The truth about City Harvest Church
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lastly before i stop rpelying in this thread,
to Mr Macuz1977, advice from a non christian, go to the church and judge for youself, if you like it, you stay, if not, go look for another church (if your able to leave that is)
bottom line is, what we other forrumers like to eat think etc maybe not what u think or do.i don't like sardine ..do u like sardine kinda of anaolgy.
So feel free to post a follow up thread on the results of your trip to CHC. -
No... i not involved in CHC in any way. Except that CHC is juz a few blocks away from my home.Originally posted by SGLittle_Cat:Oh
, Are u insulting government of Singapore that they never do their job? All activities such preaching, praying ceremonies that held in churches, temples are being observed and monitored closely by government. If CHC is doing as what MLM doing, I strongly encourage u should report to police, dun juz sit here and mislead people. I believe that our government will ban the church.
Most people judge by it appearance. Nice building and advanced facilities doesn't mean people at the very top is rich. If so, logically, president of a nation is extremely super rich??? How about a monk who lead a big temple or big organization??? All u can see CHC now is the result of commitment with willingness of every believer from the church.
Juz ask u something, did u get involved in building or mission fund pledge for CHC building?
I not christian. But neither am I blind. Everyone could see what their church look like.
And I'm not insulting the govt. of SG (Although I would liked to).
But maybe I shouldn't say that CHC is like a MLM scheme. Bcoz I wasn't there personally to witness it.
However, MLM scheme, strangely enuff, are legal in SG. I dunno how to explain this, but there are MLM companies like Amway, Bellair operating with license under the govt. of SG, and else where all over the world. If CHC were to do what MLM companies does, I report police also no use. Since its legal anyway...
As a resident living in the vicintiy of CHC, I can tell u how CHC goers behave as well. And "rowdy", "noisy" are the words to describe them. Early in the morning during weekends, all the cars jam up in front of the church. Then the kids and teenagers run here and there and anyhow jay walk. The nearby kopitiams will be filled with CHC people. There was once when I was driving my car pass CHC when one of those kids from there dash across the road. I was damn angry and I horned at that kid. But no use. Immediately after that, more kids dashed across the road. It took me about 10 minutes to drive thru that 100m stretch of road that is in front of CHC. Kids and cars are juz keep pouring in and out of there. The way they used that road is as if it belongs to them.
So what I am saying this, this sort of crazy behaviour on the road shouldn't happen with a normal or decent church. As I would argue that most church goers would be law abiding people and wouldn;t mess up the neighbourhood like tat.
Once again, I would like to stress that, I'm against that particular church. Not the religion. -
Originally posted by Lingos:Yeah so totally.. i was so bored during the whole time.
Heck i was freaked out from the time i stepped into that joint.
It had some strange vibes bouncing off those titanium walls.
OMG.. i would never go back.
Didn't even have to step into the new place. The old one was enuf. to experience the horror of that church. I'm on my 1st proper visit to a church service and they try to convert me immediately after the service. Nevermind the whole cell group sitting around me in a ring like the Yakuza. Nvm the cell group leader sitting right in front of me insisting I MUST convert like some Loanshark who's insisting I MUST return him the money. It wasn't just weird vibes. They were BADDDDDDD vibes. -
I think I'm gonna say something quite common-sense.Originally posted by marcuz1977:I am thinking of joining City Harvest Church.
But before I do so, it would be great to hear some frank, but accurate comments and not some 1 liners "CHC is Sh*t" type of comments.
Wonder if any one leaves near the church and know what car Rev Kong and Ho Yao Sun drive? Why do I ask this question? I agree that churches and other places of worship can be grand and expensive looking. However, on the other hand, pastors while preaching for christains to be Christ-like, should live like Christ, with humble possessions in this materialistic world.
Thank you in advance for your comments.
Happy New Year to all and God bless the survivors of the Tsunami.
I am not a follower of God, but I've been through various cells from different churches. Each church or even cell groups have different levels of maturity and perception.
However I do realise, the older and more experienced the 'leader' is, the more 'twisted' the meanings can get if he/she interprets the bible wrongly.
By now, you should understand that having a faith is beyond just a faith in God and the sayings in the bible. So the saying goes, you practice what you preach.
1) Don't let anyone decide which church you should go to.
2) Try out a couple of churches before you decide on one.
3) Chances are, you won't want to be in a company where people are telling you what to 'think', and what to believe.
4) An unfortunate misguided individual sometimes will start with "if you don't do xxxxxx , you will go to hell." something like that.
5) Peer-pressure belongs to teeny fan-clubs, cults and mlm.
If you aren't able to discern the difference, I think you'll have much to learn in life.
Well, good luck in your path finding! -
Originally posted by HENG@:
Didn't even have to step into the new place. The old one was enuf. to experience the horror of that church. I'm on my 1st proper visit to a church service and they try to convert me immediately after the service. Nevermind the whole cell group sitting around me in a ring like the Yakuza. Nvm the cell group leader sitting right in front of me insisting I MUST convert like some Loanshark who's insisting I MUST return him the money. It wasn't just weird vibes. They were BADDDDDDD vibes. -
Mind ur word!! He is man of God. God is watching what u guys are saying. Please don’t judge people, only the Heavenly Father has the right to judge us as a potter judges his clays (Bible says, “….judge not, you shall not be judged”.) If he does against God’s will, God will never spare him, coz he misleads more than 16,000 believers into the hand of Satan. But if he leads the church and saves souls into the kingdom of God, as God wish, be aware if u r trying to stop other people going to the church, or saying something bad about God’s faithful servants. If u have time, please read stories in the Bible, really no joke!
If a person is a cult leader and uses the god names as he please, wat will happened to the followers ? They go to hell as they follow a wrong teaching or they still go to heaven ? There r a lot of funny cults going around teaching jesus here and there, but their action totally deviate from the bible. There r many funny cults in japan where they mixes buddhism and christianity together. So they should go to heaven or hell ? Shouldn't christians be aware and stop people from practising the wrong teachings ? He can always be wrong and he can have the potential of leading the 16,000 people into the hand of satan. So wat if he is not spared ? The 16,000 still dies with him...What car he drives, what house he stays, or anything he owns.. is it really important to u? Why do u hv the evil thought and let jealousy fills ur heart when u see people live better than u? (sorry, no offendÂ…). If u r so free, instead of judging or criticising people, please do care about ur own spiritual life, think about caring and help the poorÂ… Pray for the people who r suffering nowÂ….
I don't know man.. he ask people to tilth and talk about treasures in heaven etc yet he doesn't seems to tilth as much as a modal example should do. He is just not practising wat he preaches.If u so worry about misuse of money in the church, then I really dun understand the purpose and duty of churchÂ’s accountants. What I m sure that CHC uses money for GodÂ’s work, no doubt. Ask u a simple question, if the church doesn't do anything including missionary works n helping people in need, where does the money go as the believers keep give offering and tithe to the church?
Maybe the money go to the "ministers" of the church, much like ministers of singapore.Mature Christians shouldn't criticize, but encourage each other,as iron sharpen iron. Brothers and sisters should walk together in fellowship in christ. Some believers leave and criticise their previous church, mostly because of commitment, tithing, pride.....
They r a lot of cults tat believe in christ yet at the same time labelled as cult (Jehova witness). Which one is in and which one is out ? So all of them r in and should be sharpened iron ?Remember, God is good God, He will take care well of u and plant u in a right church coz He loves u.
SO the people who believes in muslim or taoists have been well taken care of by being planted in the right environment since your god is supposed to be good. Wat happened to them when they die ?Are u insulting government of Singapore that they never do their job? All activities such preaching, praying ceremonies that held in churches, temples are being observed and monitored closely by government. If CHC is doing as what MLM doing, I strongly encourage u should report to police, dun juz sit here and mislead people. I believe that our government will ban the church.
I just say they want less troubles. As long as u do not do something anti gov, u r safe.Most people judge by it appearance. Nice building and advanced facilities doesn't mean people at the very top is rich. If so, logically, president of a nation is extremely super rich??? How about a monk who lead a big temple or big organization??? All u can see CHC now is the result of commitment with willingness of every believer from the church.
Living in condo and owned a few cars is... rich...
BTW u still haven't mention anything about speaking in tongues, slaining of the spirit and miracle healingam not a follower of God, but I've been through various cells from different churches. Each church or even cell groups have different levels of maturity and perception.
My suggestions r, go and read up on their scriptures. If it make sense and it appear to be true, then believe in it. If it doesn't make sense and u don't believe tat in the past such events had taken place, don't believe in it. -
its like.... its like....... shopping for clothes!Originally posted by ronnie_2600:I think I'm gonna say something quite common-sense.
I am not a follower of God, but I've been through various cells from different churches. Each church or even cell groups have different levels of maturity and perception.
However I do realise, the older and more experienced the 'leader' is, the more 'twisted' the meanings can get if he/she interprets the bible wrongly.
By now, you should understand that having a faith is beyond just a faith in God and the sayings in the bible. So the saying goes, you practice what you preach.
1) Don't let anyone decide which church you should go to.
2) Try out a couple of churches before you decide on one.
3) Chances are, you won't want to be in a company where people are telling you what to 'think', and what to believe.
4) An unfortunate misguided individual sometimes will start with "if you don't do xxxxxx , you will go to hell." something like that.
5) Peer-pressure belongs to teeny fan-clubs, cults and mlm.
If you aren't able to discern the difference, I think you'll have much to learn in life.
Well, good luck in your path finding! wow! -
Dear all,
Many thanks for your valuable comments.
I been to one of CHC services during the weekend and here is what I observed:
1. Most of the attendees are pretty normal average people. About 80% are below 25 years old. There are a few old folks (50 and above) there. Most are in simple casual clothes (jeans, T-shirts, polo), non too conservative nor beng.
2. The not-so-normal thing is during the song singing time. With the jumping up and down, clapping of hands, flashing of lights, its like a rock concert! People got really hyped up, the environment is quite like the Anthony Robbin's Live with Passion seminar that I been to some years back.
At this point, I have a question in my mind. Is it the jumping up and down and the rock music that provide CHC goers the "Yes I am with God feeling"? The reason I linked the jumps and rock music with this feeling is because, after the LWP seminar with Tony Robbins, I am super motivated... It seemed like I can do anything.
3. There are slow songs and during the slow songs, most of the audience pray in tongue. People started praying in tongue together and stopped together as if on que. First time I experience this senario. Not sure if this is common in other church. I do not know how to speak in tongue.
4. The total time spent singing was about 45 minutes. Total service time was 2.5 hours. They like to sing some verses of the songs over and over and over again -> perhaps this contributed to the "Boring" comment by one earlier poster.
4. As for pastor Kong's preaching, I didn't feel touched by his presence. Perhaps he was tired by organising the various relief-trips to Aceh -> I cannot testify if the trips are real or fake. He spent about half an hour explaining what CHC did to help Aceh and Sri Lanka. According to him, CHC supports an orphanage in Sri Lanka, Jaffra.
5. The crux of the service should be the goal setting part where pastor Kong explains how to make plans for the year with support by certain straight-forward verses in the bible.
6. Tith was collected twice, once for the church and another for the Tsunami victims. By the way, CHC donated $50,000 to the disaster. I feel that CHC has an extremely systematic way of collecting tith. Instructions on how to pay your tith are very clear. There are multiple ways of paying it - nets, credit cards, cash, and cheque. There are even automated payment kisoks in the canteen!
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Car and house:
I think its ok for the pastors to drive cars because sometimes they might need to visit church members or run some errands for the church. However, if they are driving mercs or lexus, that will put me off. To be fair, we don't know if the Nissan and Audi are registered under the pastor names or CHC - same to the condo.
Over all an interesting eye opener. I most prob will not join the church as I am not a tongue speaker. It feels odd when I don't speak tongue when all are doing so. Jumping up and down at the songs is also not for me as I don't chiong. I also don't like the hillsongs used by CHC (personal feeling. no offense). I feel that the hillsongs are rather simple and not as meaningful as the hyms. Also I feel that the hillsongs sanged that night mostly depict a "the world is a chaotic place, you are a lost person, come to the church to feel motivated again" feeling.
Personal observations and feelings only. Comments are welcome.
Blessed night. -
it's a money grabbing cult alright.
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Originally posted by marcuz1977:I feel that CHC has an extremely systematic way of collecting tith. Instructions on how to pay your tith are very clear. There are multiple ways of paying it - nets, credit cards, cash, and cheque. There are even automated payment kisoks in the canteen! Wah, so high tech ah, McDonald's dun even except nets sia...
it's just weird to see a church collecting tith in this manner... seems so gian lwee -
okay guys i thin our objective been repeated lots of times...Marcuz1977 has been to the church and see for himself, i think we should ceasefire..else this thread will go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and onOriginally posted by Zooish: Wah, so high tech ah, McDonald's dun even except nets sia...
it's just weird to see a church collecting tith in this manner... seems so gian lwee
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ok. CHC = cheat money. period.
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oh..... join them for their service lar... v fun one!
you mean u dunno?! they hold underground services one mah? haha!! -
I chiong but im not impressed by the rock concert jumping up n down thingy leh? Why u say until like thats only for ppl who chiong...Originally posted by marcuz1977:Jumping up and down at the songs is also not for me as I don't chiong. -
Last I checked - smoking is not a sin, clubbing is also not a sin . Drinking is not a sin although when intoxicated you may commit a sin in the process.Originally posted by digicharat:how devout is she? or she is just one of those which is all talks only?
i have too many friends who is like that. open mouth close mouth god here god there, but they still smoke, club, getting drunk, lying...
but then, i do know of some who are previous ah bengs but after become christian, they totally changed. their changes are so hard to believe you thought they are different person... they stop smoking, clubbing, drinking lying and they become very helpful, respect other ppl, spent their free time doing bible study and prayers with their cell group.
when i asked them about why some christian are so devout but others are just for shows, they say that the cell group that you are in plays a major role. and alot of youngster now join christian just to follow trend or follow their friends. -
My sister is in those churches /cell group worship thingies . I don't trust them when my sister tells my parents and I to convert from our catholic faith because "catholicism is satanic" . She takes money from her work and donate it all to her church - but still asks money from my dad. She failed her subjects because they had bloody prayer sessions in the middle of the exam period. She kneels down and pray each time something does not go right ( i.e. prayed for the fridge to work)
So if you ask me - I don't like cult like churches / cell groups etc that do some form of brainwashing . My sis 's behaviour has changed dramatically and there is nothing we can do about it because the "church" is legal.
So beware of such church/ cell groups -
Why did this Pastor Kang choose to set up a new church?
Can't he serve God as a pastor in an established church like Wesley Methodist or Singapore Presbyterian Church? Is it necessary to set up a brand new organisation?
I am not judging him or the church. But economically speaking, it's a waste of resources (eg raise money to build a brand new church building & get many other resources to build a new community). -
hahahahaa......Originally posted by fymk:She kneels down and pray each time something does not go right ( i.e. prayed for the fridge to work)
ur sis is cool
but u better keep an eye on her more closely b4 she start believing tt if she commit suicide at 11.59pm at bishan park, aliens will take her to God
i know i exaggerating lah....but u know.....something along tt line.......
get her to be involved in more outdoor activities, NOT with church frens......
help her to xuan ya le ma b4 it goes out of hand....... -
Originally posted by Honeybunz:Why did this Pastor Kang choose to set up a new church?
Can't he serve God as a pastor in an established church like Wesley Methodist or Singapore Presbyterian Church? Is it necessary to set up a brand new organisation?
I am not judging him or the church. But economically speaking, it's a waste of resources (eg raise money to build a brand new church building & get many other resources to build a new community). ego????
if you dig into the likes of such "pastors" you'd find that most of them has megalomaniac tendency.... with a need to have large houses, big fancy cars and a wealthy impressive exterior facade.
it is always the same old story....
1. old church, old leadership not spiritual enough, or
2. had a call from God to start a new church, or
3. the need to be numero-uno in that organisation... or all of the above....
you'd not see such a leader in mainstream church ie "spiritual strongman"....
at the end of the day its the fruit (not the numbers) the counts.... a girl who gives all her money to the church and takes money from parents to survive? parents of young children who do not care if they are a nuisance in the neighbourhood the church is in? hmmmm.... -
The old stories are rubbish lah.Originally posted by Chin Eng: ego????
if you dig into the likes of such "pastors" you'd find that most of them has megalomaniac tendency.... with a need to have large houses, big fancy cars and a wealthy impressive exterior facade.
it is always the same old story....
1. old church, old leadership not spiritual enough, or
2. had a call from God to start a new church, or
3. the need to be numero-uno in that organisation... or all of the above....
you'd not see such a leader in mainstream church ie "spiritual strongman"....
at the end of the day its the fruit (not the numbers) the counts.... a girl who gives all her money to the church and takes money from parents to survive? parents of young children who do not care if they are a nuisance in the neighbourhood the church is in? hmmmm....
1. Old church, not spiritual? All the more people should serve in those churches to make it more spiritual.
2. God's call for a new church? Don't think so, if there is nothing wrong with the main stream. The churches are doing alright.
3. A good leader can also be no. 1 in serving a main stream church. A no. 1 choir leader. A no. 1 cell group leader etc.
Somehow I wonder why National Church Council is not doing anything about it. -
a girl who gives all her money to the church and takes money from parents to survive?
The parents r the real donors to the church. She is actually using the generousity of other people for herself. Ask them to stop giving her a cent so she can really be the one who donates the money. -
Lik wat fmyk said... i feel some christian activities
r really cult lik.... brainwash people only... well
those who r willing to b brainwashed....or acted lik
they r more 'western' n high class...
I feel spore society r really littered w too many
such western culture worshippers....
Heres a true life joke my mum once told me..:
her fren's daughter who was a convert was praying
during dinner n thank god for givng her food n shelter...
n her mum retorted: 'its ur MUM me who gave u food and shelter'!!!
haaa -
When were all these considered sins to begin wif???Originally posted by fymk:Last I checked - smoking is not a sin, clubbing is also not a sin . Drinking is not a sin although when intoxicated you may commit a sin in the process. -
There is nothing stated about smoking in the Bible,drinking is allowed,even one christian ritual,holy communion involves wine.
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well dude...firstly to begin with...christianity did NOT originate from the west..it originated from the middle east. anyways..its not christians who act high class..its the fake ones who do..christianity does not teach people to act all snobby and all...its people themselves who have this mentality.Originally posted by NuLife:Lik wat fmyk said... i feel some christian activities
r really cult lik.... brainwash people only... well
those who r willing to b brainwashed....or acted lik
they r more 'western' n high class...
I feel spore society r really littered w too many
such western culture worshippers....
Heres a true life joke my mum once told me..:
her fren's daughter who was a convert was praying
during dinner n thank god for givng her food n shelter...
n her mum retorted: 'its ur MUM me who gave u food and shelter'!!!
haaa