Shame on those who think NS is a waste of time
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I'm not paid and I'm not associated with PAP. It's just saddening to see people complaining about NS taking their precious time. I lost my 2.5 years, but the importance of NS outweigh my personal interests. I hope this thread will change some NSF's opinion, so that when they return to camp/duty they will feel less sianz. I know it's shitty, but if we(boys) don't do it, who would? Women? Buy nuclear like someone suggested?Originally posted by depressed:oh btw how much did PAP pay you to say this
? i also wanna join!
I just want to cheer for the NSFs, like I said earlier, I just ORD. My juniors are still in camp, I always tell them serving NS is for a good cause. They kinda feel better. =) -
hey PMLEE mistake liao...I edited my post! •s—vŠQ‰ä
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You claim that NS brings security and economic stability? Perhaps so, but surely it's not the sole contributing factor? I see HongKong developing quite nicely without the need for a citizen army. Japan, in post WW2 days, shaped up very nicely as well.Originally posted by JackOT:It's the most conveninent way for me to express my thoughts, I won't get published on ST. LOL It's the same argument, we shouldn't be too self-centred. You find it waste of time because it takes away your prime and you lag behind your peers. In a whole picture, NS brought security and economic stability, hence MNCs are still coming into Singapore. Thus generating more jobs, economic still having healthy growth. In whole, Singaporeans benefit indirectly. To serve NS is a noble thing, we are protecting the land our forefathers left and securing the future for generations to come.
Okay, I think we have an obvious outcome.
People who find NS a waste of time kinda think about only themselves, don't you reckon? Okay, I can't change ppl's opinion. Let's just enjoy freedom of speech for now.
The only example i can think of short of 2 sticks would be Taiwan. But they (taiwanese KMT) actually has a military tradition against the CPC, which is not the groundwork for Singapore.
Also, it's not about being self-centred, but about why things are done in a certain manner which may be construed as a waste of time. Switzerland for example, trains a guerilla reserve army which does not require them to serve 2/1/2 years in one stretch.
Once again, if you wish to make make sweeping statements, such as people being self centred, or to have 'in a whole picture' scenarios, do take a little time to think about what you're saying and express a little depth and clarity in your opinions. Saying that NS makes our economy strong is somewhat akin to my little nephew saying that his power rangers can protect the house against bad guys.
Not trying to get personal here but... seriously... -
seriously, some people dont get itOriginally posted by k4korny:I served NS liao leh. But I dun think its a waste of time..
It's a well-known fact that guys who come out of 2-yrs of NS are more matured and forward thinking. If 2 years can help ppl grow up so much, then it's not a waste of time rite?
is it abt tough training or lack of freedom? i dont think thats the issue really
the problems come when we are expected to come forward to defend our nation, and instead we have to deal with the inefficiency, ie, the bureaucracy and politics and other idiotic things that happened within SAF
sure it make us all a better man, but one cannot help but to ponder, in a military establishment, where the focus shld be on getting things done right and fast, we are mired in bureaucratic rules and superiors abusing powers, or for the matter, having lack of brains -
oops....First of all i wish to write this post that i am sorry that I mentioned the word PAP..it was a typo mistake! honest! i have since edited my post! please do not blacklist me or send me to ISD
Finally I also wish to say that the PAP is a very good political organisation and i would vote for them in the coming elections!
and err... doh....i think i better stop posting on such sensitive topics in future...better be careful than sorry....and i don't think i could change the minds of some ppl. Oh well
Once again a big sorry! I have edited my post! -
Eh ,
Did you notice my post ? ORD is a positive time for you to look back and thanks NS.
Actually NS have just started for reservist . It is not the NS period that is grueling. It is having to keep up with your peers who didnt have to go thru NS. In this Fair world , your employer will only take your having to go reservist his loss and have to find somebody to replace you.
So enjoy NS while you are now serving NSmen time to time. You see how this society is unforgiving to people who have NS and its problems becomes yours. -
hogwashOriginally posted by JackOT:It's the most conveninent way for me to express my thoughts, I won't get published on ST. LOL It's the same argument, we shouldn't be too self-centred. You find it waste of time because it takes away your prime and you lag behind your peers. In a whole picture, NS brought security and economic stability, hence MNCs are still coming into Singapore. Thus generating more jobs, economic still having healthy growth. In whole, Singaporeans benefit indirectly. To serve NS is a noble thing, we are protecting the land our forefathers left and securing the future for generations to come.
Okay, I think we have an obvious outcome.
People who find NS a waste of time kinda think about only themselves, don't you reckon? Okay, I can't change ppl's opinion. Let's just enjoy freedom of speech for now.
for two years, me and my fellow nsfs tried to work smart, and to fight bureaucracy so that everyone get their job done fast and easy, yes, its also for ourselves, but what does it translate to? a better operating system so that we are able to train well to, perform well in exercises and combat if needed
there are a lot of wastage of time, especially in my case, fighting dumbfark officers or superiors, mostly regulars who think nuthing but of their rice bowl
so because we pursue excellence and also thinking fighting bureaucracy is a waste of time, it translate to selfishness? is there lack of camaderie or selflessness in people who think ns is a waste of time
think smart, your role in ns is to defend the nation, not being foolish heroes
with one swipe of the brush, you generalise the entire group of people who do think deep abt their roles in ns and how it can be improved
you just simply obey orders and doing dumbfark things?
thats not how things should be run -
i admit i one of the lucky few whom get to experience such situations and believe becos of these situations. my EQ will be better when i go out to work next time rather than following those low-EQ regulars day dreaming how wonderful they were once..Originally posted by hisoka:i gues the key word is total so you feel its a waste of time too, you may have gained something out of it but you feel its still far from balancing out the time wasted
and i say again, not all regulars are like this. i met friendly senior commanders whom treat junior officers, junior specalists and man with respect too.
lastly, army gave me a bunch of buddies.. thou i donno will they be my buddies for life after we ORDed -
The way you replied makes me look silly and even childish(Comparing to your nephew). I guess that's the benefits of good english. Before any personal attack(Since you already say nothing personal), I am silly and naive.Originally posted by nomood:You claim that NS brings security and economic stability? Perhaps so, but surely it's not the sole contributing factor? I see HongKong developing quite nicely without the need for a citizen army. Japan, in post WW2 days, shaped up very nicely as well.
The only example i can think of short of 2 sticks would be Taiwan. But they (taiwanese KMT) actually has a military tradition against the CPC, which is not the groundwork for Singapore.
Also, it's not about being self-centred, but about why things are done in a certain manner which may be construed as a waste of time. Switzerland for example, trains a guerilla reserve army which does not require them to serve 2/1/2 years in one stretch.
Once again, if you wish to make make sweeping statements, such as people being self centred, or to have 'in a whole picture' scenarios, do take a little time to think about what you're saying and express a little depth and clarity in your opinions. Saying that NS makes our economy strong is somewhat akin to my little nephew saying that his power rangers can protect the house against bad guys.
Not trying to get personal here but... seriously...
"HongKong developing quite nicely without the need for a citizen army. Japan, in post WW2 days, shaped up very nicely as well. & Switzerland for example, trains a guerilla reserve army which does not require them to serve 2/1/2 years in one stretch." <-- If you think your suggestions are good and proved NS is waste of time, I wonder why so many MPs never thought of it? Maybe you can put your knowledge into good use, suggest it so it's beneficial to our country. I think our nation can save more money from NS and earning more income tax. I hope these simple english can explain. -
Sorry double post
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did you even find out why? does simply having thoughts its a waste of time immediately call for value judgement?Originally posted by JackOT:I'm not paid and I'm not associated with PAP. It's just saddening to see people complaining about NS taking their precious time. I lost my 2.5 years, but the importance of NS outweigh my personal interests. I hope this thread will change some NSF's opinion, so that when they return to camp/duty they will feel less sianz. I know it's shitty, but if we(boys) don't do it, who would? Women? Buy nuclear like someone suggested?
I just want to cheer for the NSFs, like I said earlier, I just ORD. My juniors are still in camp, I always tell them serving NS is for a good cause. They kinda feel better. =) -
Simple. I never denied the fact that we need a citizen army, it's just that you absolutely *cannot* fault others for thinking that NS is a waste of time. For the multitude of reasons which others have pointed out; andOriginally posted by JackOT:The way you replied makes me look silly and even childish(Comparing to your nephew). I guess that's the benefits of good english. Before any personal attack(Since you already say nothing personal), I am silly and naive.
"HongKong developing quite nicely without the need for a citizen army. Japan, in post WW2 days, shaped up very nicely as well. & Switzerland for example, trains a guerilla reserve army which does not require them to serve 2/1/2 years in one stretch." <-- If you think your suggestions are good and proved NS is waste of time, I wonder why so many MPs never thought of it? Maybe you can put your knowledge into good use, suggest it so it's beneficial to our country. I think our nation can save more money from NS and earning more income tax. I hope these simple english can explain.
I take offense on the manner of which the topic is phrased. And I quote;
'shame on those who think NS is a waste of time'
I dont' see anything shameful about it.
Just so that we are clear, i just find that your expressions are childish, not so much of your said self. There's nothing wrong with feeling strongly for something which you believe in. And at the risk of sounding somewhat pompous, since you've already faulted your command of english as the main culprit, i am really just doing the same. -
sometimes i wonder if girls who posts some stuff abt ns here which highlight a high degree of ignorance shld be forced to serve ns...and when i mean ns its the kind of ns guys undergo....not those s****y 2 weeks bmt....tho i am sure many girls are gonna suffer once they find out...i don't deny that NS has some good in it, but the bad parts of it outweigh the good...and there are too many things to explain if i go into details
well i think JackOT has his own points abt ns. But i don't think he has taken into account other ppl certain view of things seriously. Guess different upbringing and different survival environment does play a part
I think i shld start making a post abt periods! like erm....menstrual cramps are no big deal...it's just like a needle pricking the skin!
my parents used to tell me that being a child has a much easier life compared to when you reach the age of adult....i never understand why till now
oh well.....i guess maybe you need to experience things on the other side of the coin before you realise some things -
The shame should go to the people who finds your contribution a joke and thinks that you are not competent for your age.Originally posted by OH-FF:You see how this society is unforgiving to people who have NS and its problems becomes yours.
Ever had an interviewer from the top HR(female) personnel question me " Why do you love your country so much?" After i frankly told her i had to go for reservist the next month. I did not get hired luckily (bytch of a HR).
Do you think NS is beneficial to me at that point? Or is it wasting more of my time? -
is this a +1 thread?
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what's a +1 thread?Originally posted by disappear:is this a +1 thread?
sorry newbie here... -
Agree on thisOriginally posted by nomood:Simple. I never denied the fact that we need a citizen army, it's just that you absolutely *cannot* fault others for thinking that NS is a waste of time. For the multitude of reasons which others have pointed out; and
I take offense on the manner of which the topic is phrased. And I quote;
'shame on those who think NS is a waste of time'
I dont' see anything shameful about it.
Just so that we are clear, i just find that your expressions are childish, not so much of your said self. There's nothing wrong with feeling strongly for something which you believe in. And at the risk of sounding somewhat pompous, since you've already faulted your command of english as the main culprit, i am really just doing the same.
The generalisation of the topic matter irks me
No one call for total abolishment of NS, and no one so far question saying NS is useless to the defence of the nation
As far as i can see, no one bemoan the tough training.
What really is annoying, is refusal of topic starter to see different perspectives of NS
Is NS such a glamourous, noble, goody, will lead to maturity wishy washy stuff? There are so much dirt in NS, and if we all go compile our own experience into books, there might be not enough paper pulp to last.
Thats where the wastage of time comes. NS is simple, do the job fast and smart, which translates into better combat effectiveness. The way the topic starter goes, its like simple patriotic hooha without the brains to ponder. -
So what's wrong with my own opinion? I'm sick of people who go around and whine about NS. Shame on them. ZzzOriginally posted by nomood:I take offense on the manner of which the topic is phrased. And I quote;
'shame on those who think NS is a waste of time'
I dont' see anything shameful about it.
Just so that we are clear, i just find that your expressions are childish, not so much of your said self. There's nothing wrong with feeling strongly for something which you believe in. And at the risk of sounding somewhat pompous, since you've already faulted your command of english as the main culprit, i am really just doing the same. -
dbl post
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Haha..
so funny.....
sorry this is a joke... I don't agree for most people like me... what a waste of my NS timeOriginally posted by Honeybunz:While many guys complain about NS, do you guys have any idea gals do look up to guys who serve NS? Between a guy who has completed NS vs a guy who has not (probably waiting for enlistment), there is a very clear distinction between them in terms of the way they work and look at things.
When I was a student, I have male classmates : some have completed NS before they continued their studies, some have not and will serve NS only after they graduate. Somehow, we the female could see the difference between those who have already spent 2 1/2 years hardships and tough trainings; and those who have yet to go through that.
You see, those who have ORD tend to have this higher level of confidence what they speak. They are also more organised and mature. In many areas, I hate to admit this, these guys can do better jobs than their female peers. You guys may not realise this change and growth that have occured in you, but the gals are quite observant in these areas (maybe gifted or 6th sense???.... hehe).
I think last time there was this Army advertisement that goes like : Army makes you a better man. There is some truth in it, I guess.
So guys, nobody can change the fact that guys have to serve the country for that period of time. While we all try to understand the hell-like life that you may have, there are also some good (though may not be many) that NS has done to you. -
Pls allow me to share my 2 cents.
I ORD about 5 months ago. While I was serving my NS, I would often whine about it. If you think back to the time you had your BMT, wasn't it fun even though we whined about it then? I'm sure some of the experiences we've had while serving our NS will help us 1 way or another when we embark on our career.
Each NS experience is unique to each of us. There are some of us who like it and some of us who don't. We can't really blame others who deem their NS experience a total waste of time. Similarly there are also many others who enjoyed their NS.
To the threadstarter, maybe you could have approached this topic in a more sensitive manner.
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actually for me, its some aspects, not totalOriginally posted by ad23:Pls allow me to share my 2 cents.
I ORD about 5 months ago. While I was serving my NS, I would often whine about it. If you think back to the time you had your BMT, wasn't it fun even though we whined about it then? I'm sure some of the experiences we've had while serving our NS will help us 1 way or another when we embark on our career.
Each NS experience is unique to each of us. There are some of us who like it and some of us who don't. We can't really blame others who deem their NS experience a total waste of time. Similarly there are also many others who enjoyed their NS.
To the threadstarter, maybe you could have approached this topic in a more sensitive manner.
i enjoy the camaderie i had with fellow servicemen -
well... so much so, but it seems to round up to one thing on all the above replies.
those who truly look back and learn something from their NS will feel that they had not waste their time.
on the other hand. those who CBL all day and learn nothing feels that it is a total waste of time.
but no matter what. even if you are a clerk, commando, techie you are contributing to the security of the nation, no matter in a part big or small.
like one reply, govt do sui sui we diam diam, one screw up we kick up a storm and KPKB. -
wrongOriginally posted by casshern:well... so much so, but it seems to round up to one thing on all the above replies.
those who truly look back and learn something from their NS will feel that they had not waste their time.
on the other hand. those who CBL all day and learn nothing feels that it is a total waste of time.
but no matter what. even if you are a clerk, commando, techie you are contributing to the security of the nation, no matter in a part big or small.
like one reply, govt do sui sui we diam diam, one screw up we kick up a storm and KPKB.
reread all the posts again to find out what exactly they are saying..... -
Get so stressed because of a 2 letter word?