Australian are too emotional and irrational
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...come on, what would YOU do if you are forced?
sorry, but thats how the law system works.....so what if you HAVE to help your brother, isn't his brother's not Singapore's fault that HE got his ownself into trouble. come on, i bet he is already prepared for the "fruits of his labour" -
well you still haven't answered the question. don't dare to? huh?Originally posted by Griffie:...come on, what would YOU do if you are forced?
sorry, but thats how the law system works.....so what if you HAVE to help your brother, isn't his brother's not Singapore's fault that HE got his ownself into trouble. come on, i bet he is already prepared for the "fruits of his labour"
If i were forced, do i really have a choice? its my family at risk. of course i'd take the chance. but honestly it wouldn't be fair if i had to die. but i suppose, singaporeans are either too stupid or too lazy to see that. -
since you took the chance....then die loh....(i understand this is heartless for me to say that, i know and i regret in doing so)Originally posted by HENG@:well you still haven't answered the question. don't dare to? huh?
If i were forced, do i really have a choice? its my family at risk. of course i'd take the chance. but honestly it wouldn't be fair if i had to die. but i suppose, singaporeans are either too stupid or too lazy to see that.
i agree it is not fair too....
BUT the moment we let go this fella the Singaporean Government would have open a can of worms.
pls think for the sake of a nation of few million people, we are too small in size to make this fatal mistake of letting him go and the mistake WILL cause our destruction. -
its normal for them to get worked up, after all , its one of their citizens and although he has commited a serious crime, they feel they should be the ones to punish him and not usOriginally posted by caramon.:To get rid of drugs - hang the smuggler. What else could be simpler?
Take the case of Nguyen Tuong Van, everyone in Australia is so worked up because Singapore is about to hang him. This Austrailian Vietnamese was forced by the triads to smuggle drugs to help his twin brother who is in debt.
If he is a Singaporean nobody would have cared, time is just too precious to fight for a criminal, Singaporeans has many other more important things to do like shopping, tours and karaoke.
Something is really wrong with Australians, why bother with Singapore hanging one of their citizens, they have 20 million people more than us. They should understand Singapore is helping them to get rid of one of their criminals - they should thank us, for their nation is now safer.
Nguyen Tuong Van will obviously endangered the lives of people by his crime, why else would a "rational country" like Singapore want to hang him? These Australians and human rights group are acting so emotionally and irrationally over this.
We singaporeans are really lucky that we have such a unique and wonderful system in place. However, not many ang moh countries appreciate the beauty behind our beloved PAP Logic.
but what Singapore did is right, he is endangering the lives of Singaporeans, therefore the verdict is perfectly ok
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EXCUSE MEOriginally posted by Griffie:since you took the chance....then die loh....(i understand this is heartless for me to say that, i know and i regret in doing so)
i agree it is not fair too....
BUT the moment we let go this fella the Singaporean Government would have open a can of worms.
pls think for the sake of a nation of few million people, we are too small in size to make this fatal mistake of letting him go and the mistake WILL cause our destruction.
u still haven't answered. WHAT IF IT IS U?
why so many replies still cannot answer?
dun worry about making this mistake and causing your own detruction. Sinagporean's apathy and inability to really think is already causing the destruction of the nation. -
u too. another one who refuse to think. go answer my question. What IF U WERE HIM?Originally posted by WiNtEr'SkiLL:its normal for them to get worked up, after all , its one of their citizens and although he has commited a serious crime, they feel they should be the ones to punish him and not us
but what Singapore did is right, he is endangering the lives of Singaporeans, therefore the verdict is perfectly ok -
Who ever said release him?We are talking about just, humane and fair punishment.There is a consensus that he has breached some law, but he does not deserve to die, not especially so when mitigating factors are taken into place.Originally posted by Griffie:since you took the chance....then die loh....(i understand this is heartless for me to say that, i know and i regret in doing so)
i agree it is not fair too....
BUT the moment we let go this fella the Singaporean Government would have open a can of worms.
pls think for the sake of a nation of few million people, we are too small in size to make this fatal mistake of letting him go and the mistake WILL cause our destruction.
Don't always buy the line that you are fed for 40 years that there is only one way to ensure the progress and evolution of Singapore. -
like i said la. All go to school for 10 over years, all come out braindead. Get educated for Fuck? might as well all go n die la.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Who ever said release him?We are talking about just, humane and fair punishment.There is a consensus that he has breached some law, but he does not deserve to die, not especially so when mitigating factors are taken into place.
Don't always buy the line that you are fed for 40 years that there is only one way to ensure the progress and evolution of Singapore. -
dun kill him then do wat.... life imprisonment?, sent him to ulu ulu island? like this even worse wat.......
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No offence but may I ask what this case has to do with Singaporeans being lazy and stupid?
It is sad that he is forced to smuggle drugs so that he could save his family, I'm sure we all feel for him. But, a crime is a crime. He may not deserve the death sentence, but who are we to dispute that?
Under the law, all are equal. Isn't that why the Lady of Justice is blindfolded? -
Lady of Justice is blindfolded from long time ago. Even in UK laws have been changed so that migitating factors are considered and there is no 'mandatory' sentence for any sort of crime. All factors will be considered. I mean if singaporeans are happy with leftover laws from old unrefined english laws, then ok loh. but that really shows either laziness or stupidity right?Originally posted by ^spidee^:No offence but may I ask what this case has to do with Singaporeans being lazy and stupid?
It is sad that he is forced to smuggle drugs so that he could save his family, I'm sure we all feel for him. But, a crime is a crime. He may not deserve the death sentence, but who are we to dispute that?
Under the law, all are equal. Isn't that why the Lady of Justice is blindfolded?
"He may not deserve the death sentence, but who are we to dispute that?"
I'll tell u who we are. We are people with brain and capacity for compassion and lateral thought. We are people with the ability to discern between different cases with different ingredients. We are people with the ability to not lump everything into one 'easy to deal with' mental package, thats who we are. -
Singaporeans are lazy and stupid!
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Let's say we spare him. What do you think will happen? Laws can't be changed overnight. I guess what we are all arguing about is whether mandatory death sentence is justified in a case like this. Not considering the fact that he was forced, it is not. Heck, he wasn't even going to smuggle drugs into Singapore.Originally posted by HENG@:Lady of Justice is blindfolded from long time ago. Even in UK laws have been changed so that migitating factors are considered and there is no 'mandatory' sentence for any sort of crime. All factors will be considered. I mean if singaporeans are happy with leftover laws from old unrefined english laws, then ok loh. but that really shows either laziness or stupidity right?
"He may not deserve the death sentence, but who are we to dispute that?"
I'll tell u who we are. We are people with brain and capacity for compassion and lateral thought. We are people with the ability to discern between different cases with different ingredients. We are people with the ability to not lump everything into one 'easy to deal with' mental package, thats who we are.
The law may be rigid, but it is also equal and fair in that all who commit the same crime will be punished in the same way. The dispute here should really about his intention. He wasn't intending to smuggle the drugs into Singapore, he was merely in transit.
It's just too sad that a young life has to be lost like this. -
What I think will happen is that a preceedence will be set for future cases for all factors to be considered. Perhaps the "mandatory" behind the death sentence for drugs smuggling above certain weight will be removed. It might set people thinking, set law makers thinking and discusing. Maybe the law can't be changed overnight, but it can be changed. As someone once said, "Since it can't be changed overnight, what are we waiting for? Get started already!"Originally posted by ^spidee^:Let's say we spare him. What do you think will happen? Laws can't be changed overnight. I guess what we are all arguing about is whether mandatory death sentence is justified in a case like this. Not considering the fact that he was forced, it is not. Heck, he wasn't even going to smuggle drugs into Singapore.
The law may be rigid, but it is also equal and fair in that all who commit the same crime will be punished in the same way. The dispute here should really about his intention. He wasn't intending to smuggle the drugs into Singapore, he was merely in transit.
It's just too sad that a young life has to be lost like this.
singaporeans maybe have this attitude that if something cannot be done quick, then dun need to do it. I really can't tell if this is stupidity or laziness. Or apathy. -
You mean abolish the death sentence altogether?Originally posted by HENG@:What I think will happen is that a preceedence will be set for future cases for all factors to be considered. Perhaps the "mandatory" behind the death sentence for drugs smuggling above certain weight will be removed. -
no.First step is to remove the mandatory portion.And yes, I think the majority of Singaporeans don't really care.And what you do not care for, you cannot defend properly.Originally posted by ^spidee^:You mean abolish the death sentence altogether?
What a waste of our human resources when they are just chugging along on one single line.. -
What if we do that, and drug trafficking increase? Also, how do we truly know whether a trafficker is being forced to smuggle drugs like in Nguyen's case? It is all too ambiguous and subject to manipulation don't you think?Originally posted by LazerLordz:no.First step is to remove the mandatory portion.And yes, I think the majority of Singaporeans don't really care.And what you do not care for, you cannot defend properly.
What a waste of our human resources when they are just chugging along on one single line..
Even with the death sentence as deterrence, drug traffickers exist in Singapore. It's for the greater good of society as a whole I guess. -
no. make it the maximum possible sentence for drug trafficking. But abolish the mandatoryness of a death sentence. Every case has to be considered as unique, and looked at with more consideration.Originally posted by ^spidee^:You mean abolish the death sentence altogether? -
it won't if it a death sentence is still applicable, just not a must for all cases. Honestly, jail is often a very big deterrent esp if u're gonna get Ass-raped in jail.Originally posted by ^spidee^:What if we do that, and drug trafficking increase? Also, how do we truly know whether a trafficker is being forced to smuggle drugs like in Nguyen's case? It is all too ambiguous and subject to manipulation don't you think?
Even with the death sentence as deterrence, drug traffickers exist in Singapore. It's for the greater good of society as a whole I guess.
Anyays if u think its too ambiguous in Nguyen's case, lets just say, to excecute a person on an ambiguity, feels even worse don't u think? Having a mandatory death sentence is not for the greater good of society. Its for the good of society, but the resulting unthinking and unfeeling society it creates, is for the GREATER detriment of society as a whole. -
Hmm, I'd have to agree on the unfeeling part. But I guess the law hadn't taken that into consideration when setting mandatory death sentence.Originally posted by HENG@:it won't if it a death sentence is still applicable, just not a must for all cases. Honestly, jail is often a very big deterrent esp if u're gonna get Ass-raped in jail.
Anyays if u think its too ambiguous in Nguyen's case, lets just say, to excecute a person on an ambiguity, feels even worse don't u think? Having a mandatory death sentence is not for the greater good of society. Its for the good of society, but the resulting unthinking and unfeeling society it creates, is for the GREATER detriment of society as a whole.
However, I still think that lessening the sentence will see drug lords abuse the system. -
Much of the law comes from old english laws, which since, have been substantially updated here!Originally posted by ^spidee^:Hmm, I'd have to agree on the unfeeling part. But I guess the law hadn't taken that into consideration when setting mandatory death sentence.
However, I still think that lessening the sentence will see drug lords abuse the system.
I don't think lessening the sentence will see drug lords abuse the system. How is making it a maximum sentence but not a mandatory one increase the rate of drug smuggling?
Kidnapping carries the max sentence of death but its not mandatory and I don't see many such cases happening either. -
They could smuggle in quantities that wouldn't be punishable by death, yet multiply the number of their traffickers. Since they wouldn't have to do it themselves and the monetary rewards are sufficient for them to potentially lose a sidekick, it is fundamentally different from kidnapping.Originally posted by HENG@:Much of the law comes from old english laws, which since, have been substantially updated here!
I don't think lessening the sentence will see drug lords abuse the system. How is making it a maximum sentence but not a mandatory one increase the rate of drug smuggling?
Kidnapping carries the max sentence of death but its not mandatory and I don't see many such cases happening either.
Could it be because of the size of Singapore that we have to implement such harsh sentences? It probably wouldn't take long for the society to be adversely affected by drugs, compared to bigger nations. -
One of the perks about removing 'mandatory' from a death sentence and making it a maximum penalty, is that u are not limited by the quantity of drugs smuggled too. It means for a hardcore offender, it can apply even if the quantity he's currently arrested for is smaller than the current weight limit for the death penalty to apply.Originally posted by ^spidee^:They could smuggle in quantities that wouldn't be punishable by death, yet multiply the number of their traffickers. Since they wouldn't have to do it themselves and the monetary rewards are sufficient for them to potentially lose a sidekick, it is fundamentally different from kidnapping.
Could it be because of the size of Singapore that we have to implement such harsh sentences? It probably wouldn't take long for the society to be adversely affected by drugs, compared to bigger nations.
in any case, I feel that trading off our humanity for being free from drugs is a poor trade-off. I always feel that attacking the supply is silly because there will be supply with demand. Attack the demand, not the supply, because its a futile thing to attack supply alone and in the long run it solves nothing. And im certainly not willing to trade our own humanity for a futile gesture which solves nothing in the end. -
I get your point now.Originally posted by HENG@:One of the perks about removing 'mandatory' from a death sentence and making it a maximum penalty, is that u are not limited by the quantity of drugs smuggled too. It means for a hardcore offender, it can apply even if the quantity he's currently arrested for is smaller than the current weight limit for the death penalty to apply.
in any case, I feel that trading off our humanity for being free from drugs is a poor trade-off. I always feel that attacking the supply is silly because there will be supply with demand. Attack the demand, not the supply, because its a futile thing to attack supply alone and in the long run it solves nothing. And im certainly not willing to trade our own humanity for a futile gesture which solves nothing in the end.
Hope that as you said, Nguyen's case could be a precedence for aboishing mandatory death setence.
This article might be of interest:
http://theage.com.au/news/world/antihanging-protest-planned/2005/10/31/1130720469063.html -
Originally posted by ^spidee^:I get your point now.
Hope that as you said, Nguyen's case could be a precedence for aboishing mandatory death setence.
This article might be of interest:
http://theage.com.au/news/world/antihanging-protest-planned/2005/10/31/1130720469063.html