LKY is not only in self-denial, but also not humble.
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Sorry to disappoint you. Apparently it's not LKY...Originally posted by caramon:LKY and his fellow ministar is overpaid, "the good life have spoilt you and distorted your vision" You are really out of touch.. S'pore is the only country which pays millions to their leaders.. Name me a political leader outside of Singapore who even makes half of what LKY gets..
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=46316
You think PAP owns Guiness World Records Ltd.....?? and they massaged the figures...??? -
Getting lots of money as salary is a fact. Legalise corruption is an opinion. Two different things, but you are entitled to your opinion.
I feel sad for you.. you are in self-denial..Well seems that lots of people have already voiced their opinion even though things did not get their way.... it is still not a wayang. Did you ever think that things will forever go in your way just because you said it? Did any senior members of your families said no to you? Was it a wayang too?
The stage was set, the play was on, but do you think the audience can choose the scene? comeon, its just a wayang show.. it makes it look good, makes you feel good.. but end of the day, they don't really care about your opinion.. *wake up*The purpose of not granting the right for demonstration is so that it will not serve as a precedence for demonstration to take place. So you think that by tearing down buildings and overturning cars is a good solution?
Are you saying other countries likes demonstration? given a choice, nobody likes a demonstration.. but its necessary if the need arises so as to bring out the attention for them to see.. but even that remains hard in singapore.. we are deny the voice as a singaporean, we are not given our rights..
You people can say whatever you want, but the PAP will do whatever they want!!No lah... I can always go across the causeway and make these "illegal" purchases.... some of these books are written by obviously anti-LKY people. Of course I agree that the banning is a little paranoia, but I don't think we are so sheltered, after all, hasn't the government been encouraging us to go overseas. I do that, go overseas, I mean, regularly..... and I can tell you first hand that some of these comments and "opinions" are really ridiculous.
You refused to answer my question.. instead, twisting and turning just like what PAP are used to.. NOW.. why are those books being BANNED in singapore if some of the contents are indeed ridiculous??
Eh?? why are you still out here so free. Not in IMH??? Last I heard, impeaching a US president is also quite difficult.... When's the last time someone wants to hold the Singapore government accountable and got identified, arrested made bankrupt etc. Those that got these treatment made statements that they CANNOT prove or found to be FALSE.
Tang liang hong and Dr Chee challenged the PAP to have an open debate over some issue on television but was rejected..
They(PAP) have lost their courage to boast that they are prepared to argue with their opponents publicly on any issue.. WHY the sudden changed of tune? -
Last year US President ClintonÂ’s salary, as someone has pointed out was US$200,000 per year and there is no report of any bonus or other payment to the President by the tax-payers.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Sorry to disappoint you. Apparently it's not LKY...
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=46316
You think PAP owns Guiness World Records Ltd.....?? and they massaged the figures...???
In contrast the Singapore Prime MinisterÂ’s salary, as given in the Straits Times report on the Parliament proceedings in July 2000, is S$1,994,000 per year.
In addition, the SÂ’poreÂ’s Ministers awarded themselves 3.25 months bonus last year, not including the 13th month, this part IÂ’m not too clear.
SÂ’poreÂ’s PM for yr 2000 salary was $1.994 x 3.25 = S$2.534 million = US$1.4699 million.
(Even if we exclude the 13th month) -
I think Lee Kuan Yew should declare his and his familyÂ’s assets for Singaporeans to see so that we can have a better idea of what has been going on over the last 40 years..
It is however public knowledge that his wife and brotherÂ’s law firm benefited to the tune of probably more than a hundred million from the HDB conveyancing business, being its monopoly provider..
SingaporeÂ’s latest conveyancing fees are up to 10 times higher than that in the UK which has liberalized this business more than 30 years ago.. One can imagine the huge profit margin the bigger law firms, including that of Lee & Lee, which is owned by Lee Kuan YewÂ’s wife and brother and also the wife of Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong, for what is essentially straight forward standard clerical process..
It should be noted that in the UK and Australia, the conveyancing of housing NEED NOT by handled by lawyers.. -
"You go down New York, Broadway, You will see the beggars, people of the streets...Where are the beggars in Singapore? Show me. I take pride in that."... Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew
Beggars in singapore are not ALLOWED, they are ILLEGAL.. relax that rules and regulations, and you will have a lot of beggars in singapore.. so who is the one living in denial?
Times are getting harder and harder in singapore, but NO.. many still put on blinkers of cosmetics to show.. With only the minority rich that flashes their high lifestyles, it is often depicted as the lifestyle of general singaporean as a whole..
The once bankrupt and restructured KENAIR travel has again gone into closure, a well known travel agency that existed for 35 years ....
Go around any kopi-tiam, you will see many old folks selling packets of tissue and collecting empty soft-drink cans as their main souce of income..
In HDB estates, the situation is even more terrible. So many shops have closed down. Sole proprietor are dividing their small HDB shop into four microscopic parts and letting them out for a measy few hundred dollars, just to substain their rent..
Savings in the bank doesn't yield as much interest as in the past.. The advice from our parents that keeping money in the bank for our future doesn't apply to our kids.. its not a people's bank as proclaim any more, with 2 dollars deduction for accounts less than 500, and some bank 1000..
Go to Jalan Besar, China town and you will see the Living wretched old man lives by scrapping and sleeving off old electrical wires of appliances to sell the copper as scrap,cutting out old carton boxes to sell etc...
They struggle just to earn enough money for a days meal. It is a day to day survivor for many peasants out there.. everything seems to be going down-hill.. It doesn't help with our very own propaganda state controlled sh*t times, where information is often doctored, and people are mis-inform of whats the real situation..
We can see many tents being put up at east coast, where those poor peasants call it their home.. something that does not happen in the past..Look around your neighbourhood blocks at night. See how many flats remain dark.. With many unemployed, bankruptcy is at a record high..
<<< While Khoo was jobless for 10 months, the family's electricity supply was cut, telephone line disconnected and they had little food. They sometimes ate in the dark and the children studied near the window, making use of light from the corridor.
For now, the family - they have four children, aged three to 17 - is getting by on hand-outs from relatives, close friends and neighbours. But Madam Ziah does not want to live off others forever.
She will move the family in with her in-laws and rent out their three-room flat in Bukit Panjang, to earn some money. The eldest son is also pitching in by working part-time at McDonald's while studying in ITE, but might have to give up school.
Despite the situation, Madam Ziah defended Khoo as a 'good man' who never lost his temper, despite his mounting frustration. 'But I would rather he scolded or slapped me than go rob a bank.' >>> -
I tell you where they are...in Pelangi Home.
They are detained without trial under the Destitute Persons Act for ever and ever, amen. The only way they get out of the place is in a body bag and then get dissected by pathologists before they are cremated. By the way, 'any person residing in a welfare home may be required to engage in any suitable work', under the law. -
Who are the 'they' that you are talking about? Mind to shed some light to it? Thanks..Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I tell you where they are...in Pelangi Home.
They are detained without trial under the Destitute Persons Act for ever and ever, amen. The only way they get out of the place is in a body bag and then get dissected by pathologists before they are cremated. By the way, 'any person residing in a welfare home may be required to engage in any suitable work', under the law. -
the record shows september 1960. not now right?Originally posted by Chin Eng:Sorry to disappoint you. Apparently it's not LKY...
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=46316
You think PAP owns Guiness World Records Ltd.....?? and they massaged the figures...??? -
Japan has come a long way to democracy.. I wonder when's singapore turn..Originally posted by dragg:the record shows september 1960. not now right? -
1. Don't complain so much about getting little interest in the banks. From what I understand from my friends in the USA, they don't even get interest for putting money in the bank (savings account)!
2. Demostrations & Strikes are extremely distruptive to work and it is not always that it is because it has to be done but for reasons like a bigger bonus etc. For example, the postal service or the port/rail/trucking workers in Canada LOVE (they do it every year) to go on strike near Christmas so that they will get a bigger bonus and they know LOTS of companies will give their company tremendous pressure because of the cargo they need to move out. Do you want something like that to happen in Singapore? I don't.
Also in Australia, the lecturers go on strike and we paying students don't get our fees refunded for that day of lessons missed nor is there any make-up lessons. I don't call that fair either.
Anyway, as in any government, you can't please everyone. There will be those who are happy with the government, and there will be those who aren't. Don't forget the government are human too and they make mistakes. People start to complain when things go wrong, but do they in turn praise and appreciate the government when things are right?
People are never satisfied. As the leaders of the country, they will have to think and plan ahead. It may not be beneficial short-term but can you say the same in the long run? Don't forget that men like LKY are visionaries. They see much further than an average person. You might not think as far as they can and not see the full picture. -
i have never seen you write so seriously before this.Originally posted by caramon:"You go down New York, Broadway, You will see the beggars, people of the streets...Where are the beggars in Singapore? Show me. I take pride in that."... Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew
Beggars in singapore are not ALLOWED, they are ILLEGAL.. relax that rules and regulations, and you will have a lot of beggars in singapore.. so who is the one living in denial?
Times are getting harder and harder in singapore, but NO.. many still put on blinkers of cosmetics to show.. With only the minority rich that flashes their high lifestyles, it is often depicted as the lifestyle of general singaporean as a whole..
The once bankrupt and restructured KENAIR travel has again gone into closure, a well known travel agency that existed for 35 years ....
Go around any kopi-tiam, you will see many old folks selling packets of tissue and collecting empty soft-drink cans as their main souce of income..
In HDB estates, the situation is even more terrible. So many shops have closed down. Sole proprietor are dividing their small HDB shop into four microscopic parts and letting them out for a measy few hundred dollars, just to substain their rent..
Savings in the bank doesn't yield as much interest as in the past.. The advice from our parents that keeping money in the bank for our future doesn't apply to our kids.. its not a people's bank as proclaim any more, with 2 dollars deduction for accounts less than 500, and some bank 1000..
Go to Jalan Besar, China town and you will see the Living wretched old man lives by scrapping and sleeving off old electrical wires of appliances to sell the copper as scrap,cutting out old carton boxes to sell etc...
They struggle just to earn enough money for a days meal. It is a day to day survivor for many peasants out there.. everything seems to be going down-hill.. It doesn't help with our very own propaganda state controlled sh*t times, where information is often doctored, and people are mis-inform of whats the real situation..
We can see many tents being put up at east coast, where those poor peasants call it their home.. something that does not happen in the past..Look around your neighbourhood blocks at night. See how many flats remain dark.. With many unemployed, bankruptcy is at a record high..
<<< While Khoo was jobless for 10 months, the family's electricity supply was cut, telephone line disconnected and they had little food. They sometimes ate in the dark and the children studied near the window, making use of light from the corridor.
For now, the family - they have four children, aged three to 17 - is getting by on hand-outs from relatives, close friends and neighbours. But Madam Ziah does not want to live off others forever.
She will move the family in with her in-laws and rent out their three-room flat in Bukit Panjang, to earn some money. The eldest son is also pitching in by working part-time at McDonald's while studying in ITE, but might have to give up school.
Despite the situation, Madam Ziah defended Khoo as a 'good man' who never lost his temper, despite his mounting frustration. 'But I would rather he scolded or slapped me than go rob a bank.' >>>
i fully agree with your observation!!! -
My dear, all JBJ asks for is just a simple demonstration.. Its for the good of the people.. its for a good cause, not for greed as what you portray in your posts.. why deny the permit for a good cause? thats my question..Originally posted by elindra:1. Don't complain so much about getting little interest in the banks. From what I understand from my friends in the USA, they don't even get interest for putting money in the bank (savings account)!
2. Demostrations & Strikes are extremely distruptive to work and it is not always that it is because it has to be done but for reasons like a bigger bonus etc. For example, the postal service or the port/rail/trucking workers in Canada LOVE (they do it every year) to go on strike near Christmas so that they will get a bigger bonus and they know LOTS of companies will give their company tremendous pressure because of the cargo they need to move out. Do you want something like that to happen in Singapore? I don't.
Also in Australia, the lecturers go on strike and we paying students don't get our fees refunded for that day of lessons missed nor is there any make-up lessons. I don't call that fair either.
Anyway, as in any government, you can't please everyone. There will be those who are happy with the government, and there will be those who aren't. Don't forget the government are human too and they make mistakes. People start to complain when things go wrong, but do they in turn praise and appreciate the government when things are right?
People are never satisfied. As the leaders of the country, they will have to think and plan ahead. It may not be beneficial short-term but can you say the same in the long run? Don't forget that men like LKY are visionaries. They see much further than an average person. You might not think as far as they can and not see the full picture.
Is singapore run as a country or a company? I am sure many educated singaporeans are not blind.. vision are deem good if all bodes well for the people.. however, it doesn't justify their million dollar salary in this present situation -- when all is not well in singapore.. -
Jiak bak buay...?
Time for dinner soon...
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A simple demonstration is still disruptive to work. Say a few ppl apply for leave for the demonstration from a company, how much productive hours lost is that. As well, the government is likely to have the police there for crowd control which comes from who? Us the tax-payers.Originally posted by caramon:My dear, all JBJ asks for is just a simple demonstration.. Its for the good of the people.. its for a good cause, not for greed as what you portray in your posts.. why deny the permit for a good cause? thats my question..
Is singapore run as a country or a company? I am sure many educated singaporeans are not blind.. vision are deem good if all bodes well for the people.. however, it doesn't justify their million dollar salary in this present situation -- when all is not well in singapore..
Good for the people? I guess that is very subjective on how this is debated. If you talk about people who are potential gamblers, I agree, that is for the good of them, but for an Intergrated resort for the economy, then the demonstration is a total waste of time. Yes, I am pro-casino.
Maybe you can suggest how do we improve the economy so that the rich & poor gap will not widen. Singapore is really running out of ideas I have to say. Dubai is fighting with us for the lucrative aviation industry and is attracting alot of investors. Malaysia is also restructuring to be more competitive, Thailand..... let's see how many things in Singapore are imported from Thailand and they are competiting with us to be a regional medical hub.
The thing about visions is that you don't get instant results. I agree that although the pay is increasing in certain sectors, it is not increasing fast enough for the whole country to fill the effect. Well, it may be more diplomatic if they took a pay cut of course, that is a point I do agree with you.
It is getting more and more competitive here in Singapore. Very soon we may have to work overseas like what the Germans are doing now with their economy in the pits currently.
And stop calling me dear. -
Ay, no need to talk so much. Just read this report:
http://www.asiademocracy.org/UserFiles/File/Activity/ESM%20report%20for%20website.pdf
BTW, in a democracy, you should be allowed to demonstrate peacefully.
Singapore is not a democracy, no matter how you look at it. It is the laughing stock of the developed world. According to the report, even Castro's Cuba had more political freedom. Laughing stock not because you live in a totalitarian system, but because even educated people like you cannot/will not/dare not rise up to the challenge of ousting them. -
But we have families to feed....
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Noob,i think u are the 1 who should shut up!!!Originally posted by social87:shut up la caramon.u're fcuking irritating ya noe. -
LKY's question as to where are the beggars in SingaporeOriginally posted by caramon:Who are the 'they' that you are talking about? Mind to shed some light to it? Thanks.. -
Yeah, but my point is merely to state that there are other people getting more money than LKY, whether it is 1960 or now is not the issue. Still the link is in Guiness... and should still be the record holder.Originally posted by dragg:the record shows september 1960. not now right?
To caramon.... my point is - NO GOVERNMENT is perfect. You can have all your gripes about Singapore, at the end of the day, it is what you take home that feeds the family. All the rhetorics about our neighbouring countries having demonstration and challenges only goes to show that such acts do not achieve anything... Even in the famous EDSA revolution in Manila, they never really recovered from their economy. My own colleagues in Manila just a couple of weeks back, the only person capable of running Philippines is still Marcos. This observation came from educated people working in an MNC.
I really have no wish to continue in this fruitless debate. I also want to state that I am not delusional just because I speak well of LKY. I give credit where credit is due. There are things that I do no agree on and there things that are unpopular that needed done. I don't have to be happy with them. Yes there are points that you'd raised that I did not fully answer. Likewise, so have you, especially on your beloved democracy in the US.
To conclude, allow me to quote from today's (May 7 page H5) Straits Times. In the eulogy read by Mr Bill Wee on his father, our beloved late president: "He believed that we must accord respect to those who walked before us. Where the future is concerned, even though my father saw many things wrong in the world, he would inspire us with his ability to see the silver lining in every cloud."
Give the appropriate respect and credit to those who had done a long time ago. Stop the bickering. If you cannot make a difference in the REAL world, don't come whining here in a faceless forum. Unlike what you have claimed, there are people willing to speak up, in an amicable manner, make a difference and NOT ARRESTED. -
whatever it is.. the doings of the government is for the good of the people and their posteriors.. so.. why dont you concentrate on setting up your food industry.. or social escort agency.. and leave the politics to the professionals?
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if you say it is LKY who built up singapore, then u dun know the history of singapore. Because in the past, there were many good ministers who helped to build up singapore.
One diff betw LKY n those past ministers, is that LKY uses politic for his family members to gain top positions in many ministries/GLC.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
I cannot agree more with you Chin Eng. Anyway, anyone who does not agree with Caramon is self-delusional.
Yeah, but my point is merely to state that there are other people getting more money than LKY, whether it is 1960 or now is not the issue. Still the link is in Guiness... and should still be the record holder.
To caramon.... my point is - NO GOVERNMENT is perfect. You can have all your gripes about Singapore, at the end of the day, it is what you take home that feeds the family. All the rhetorics about our neighbouring countries having demonstration and challenges only goes to show that such acts do not achieve anything... Even in the famous EDSA revolution in Manila, they never really recovered from their economy. My own colleagues in Manila just a couple of weeks back, the only person capable of running Philippines is still Marcos. This observation came from educated people working in an MNC.
I really have no wish to continue in this fruitless debate. I also want to state that I am not delusional just because I speak well of LKY. I give credit where credit is due. There are things that I do no agree on and there things that are unpopular that needed done. I don't have to be happy with them. Yes there are points that you'd raised that I did not fully answer. Likewise, so have you, especially on your beloved democracy in the US.
To conclude, allow me to quote from today's (May 7 page H5) Straits Times. In the eulogy read by Mr Bill Wee on his father, our beloved late president: "He believed that we must accord respect to those who walked before us. Where the future is concerned, even though my father saw many things wrong in the world, he would inspire us with his ability to see the silver lining in every cloud."
Give the appropriate respect and credit to those who had done a long time ago. Stop the bickering. [b]If you cannot make a difference in the REAL world, don't come whining here in a faceless forum. Unlike what you have claimed, there are people willing to speak up, in an amicable manner, make a difference and NOT ARRESTED.[/b] -
i am a bit confused. is there a typo error somewhere in your statement?Originally posted by elindra:I cannot agree more with you Chin Eng. Anyway, anyone who does not agree with Caramon is self-delusional. 
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Sorry I used an oxymoron in the sentance which can be confusing.Originally posted by elindra:I cannot agree more with you Chin Eng. Anyway, anyone who does not agree with Caramon is self-delusional.
What I meant was that I agree with Chin Eng on his statement and there is really nothing more I can add to it.
Amendment:
I agree with you Chin Eng.
Anyway, anyone who does not agree with Caramon is self-delusional.
Result of talking on the phone with customers and typing at the same time at work
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i understand your statement 'i cannot agree more with chin eng'. but i am confused with your last comment.Originally posted by elindra:Sorry I used an oxymoron in the sentance which can be confusing.
What I meant was that I agree with Chin Eng on his statement and there is really nothing more I can add to it.
Amendment:
I agree with you Chin Eng.
Anyway, anyone who does not agree with Caramon is self-delusional.
Result of talking on the phone with customers and typing at the same time at work
all in all you agree with caramon too right?