if u want me to believe in god......
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You try going to the cemetry and camp overnight, i wonder you will pray for god's help or man's help...
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You are talking about utopia?
Utopia can never exist in a fallen world.
Religion aside, if u read history u should know that people are dying becoz of war. Yes, man are smart, but they dun learn from mistakes.Originally posted by january:ok i come up with better explanation......
if god exist , then why are there so many sufferings since the ancient history.
spanish flu kills tens or hundred of millions worldwide.
war kills tens or hundreds of millions worldwide.
children suffer in poverty and hunger.
crimes committed by gangster and deliquents
natural disasters killing people
religious wars...
United nations is created by ....Man
Red cross is created by .... Man
bill and Melinda Foundation .... Man
warren buffet foundation(2nd largest) ..... by Man
common rebuke by god believers:
God has a plan for us and there is a reason for everything that has happened
God is a meme.......... if u dunno what meme is.. let me teach you a new thing...... it is anything that can spread in human....
examples are song, a hand action, joke, beliefs and virus........
you see people going to temples and churchs, but seriously is praying going to produce much real workdone to improve the world.
accidental deaths, disease will not go away because u pray.
safety will not befall onto you family by just praying.
in order to improve safety of your life, your family one, and prevent accident.
you have to take precaution by learning.
example....
learn CPR skill
student who learn about how to spot tsunami saved thousands of lives on beach
fireman learn how to put out fire so that they can saves lives
doctors learn how to perform surgeries so that they can successful saves lives
engineers come up wtih safety standards in building
weather scientist learn how to use computer weather software to better predict weather and gives important information to people
learn how to communicate better with parents or siblings so that both can help one another better in lives
attend sessions held by professionals to learn how to solve problems in relationship
learning..... real effort put in by Man then will produce imrpovements.
praying (no real workdone) does help much
come on guys...... u all are smart enough to know all these.... -
U have not seen how much sand drop from my ceiling when HDB send pple to reinforce the structure in my old flat......my dad moved house becoz he scared the flat collapsed.Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:u used the word "faith" incorrectly. in your example, we have blind faith in the buildings we are in.
Mistake 1: Faith is believing in something that does not exist or cannot be proven to exist. Hence, faith is, by its very nature, blind. I am guessing you used the word "blind" in front of "blind faith" just to add to your word count or to merely show off your vocab? God knows.
Mistake 2: Buildings in Singapore are built according to the strict standards set down by the Housing Development Board (HDB). These standards to ensure safety are internationally accepted and even more fiercely enforced by the Government after the unfortunate Nicole Highway incident in Singapore. Hence, believing a HDB flat will not collapse is not "blind faith". This is because the work put into the development of Sinagpore buildings are evident. Thus, faith should not be used to describe one's belief in the safety of HDB flats. Instead, the word "trust" should be used. -
yea...there are cracks in my wall too....
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exactly, we see that we use faith in many places.
I think u misunderstood science with blind faith. I believe in the structure analysis made by men and the system made by them. HDB flats have not failed catastrophically till now and as such I do not belive they will fail me. The system of punishment for failed structure in singapore is quite strict and as such, I believe tat the house will collapse unless I see tell tale signs like cracks etc. They made a few thousand flats, supply for so many years for so many people. rely on well established science and foundation and as such it is not "blind faith". If u do not believe it can collapse, u can do strength test or even do an analysis of strength yourself "if u know"
Then why is it religion that we deliberately avoid using faith?
For your case of religion, it is blind faith because there is never a sign tat verify it is true. All the while there is no concrete evidence tat it is true and everything rely nothing but hearsay. -
haha this one is bo pian. upgrading sure got a lot of dust one.Originally posted by laoda99:U have not seen how much sand drop from my ceiling when HDB send pple to reinforce the structure in my old flat......my dad moved house becoz he scared the flat collapsed. -
i just thought of something.
infectious diseases are generally on the rise. if god exists, wouldn't he (or she) be more or less behind it? maybe he realised that the human race is a plague threatening to spread from our little planet to infect his universe and that humans must be put in place. He realised AIDS is not really very successful in wiping out humans. He muscles in with a tirade of infectious diseases to cleanse his world of polluting mammals called humans. -
Not upgrading. Last time my flat pple come to repair. Think too much sand.Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:haha this one is bo pian. upgrading sure got a lot of dust one. -
you said it yourself.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I think u misunderstood science with blind faith. I believe in the structure analysis made by men and the system made by them. HDB flats have not failed catastrophically till now and as such I do not belive they will fail me. The system of punishment for failed structure in singapore is quite strict and as such, I believe tat the house will collapse unless I see tell tale signs like cracks etc. They made a few thousand flats, supply for so many years for so many people. rely on well established science and foundation and as such it is not "blind faith". If u do not believe it can collapse, u can do strength test or even do an analysis of strength yourself "if u know"
For your case of religion, it is blind faith because there is never a sign tat verify it is true. All the while there is no concrete evidence tat it is true and everything rely nothing but hearsay.
i believe....
*korean song plays
I believe in the structure analysis made by men and the system made by them.
Thus, you have faith in those men.
You dont go and test the building's stability and achieve a result(evidence) to determine whether it is stable or not. You simply use faith
There are tons of examples of 'blind faith' used everywhere in life. Are you going to find a way to oppose all of them?? Or are you going to si3 bu4 cheng2 ren4??
Also, i can already foresee what the discussion will end with: a disagreement of the definition of evidence
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i am not saying science is blind faith.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I think u misunderstood science with blind faith. -
and how do you know if heaven is better or worse?Originally posted by mayday80:usually God will give you a glimpse of Hell rather than Heaven. Then you decide where you want to head!
even if hell is shown to be worse than your worst nightmares, heaven might be even worse........
anyway thread starter also childish, even if those things happen also cannot be taken as evidence cos it might just be hallucinations, illusions, mental persuasion etc.
in the end there is no real evidence for or against and its just belief. -
good well said.Originally posted by hisoka:and how do you know if heaven is better or worse?
anyway thread starter also childish, even if those things happen also cannot be taken as evidence cos it might just be hallucinations, illusions, mental persuasion etc.
in the end there is no real evidence for or against and its just belief.
cos any evidence can be said as illusion. No one can prove illusion. Thus, in the end, it is faith. -
I believe in the structure analysis made by men and the system made by them.
But u have a venue of proving if u do not believe.
You dont go and test the building's stability and achieve a result(evidence) to determine whether it is stable or not. You simply use faith
There is material and physical reason for your belief in this case. No supernatural element is involved in it and it is totally believable.
Can u do tat for your religion
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Bo bian....becoz no $$$.....must die die stay in HDB flat.....Originally posted by stupidissmart:But u have a venue of proving if u do not believe.
You dont go and test the building's stability and achieve a result(evidence) to determine whether it is stable or not. You simply use faith
There is material and physical reason for your belief in this case. No supernatural element is involved in it and it is totally believable.
Can u do tat for your religion -
cos any evidence can be said as illusion. No one can prove illusion. Thus, in the end, it is faith
Why is evidence "illusion" ? If u believe in illusions, then u have a million and one people, and their claims to believe. -
Nope.Originally posted by stupidissmart:But u have a venue of proving if u do not believe.
You dont go and test the building's stability and achieve a result(evidence) to determine whether it is stable or not. You simply use faith
There is material and physical reason for your belief in this case. No supernatural element is involved in it and it is totally believable.
Can u do tat for your religion
Supernatural is unbelieveable because it is unfamiliar to humans. there is no explaination for it, unlike some sciences. Thus, some people say that it is wrong.
Is it wrong? OR are we humans too stupid and lack the intelligence to understand and give a explaination to it? (we can give an explaination to why apple drops to the ground.)
If it is the second, then there is reason to believe in creationsim. Because we simply lack thee intelligence to think God creating men as logical. Another way of saying it, if we have the intelligence, God creating men wouldnt be considered supernatural.
On the other hand. If God is omnipotent, it is logical to say that he can create humans. The problem therefore, lies on omnipotency. It is the thing that is unfamiliar to humans, therefore, we group it together with creationsim, together with christianity, and say in general, that it is supernatural, while ther unfamiliar thing is only omnipotency(and others stuffs....)
///Just a thought///..... -
Lets say i really show you heaven, you can say it is all illusion.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why is evidence "illusion" ? If u believe in illusions, then u have a million and one people, and their claims to believe.
If jesus really comes, you may say, aiya, he is just another magician...
Which is why i say there is no true evidence...in the end, evidence cant prove anything. part of the presuppositions in science is that none of what we see is illusion... -
Originally posted by davidche:
does god have nothing to do? why he create man? maybe he create people like tammy for entertainment. i wish i was god...
Nope.
Supernatural is unbelieveable because it is unfamiliar to humans. [b]there is no explaination for it, unlike some sciences. Thus, some people say that it is wrong.
Is it wrong? OR are we humans too stupid and lack the intelligence to understand and give a explaination to it? (we can give an explaination to why apple drops to the ground.)
If it is the second, then there is reason to believe in creationsim. Because we simply lack thee intelligence to think God creating men as logical. Another way of saying it, if we have the intelligence, God creating men wouldnt be considered supernatural.
On the other hand. If God is omnipotent, it is logical to say that he can create humans. The problem therefore, lies on omnipotency. It is the thing that is unfamiliar to humans, therefore, we group it together with creationsim, together with christianity, and say in general, that it is supernatural, while ther unfamiliar thing is only omnipotency(and others stuffs....)
///Just a thought///.....[/b] -
buildings are erected based on the laws of physics. believing in the building u are in is believing in the science behind the engineering. whereas religion has nothing concrete to prove that god exists. religious people usually just used the mere existance of a bible to prove that there is a higher power. i know how to end this argument once and for all. prove that god exists based a bedrock of science. only then we atheists will change our stand. but until then god does not exist. becos seeing is believing.Originally posted by davidche:you said it yourself.
i believe....
*korean song plays
I believe in the structure analysis made by men and the system made by them.
Thus, you have faith in those men.
You dont go and test the building's stability and achieve a result(evidence) to determine whether it is stable or not. You simply use faith
There are tons of examples of 'blind faith' used everywhere in life. Are you going to find a way to oppose all of them?? Or are you going to si3 bu4 cheng2 ren4??
Also, i can already foresee what the discussion will end with: a disagreement of the definition of evidence -
Actually it is really up to u whether u believe in god(s) or not. Nobody will gain anything from atheists changing their stand. Furthermore, some people never see already believed liao.Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:buildings are erected based on the laws of physics. believing in the building u are in is believing in the science behind the engineering. whereas religion has nothing concrete to prove that god exists. religious people usually just used the mere existance of a bible to prove that there is a higher power. i know how to end this argument once and for all. prove that god exists based a bedrock of science. only then we atheists will change our stand. but until then god does not exist. becos seeing is believing.
P.S. If anyone can "prove" that god(s) exist, mebbe that "god(s)" is not real becoz that person can actually showcase "god(s)". -
never see also can believe = delusion??Originally posted by laoda99:Actually it is really up to u whether u believe in god(s) or not. Nobody will gain anything from atheists changing their stand. Furthermore, some people never see already believed liao.
P.S. If anyone can "prove" that god(s) exist, mebbe that "god(s)" is not real becoz that person can actually showcase "god(s)".
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion. -
Dun say things too soon.Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:never see also can believe = delusion??
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.
Mebbe when u get older u may "suffer" from religion, u never know. -
haha tell u secret. i occassionally pray to god to let me win 4D.Originally posted by laoda99:Dun say things too soon.
Mebbe when u get older u may "suffer" from religion, u never know. -
tell me, what law in science is it when a person mixes diluted concrete and uses it as building material??Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:buildings are erected based on the laws of physics. believing in the building u are in is believing in the science behind the engineering. whereas religion has nothing concrete to prove that god exists. religious people usually just used the mere existance of a bible to prove that there is a higher power. i know how to end this argument once and for all. prove that god exists based a bedrock of science. only then we atheists will change our stand. but until then god does not exist. becos seeing is believing.
SIS wins you in this. He has pointed out a critical point.
On the other hand, you have only proven your stupidity and lack of thoughts when you say 'prove God'
Firstly you have to specify and conclude the definition of evidence.
Then, you ought to think about whether a created being(if not assume) has enough knowledge to prove the creator. Or do you know as much as the creator.
After i have finished this chain of thoughts, i found out how small and limited i am. Hope you will experience the same thing.
Cheers and may God grant you wisdom
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What if all you see is illusion?Originally posted by CyNdI)4.eVa:buildings are erected based on the laws of physics. believing in the building u are in is believing in the science behind the engineering. whereas religion has nothing concrete to prove that god exists. religious people usually just used the mere existance of a bible to prove that there is a higher power. i know how to end this argument once and for all. prove that god exists based a bedrock of science. only then we atheists will change our stand. but until then god does not exist. becos seeing is believing.