Are beating of female students in secondary school allowed??
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well , you have your opinion. I have mine, and mine tells me that certain ideals have to be upheld, even at the cost of something else.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:what the girl did was relevant , her intentions count as well as the initial case
it all leads up to what happened in the end .
after what she has done and having given us her reactions to the whole case, damn if i'm just going to accept what she says and say ,
"oh i think you're right ! the principal is threatening you! lets lynch the principal in the name of justice ! "
if her account of what happened can make me feel so negative about her , i don't even want to know what the principal has to say about her . not that i think the principal is right all the way of course , but what do you expect her to do about it ? write a letter to moe saying this?
"i am a poor little girl who got threaten by the principal , please sack her and do me justice, i want equal rights , i am a human being too , i have parents too blah blah blah "
ps: just a personal opinion, totally unrelated to this thread
i feel that this girl is going to grow up someday into a nasty bItch , not just any nasty bItch, THE nasty Bitch , the one that you always see at your work place , never does her share of work , bullying the new staff she doesn't like and find ways to get back at people all the time .the only one thing that can stop Bitches like these is an even nastier bitcH
Disclaimer: I am a male forumer , currently 23 going on 24 this year . I am definately not the girl who reported the girl who started this thread , nor have I ever met her. And I have also no idea which school she's in or where it is located.
that's not much of a palatable choice either.but she will learn her lesson another time, another place. -
i know what you mean about your ideals, but if you do that it would mean the same ideals you're upholding would be violated when she goes around doing the same thing the principal did to her to someone else which would probably mean more then the amount who would have been originally hurt .Originally posted by LazerLordz:well , you have your opinion. I have mine, and mine tells me that certain ideals have to be upheld, even at the cost of something else.
that's not much of a palatable choice either.but she will learn her lesson another time, another place.
maybe its different for you, but for me justice and revenge are different things alltogether
i see people screaming for revenge in the name of justice almost everyday. "Rights" is only a means of getting something that particular person wants. its no longer about everyone -
poor thn sia....
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Hi Wei Jie,
I am an ex-student of that school and I know what the conditions are like, or at least have a good level of experiencing them. I have personally had encounters with her before and it definitely was not pleasant.
My advice to you now is, if there are any marks present on your hand(s), like scars or scabs or anything of that sort, please seek medical attention immediately. If possible, get your doctor to write you a detailed description of the wound, as well as the possible source(s) of infliction.
Even the strictest and most horrifying person to be sent to (at that time while I was still there), known to most as Mr H**, would never ever use any force against a girl. Mr S*** as well would not even think about it. It was clearly a no-go zone. Maybe now she thinks it's ok for her to do so as she's female as well.
Next, tell your parents about the incident. Hopefully, they will be supportive and do the right thing to fire off some strong-worded emails to MOE. I don't mean vulgar, I mean stern. What my parent did when I had my nasty experience was to shoot off emails, one directly to the minister at that time, and another to the department in charge. Within a week, if I remember correctly, I was seated in her office, together with my parents, then vice-principal Mr Tony Low (an immensely magnanimous and most pleasant gentleman), as well as the cluster superintendent.
When I'd first stepped in, I'd almost mistaken her voice for the Pastoral Care's teachers'. It was definitely far from the tone she would use on any other day. She was absolutely polite and gentle, patient and would back off at any time to listen to anyone else speak. Definitely not her usual self. As understood from information given to me by a classmate, whose mother was also a superintendent, it would take a very serious matter for them to make a trip down to the school.
What happened after that, PM me if you're interested to find out.
I will be more than happy to help you out as much as I can.
It is no secret at all that a lot of staff who were once loyal to the school's name are now shying away from it. I even had one of my ex-teachers call her something really profane. Countless teachers have left that place already, and it is pretty obvious why.
For those who are interested/curious/kaypoh, here's a short list, off the top of my head, of other revolting actions taken by her:
1) During one chapel service, she spoke to us about a couple who was featured in the news regarding their divorce and the huge amount of asset that was to be divided. She went on to muse aloud about how she wished that she knew that lady, who had received a big piece of the pie, and that she would not hesitate to ask her for the $3 million dollars which we needed to fund our renovations. I felt that it was utterly disgusting of her to have openly displayed such an act of superficiality and wiliness. There are some things money can't buy; for everything else, there's her.
2) One morning, she was in her usual morning mood and decided to share her Good Morning! with everyone for not lining up in time in the assembly area. In this case, it was something like be there 15 minutes ahead of the bell's ring. Extra greetings were sent to those who had arrived past 7.20am, and had special places to stand. I remember extremely vividly that part of her Good Morning said, "I WILL RULE YOU WITH AN IRON FIST IF I HAVE TO!" And I was there, shocked, yet unsurprised, while this mother had her mouth half-opened, wanting to look at me for help.
3) There was another morning of hers where she had an urge to do something drastic to some of the guy's pants. There was a supposed problem that many of the guy's pants had been worn too low.
Now I myself have flipped through the school diary or whatever they called it, the one which is blue and included a lousy diagram of their ideal male and female student. It had never stated anything about the level at which our pants was to be worn. As we all know, the pants we had were ridiculously short and made us look like right pansies. What happened next was utterly incredible. She got her prefects, I called them the Sturm-Abteilungs (Nazi Storm Troopers), to pick all the boys who had unsatisfactory pants height to stand in front of the rest of the school. They were then stripped off their school pants and left to stand there in whatever they had left.
4) Another incident I remember very clearly was a random haircut for the spiky-haired boys. Again the SA was sent out and any male with a spikey hair-do, or any gel on their heads, were first sent to the toilets for a good washing. After that, we were marched to the hall where we had to line up side-by-side. She then marched down the line, with a pair of scissors, and angrily snipped at every boy's hair till she felt satisfied. In a show of protection of their rights, a big majority of them had their heads shaved by the next day.
5) Muslims during chapel - This particular new regulation was definitely uncalled for. Before her rule, Muslims, and if I'm not wrong, Sikhs, were allowed free period during chapel service. This meant that they were free to roam the school grounds, except classrooms of course, but staying in highly visible areas such as the library or canteen was strongly recommended. After she had been instituted, they were all to sit at the back of the hall, each person at individual tables separated from each other, while the rest of us attended chapel.
6) Throwing of furniture down the school building during cleanliness checks. She was unhappy with their standards and proceeded to dispose of their tables and chairs in an absolutely unruly and uncivilised manner, reasoning that they did not deserve their places.
These are just a mere few cases of her actions. If anyone has more to add, please do so! Good luck to you, Wei Jie. In any society, the iron fist will never survive long. -
LazerLordz: Salute!Originally posted by LazerLordz:well , you have your opinion. I have mine, and mine tells me that certain ideals have to be upheld, even at the cost of something else.
that's not much of a palatable choice either.but she will learn her lesson another time, another place.
By the way, to the rest of you who have not experienced what we have, if you've got anything along the lines of "good for you" or "you deserved it", please do sod off. I sincerely wish you all the best in your oh-so-perfect-lives where you have never broken a single rule in your entire life. This girl has been physically abused and she is seeking help for and over-reaction. Such punishments are definitely out-of-place in a school, more so in one which claims to advocate so strongly the values of Christianity. -
Finally,i want to say,hitting a girl 25 X on her hand is too much[furthermore got injury],this discipine mistress should be sack,remember Nan Chiau sec school incident,just a light knock with a book on the student's head,the principal got tranfer out,for Fishyang's case,i think give her 1-2 strokes of the cane is good enough.!
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I'm not advocating vengeful behavior, but I do speak from experience because I was from a similar school where there were certain people who routinely abused their powers.Originally posted by Kr0n:LazerLordz: Salute!
By the way, to the rest of you who have not experienced what we have, if you've got anything along the lines of "good for you" or "you deserved it", please do sod off. I sincerely wish you all the best in your oh-so-perfect-lives where you have never broken a single rule in your entire life. This girl has been physically abused and she is seeking help for and over-reaction. Such punishments are definitely out-of-place in a school, more so in one which claims to advocate so strongly the values of Christianity.
Oh I will not go into it.I mean, for us guys, we live and let live, because there are a few who have accused some teachers wrongly.
But this case, from what I see, is quite clear cut.Perhaps the degree is not that serious, but I would say the variation would not affect the allegation by a large margin. -
Originally posted by Kr0n:
Woah! Didn't know that this principal has such a big appetite for money, now her iron fist causes injury to others, and practises 1990s-styled of National Service military ruling by throwing furniture.
Hi Wei Jie,
I am an ex-student of that school and I know what the conditions are like, or at least have a good level of experiencing them. I have personally had encounters with her before and it definitely was not pleasant.
My advice to you now is, if there are any marks present on your hand(s), like scars or scabs or anything of that sort, please seek medical attention [b]immediately. If possible, get your doctor to write you a detailed description of the wound, as well as the possible source(s) of infliction.
Even the strictest and most horrifying person to be sent to (at that time while I was still there), known to most as Mr H**, would never ever use any force against a girl. Mr S*** as well would not even think about it. It was clearly a no-go zone. Maybe now she thinks it's ok for her to do so as she's female as well.
Next, tell your parents about the incident. Hopefully, they will be supportive and do the right thing to fire off some strong-worded emails to MOE. I don't mean vulgar, I mean stern. What my parent did when I had my nasty experience was to shoot off emails, one directly to the minister at that time, and another to the department in charge. Within a week, if I remember correctly, I was seated in her office, together with my parents, then vice-principal Mr Tony Low (an immensely magnanimous and most pleasant gentleman), as well as the cluster superintendent.
When I'd first stepped in, I'd almost mistaken her voice for the Pastoral Care's teachers'. It was definitely far from the tone she would use on any other day. She was absolutely polite and gentle, patient and would back off at any time to listen to anyone else speak. Definitely not her usual self. As understood from information given to me by a classmate, whose mother was also a superintendent, it would take a very serious matter for them to make a trip down to the school.
What happened after that, PM me if you're interested to find out. I will be more than happy to help you out as much as I can.
It is no secret at all that a lot of staff who were once loyal to the school's name are now shying away from it. I even had one of my ex-teachers call her something really profane. Countless teachers have left that place already, and it is pretty obvious why.
For those who are interested/curious/kaypoh, here's a short list, off the top of my head, of other revolting actions taken by her:
1) During one chapel service, she spoke to us about a couple who was featured in the news regarding their divorce and the huge amount of asset that was to be divided. She went on to muse aloud about how she wished that she knew that lady, who had received a big piece of the pie, and that she would not hesitate to ask her for the $3 million dollars which we needed to fund our renovations. I felt that it was utterly disgusting of her to have openly displayed such an act of superficiality and wiliness. There are some things money can't buy; for everything else, there's her.
2) One morning, she was in her usual morning mood and decided to share her Good Morning! with everyone for not lining up in time in the assembly area. In this case, it was something like be there 15 minutes ahead of the bell's ring. Extra greetings were sent to those who had arrived past 7.20am, and had special places to stand. I remember extremely vividly that part of her Good Morning said, "I WILL RULE YOU WITH AN IRON FIST IF I HAVE TO!" And I was there, shocked, yet unsurprised, while this mother had her mouth half-opened, wanting to look at me for help.
3) There was another morning of hers where she had an urge to do something drastic to some of the guy's pants. There was a supposed problem that many of the guy's pants had been worn too low.
Now I myself have flipped through the school diary or whatever they called it, the one which is blue and included a lousy diagram of their ideal male and female student. It had never stated anything about the level at which our pants was to be worn. As we all know, the pants we had were ridiculously short and made us look like right pansies. What happened next was utterly incredible. She got her prefects, I called them the Sturm-Abteilungs (Nazi Storm Troopers), to pick all the boys who had unsatisfactory pants height to stand in front of the rest of the school. They were then stripped off their school pants and left to stand there in whatever they had left.
4) Another incident I remember very clearly was a random haircut for the spiky-haired boys. Again the SA was sent out and any male with a spikey hair-do, or any gel on their heads, were first sent to the toilets for a good washing. After that, we were marched to the hall where we had to line up side-by-side. She then marched down the line, with a pair of scissors, and angrily snipped at every boy's hair till she felt satisfied. In a show of protection of their rights, a big majority of them had their heads shaved by the next day.
5) Muslims during chapel - This particular new regulation was definitely uncalled for. Before her rule, Muslims, and if I'm not wrong, Sikhs, were allowed free period during chapel service. This meant that they were free to roam the school grounds, except classrooms of course, but staying in highly visible areas such as the library or canteen was strongly recommended. After she had been instituted, they were all to sit at the back of the hall, each person at individual tables separated from each other, while the rest of us attended chapel.
6) Throwing of furniture down the school building during cleanliness checks. She was unhappy with their standards and proceeded to dispose of their tables and chairs in an absolutely unruly and uncivilised manner, reasoning that they did not deserve their places.
These are just a mere few cases of her actions. If anyone has more to add, please do so! Good luck to you, Wei Jie. In any society, the iron fist will never survive long.[/b]
By th way, ain't she just committed a crime for been a Killer Litter by throwing furniture out?
How did this principal get the post of Principal in the first place? Don't tell it's a kelong situation. If kelonged, must inform CPIB liao!
Me remembered my secondary school principal, Mr. Ang Hwee Hiong. Wah! Me liked him cos he's strict but he's also empathy enough to give a timeframe to have things straightened out. -
I wonder if those people who commented "good for you" or "you deserved it" will complain to MOE if their principal or discipline master cane them over the prescribed limits.
Or they will say, "good for me", "i deserved it"
You guys simply dunno how to separate the 2 case.
The girl did wrong and she was punished. but did the punishment meted out constitute a physical abuse?
Even in prison, if an inmate is sentenced to be caned, a prison officer punched this inmate, the prison officer still have to punished. The courts will not say, since he is going to be caned, he deserved to be punched too. -
You call that threatening behavior ? Wah lao. ... kids nowadays...Originally posted by LazerLordz:You should have made a police report for threatening behavior.Having it on record is alright, since your cheating case was already dealt with and closed in the school's summary discipline records. -
For fishyang's case, 25x on her hand is simply not enough. Girls think that they are daxxx big fish in school and cannot be whack. What the fxxx.Originally posted by veron soh:Finally,i want to say,hitting a girl 25 X on her hand is too much[furthermore got injury],this discipine mistress should be sack,remember Nan Chiau sec school incident,just a light knock with a book on the student's head,the principal got tranfer out,for Fishyang's case,i think give her 1-2 strokes of the cane is good enough.! -
Yeah, yeah, she will learn her lesson when she start to take drugs, shoplift, when her life is finish.. she will learn..Originally posted by LazerLordz:well , you have your opinion. I have mine, and mine tells me that certain ideals have to be upheld, even at the cost of something else.
that's not much of a palatable choice either.but she will learn her lesson another time, another place. -
like that considered cheat... my class cheated thru most of teh tests from sec 1 all the way to polyOriginally posted by fishyang:i scolded that gal who reported me because out of so many people who cheated. she only reported me. whcih meant she did it like for personal joy. i was then interrogated and forced to write down those who had cheated in the test as well. We cheated by askin the previous class what were the questions that were coming out in the common test.
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Talk or report no use wan. Record it on video and post it on the net.
If got audio, record the screaming too.
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Welcome to the real world kid.Originally posted by fishyang:i know i am wrong
The thing is just becos i did one more thing wrong than the rest who cheated (scolding that gal who reported me) and just becos a parent complain den i got hit like so many times more den them.
how to report to moe? do u have the email?
what if i get blacklisted or something??? -
Originally posted by Kr0n:3) There was another morning of hers where she had an urge to do something drastic to some of the guy's pants. There was a supposed problem that many of the guy's pants had been worn too low.
Now I myself have flipped through the school diary or whatever they called it, the one which is blue and included a lousy diagram of their ideal male and female student. It had never stated anything about the level at which our pants was to be worn. As we all know, the pants we had were ridiculously short and made us look like right pansies. What happened next was utterly incredible. She got her prefects, I called them the Sturm-Abteilungs (Nazi Storm Troopers), to pick all the boys who had unsatisfactory pants height to stand in front of the rest of the school. They were then stripped off their school pants and left to stand there in whatever they had left.
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You are the one who simply dunno how to separate the issue here.Originally posted by Ponders:I wonder if those people who commented "good for you" or "you deserved it" will complain to MOE if their principal or discipline master cane them over the prescribed limits.
Or they will say, "good for me", "i deserved it"
You guys simply dunno how to separate the 2 case.
The girl did wrong and she was punished. but did the punishment meted out constitute a physical abuse?
Even in prison, if an inmate is sentenced to be caned, a prison officer punched this inmate, the prison officer still have to punished. The courts will not say, since he is going to be caned, he deserved to be punched too.
Do you know the difference between canning and punching ?
Any by the way, we are talking about a student who commit a wrong in a school, we are talking about a kid who is taking pocket money from her parents, we are talking a kid who refused to take responsibility for her actions.
We are not talking about an adult.
We deal with kids differently as they can't think for themselves.
Just imagine, she think that cheating is fine because everybody is doing it... guess if she stay around geylang, she will think that being paid for sex is fine as "everybody" is doing it.
She is just a toad in a well, wait till she sees the world. -
Yeah, yeah....Originally posted by ~leXX:I believe two wrongs does not make a right. Sure the kid may have made a mistake in cheating but there should be a reformative element in any punishment that the principal wants to mete out to the student. In this case I think injuring the student and leaving her in a cast goes way beyond trying to reform the student and getting her to see the error of her ways. In addition, warning the students not to tell their parents might mean that the school principal knew that her method was wrong (or maybe she can't be bothered to deal with noisy, complaining parents). I think there will be fair-minded and objective people in MOE who will hear both sides' stories out if the student decides to persue the matter.
To the student: I suggest you take up the matter with the appropriate authorities. Lodge a police report and a letter to MOE. If you have eye-witnesses and medical reports and if what you say is completely true then you should have no fear.
Blame the teachers, blame the principles when things goes wrong in school.
Why nobody blame her parents ?
To the student, I suggest you quit school if you can't take it. -
Criminal intimidation. You call that criminal intimidation.Originally posted by LazerLordz:look at it this way.
should the Principal get away with threats?I would call it criminal intimidation, school setting or not.
What the girl did is irrelevant.What is relevant is how the Principal dealt with the girl AFTER the summary discipline.That is the crux of the issue here.
Her intentions do not count, neither does the initial case.
You don't even know what is criminal intimidation. -
You should apologized to your principle for being such a pain in the ass.Originally posted by fishyang:Last year i was involved in mass cheating in my class and i went to scold the girl who reported us. I was sec 2 then. Then that day i also went home and blogged about this incident, lamenting over my rotten luck but i did not mention any names or hints of who i was refering to.
The next day my principal called me to the office and scolded me becasue a parent had complained to her about what i wrote. I had also linked the school hate website in one entry and said that it was wrong of people to write such stuff about the school and i agreed about the lockers being small. Then she accused me for being anti-fairfield
Then she whacked me using a metal ruler 25 times in front of two classes until my hand skin tear and bled. It was also the mid year exams period and i could not write properly. the swollening of my hands also affected my joints. The pain did not fade for two months until august when the wrist was sort of disconnected from the joint asnd i had to wear a cast. (my vb playing made it worse)
My princiapal also whacked a few other students but their injuries were not as serious as mine. She told us taht she did not want to hear any parents complain. Isnt it a form of threatening????
Are female students allowed to be caned in school publicly???
what should i do about this? -
Criminal get worst then you.Originally posted by fishyang:no physical evidence but i have a lot of witness!!! can? and i have doctor letter that my hand got problem and its my right hand.
I am not talking abt equal rights and stuff here. the main focus is whether its allowed. Even jail offenders are not hit in public, am i worse then a criminal????
Want to know more ? Go commit some crime in public and see whether they will let you off by just canning 25x on your palm in public. -
Dino888, shut the fu(k up if you can't comment anything constructive other than your childish know-it-all remarks.
Fishyang, I sympathise with you. I think you should report the case to MOE. Clearly, the principal hit you out of political reasons and personal rage: mainly to use you as an example against students who may write anything that tarnishes the school's image, or the principal's own reputation. The principal may be allowed to carry out punishment, not violence. Tearing your skin and making you bleed is beyond his/her authority. -
I so agree.Originally posted by dork3d:Cruxes of the issue:
Punishment over the mistake made over cheating is justified and you admitted it's your mistake in doing so.
Primary punishment with a steel ruler seems a bit too much with 25 times, depending with the amount of strength used in carrying out the punishment, resulting in skin tear and bleeding. There should be a maximum punishment for such an offence.
According to MOE's guidelines, should the punished student's area of impact be resulted in open wound (in this case is already an open wound but yet the principal carried on), the punishment would be suspended or postponed.
The principal had also warned you not to inform your parents or complain. You need to ascertain whether the tone the principal speaked is in a threatening tone (e.g. loud and suggestive). If it's as such, on reasonable grounds with witnesses' statements, you should report such instances to MOE, Academics Division.
Honestly speaking, the principal didn't carry out a fair investigation on the complaining parent and if you should be found to be the one, your parents should be informed and an appointment should be arranged so it's more transparent. Should you be required for punishment, counselling should be the first option rather than any form of primary punishment be meted out. In your case, the principal is in an outright abuse of powers as stated in your record.
By the way, is there any form of links between the parent and the school like the parent is a Honourary member of the school's Parent Committee, School's Board of Members or anything? If so, it could be clearly an act of pacification for the parent. -
A complaint to MOE alone will not be enough. What the civil service is most worried about is adverse publicity. As long as you are not afraid of publicity yourself and if you want to push this as far as you can, then copy your letter to various newspaper (particularly tabloids like Today), your MP and make an official police report. Give a copy of the police report to the press as well..
As far as I understand, corporal punishment of female students is NOT allowed. -
Oldbreadstinks: Those peopleÂ’s whose names I were made to write down were my friends! How can you come to such a conclusion when you donÂ’t even know me personally!! If I didnÂ’t say their names, they will get into worse trouble if found out and some of them went to admit it themselves too. I am angry becos what that gal(my monitor) did was unfair.
Li Ka Shing: “On the other hand, if you are really 'scarred', mentally, then it might be worth it to report her, so as to make you heal better, to make you come at peace with yourself.” Yes I agree this line. I wanted to report long ago. I am doing this now because I did not want the complaining last year to affect my streaming results.
I am not a nasty person. I donÂ’t backstab people neither am I a hypocrite. I am extremely frank. And I was very very frank in all the reflections my principal made me write. ThatÂ’s why I have to keep doing it over and over again. Till the final reflection whereby I could not take it any more becos my hand really hurt from all the writing. ThatÂ’s why I just made up some stuff. I know I am wrong in the cheating but I am not wrong in the blogging thing becos she clearly misinterpreted my lines and DID NOT allow me to explain myself. If everyone interprets the same thing from a single text den surely lit isnÂ’t a subject to be discussed at all. I donÂ’t like the idea of students being oppressed by principal. I will to stand up for what is right. MORAL COURAGE. That is one of my sch values. And beating students like this is definitely wrong!
I am willing to accept punishment for my breaking of sch rule by cheating but why do I have to be whacked so many times and she didnÂ’t even stop when I was bleeding lor. She just continued. And shes from badminton last time so she hit me that time is the exact same action as some one like hitting the shuttle cock just that she is aiming downwards,
there are no scars on my hand now.
If you are a parent would you like taht to happen to your kid?
My hand so so swollen taht i had problems changing clothes, opening the shampoo cover when i was bathing and even brushing my teeth!!!!!