Is SAF doing enough to reward SG males?
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I oso tink NS is a waste of time.
Only sgts n officers will enjoy it cos they got more power.
Pple like me will find it a torture. It's like one day is equal to a yr.
And the pay is so "high" that I couldnt save much. -
Army in Luxembourg:
http://www.nat-military-museum.lu/pageshtml/luxembourgarmy.html
Volunteer status in the Luxembourg Army is governed by the Grand Ducal Regulation of 22 September 1967 (subsequently modified).
The Army recruits on a voluntary basis. In order to satisfy the conditions of entry, applicants must:
be of Luxembourg nationality
be at least seventeen and no older than twenty-five years old
be single
have no illnesses or infirmities incompatible with military service
possess the necessary intellectual, moral and physical attributes.
Once a candidate volunteerÂ’s application has been submitted, the Police inquires into his/her background and the applicant is then called to the Military Center to undergo tests of physical aptitude and general knowledge. The decision to accept or reject the application is taken by a panel. On acceptance, candidate volunteers undergo a four monthsÂ’ basic instruction and a training course.
The candidate volunteer may withdraw during the course, but may equally be dismissed if he/she fails to meet the required intellectual, moral or physical standards.
Once the course has been completed, the candidate signs an 18-month enlistment contract (to include the up to nine-month trial period).
Volunteers leaving the Army after at least three years' service are in certain instances entitled to exclusive or priority access to posts in the Civil Service. They alone are eligible for employment as:
Army NCOs
Career Corporals
Military Band NCOs
Army Guards
Policemen (brigadier)
Customs Officers
Postmen (or women) in the Post & Telecommunications Service
Prison Guards
Forestry Commission Wardens.
In addition, they have a priority entitlement to employment in the lower ranks of the other public-sector departments, services and institutions, including social insurance bodies, local government offices and the Luxembourg state railway company.
After completion of an 18 month enlistment contract, the volunteer is admitted as police candidate if he satisfies to the required standards at the access test without taking into account his order of classification.
At the end of their engagement, volunteers may apply for successive one-year re-enlistment's rising to fifteen yearsÂ’ voluntary service.
A volunteerÂ’s monthly pay ranges from EUR 1.045,- to EUR 1.394,- depending on rank and years of service.
Part of volunteers' wages is automatically paid into a special interest rate savings account at the state savings bank (Caisse d'Épargne de l'État), access to which is blocked until the volunteer reaches the age of 21.
After 18 monthsÂ’ service, volunteers are additionally entitled to a demobilization allowance of EUR 146,- per month.
The training of volunteers is organized as follows:
three monthsÂ’ basic training
after assignment to a unit, the volunteer receives training specific to that unit
after eighteen monthsÂ’ service, volunteers are transferred to the Education Company for six or twelve months of general educational courses (thirty hours per week).
The courses include the three foreign languages (French, German and English), mathematics, geography, civics and an introduction to EDP.
Military training is kept up through short exercises, shooting practice and sports activities. After twenty-four monthsÂ’ service and on successful completion of the Army School course, those volunteers who meet the legal requirements may apply for professional training with a view to following a career reserved for Army volunteers in the lower ranks of the civil service. -
Luxembourg
GDP per capital: $58,900 (2004 est.)
Sinagpore: GDP per capital: $27,800 (2004 est.) Only half of Lux!
This stable, high-income economy - in between France, Belgium, and Germany - features solid growth, low inflation, and low unemployment. The industrial sector, initially dominated by steel, has become increasingly diversified to include chemicals, rubber, and other products. Growth in the financial sector, which now accounts for about 22% of GDP, has more than compensated for the decline in steel. Most banks are foreign-owned and have extensive foreign dealings. Agriculture is based on small family-owned farms. The economy depends on foreign and cross-border workers for more than 30% of its labor force. Although Luxembourg, like all EU members, has suffered from the global economic slump, the country enjoys an extraordinarily high standard of living.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/lu.html
For those who worship the PAP gov because of its effort to to bring Singapore from the devastation of WWII to today's $27K GDP per capital, you better figure out what went wrong when Luxembourg suffered the same occupation fate and yet is now enjoying double per capital GDP! -
cause singapore full of bookworms mah... europe was industrialized by ww2..singapore? even in the 1950s 95% of the country was still "kampong".
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personally, i think NS is crap. i just recently ORD and couldn't be happier. if you've been inside, or are still inside, you'll see the dark side, the ill-treatment, the exploitation and the cover ups. one thing i always said to my dad when i was in there was that we are all badly exploited. and it isn't illegal to do so because the government didn't make it illegal. now you know why we have no minimum wage act.
i always tell my friends though, you will not know what stupid is until you go into the army. guess those of you who have served will know what i mean. the saf is an orginzation of mainly losers, people who can't find a decent job on the outside and so choose to hide there. in my entire life, i've only met a handful or truly patriotic soldiers, one of whom i'm proud to have served under. can't say that for plenty of others.
as for the main topic of this thread. the answer is no. before i went in, i was still hanging on to this frail impression that out defence system could protect us. now, maybe i've seen too much, maybe not enough, but my trust in this is completely shattered. what can be done for nsfs? i have no idea...its not my problem anw...yes, that may sound selfish, but thats what u learn in the army...fend for urself first...others later.... -
reward? dun tink so ba...juz doing our fair bit for the nation..remember during the sars period? the docs n nurses selflessly working rd the clock taking care the sars patients n etc? n not forgetting the support staffs as well. diff. ppl hv diff. views becoz we look @ things from diff. perspective..juz b level headed n listen to others comments...in my humble opinion, not all who hv been thru ns enjoy due to mismanagement..n mismanagement is common n happening everywhere..but in ns, u can do nothing abt it if u r a low ranking soldier unlike in the private sector..u dun like ur company's management? juz quit n get another job..u dun hv the luxury to quit the saf if u r serving NS.
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There's no reward in conscription.Just pray hard that you have the chance to serve under bosses and commanders who are real men and professional soldiers, people who are not afraid to do the right thing and give you equal respect.
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[quote]Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
Luxembourg
GDP per capital: $58,900 (2004 est.)
Sinagpore: GDP per capital: $27,800 (2004 est.) Only half of Lux!
This stable, high-income economy - in between France, Belgium, and Germany - features solid growth, low inflation, and low unemployment. The industrial sector, initially dominated by steel, has become increasingly diversified to include chemicals, rubber, and other products. Growth in the financial sector, which now accounts for about 22% of GDP, has more than compensated for the decline in steel. Most banks are foreign-owned and have extensive foreign dealings. Agriculture is based on small family-owned farms. The economy depends on foreign and cross-border workers for more than 30% of its labor force. Although Luxembourg, like all EU members, has suffered from the global economic slump, the country enjoys an extraordinarily high standard of living.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/lu.html
For those who worship the PAP gov because of its effort to to bring Singapore from the devastation of WWII to today's $27K GDP per capital, you better figure out what went wrong when Luxembourg suffered the same occupation fate and yet is now enjoying double per capital GDP![quote]
Founded in 963, Luxembourg became a grand duchy in 1815 and an independent state under the Netherlands. It lost more than half of its territory to Belgium in 1839, but gained a larger measure of autonomy. Full independence was attained in 1867. Overrun by Germany in both World Wars, it ended its neutrality in 1948 when it entered into the Benelux Customs Union and when it joined NATO the following year. In 1957, Luxembourg became one of the six founding countries of the European Economic Community (later the European Union), and in 1999 it joined the euro currency area. -
Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
Army in Luxembourg:
http://www.nat-military-museum.lu/pageshtml/luxembourgarmy.html
Volunteer status in the Luxembourg Army is governed by the Grand Ducal Regulation of 22 September 1967 (subsequently modified).
The Army recruits on a voluntary basis. In order to satisfy the conditions of entry, applicants must:
be of Luxembourg nationality
be at least seventeen and no older than twenty-five years old
be single
have no illnesses or infirmities incompatible with military service
possess the necessary intellectual, moral and physical attributes.
Once a candidate volunteerÂ’s application has been submitted, the Police inquires into his/her background and the applicant is then called to the Military Center to undergo tests of physical aptitude and general knowledge. The decision to accept or reject the application is taken by a panel. On acceptance, candidate volunteers undergo a four monthsÂ’ basic instruction and a training course.
The candidate volunteer may withdraw during the course, but may equally be dismissed if he/she fails to meet the required intellectual, moral or physical standards.
Once the course has been completed, the candidate signs an 18-month enlistment contract (to include the up to nine-month trial period).
Volunteers leaving the Army after at least three years' service are in certain instances entitled to exclusive or priority access to posts in the Civil Service. They alone are eligible for employment as:
Army NCOs
Career Corporals
Military Band NCOs
Army Guards
Policemen (brigadier)
Customs Officers
Postmen (or women) in the Post & Telecommunications Service
Prison Guards
Forestry Commission Wardens.
In addition, they have a priority entitlement to employment in the lower ranks of the other public-sector departments, services and institutions, including social insurance bodies, local government offices and the Luxembourg state railway company.
After completion of an 18 month enlistment contract, the volunteer is admitted as police candidate if he satisfies to the required standards at the access test without taking into account his order of classification.
At the end of their engagement, volunteers may apply for successive one-year re-enlistment's rising to fifteen yearsÂ’ voluntary service.
A volunteerÂ’s monthly pay ranges from EUR 1.045,- to EUR 1.394,- depending on rank and years of service.
Part of volunteers' wages is automatically paid into a special interest rate savings account at the state savings bank (Caisse d'Épargne de l'État), access to which is blocked until the volunteer reaches the age of 21.
After 18 monthsÂ’ service, volunteers are additionally entitled to a demobilization allowance of EUR 146,- per month.
The training of volunteers is organized as follows:
three monthsÂ’ basic training
after assignment to a unit, the volunteer receives training specific to that unit
after eighteen monthsÂ’ service, volunteers are transferred to the Education Company for six or twelve months of general educational courses (thirty hours per week).
The courses include the three foreign languages (French, German and English), mathematics, geography, civics and an introduction to EDP.
Military training is kept up through short exercises, shooting practice and sports activities. After twenty-four monthsÂ’ service and on successful completion of the Army School course, those volunteers who meet the legal requirements may apply for professional training with a view to following a career reserved for Army volunteers in the lower ranks of the civil service.
Although compulsory military servicewas introduced with the Grand Ducal decree of 30 November 1944, as amended and supplemented by that of 4 July 1945, it was not until 9 July 1945 that the first conscripts of the 1945 year group were called up.
Between 1945 and 1967, the duration of national service was not the same for all year groups.
The legal requirement varied from 6 to 12 months, and the last batch of conscripts from the 1947 year group only served for 3 months.
Year Group Duration of National Service
1925 - 1928 12 months
1929 - 1931 6 months
1932 - 1945 12 months
1946 - 9 months
1947 - 6 months
Some 34,700 Luxembourg national servicemen called up from year groups 1925 - 1947 served with the colors. -
Served n chionged 2.5 years n what do i get in return? a incurable chronic back ache/slipped disc problem n i m still only in my early 20s !
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not worth itOriginally posted by air_riddler:Served n chionged 2.5 years n what do i get in return? a incurable chronic back ache/slipped disc problem n i m still only in my early 20s ! -
pay $350 of course get $350 worth of services.
pay peanuts , get monkeys defending your country.
even gurkhas get more!
foreign talent somemore -
actually...i was paid something like $400 plus...but they expect $4000 plus worth of service. severely underpaid, chronically overworked. crap.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:pay $350 of course get $350 worth of services.
pay peanuts , get monkeys defending your country.
even gurkhas get more!
foreign talent somemore -
Speaking about rewards, when every gahmen servants' pay (including army regulars, officers) is benchmarked with private sector pay and economic performance and SAF uses an outdated benchmark and pays NSmen way way below the new benchmark, I don't see how they can expect NSmen to be motivated to do NS with tiny kacang pay.
When they pay kacang pay, it's natural they get kacang NS service.
So me thinks there's much they can do about NSmen's pay and they can start with setting the same fair benchmark for them too.
And then there's compensation - are they doing enough to compensate NSmen who die or suffer injuries in NS? Still outdated kacang benchmark?
How to survive with kacang compensation?
Agree?
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It all boils down to...
"We are not paid enough to fight"
then the argument of...
"This is your country... defending it is a duty..."
followed by a...
"In this modern era... nobody uses infantries for war anymore. Throw in millions of money into equipment but never pay your men well to use them... what's the point"
Then the cycle repeats... -
pay no. Not just about money. It is the sense of worth to put our life at risk. the system sucks. no sense of loyalty.
in the meantime.. did any body notice since that new head took over..tough legislation coming down hard and fast..
some bro said serve SAF to protect family. best way to protec fam? siam when war breaks out!
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No doubt the country has to be served. I do wish more could be done in terms of the sacrifices we make for the country? Afterall, it's a VERY ROUND WORLD... A horse which is not CONVINCED to run, when you whip it... It'll just starts to run in all directions...
I'm just kinda SURPRISED at the LEGAL POWER NS and RESERVIST can BIND OVER US... AND YET... SO LITTLE it's willing to do to justify the pay DIFFERENCE when we step out into the society or when we're in genuine need for help... Always finding STUPID EXCUSES... "Can't do this, can't do that..." How come can FORCE we to SERVE
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tell him :
Name : MR LEE HSIEN LOONG (Prime Minister & Minister for Finance )
Address : Prime Minister's Office, Istana Annexe Singapore 238823
Tel : 63327200
Fax : 63349405
Email : [email protected] -
Later isd come put you in dbOriginally posted by mistyblue:tell him :
Name : MR LEE HSIEN LOONG (Prime Minister & Minister for Finance )
Address : Prime Minister's Office, Istana Annexe Singapore 238823
Tel : 63327200
Fax : 63349405
Email : [email protected] -
ISD is setup to catch people who are ploting treason against singapore.Originally posted by seow:Later isd come put you in db
They cannot be bothered with every tom dick and harry...
Besides, since this guy feels strongly about the NS, he should speak to some one who can do something about it. -
I want to add...Originally posted by DrTech:It all boils down to...
"In this modern era... nobody uses infantries for war anymore. Throw in millions of money into equipment but never pay your men well to use them... what's the point"
Then the cycle repeats...
In this modern era, where globalisation is the norm, one is essentailly a citizen of the Earth. One should be loyal to Earth and to yourself. So if there is an alien invasion, yeah, maybe i will defend Earth, but if another country invade Singapore, I will just treat it as a family spad and stand as a neutral party.
Next, in the era that we grow up in, the PAP gov taught us to be merocratic in thinking, aka get good grades, get good job, get good PAY. So how can the gov expect sg males to serve NS with pride when the PAY is pathetic?
Also, do you know that a foreign degree fresh graduate will get his employment pass with ease once he gets a job in Singapore? As a fresh grad, he is hardly considered as a talent, yet his employment pass will be approved with extreme ease! In other words, you can have every tom dick and harry foreigners competing with you for a job even if he is a fresh grad!
Can an accountant confirm if that foreigner pays nearly the same income tax as a NSed sg male? -
Originally posted by Cindyfeh:
I want to add...
In this modern era, where globalisation is the norm, one is essentailly a citizen of the Earth. One should be loyal to Earth and to yourself. So if there is an alien invasion, yeah, maybe i will defend Earth, but if another country invade Singapore, I will just treat it as a family spad and stand as a neutral party.
You are insane. I suspect you have watched too much sci-fi show. No doubt, if the earth is being invade, every people in every ounce of the land will fight back. How can one be loyal to the earth when one can't even show patriotism to one own country.
Next, in the era that we grow up in, the PAP gov taught us to be merocratic in thinking, aka get good grades, get good job, get good PAY. So how can the gov expect sg males to serve NS with pride when the PAY is pathetic?
Treat 2 years NS as an experience. Have human evolve to such a stage where money is the only sole motivation in life or is it only you.
Also, do you know that a foreign degree fresh graduate will get his employment pass with ease once he gets a job in Singapore? As a fresh grad, he is hardly considered as a talent, yet his employment pass will be approved with extreme ease! In other words, you can have every tom dick and harry foreigners competing with you for a job even if he is a fresh grad!
How sure are you on this? But since you mentioned globalisation, provided one can secure a job abroad first, the likewise can be also true.
Can an accountant confirm if that foreigner pays nearly the same income tax as a NSed sg male?
Not sure. But definetly no NS incentives & rebate. -
u are welcome..in fact if u want me to comment again..im glad to do it..Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Thanks for commenting on my brain.
I know SAMs can shoot down guided missles but I don't think any system can shoot down artillery shells right?
As for poisoning of the reserviors, I don't know precisely how but there is no fence around the reserviors, so physical barriers is not a problem.
Mightier countries like USA believes that terrorist attack on homeland is not possible, look what happened?
Any way, my stand is still the same, NS is basically a waste of time for Singaporean males and it serves only to protect the million dollars 999 years or freehold properties of the elites.
once again u are not using it very well..
how near are u gona push your so call Arty pieces without SAF noticing something is wrong?
u make it sound like Arty shell can fly from one continent to another..
btw since when i mention anything abt SAMs?
n also pls dun make arty sound like that they are damn zhun..
no..let me guess..u will say we are so incapable that they wont notice..
u make it sound like we dun have Arty unit ourself..
abt the poison..im asking u how much poison u gona use?
not asking u how u gona do it..
wat poison are u gona use?
how much so it can be effective?
im sure no one will notice dead fish floating on the water after u poison the reservior..
im sure u dunno abt reservoir water still have to go thru the water plant before it can be use for drinking..im sure they dun do check on the water see if they are clean enough anot..(any expert here?)
im also very sure u are not using your brain very effectively..
did anyone say terrorist attack here not possible here?
are we discussing abt terrorist here?
if u think terrorist attack will bring Singapore down to its knee..
this prove ur a weak minded person...
its because of u this kinda person..that terrorist might have a chance to attack SG...cos u simply dont care..just becos the govt treat u like crap(i wont deny it)
all of your point is valid..unless that country have no defence at all
good for u to hold your stand..not many can do it
but u cant hold any ground... -
how are u gona siam?Originally posted by kingcuttlefish:pay no. Not just about money. It is the sense of worth to put our life at risk. the system sucks. no sense of loyalty.
in the meantime.. did any body notice since that new head took over..tough legislation coming down hard and fast..
some bro said serve SAF to protect family. best way to protec fam? siam when war breaks out!
fly your own plane? -
No i am not insane. It is just exaggeration. Meaning, no way I am going to take up a chopping knife and fight for Singapore.Originally posted by TooFree:...aliens....
How sure are you on this? But since you mentioned globalisation, provided one can secure a job abroad first, the likewise can be also true.
I am very sure once you get a job offer in Singapore, getting employment pass is easy. Ask your HR friends about that. It is just too easy.