take it when it's vs Man Utd or vs England
3. The bumiputra policy's presence ( or void of it ) in the sports arena of M'sia
?
Sry for writing quite a lot of shit in my previous posts, I skipped all the front pages and just as you call it, yapped, and argued for the sake of arguing.
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Originally posted by Jingle bell:
Spartans, only Singaporean holds Pink IC. If you see a foreigner holds one, then I suggest you call the police.
I read with slight amusement how many people are confused over nationality and personal pride. Our woman table tennis team are Singaporean. If one is not pride of them, then let it not be hidden behind a facade of "what defines a Singaporean".
My parents and grandparents are from China. I was born here. We are as Singaporean as the next person who holds a Pink IC. It is as simple as that.
So if someone tells me my parents and grandparents are not as Singaporean as I am, then I suggest that person checks where his parents and grandparents came from.
In sports and in life, we support different teams. Some like MU, some prefer Liverpool and even some like Blackburn Rovers. Whenever our favourite team is playing, we are proud of them. So if our woman table tennis team is not your favourite team, and when they play, then one need not be proud of them. BUT, please do not belittle them or disrespect anyone of them. It is not honourable. It is not gracious. It is definitely not Singaporean.
None the less, our woman table tennis team won an Olympic Silver medal. The nation celebrates their victory and is greatful for their accomplishment. Great job!
It will go down in history as a medal not won by Singapore but by "China". Nationality aside.
Good for u that u have chosen to call Singapore ur home. My fren, a Beijingnese till he was 8 migrated here, served his NS and now is a SIA steward. Speaks and swears in Singlish, he's a natural lol.
Fact is without the lure of big money, these new Singaporeans wouldn't have come. S$750,000 for a silver...Lee CW only got RM$350,000 for the same award. Yes of course, LJW and co. were proud to have won the medal for us but then again....time will tell if they stay for good. Why are they still here? Working hard for more Olympic medals and huge money of course. That's for sure. Loyalty, I can't affirm that yet. U think LJW and co. speak Singlish? Have u seen a PRC turned citizen/PR who speaks Singlish? Few.
And Tao Li's recent spat with SSA. Isn't that biting the hand that feeds one? U think she really thinks she is one of us?
In January 2008, Tao became embroiled in controversy after the Singapore Swimming Association (SSA) introduced a 15% levy on the cash awards given to swimmers, with about 6% set aside for youth development. As part of the government’s Multi-Million Dollar Award Programme (MAP), she received S$23,750 for winning three individual titles and one team gold at the 2007 SEA Games.
She was therefore “taxed” S$3,562.50, with S$1,425 going to youth development. Unhappy with this, Tao said: “If they [the SSA] want to cultivate youth, they should find their own money, not pay using our awards. It’s through our hard work that we got the money. So, I don’t see the point that we should give the money to the youths.” She also said it had been her school and not the SSA which had borne the expense of her overseas training. The SSA said it was “very disappointed” with her comments, and pointed out that the association had spent “easily in excess of $20,000″ in sending her for competitions abroad such as the World Championships, Hong Kong Open and Japan International, and a stint at the Australian Institute of Sport. SSA Vice-President Oon Jin Gee told the press, “Even with the Sports School funding it, it’s our taxpayers’ dollars going into her development. It doesn’t matter which avenue it comes from, it’s still Singapore’s support for her.
Source : TOC
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As with these things, time will tell.
But I believe each and every one of us has a lot of soul-searching to do when it comes to this, because I believe what happens outside is far less important then what happens inside.
Ultimately we have to think hard about what it means to be Singaporeans, but more so what it means to be decent human beings. Are the comments being made here fully fair to them? I have an issue with "buying talent" instead of developing our own, but at the same time we must not mix up a problematic system with the individuals who come in because of it.
Are their intentions pure? We cannot know. We cannot deny that there is a monentary incentive to come here but do their identification to Singapore extend beyond money? Time will tell, but in the meantime it isn't very kind or fair to expect them to jump over certain hoops like speaking Singlish or the lot.
Frankly I think it defeats the whole point of Singlish, Singlish is not something that is exclusive or snoobish but rather the collective creation of the people that make up Singapore, and this is not just limited to us Pink I.C.s, the truth is I think it's rather unfair for us to expect people from other nations to come here and pretend that they ought to be like us to the point we feel comfortable with them. Ironically, demaning that people speak Singlish to be considered Singaporeans ultimately goes against the spirit of Singlish.
There will always be some friction, but the point is not if they can speak singlish or totally become like us, but what their true heart for Singapore is. I have a Korean friend who cheers for Singapore and Korea given her experiences in both nation, if she ever becomes a Singaporean however, I do not expect her to speak perfect english or even singlish, but rather for her to bring what she has from korea and to intergrate that to what we already have. And she does use and interesting mix of singlish and konglish, which would be a loss if we only accepted her if she was like "one of us".
I think we need to seriously think about our own attitudes and behaviors to this event. I think they did us proud seriously, and that they weren't just motivated simply by being paid well. Yes there is an issue about developing local talent and what have you not, but let's not be mean and smash everything around that is not perfect out of fustration simply because of that.
Truth is I feel that if we really want Singapore sports to work out then yes we must disagree with buying talent just like that, but at the same time with what we already have accept them and help them to be included and accepted as Singaporeans, as well as using the vitality they bring to help our home grown talents.
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Singlish is like a litmus test. What is the spirit of Singlish anyway?
Well, only time will tell. If they do leave one day, then a lot words would have to be swallowed back. If they don't, likewise. Time.
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FST scheme is not a huge success.
think soccer and the few who came, donned the lion's jersey and are now `somewhere but singapore'.
think women's hockey. not too long ago, the association lock,stock and barrel imported almost an entire team of hockey players from china or mongolia, i forget. where is it now? it disintergrated even b4 the hockey sticks were distributed.
think athletics, you have an archaic organization run by a past sell-by-date saa president, and all the internal strife and problems saa has with its china-imported athletes. all these are now `media controlled'. only positive FST development are reported now.
think badminton, how much investment is made into susilo and the lesser known players. where's li li now, the manchester commonwealth badminton gold medal? she's hailed as the next great women hope in singapore's badminton despite winning a `soft gold'. we all have short memories, right? BAS is better off grooming kendrick and the upcoming local players. send them to indonesia or malaysia for 3 years to be trained with the best there. see & judge the results then.
do we really need to `buy' someone?
as i mentioned, singapore, ssc needs to be selective on the sports it wants to groom. the (local) talent is there. put them in the best environment for them to train and excel. the shooter lee spent 6months in italy honing his skills. he may be medal-less, but it is the step in the right direction. no one is guaranteed to win all the time, especially at the global level. singapore needs to be more realistic in its expectations. we can be good in only a small handful of sports.
i am also not sure if MCYS keeps count on the tax payers money wasted on FST, especially on acquisitions that gone wrong.
singapore is not a company. it has its soul, roots and identity that is deeply entrenched in its short 200+ years. and sports will not make or break a nation in its final analysis, though it will serve singapore's purpose when it does well.
but at what cost? and i am not talking just money here.......
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AiYah why argue so much ... since we so desperate for medals, we should buy someone tat can win more gold medals like Mr. Phelp. Becos after-all they pocket the money and move to somewhere more idea.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
actually nationalistic and patriotism may not have much to do with it....1. China will NOT release Lin Dan for a milliion bucks (or two)....
2. The China market is more lucrative if you are a champion, but does not exist if you are in team B. The sponsorship and the endorsment deals will set you up for life.
3. Team B folks will need to make a living too.... The China sports scene do not take too well to team B folks. So in order to live, team B will need to go somewhere else, pursue their dream or their money, which ever.....
4. The choice between being in team B and gradually relinquish to nothingless, why not go some where and be someone elses team A.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
actually nationalistic and patriotism may not have much to do with it....1. China will NOT release Lin Dan for a milliion bucks (or two)....
2. The China market is more lucrative if you are a champion, but does not exist if you are in team B. The sponsorship and the endorsment deals will set you up for life.
3. Team B folks will need to make a living too.... The China sports scene do not take too well to team B folks. So in order to live, team B will need to go somewhere else, pursue their dream or their money, which ever.....
4. The choice between being in team B and gradually relinquish to nothingless, why not go some where and be someone elses team A.
1. this is a moot point. the chinese association will not release him just as much as he will not leave. he's a PLA. his nationalistic sentiments will see him stay. of cos, he will make a some money with his recent success.
2. still, there is still only a handful sportsman who has such lucrative endorsement deal. even for lin dan, he will only make a fraction of what liu xiang or yao ming makes.
3. fair point. i have no problem with that. everyone needs to make a living.
4. again, i dun have any issue with that.
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It is ok for singapore to import foreign athletes, but should ensure by doing this will help improve the standard of the local athletes.
This time, they send the whole table tennis team imported from overseas to olympic, doesn't sound so good. Might as well buy just one person, michael phelps, then he can get 8 golds for singapore. I think with 8 millions reward, he will find it hard to resist. hehe..
China actually starts to select potential athletes since their kindergarten.
Maybe singapore can have some primary school students exchange program with other countries, of coz must let them know we want sports talent. So if the students is choosen to receive the offer to stay in singapore since very young, he will sound more "singapore".
But whether that country want to send 1st class or 2nd class sports talent, that one we can't control. -
Ok here is how Deco got portuguese citizenship.
For certain countries in Europe, footballers get the option to apply for a passport for the country they play in. They can only be accomplished after they have played 4 to 5 years in that country. Deco was able to obtain portuguese citizenship because of this law.
Salomon Kalou was offered a Dutch citizenship by the Dutch FA via this rule too but it was rejected by the Dutch government because he did not play in Holland for the required amount of years. He thus plays for his Native Ivory Coast
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Originally posted by redDUST:
1. this is a moot point. the chinese association will not release him just as much as he will not leave. he's a PLA. his nationalistic sentiments will see him stay. of cos, he will make a some money with his recent success.
2. still, there is still only a handful sportsman who has such lucrative endorsement deal. even for lin dan, he will only make a fraction of what liu xiang or yao ming makes.
3. fair point. i have no problem with that. everyone needs to make a living.
4. again, i dun have any issue with that.
I think those top sportsmen from China won't leave one.
Even singapore offer 1 million dollar per gold medal also can't help. In china, the gold winner sometimes can get a few millions renminbi for their gold, some from central government, some from the province, some from enterprise.
Furthermore, one reason why a sportsperson win is due to his patrioticism, if he leave for a strange country, his eagerness and fighting spirit will reduce accordingly, chances of getting gold will also reduce. -
Originally posted by Display Name:
I think those top sportsmen from China won't leave one.
Even singapore offer 1 million dollar per gold medal also can't help. In china, the gold winner sometimes can get a few millions renminbi for their gold, some from central government, some from the province, some from enterprise.
Furthermore, one reason why a sportsperson win is due to his patrioticism, if he leave for a strange country, his eagerness and fighting spirit will reduce accordingly, chances of getting gold will also reduce.
fair point.anyway, i am letting this rest. if a country wants to impose capital punishment, there is nothing you can do. the pros and cons of it are valid.
as in this case, the same. i think i made my case heard, but also want to move on since there is essentially no wrong answer here.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Singlish is like a litmus test. What is the spirit of Singlish anyway?
Well, only time will tell. If they do leave one day, then a lot words would have to be swallowed back. If they don't, likewise. Time.
I believe the spirit of Singlish lies in the fact that it is so inclusive that it is constantly developing from input from so many different cultures and walks of life. To clamp down on it and say that "lah" ought to be used would be to go against it's original spirit.
In fact we would then be no different from those "use queen's english elites". One might as well say that if we don't type in singlish here ah, then we are not true singaporeans and ang more sai only.
Jokes aside, of course it is a litmus test, but not in the way we think to see it. The sign that FTs are truly settling in would not be if they are using Singlish as we know it, but are adding their own input to it and developing it as well. That I feel is the whole point of Singlish, and it isn't a sad thing if we find PRCish phrases making it into the lexicon or what have you not, it means that the language is alive as it is.
Frankly if Singlish hasn't evolved 10 years from now then it'll be quite sad. As it stands every generation adds its own to the Singlish lexicon.
That aside, I don't see the point of constantly looking out at FTs and seeing how they are different from us or how they don't fit in. I think it's more apt that we first look at ourselves and see that if we have been accepting, and I don't mean the government's policies and the like, and by that I mean our culture. It's true that the policies are causing friction without doubt, but that does not mean we all stop being kind or human because of that. Ultimately the individuals are not the real issue, it is the policies and the people who make then with whom anybody who wants to raise an issue should have the beef.
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My point is, a mistake in the other direction is still a mistake. Just because we have issues with the current FT policies does not mean we go to the other extreme and lay down plenty of hard and fast rules that are not wrong in the previous way, but wrong in their own way.
The thing I believe, is balance.
Truth is, if we wanted everything to be true blue Singaporeans then we can't just stop at the first line of individuals. Our coaches should all also be local, and what about our education? Can we really boast of talents in any area unless they were raised and taught by our own people as well? What good it is our medals, achievement in arts and what have you not if they are learned from skills passed down from some FT teacher or coach who is on contract to our nation?
Ultimately where do we draw the line when it comes to "home grown" or "truly Singaporean"... the truth is, it's hard to draw that line and we can truly argue it till the cows come home.
This is because we cannot see the heart of individual, we can have a local who strives for Singapore in sports,arts or the like, but actually have nothing in for the nation in his heart and is in it for the fame and the money. On the other hand we can have an FT who has come here because of attractive options, but then his attachment to Singapore goes beyond just money and he truly wants to do his host proud and be considered one of them.
So at the end of the day, it's hard to tell. Yes there are problems, but I am not convinced going to the other extreme or even doubting loyalties and the like is really the solution. I experienced something similar in a smaller organization and truth be told it's not pretty.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
1. this is a moot point. the chinese association will not release him just as much as he will not leave. he's a PLA. his nationalistic sentiments will see him stay. of cos, he will make a some money with his recent success.
2. still, there is still only a handful sportsman who has such lucrative endorsement deal. even for lin dan, he will only make a fraction of what liu xiang or yao ming makes.
3. fair point. i have no problem with that. everyone needs to make a living.
4. again, i dun have any issue with that.
i merely want to point out that patriotism is only a small part of the entire process.... but there is no way you and I will know if the Chinese association does not release him or whether he wants to leave or not.
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Great replies S'pore T-rex! Ha though me not necessarily agreeing with all of it.
It's not easy to give up one beloved country's citizenship. Money is the only lure here. I have put myself thru this test before and I still love Sg. Having said that, I still think these PRCs are money grubbers! ha....alrght...i see where u come from anyway. I'm sure there are many who agree with u.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
JB, there is a big difference between club sports and national sports.
torres plays for liverpool as his JOB. he plays for Spain becos of his spanish blood.
you make little sense. pls discuss in context.Hi RedDust,
Think you missed the point. There is no need to bilittle people simply because they play for a team that you do not support. If you do not think our national woman table tennis team is worthy of your support, that is fine. You can support other teams but no one has the right to deny the player's contribution (and in this context, to the country).
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the road to Single medal of SG team:
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/TT/C75A/TTW001000.shtml#TTW001711
just remember go to women single(any rounds ) and Results
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/TT/C75A/TTW001000.shtml#TTW001613
click---ResultsWomen's SinglesPKU Gymnasium / Aug 20 2008--WedToday3 pmWomen's Singles Third Round
FENG Tianwei ---6 th seed vs
DANG Ye Seo6pm
BOROS TamaraLI Jia Wei (4) SIN4 th seed vs 
CRO
9pmWANG Yue Gu (5)SIN--5 th seed will face eitherWU Xue 
DOMAug 20 13:00 SANG Stephanie Xu 
AUSCheersdaily schedules herehttp://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/TT_2008-08-20.shtml -
Originally posted by Jingle bell:
Hi RedDust,
Think you missed the point. There is no need to bilittle people simply because they play for a team that you do not support. If you do not think our national woman table tennis team is worthy of your support, that is fine. You can support other teams but no one has the right to deny the player's contribution (and in this context, to the country).
i think you missed the point (completely). i am pointing out a glaring difference and error from you in context.i am not belittling you.