anyone irritated by christians here?
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not only that, but they say if u don accpet jesus as ur savior that ur going to hell? hahahahahahahahaha. i believe that there is more than one way to get into heaven, and going through a third party is not one of them.Originally posted by malicious_:how about when they declare theirs in the one true faith,thereby indirectly rejecting all othere religions? -
let me tell u what happened to me. i am a muslim. one dy i was shopping, and i was waiting for my ride to pick me up. this guy walked up tp me and asked me what religion i was. i told him i was a muslim. and he said.
oh no, thats a terrible religion. u need to get out while u can. ur gonna go to hell if u don accept jesus.
i told him.
listen, please don bother me about such things, i hv my own religion. don try to convert me.
that in my opinion was extremely annoying to me. -
i actually hv an article explaining the tactics of most christian missionaries. pls do not bash me for posting this article. its juz to inform u how some missionaries go about converting ppl.
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i might also add that this article is from a muslims point of view. im not saying tht all christian missionaries r bad though.
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A Guide to Missionary Tactics
Source:
www.islaam.com
HIDDEN AGENDA
Some missionaries attempt to develop a rapport with their subject without divulging their own religious affiliation or intention. As an example to make
making them seem less "Christian" missionaries are coached by their superiors to avoid using words such as "Christ" or "savior" or "baptize".
If you are not sure about the religious identity of the stranger who begins talking to you about religion, ask him directly about his beliefs and agenda.
Be suspicious of an indirect answer. Remember these people aren't interested in dialogue or trying to improve Anglo-Muslim links but are often in SECURE
PAID EMPLOYMENT to Sell Christianity.
CREATING DOUBT
When talking to a Muslim about religion, a missionary may attempt to elicit as many "I don't know" responses as possible, in order to establish his superiority
in matters of religion. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated!
Remember, the missionary has studied Islamic beliefs for the sole purpose to sell Christianity to Muslims. There heart are sealed and they are no longer
interested in truth. Keep in mind that he is not speaking to you in order to exchange ideas, but rather to create as much doubt in your mind and lead you
away from your faith. If you want to learn more about the Quran, do so from someone who doesn't have hidden motives. Therefore, feel free to simply end
the conversation and walk away.
Remember that many of these questions and associations they are trying to sell have been debunked many times by more learned Muslims. If they were interested
in dialogue the would be speaking to respected elders and community leaders exploring common ground improving understanding and faith in the community,
but all one sees are the often the same question again to unsuspecting victims. Ask yourself what do they hope to gain ?
However, some of you may want to listen to their arguments and then learn the Muslim response, in order to be better prepared for future encounters. One
must also remember that many missionaries intentionally go into Muslim areas in Britain so they train themselves and create the most seductive "Sales Pitch"
they can manage. Once they have finished there training in salesmanship they will target unsuspecting Muslims (the lonely, vulnerable and weak) lacking
in knowledge.
The following pointers should give you a basic idea of what to look for.
DECEPTION
The missionary may tell you that he (or a Christian friend or acquaintance) was once an Muslim, or that he had a solid Muslim education, a traditional Muslim
family life, etc. This is almost always a lie, so don't let him fool you. The hidden message that he is attempting to convey is that he came to accept
Christianity after knowing and overcoming all of the Muslim objections (Jesus being son of god, Bible being corrupted by man etc.), and therefore, why
should you bother to check it out?
He may drop certain Islamic phrases or talk about the details of his "traditional" Muslim upbringing, in order to lend more credence to his story. In fact,
his "memory" is often the result of careful coaching.
The missionary might tell you that he knows the Islamic objections to his arguments, and will then proceed to show how such objectives are ill-founded.
Don't expect to hear the real Islamic response from such a source.
GOOD, BAD OR UGLY
Don't be taken in by the "good cop - bad cop" routine. This routine involves a "bad cop" who threatens the subject, and a "good cop" who protects him from
the "bad cop". The subject is so grateful to the "good cop", and so worried about losing the good-will of his protector, that he invariably shows his appreciation
by telling the "good cop" what he wants to hear. In similar fashion, the "good" Christian talks about how much he loves and respects Muslims, while denouncing
the "bad" Christians who hate and have persecuted Muslims. The naive and ones lacking in knowledge of Christian history and bigotry will feel grateful
to the "good cop", and may automatically judge him to be a friend and reliable ally. Watch out for hidden motives behind such "friendship".
WHO BELIEVES IN THE SON OF GOD?
At the outset, the missionary will talk about his belief that Jesus is the messiah. Many Muslims don't find out until later, often after they have joined
a Christian friendship group, that their fundamental belief is that Jesus is god. Any talk about "the messiah" or "son of god" is merely a cover for that
belief, basic to Christianity . However, since such a concept is repugnant in Islam, this most basic belief of Christianity is glossed over as much as
possible when missionaries talk to Muslims.
PROOF or SPOOF?
Don't be impressed by the claim that Christians have 50, or 100, or 300 "proofs" that they are correct in their claims about Jesus. As proof after proof
is shown to be meaningless, the missionary will hide behind his numbers, as if to say: "Well, we have so many more proofs, what's the difference if you
can disprove some of them". He will attempt to "split the difference" with you: "Well, even if half our proofs prove nothing, we still have another 25
or 50, or 150". Remember, all of their proofs can be shown to be untenable. Keep in mind that a faulty point is not worth 50% of a good point, or 25%,
or 10%. It is worthless. The simple mathematics are: 50 x 0 = 0, 100 x 0 = 0, 300 x 0 = 0.
CIRCULAR REASONING
Very often, the reasoning used by Christian missionaries is circular. That is, the "proof" only points to something is if you believe it in the first place,
and therefore is no proof at all.
MISTRANSLATION
Be aware of the problem of mistranslating. A person who is not familiar with Arabic can be lead to accept a mistranslating which puts a Christian "twist"
on a verse that never had such a meaning in the original. If you can't check it out yourself, talk to a reliable person who can. Remember, it is no coincidence
that the Muslims of past generations, who were much better versed in the Arabic, never had any serious problems refuting Christian missionary arguments.
In addition beware of Christian Translations of the Quran, many date from sixteenth to the eighteenth century with the sole intention of to discredit Islam.
Please keep in mind ANY translation (interpretation) of the Quran will most definitely contain errors In its natural language (Arabic), the Quran is the
direct Word of Allah (God) to mankind through the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). Any translation of the Quran no longer retains that 'official'
and perfect status, however it can be tremendously helpful to beginning students wanting to learn more about Islam. -
funny right
those people claim Jesus was crucified was actually not Jesus himself.......wanna know more? read the Quran.
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er....missionarys dont operate in singapore...missions are for unpenetrated regions...like some remote part of china,africa or 1 of the 100 of thousands of islands in indon....so this doesnt apply to us...and then...if u already have an opinion bout my religion...of cos what i say cant really affect you and would cause u to write stuff like these based on ur opinion and that of those hu share ur opininon...Originally posted by xiao_mei2005:A Guide to Missionary Tactics
Source:
www.islaam.com
HIDDEN AGENDA
Some missionaries attempt to develop a rapport with their subject without divulging their own religious affiliation or intention. As an example to make
making them seem less "Christian" missionaries are coached by their superiors to avoid using words such as "Christ" or "savior" or "baptize".
If you are not sure about the religious identity of the stranger who begins talking to you about religion, ask him directly about his beliefs and agenda.
Be suspicious of an indirect answer. Remember these people aren't interested in dialogue or trying to improve Anglo-Muslim links but are often in SECURE
PAID EMPLOYMENT to Sell Christianity.
CREATING DOUBT
When talking to a Muslim about religion, a missionary may attempt to elicit as many "I don't know" responses as possible, in order to establish his superiority
in matters of religion. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated!
Remember, the missionary has studied Islamic beliefs for the sole purpose to sell Christianity to Muslims. There heart are sealed and they are no longer
interested in truth. Keep in mind that he is not speaking to you in order to exchange ideas, but rather to create as much doubt in your mind and lead you
away from your faith. If you want to learn more about the Quran, do so from someone who doesn't have hidden motives. Therefore, feel free to simply end
the conversation and walk away.
Remember that many of these questions and associations they are trying to sell have been debunked many times by more learned Muslims. If they were interested
in dialogue the would be speaking to respected elders and community leaders exploring common ground improving understanding and faith in the community,
but all one sees are the often the same question again to unsuspecting victims. Ask yourself what do they hope to gain ?
However, some of you may want to listen to their arguments and then learn the Muslim response, in order to be better prepared for future encounters. One
must also remember that many missionaries intentionally go into Muslim areas in Britain so they train themselves and create the most seductive "Sales Pitch"
they can manage. Once they have finished there training in salesmanship they will target unsuspecting Muslims (the lonely, vulnerable and weak) lacking
in knowledge.
The following pointers should give you a basic idea of what to look for.
DECEPTION
The missionary may tell you that he (or a Christian friend or acquaintance) was once an Muslim, or that he had a solid Muslim education, a traditional Muslim
family life, etc. This is almost always a lie, so don't let him fool you. The hidden message that he is attempting to convey is that he came to accept
Christianity after knowing and overcoming all of the Muslim objections (Jesus being son of god, Bible being corrupted by man etc.), and therefore, why
should you bother to check it out?
He may drop certain Islamic phrases or talk about the details of his "traditional" Muslim upbringing, in order to lend more credence to his story. In fact,
his "memory" is often the result of careful coaching.
The missionary might tell you that he knows the Islamic objections to his arguments, and will then proceed to show how such objectives are ill-founded.
Don't expect to hear the real Islamic response from such a source.
GOOD, BAD OR UGLY
Don't be taken in by the "good cop - bad cop" routine. This routine involves a "bad cop" who threatens the subject, and a "good cop" who protects him from
the "bad cop". The subject is so grateful to the "good cop", and so worried about losing the good-will of his protector, that he invariably shows his appreciation
by telling the "good cop" what he wants to hear. In similar fashion, the "good" Christian talks about how much he loves and respects Muslims, while denouncing
the "bad" Christians who hate and have persecuted Muslims. The naive and ones lacking in knowledge of Christian history and bigotry will feel grateful
to the "good cop", and may automatically judge him to be a friend and reliable ally. Watch out for hidden motives behind such "friendship".
WHO BELIEVES IN THE SON OF GOD?
At the outset, the missionary will talk about his belief that Jesus is the messiah. Many Muslims don't find out until later, often after they have joined
a Christian friendship group, that their fundamental belief is that Jesus is god. Any talk about "the messiah" or "son of god" is merely a cover for that
belief, basic to Christianity . However, since such a concept is repugnant in Islam, this most basic belief of Christianity is glossed over as much as
possible when missionaries talk to Muslims.
PROOF or SPOOF?
Don't be impressed by the claim that Christians have 50, or 100, or 300 "proofs" that they are correct in their claims about Jesus. As proof after proof
is shown to be meaningless, the missionary will hide behind his numbers, as if to say: "Well, we have so many more proofs, what's the difference if you
can disprove some of them". He will attempt to "split the difference" with you: "Well, even if half our proofs prove nothing, we still have another 25
or 50, or 150". Remember, all of their proofs can be shown to be untenable. Keep in mind that a faulty point is not worth 50% of a good point, or 25%,
or 10%. It is worthless. The simple mathematics are: 50 x 0 = 0, 100 x 0 = 0, 300 x 0 = 0.
CIRCULAR REASONING
Very often, the reasoning used by Christian missionaries is circular. That is, the "proof" only points to something is if you believe it in the first place,
and therefore is no proof at all.
MISTRANSLATION
Be aware of the problem of mistranslating. A person who is not familiar with Arabic can be lead to accept a mistranslating which puts a Christian "twist"
on a verse that never had such a meaning in the original. If you can't check it out yourself, talk to a reliable person who can. Remember, it is no coincidence
that the Muslims of past generations, who were much better versed in the Arabic, never had any serious problems refuting Christian missionary arguments.
In addition beware of Christian Translations of the Quran, many date from sixteenth to the eighteenth century with the sole intention of to discredit Islam.
Please keep in mind ANY translation (interpretation) of the Quran will most definitely contain errors In its natural language (Arabic), the Quran is the
direct Word of Allah (God) to mankind through the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). Any translation of the Quran no longer retains that 'official'
and perfect status, however it can be tremendously helpful to beginning students wanting to learn more about Islam.
Then again...if everyone agrees that black = white...Eyes of the law will also see it as black is white....like how everyone used Fcuk till it started appearing in dicts and how our english language is continuing to evolve and how some criminals can get away by hiring the best lawyers who have extreme persuation skills... -
I am irritated by people who don't appreciate Fann.
Their eyes R pasted with stamps.
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ur a muslim too?Originally posted by Gent-X:funny right
those people claim Jesus was crucified was actually not Jesus himself.......wanna know more? read the Quran. 
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hey hey hey. i juz put this up for informational purposes only. again, do not bash me for it. and it juz so happens that the love of my life is a christian. he and i do not argue about the matter.
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Missonary work should hardly be considered as a "sales pitch". And it is wrong for any person, christian or non-christain to view missionary work as a sales pitch.Originally posted by xiao_mei2005:A Guide to Missionary Tactics
Source:
www.islaam.com
The article is well-written and even though it is not without basis, the overall attitude ofthe article is rather negative in nature not just towards missionary work but towards christianity as well.
As someone did mention that missionary work happens more in unpenetrated areas so I'm guessing this article originated somewhere in the middle east where anti-christian views tend to be more extreme in nature. But let's take it with a pinch of salt, I'm no saint myself.
The article seems to assume a stance that all christians are evil and that they are nothing but "salesman" trying to con you. Just as I feel christians should show more respect for people with other faiths, I disagree with how all christians as having evil intentions when talking to you and that all christians use swindler tactics to trick people into their faith.
To be specific about one thing, I do not know about the writer's encounters, but basically all churches I know off (the orthodox ones at least) proudly declare Jesus as the son of God and this is never glossed over. In fact, it's supposed to be one of the first things Christians mention when reaching out to non-Christians.
The writer clearly shows how cynical he is about the Christian faith, and the amount of depth and organisation in his article goes to show how much thought he has put into going up against Christains and missionaries. His intentions and malice scare me to be honest.
I can't honestly say that the many bad examples of missionaries mentioned don't occur, but I can confidentaly say most of them don't occur. And to be honest, most of the many "sales tactics" he describes that missionaries do sound pretty absurb and extreme to me. You can ask any christian here in Singapore (the orthodox ones), I believe you'll get a similar response.
If you're a christian you've read the above, then beware not to piss people off in the same manner.
If you're a non-christian, then I hope you won't assume that all Christians are money swindling salesmen who use conmen tactics. Not all muslims are members of Al Qaeda right? -
paging for honeybunzie, paging for honeybunzieOriginally posted by shuiling:I am irritated by people who don't appreciate Fann.
Their eyes R pasted with stamps. -
Just to add, a lot of what he says are rather subjective. Like how the christians mention 100 proofs of which half are untrue or something like that. It seems like a pretty sweeping statememt as far as I see. And he is telling the reader to dismiss any possible fact that the missionary presents, even before verifying it. Sounds almost like assume guilty unless proven innocent. In any case, a missionary who keeps coming up with untrue examples or non-existant evidence to support his claims hardly sounds like a real missionary.
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ah? u looking for me?Originally posted by laurence82:paging for honeybunzie, paging for honeybunzie -
wait, i forgot, u fann wong or zoe tay's fan?Originally posted by Honeybunz:ah? u looking for me? -
Zoe's fan. why leh?Originally posted by laurence82:wait, i forgot, u fann wong or zoe tay's fan? -
Hmm very sensitive.. Science is the study of god's creations. Whose study? Humans. There is no perfect human in the world. Hence, we can never trust fully 100% on some of the studies of Man, including science. The theories discovered today, may all of a sudden be flawed in 10 years, 20 years, 100 years time. We studied that the smallest particle was atom. Then the theory changed. And changed, and changed. I don't know what is the smallest particle identified now. But who knows, it might be changed in future. That is science for you. It will never unlock the secret of life. People used to say it is impossible to fly last time. Now science has make it even possible to travel to outer space. So now I say it will never unlock the secret of life, in future it will be unlock. But knowing science and its flaws, we do not know whether what is thought to be unlock is still unlocked or not. It is an eternal cycle. Think about it. Even if science one day eventually manage to discover the very very smallest particle that makes up eveything(maybe an atom of an atom), "who" created it?Originally posted by HENG@:thats the problem. Listened, not convinced, and they just keep coming back with the same weak arguments to try to convince u. Evidence? someone here said he believes in the evidence provided by God. What evidence is there other than a book? These people don't seem to realise that science is part of God's creation too. U can't believe in God and yet distrust his creation. How ironic. How do u expect hypocrites like that to convert anyone other than the dumb?
It is not just "a book". To attend to our pathetic lowly human brains, it came in the form of "a book". The "book" could have been made up by Man. Who knows right? To answer the question, is almost of the same degree to answer the question of Existence. And the attempt to answer the question, leads to each individual finding the religion that mostly answer their queries. To each his own. Mankind do not like to be wronged. That is why religion becomes a sensitive issue. -
no lar, the guy i quoted say people who dont like fann wong is bak jiu tak stampOriginally posted by Honeybunz:Zoe's fan. why leh? -
im more irritated by bollyclones.
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Oh... I dun like Fann btw. Besides, her beloved fan with multiple nicknames such as kaio, pearlcity, shuiling, darrayo, ihatezoetay has been harassing me all over the place. haha. All the more I can't stand Fann.Originally posted by laurence82:no lar, the guy i quoted say people who dont like fann wong is bak jiu tak stamp -
are u a malay? trying to convert a malay is illegal in sg. its a crime.Originally posted by xiao_mei2005:let me tell u what happened to me. i am a muslim. one dy i was shopping, and i was waiting for my ride to pick me up. this guy walked up tp me and asked me what religion i was. i told him i was a muslim. and he said.
oh no, thats a terrible religion. u need to get out while u can. ur gonna go to hell if u don accept jesus.
i told him.
listen, please don bother me about such things, i hv my own religion. don try to convert me.
that in my opinion was extremely annoying to me.
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oh, i rem pearlcity....but i dont know the restOriginally posted by Honeybunz:Oh... I dun like Fann btw. Besides, her beloved fan with multiple nicknames such as kaio, pearlcity, shuiling, darrayo, ihatezoetay has been harassing me all over the place. haha. All the more I can't stand Fann.
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Originally posted by dinky1409:
How come I never hear Muslims condemning the terrorists in the nespapers on their own accord? I see them protesting like crazy over the cartoons? What is more important here if you say"Taking away one's life is a very big sin" in islam? Cartoons or mass murder?
Be careful of what you say bro.. (Anyway Muslim is not a religion, Islam is the religion) Islam, I repeat again is [b]NOT, an aggressive religion. Read my previous posts on page 5 man.. It is the people who makes the religion look bad so please do not stereotype. Islam in facts encourages all Muslims to live peacefully and in harmony with their "neighbours" regardless of their religion. In history of Islam, the wars being fought was to DEFEND. Taking away one's life is a very big sin, but once upon a time the prophet was given a message from god, so as to defend yourselves so that Islam will not be wiped away from the face of this earth. And so they fought for their own survival. If you realise, that is happening everywhere in nature.
What is happening now is a misconception. These so called Muslims had their minds skewed so extremely, that "defend" has become a new meaning for them. Hence the mindless terrorism in the name of Islam. So do not say Islam is an aggressive religion. That is a baseless remark.[/b] -
BTW I never knew Muslims come to the forums. I debate the Buddhists and Christians like hell without much fear of getting arrested but I wonder what will happen when I debate the Muslims.
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Is it? Which Act?Originally posted by Ito_^:are u a malay? trying to convert a malay is illegal in sg. its a crime.