Singapore to hang Nigerian trafficker, rejects new appeal.
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I did not work for them but I spoken to some members in AI before. Let's put it this way - the impression I have of them -> They are a waste of donations. There are better avenues of justice than AI . There are more worthwhile organisations than AI.Originally posted by circleofwinter:You think of them of them as crazy yappers and hardly see them take into any account of how the criminal affected the victims of criminal activity but let me
ask you this question i repeated earlier: how well do you really know AI? have you ever worked with them before? do you come into conclusions that they just a bunch . of lawyers/policy advocates/journalists sitting on the ivory tower making moral judgements and wasting unnecessary resources just simply because you disagree with some of what they said? how about you view them with a fair and unbiased attitude before jumping into conclusions?
AI supported troops into Iraq instead of calling for a war to end. Children and people are getting blown up everyday ....that war was for oil not for human rights but they went blindly with the americans leading them on. AI DID NOT EVEN CONDEMN US INVASION OF IRAQ
They call for an end to Guantanamo bay but did not do anything about Saddam Hussein's trial which was a big circus. They ONLY MADE ALOT of NOISE AFTER HE was condemned to THE HANGING. Where was their regular big headlines stuff? Nada...it was more of a whisper : oh yes we condemn hanging because we uphold human rights yada yada blah. END OF STORY
Your great AI stood by and watch palestinian blood spilt by the israeli government . Isn't ethnic cleansing against the human rights - why aren't they protesting against the occupation of Palestine and the killing of children and women ? Wait....one small little statement again :oh yes we should be allowed into palestine . END OF STORY. Then when the palestinians retaliated - they get crowned with CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. When an itamar settler killed a palestinian woman in cold blood and the israelis turn the other way....NO ISSUE OF STATEMENT from AI.
The empty vessel seems to make alot of noise when it suits their political cause especially on smaller countries. I call that HYPOCRISY. DOUBLE STANDARDS apply to AI. Yes I am against donating to AI and I will advocate against donations to AI. SPCA deserves more donations than AI - far more. AT least they don't do double standards on cruelty to animals.
Nicotine VS crack, morphine or heroin
http://www.megalink.net/~dale/quitcigs.html
Cigarette smokers are just as much an addict as someone hooked on crack, cocaine, morphine or heroin....
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4163
Previous studies have suggested that the earlier someone starts smoking, the more likely they are to be life-long smokers and the more trouble they have in kicking their addiction....
The results indicate that early nicotine exposure can leave a lasting imprint on the brain....
so can you tell me are you qualified enough to judge that cigarette addiction cannot be compared to drug addiction? simple because cigarette is cheaper and easily available?
Do you maintain your mental capacity while high on crack/morphine or cocaine? NO .
Do you maintain your mental capacity while smoking cigarettes? YES.
if i know a parent of a drug addict, i will tell him that i respect the rights of drug addicts and i agree drug traffickers should be severely punished, but
the punishment should not be death. Life imprisonment should be more than sufficient. If they are from third world country/ they got sabotaged into taking drugs, i won't comment further, otherwise i would have told him that drug addicts are also at fault for trying to take drugs
simply because its cool. At the very least putting right and wrong aside, drug ttraffickers sell drug because they want to give their family and themselves a better life. Your son/daughter go to school, there is the newspaper, and he has you as your parents, and there is always the internet to warn you the dangers of taking drugs. Despite all the channels of info available to you, you CHOSE to take drugs simply because its COOL hip-hop and stuff? whos *^#&ing fault is that? stop pushing all the blame to the drug traffickers and absolve all blame from your son or yourself, since you are responsible for your own child.
Some teenagers are headstrong even though their parents try their best to parent them. I was a teenager once - it was my way or the highway. Are you going to lock up your teenager if your teenager is rebellious and throw away the key?
You are innocent until proven guilty. You have a right to recourse and appeal. The accused have a right to legal counsel. Did I say lock up single part of your luggage...oh yes I did. If the luggage presents a risk - do not even bring it. My luggage have security tags on each one of them so if it is tempered with - I will know and I have the proof to say it is tempered with.
now let me ask you how about you stare at the eyes of the drug addict's parents and tell them straight in their face even if their son is innocent/ got set-up by others without having a fair trial, it is his responsibility and fault and he deserves to be hanged? this is the second most important reason why
i think MANDATORY death penalty, not the dealth penalty itself, shld be abolished. Unlike murder, it is so easy to sabotage someone with drugs and you can say goodbye to that person's life. What happen if you accidentally fall asleep and someone slip drugs into the bottom compartment of your luggage fill to the brim with all kinds of clothes or whatever? with the kind of judical system in sg, can you ensure that every drug trafficker is guilty and all of them have a fair trial?
the most important reason why i think MANDATORY death penalty should be abolished is because i don't want to see singapore suffering a backlash from executing foreigners.
At least Singapore does not exercise a Guantanamo Bay type of system under the US Patriot Act.
Singapore is a sovereign nation . Most foreigners will know Singapore have stringent drug laws. If they are unaware of it , the airline will make sure they are. Why should Singapore bow down to foreign powers? -
I do not personally know of any first hand examples of victims of drugs.But I am well aware of the consequences of drugs. I am for death sentence. Each country has her own rules, just like how each family has their regulations.
There is a reason for having such rules and regulation in the country. Otherwise, it's going to be chaotic. It is very simple, you break the rules, you get your punishments, no questions asked. -
Originally posted by fymk:
Just shut your trap if you've nothing but mindless drivel to offer. For starters, who defines what's illegal? So if crack were legally available in country A and barred in country B, are we supposed to presume the entire world need share country B's stance on what constitutes legitimacy?
Cut the BS about comparing knives and drugs. Illicit drugs are a crime in itself. A knife is what you need to use in life to cut your meat , your fruits and your bread. It's like comparing an apple falling out of a tree and accidentally hitting someone compared to a durian thrown out of a HDB flat to kill someone ( illicit druglords and traffickers)
[b] The illicit drug market is focused on malicious use.
Drug lords and traffickers know that growing and trafficking the substance itself are ILLEGAL. They intend to profit from A CRIME. They do not give a damn about telling people about the side effects. They have no ethics. A person they target is usually the young people and usually teenagers or minors as we call them. Teenagers are their best market because teenagers have the mindset of invincibility and would willingly take up anything that LOOKS COOL or FEELS COOL. Once addicted , that addiction will likely follow them through life and increase the sales for the druglords and traffickers. The law seeks to protect all citizens and their children from such dangers and reduce these malicious people from influencing the younger generations.
These markets are focused on lawful use.
Knife manufacturers ( if we are talking brand names like wiltshire) manufacture knives for the purpose of daily and necessary use. They did not intend to profit from murder or crime. Their sole intent is to earn their profits through law abiding citizens who use it legally.
Even dagger/sword manufacturers and gun manufacturers sell only through licensed dealers because of the need for registration under the law. That is to do a traceback if a crime has been committed. Even all the pharmaceutical companies and vaccine companies have batch numbers to do a traceback on severe reactions.
Want to talk moral? So tell me where are the BLOODY rights for victims ? Not the druggies but their families and people whom they hurt in order to get to the drugs? How about young people like teenage minors who didn't know better but tried once and got a major reaction from it rendering them vegetables for the rest of their life?
Don't talk to me about sparing drug traffickers or druglords' lives. They are criminals - THEY KNOW Singapore HANGS DRUG TRAFFICKERS if they have OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT - THEY CHOSE TO COME INTO SINGAPORE - THEY GET CAUGHT , THEY HANG . That is HOW it plays out.
[/b]
I never denied that people who violate the rules of the game deserve to be punished as stipulated by its rules.
That said, you must be a bloody moron to not comprehend the simple logic(without analysing the rules) that implicating others for your own predicament is senseless - and no, you haven't convinced me how a drug lord plays a bigger role in abetting the demise of a victim, compared with that of a knife manufacturer whose weapon is used in a murder. -
Originally posted by walesa:
FYMK actually makes a pretty good argument, better than me in fact.
Just shut your trap if you've nothing but mindless drivel to offer. For starters, who defines what's illegal? So if crack were legally available in country A and barred in country B, are we supposed to presume the entire world need share country B's stance on what constitutes legitimacy?
[b]I never denied that people who violate the rules of the game deserve to be punished as stipulated by its rules.
That said, you must be a bloody moron to not comprehend the simple logic(without analysing the rules) that implicating others for your own predicament is senseless - and no, you haven't convinced me how a drug lord plays a bigger role in abetting the demise of a victim, compared with that of a knife manufacturer whose weapon is used in a murder. [/b]
So don't call him a moron when you can't even back up your own argument.
Name me a country that Heroin & Cocaine is legal. In fact apart from Holland where Weed is legal, name me a country has drugs flow like milk and honey.
Legitimacy is constituted from a general consensus among the world body.
If you were a leader of a country, someone in your cabinet hands you a file report on people that are dying of drug abuse.
Whats the logical point of action? Use your mind to think about it. Of Course Ban drugs that are harmful.
If you can name me a country that actually supports recreational drugs of all kinds , i will eat my own ass.
You still don't get it do you?
Drug Lords simply they don't care about people who die from drug use! All they care is the amount of money it makes them.
By not caring what your product does to people on a general daily basis is willfully abetting in the death of thousands of drug addicts.
Kitchen knives are invented for the sole purpose of cutting food and not stabbing humans. If you want to debate more i could say there are many items in the standard household that would kill a human being.
Motive is the cause of murder. Its not like the knife came to life and told the person to commit murder.
So if all you can do is ask more questions and spewing nonsensical statements, why just don't you sit down and think out a rational way to solve the problem instead of being a internet tough guy screaming that you hate the system.
Like i said to another nubcake. If you have such a bleeding heart for these guys, why don't i see you even helping?
You know why you don't? Because you're self righteous -
Originally posted by Ignatiaus:
Alright, I shall oblige to satisfy your curiosity so you can go eat your own ass (and save me the trouble of addressing the other issues in your post) : http://www.cocaine.org/colombia/legal.html (do pay attention to the 2nd and 4th paragraphs in case you can't locate the part which directly addresses your question
FYMK actually makes a pretty good argument, better than me in fact.
So don't call him a moron when you can't even back up your own argument.
Name me a country that Heroin & Cocaine is legal. In fact apart from Holland where Weed is legal, name me a country has drugs flow like milk and honey.
Legitimacy is constituted from a general consensus among the world body.
If you were a leader of a country, someone in your cabinet hands you a file report on people that are dying of drug abuse.
Whats the logical point of action? Use your mind to think about it. Of Course Ban drugs that are harmful.
If you can name me a country that actually supports recreational drugs of all kinds , i will eat my own ass.
You still don't get it do you?
Drug Lords simply they don't care about people who die from drug use! All they care is the amount of money it makes them.
By not caring what your product does to people on a general daily basis is willfully abetting in the death of thousands of drug addicts.
Kitchen knives are invented for the sole purpose of cutting food and not stabbing humans. If you want to debate more i could say there are many items in the standard household that would kill a human being.
Motive is the cause of murder. Its not like the knife came to life and told the person to commit murder.
So if all you can do is ask more questions and spewing nonsensical statements, why just don't you sit down and think out a rational way to solve the problem instead of being a internet tough guy screaming that you hate the system.
Like i said to another nubcake. If you have such a bleeding heart for these guys, why don't i see you even helping?
You know why you don't? Because you're self righteous
) 
Actually, there're other examples I can think of, but shall just stick to one tangible case with a decent report to disprove your ill-advised "consensus" for the sake of this argument.
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant folks can make such a vehement case for something they barely know. -
Hey buddy.Originally posted by walesa:Alright, and I shall oblige your curiosity so you can go eat your own ass now : http://www.cocaine.org/colombia/legal.html (do pay attention to the 2nd and 4th paragraphs in case you can't locate the part which directly addresses your question ) Actually, there're other examples I can think of, but shall just stick to one tangible case with a decent report to disprove your ill-advised "consensus" for the sake of this argument.
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant folks can make such a vehement case for something they barely know.
Fair enough for naming Columbia.. But read on to the next line.
I said all kinds. I didn't specify one or two so LRN2READ so ass eating is postponed
Columbia is the drug capital of the world. Everyone knows that! Even HOLLYWOOD! These are where the drug lords live for god's sake.
And if you can only target one paragraph in my argument to contest. You must really be running out of ideas when you can't even read that line in its explicit detail.
Come on give me your best shots and i'll shoot it down like flies in a urinal.
Give me your "other" examples to disprove my "ill-advised" consensus.
And lastly. i repeat myself again... If you have so much arguments...
Please write to Parliament so the MPs can laugh and spittle all over the "angry" letter. I'm sure they'll love to hear your views.
Being a internet tough guy here is useless when most of us already decided that the current law still stands and WILL remain standing.
So to end it all
Whatever you reply, you'll still lose the argument no matter how strong your evidence is. And even if i don't counter-argue someone else will. And no one outside this forum will even hear your screams of humanity saving bullshit
Know why? Coz you can't provide a suitable alternative.
If you want to continue screaming that this is wrong
You're screaming at the wrong crowd
Face it nothing you say will ever make it to even a residential MP
So keep on arguing and most will just laugh at the fact of a guy trying to help a convict he's never even met or know. -
double post
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Originally posted by walesa:
Oh such aggressiveness......
Just shut your trap if you've nothing but mindless drivel to offer. For starters, who defines what's illegal? So if crack were legally available in country A and barred in country B, are we supposed to presume the entire world need share country B's stance on what constitutes legitimacy?
[b]I never denied that people who violate the rules of the game deserve to be punished as stipulated by its rules.
That said, you must be a bloody moron to not comprehend the simple logic(without analysing the rules) that implicating others for your own predicament is senseless - and no, you haven't convinced me how a drug lord plays a bigger role in abetting the demise of a victim, compared with that of a knife manufacturer whose weapon is used in a murder. [/b]
You must think you are very clever .
No . I am no bloody moron as suggested. Like I say I have seen drug addicts and how they affect their own families and society.
Talk is cheap - we can compare drugs and knives all you want . I standby the fact that I argued it the other way. If you have issues with me picking at your intellect , that's a problem you need to resolve with your own pride.
As for my mindless drivel : what is wrong with asking where the rights of the victims stand? Some of the quotes seem to be that of protecting the rights of criminals when it seems like they forgot the rights of victims as well.
Singapore is a small country with a main resource of human beings and its economy dependent on human beings. I see Singapore's drug laws as a defence of their resources. Illicit drugs does not help that resource in any way.
It is not a necessity that you would have illicit drugs as part of your daily life . It is a necessity that we require knives to cut our food . You cannot do without a knife but you can do without an illicit drug. Dp you also know that you can kill with other daily items you use? Like skewers, screwdrivers, hammers, saws as well? Those items are also manufactured for the sole purpose of legal use - to hammer a nail in, to skewer meat , to screw a nail in, to saw wood. So are you going to use that premise to charge every single manufacturer for manufacturing needed items? The courts will never take that into account.
Harvesting and manufacturing illicit drugs itself is a crime in most countries. The druglords and drug traffickers know that trafficking illicit drugs are a crime in most countries save for Columbia. That is why illicit drugs costs a bomb to smuggle in. I don't see how your argument of knife versus illicit drugs at all.
Answer me this : Have you dealt with a family of a drug addict before? Have you seen first hand how it affects a person or seen how people go homeless because of drugs? -
let me sidetrack a bit.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:We do not wantonly kill anyone for no reason. The courts are not governed by human emotions but by laws and regulations that have been around since God passed the 10 commandments to Moses.
i see you're chirstain.
My pastor once said this: if u refuse to grant forgiveness to others, what makes you think you will be forgiven by your father in heaven?
You even called it bad karma if the innocent were to be hanged. What if you were in their shoes, and you wanted to repent but no one gave u a chance?
One of the most important commandments is to love your neighbour as you would love yourself.
dont be a disgrace to christains by plucking any blibical name and inserting it into your arguments.
If you were to put the commandments(laws) set by humans ahead of the commandments set by god, you might as well give up your faith completely. -
I'm not a Christian but i am well readOriginally posted by OO_OO_OO:let me sidetrack a bit.
i see you're chirstain.
My pastor once said this: if u refuse to grant forgiveness to others, what makes you think you will be forgiven by your father in heaven?
You even called it bad karma if the innocent were to be hanged. What if you were in their shoes, and you wanted to repent but no one gave u a chance?
One of the most important commandments is to love your neighbour as you would love yourself.
dont be a disgrace to christains by plucking any blibical name and inserting it into your arguments.
If you were to put the commandments(laws) set by humans ahead of the commandments set by god, you might as well give up your faith completely.
If you are Christian you know executions have been around for thousands of years.
God instituted Capital Punishment for the crime of murder (Genesis 9:5-6), which was singled out as an attack upon God himself and the most serious offense. There were 36 separate offenses throughout the Old Testament (Book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, & Deuteronomy) that were punishable by death including Murder (no pity), rape, sacrificing to false gods, and so on. We can find instances of execution being carried out in the Bible (e.g., Leviticus 24:10-16). It was practiced both in ancient Israel (as reflected in the Old Testament) and in Judea in the first century (as reflected in the New Testament). Execution was given theological justification, both in the Old & New Testament. The Pentateuchal rationale for capital punishment was not basically in terms of societal order, and thus modern utilitarian values (e.g., does it deter?) have no bearing on the validity of the biblical attitude toward the penalty even though the Bible states it does deter (Deuteronomy 19:20; also see: Eccles. 8:11). The motive for capital punishment was not human desire for vengeance (retribution), and thus modern theological abolitionists on that basis cannot criticize it. There is not a verse in the Bible in either the Old or New Testament that overtly departs from the consensus on the topic. There are no theological stances in either testament (be they forgiveness of enemies, love, non-vengeance, etc.) that may be taken as an implicit challenge to capital punishment. The Bible distinguishes killing in battle, or in self-defense, or in accident, or as execution, from murder and negligent homicide (which alone merit execution).
Here is quote of jesus himself during the sermon on the mount
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
So its justified to hang drug dealers & traffickers as they already stain their hands in blood by giving drugs to people who in the end die from it.
So its still murder technicallyWhat if you were in their shoes, and you wanted to repent but no one gave u a chance?
If the drug trafficker was a penitent man, he would repent for his own sins and have no fear of death. If he was about to be hung, he would know his soul was bound for heaven. So in that respect, you should have also prayed.
I bet you didn't anyway.if u refuse to grant forgiveness to others, what makes you think you will be forgiven by your father in heaven?
Many pastors have different points of views. God is the one ultimately the one who judges the souls of people. We cannot judge others so forgiving each other is not a requisite.One of the most important commandments is to love your neighbour as you would love yourself.
Do you follow this commandment to the letter? Do you treat EVERYONE like your best friend? If you do then you can rebuke me.
Like many Christians in Singapore. They don't follow every commandment.dont be a disgrace to christains by plucking any blibical name and inserting it into your arguments.
By assuming i was Christian was a bold move. Can't someone read theology out of knowledge? By that you are insipid as your comments.
If you were to put the commandments(laws) set by humans ahead of the commandments set by god, you might as well give up your faith completely.
If you read history properly. Most laws are derived from the 10 Commandments. Those were the templates for modern law.
If you were a good Christian.
You would know ALL this. But i bet you don't. You know why?
Coz like many guys here who go to church. They go to see girls only.
So like before you got your own ass owned!
Please write out a decent argument instead of having me hand you your ass every time.
LRN2READTHEBIBLE
LRN2NOTSTAREATGIRLSWHILEINPRAYER
LRN2TALKWITHOUTLOOKINGSTUPID
Nubcake -
It brought closure to the victim's family. It brought closure to most Singaporeans.Originally posted by iveco:Still, the hanging of Took Leng How did not bring much closure. Many people still think there were some unanswered questions. Huang Shuying herself is questionable.
The personal behaviour of her mother has nothing to do with the issue. Took was guilty, Took was executed...period. -
as usual. generalisations.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:You would know ALL this. But i bet you don't. You know why?
Coz like many guys here who go to church. They go to see girls only.
you've already dented your credibility and i wont bother reading that chunk of bullshit.. -
As usual you have no proper come back. If my credibility is dented and you won't bother to read my "bullshit". Then why you highlight a portion of my "chunk of bullshit"? Never Read? Yeah Right! LIAR!Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:as usual. generalisations.
you've already dented your credibility and i wont bother reading that chunk of bullshit..
Why do you still reply to this thread? Huh? Trying to save your little ego?
And i'm not generalizing
Christians in Singapore have getting more hypocritical:
Here are some examples
Ho Yeow Sun - Used her pastor status to help propel her into the singing pop market by support of the CHC congregation
Lawrence Kong of FCBC - Used his status as a pastor to further his career in stage illusions.
A pastor is supposed to lead his flock. Not to goof around with his/her own ambitions and whats worse is to use the church's money to boost their own agendas
Guys who go to churches tend to be more focus on getting to know girls than God. I'm not saying every guy but there are alot.
And like yourself if you declare yourself a Christian
Here are your flaws as a Christian
Love for your neighbor - If you had this, why are you talking to me like you despise me? Where is the love i keep hearing about?
Bible Knowledge - If you knew everything in the bible like a good Christian would, you would have known that capital punishment has been around for a really long time.
Fundamentalist Thinking - If you claim a life is sacred. Then technically you are committing murder right this minute. By wiping your nose you're killing germs.
By walking around you're killing tiny insects.
Swearing - Do you read that Jesus swears alot in the bible? I don't think so
If by choosing which life is sacred and not sacred means you are hypocritical
If the courts decided to let him go without the death penalty but the condition was that he be under your care. Would you take him in?
You would if you were a good Christian but i doubt you'll do it.
So in contrast
You're a big disgrace to your religion and to God if you think what you're doing is the right thing. By thinking you are you're only lying to yourself
And that hell has a nice place waiting for you.
BTW Your spelling really sucks. Grammar also. Did you by any chance even go to school?
LRN2SPELL
LRN2REPLYPROPERLY
Nubcake -
Still, Huang Shuying herself is dodgy all the same, considering her criminal past. This is a hard fact.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:It brought closure to the victim's family. It brought closure to most Singaporeans.
The personal behaviour of her mother has nothing to do with the issue. Took was guilty, Took was executed...period. -
Oh, save the formalities - I'd rather have flies for buddies. At least, I'm sure they make more intelligent companions, really.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:Hey buddy.
Fair enough for naming Columbia.. But read on to the next line.
I said all kinds. I didn't specify one or two so LRN2READ so ass eating is postponed
Columbia is the drug capital of the world. Everyone knows that! Even HOLLYWOOD! These are where the drug lords live for god's sake.
And if you can only target one paragraph in my argument to contest. You must really be running out of ideas when you can't even read that line in its explicit detail.
Come on give me your best shots and i'll shoot it down like flies in a urinal.
Give me your "other" examples to disprove my "ill-advised" consensus.
And lastly. i repeat myself again... If you have so much arguments...
Please write to Parliament so the MPs can laugh and spittle all over the "angry" letter. I'm sure they'll love to hear your views.
Being a internet tough guy here is useless when most of us already decided that the current law still stands and WILL remain standing.
So to end it all
Whatever you reply, you'll still lose the argument no matter how strong your evidence is. And even if i don't counter-argue someone else will. And no one outside this forum will even hear your screams of humanity saving bullshit
Know why? Coz you can't provide a suitable alternative.
If you want to continue screaming that this is wrong
You're screaming at the wrong crowd
Face it nothing you say will ever make it to even a residential MP
So keep on arguing and most will just laugh at the fact of a guy trying to help a convict he's never even met or know.
So what's next? Colombia is the "drug capital of the world" and therefore their laws are supposed to be inadmissible for the sake of this argument despite your blatant contention that you'd eat ass if I could name you one. Now, go read on it - cocaine too is legal in Mexico. Like I've said, stupidity is boundless - and you're obviously a perfect epitome of that.
Talk about self-righteousness - it really beats me who's trying to dodge the bullet and still vehemently forcing an issue on other mortals despite having been proven wrong. Then again, fools seldom differ, don't they?
(well, come on - I'm expecting more personal and senseless drivel from you next since you ain't making much sense logically anymore) -
Bearing in mind this is a forum to discuss openly about agreements and disagreements. Need not get so hung up on another person's opinion when you could be better using your seemingly superior intelligence to something more worthwhile in real life.Originally posted by walesa:Oh, save the formalities - I'd rather have flies for buddies. At least, I'm sure they make more intelligent companions, really.
So what's next? Colombia is the "drug capital of the world" and therefore their laws are supposed to be inadmissible for the sake of this argument despite your blatant contention that you'd eat ass if I could name you one. Now, go read on it - cocaine too is legal in Mexico. Like I've said, stupidity is boundless - and you're obviously a perfect epitome of that.
Talk about self-righteousness - it really beats me who's trying to dodge the bullet and still vehemently forcing an issue on other mortals despite having been proven wrong. Then again, fools seldom differ, don't they?
(well, come on - I'm expecting more personal and senseless drivel from you next since you ain't making much sense logically anymore)
You can either choose to agree to disagree or continue your personal attacks. Tha latter will not prove your point or get a person to agree with you.
Not all of us are blessed to be laden with such burden of pure over-emotional intelligence or rather possess an overflowing need to control such a great superiority complex.
If flies made better buddies or as you say intellectual companions , why are you even bothered with replying to Ignatius? -
Originally posted by fymk:
I sure ain't a genius - that said, it isn't all that hard to identify a self-righteous idiot when I see one either.
Oh such aggressiveness......
You must think you are very clever .
No . I am no bloody moron as suggested. Like I say I have seen drug addicts and how they affect their own families and society.
Talk is cheap - we can compare drugs and knives all you want . I standby the fact that I argued it the other way. If you have issues with me picking at your intellect , that's a problem you need to resolve with your own pride.
As for my mindless drivel : what is wrong with [b] asking where the rights of the victims stand? Some of the quotes seem to be that of protecting the rights of criminals when it seems like they forgot the rights of victims as well.
Singapore is a small country with a main resource of human beings and its economy dependent on human beings. I see Singapore's drug laws as a defence of their resources. Illicit drugs does not help that resource in any way.
It is not a necessity that you would have illicit drugs as part of your daily life . It is a necessity that we require knives to cut our food . You cannot do without a knife but you can do without an illicit drug. Dp you also know that you can kill with other daily items you use? Like skewers, screwdrivers, hammers, saws as well? Those items are also manufactured for the sole purpose of legal use - to hammer a nail in, to skewer meat , to screw a nail in, to saw wood. So are you going to use that premise to charge every single manufacturer for manufacturing needed items? The courts will never take that into account.
Harvesting and manufacturing illicit drugs itself is a crime in most countries. The druglords and drug traffickers know that trafficking illicit drugs are a crime in most countries save for Columbia. That is why illicit drugs costs a bomb to smuggle in. I don't see how your argument of knife versus illicit drugs at all.
Answer me this : Have you dealt with a family of a drug addict before? Have you seen first hand how it affects a person or seen how people go homeless because of drugs?
[/b]
Well, yeah, so you know a couple of people who have been afflicted by the repercussions of drug abuse and yeah, it must be the greatest sin to have afflicted mankind. So let's address your bloody issue and talk sense(at least, I find your issues more worthy of addressing than Ignatius' garbage) then. (Quit the crap about being emotional when words like "bullshit" get thrown about just because you think you've seen the world with whatever limited experiences of yours and bragging about it seems so convincing the world shouldn't be entitled to have an alternate view to the gravity of this problem)
You know, I actually fully understand where you're coming from and if it weren't for your vehement drivel about how narcotics seem the indisputable crime that is indiscriminately more serious than any other crime imaginable, I'd actually make a case for what you're trying to peddle - let me make this as simple as humanly possible lest you get confused and choose to place the emphasis on the wrong parts of my posts : for starters, I never made a case on whether narco-trafficking should be an offence that warrants capital punishment - this issue, on its own, could jolly well merit another threat on its own, nevermind what crimes warrant the capital punishment(if at all) - but that said, I've got no qualms about the fact that anyone who chooses to violate the rules of any game he chooses to indulge in deserves to face the full force of the consequences(in this case, the death penalty since that's the penalty for violating the laws as enshrined in the Constitution). So as far as this particular incident is concerned, if you're keen to contest anything written above in bold, I'm more than happy to keep any sane argument going.
Now, on to the part about the wider, social(ethical,moral, etc) consequences drugs seem to afflict families. Look, I'm not in the least interested in scrutinising Singapore's case here because drugs afflict people anywhere in the world. For starters, arguments like "Singapore's economy is dependent on its human resources" certainly doesn't hold much water in my book - look, your argument isn't unfounded, but to use such statements is tantamount to suggesting the strict guidelines are warranted just because Singaporeans are more valuable than their foreign counterparts in strict economic terms. I do not preach eugenics for a living and I'm certainly in no position to comment on such drivel, but needless to say, anyone with a sane mind will not struggle to comprehend the fact every life ruined is one too many(it really doesn't matter if you're needed by your society more than someone else).
What I am putting to you is this : what makes you so convinced that drugs are the biggest vices in the lives of people anywhere in the world? The point I really contested in your original post(which was something you picked on to begin with) was your justification for making narco-trafficking to be a crime that comes across as being the most pernicious to have ever afflicted mankind. I'm not contesting the fact on whether narco-trafficking should be legalised, but rather, why should it - at least, beyond reasonable doubts and accepted as a consensus to a vast majority - be the most serious crime by a mile. Evidently, it's not rocket science to suggest narco-trafficking is not viewed as the most serious crime in many countries - quite honestly, narcotics pale in comparison to other crimes like murder in most countries - and clearly, that tells a story on its own.
As a matter of fact, I never tried convincing you narcotics shouldn't be taken seriously from a legal perspective - that said, I just don't believe it comes anywhere close to being the most heinous crime imaginable by any stretch of the imagination and that's just my opinion. So what's your fuss about, really?
Honestly, have you seen how poverty in third-world countries afflict its people (look, I mean third world countries here and not neighbouring countries in SEA which are distinctly poorer than Singapore)? Ever encountered societies/villages plagued by inadequate basic amenities compromising their livelihood? I have seen such cases myself and despite having done that, I don't think I'm even in a qualified position to make a case as to who exactly constitute the most marginalised group of people in society! And here you're trying to expect others to buy your no-alternative, myopic view of what constitutes the gravest threat on mankind? Try telling me those drug addicts(people who made a conscious choice to get involved in that stuff) you encountered deserve a chance at life more than people who suffer through consequences that arose beyond their control! -
You've enough on your plate trying to sell your myopic perspective to the unconverted - it's good enough if you addressed issues that concerned you.Originally posted by fymk:Bearing in mind this is a forum to discuss openly about agreements and disagreements. Need not get so hung up on another person's opinion when you could be better using your seemingly superior intelligence to something more worthwhile in real life.
You can either choose to agree to disagree or continue your personal attacks. Tha latter will not prove your point or get a person to agree with you.
Not all of us are blessed to be laden with such burden of pure over-emotional intelligence or rather possess an overflowing need to control such a great superiority complex.
If flies made better buddies or as you say intellectual companions , why are you even bothered with replying to Ignatius? -
Oh dear me! Flies make intelligent companions? Thats a rather intellectual statement. Maybe since you are a pest that applies.Originally posted by walesa:Oh, save the formalities - I'd rather have flies for buddies. At least, I'm sure they make more intelligent companions, really.
So what's next? Colombia is the "drug capital of the world" and therefore their laws are supposed to be inadmissible for the sake of this argument despite your blatant contention that you'd eat ass if I could name you one. Now, go read on it - cocaine too is legal in Mexico. Like I've said, stupidity is boundless - and you're obviously a perfect epitome of that.
Talk about self-righteousness - it really beats me who's trying to dodge the bullet and still vehemently forcing an issue on other mortals despite having been proven wrong. Then again, fools seldom differ, don't they?
(well, come on - I'm expecting more personal and senseless drivel from you next since you ain't making much sense logically anymore)
If you talk about Columbia & Mexico having these drugs legally, its legal only as personal consumption. Not legal to export it worldwide. If they as a country choose to screw themselves up, we can't intervene as its not our right.
If you think drugs are alright, go live there and get high if you like it.
Our law chooses to ban these drugs for good reason. Drugs fuck people up.
We already have warning that on drugs that enter Singapore, then we exercise our laws and rights to contain drug trafficking. We don't force that ideal beyond our shores
If that reasoning is stupid. You sir are a tool which needs retuning.
How have you proven the issue as wrong? I've haven't seen anything that looks even as a viable argument.
Since my arguments are not so personal and more on senseless drivel, why doesn't anyone else contest me other than you? Plus if I'm not so logical so why doesn't anyone else try to correct me properly?
So keep on telling us how its so wrong. -
You don't believe that drugs are the most heinous crime?Originally posted by walesa:What I am putting to you is this : what makes you so convinced that drugs are the [b]biggest vices in the lives of people anywhere in the world? The point I really contested in your original post(which was something you picked on to begin with) was your justification for making narco-trafficking to be a crime that comes across as being the most pernicious to have ever afflicted mankind. I'm not contesting the fact on whether narco-trafficking should be legalised, but rather, why should it - at least, beyond reasonable doubts and accepted as a consensus to a vast majority - be the most serious crime by a mile. Evidently, it's not rocket science to suggest narco-trafficking is not viewed as the most serious crime in many countries - quite honestly, narcotics pale in comparison to other crimes like murder in most countries - and clearly, that tells a story on its own.[/b][/quote]
Drugs kill people? Hello? Not the biggest vice in the world?
By the idea that drugs slowly kills people. I'd say it warrants under murder as well.
Then what gave you the idea that it isn't one of the worst crimes?
[quote]Originally posted by walesa:
As a matter of fact, I never tried convincing you narcotics shouldn't be taken seriously from a legal perspective - that said, I just don't believe it comes anywhere close to being the most heinous crime imaginable by any stretch of the imagination and that's just my opinion. So what's your fuss about, really?
And we're suppose to take you seriously?
Why are you comparing 3rd world countries to drug addicts?Originally posted by walesa:Honestly, have you seen how poverty in third-world countries afflict its people (look, I mean third world countries here and not neighbouring countries in SEA which are distinctly poorer than Singapore)? Ever encountered societies/villages plagued by inadequate basic amenities compromising their livelihood? I have seen such cases myself and despite having done that, I don't think I'm even in a qualified position to make a case as to who exactly constitute the most marginalised group of people in society! And here you're trying to expect others to buy your no-alternative, myopic view of what constitutes the gravest threat on mankind? Try telling me those drug addicts(people who made a conscious choice to get involved in that stuff) you encountered deserve a chance at life more than people who suffer through consequences that arose beyond their control!
For people living in such conditions. Who do you really blame? Us?
We have no say to how to run their own countries. -
He is to be hanged at dawn today. Less than 6 hours. I dunno him..but i feel so sad.. Imagine u are him
Can't Sleep
Have not seen your family (family too poor 2 buy tickets here)
Full of Regret and yet your hope 4 repent unheard.
Counting the time ..
You are only 21, yet here u are awaiting death.
The judge has also agreed there may be misjudgement on yr trial,
so why .............................................
No matter whether u agree or disagree on the death ruling, pls spare a min to pray 4 this young soul who will soon be returned 2 the lord. -
Let's tackle your issue then. Rogue governments? Sorry , that in itself eradicates your argument in totality for it does not apply to Singapore . 66.6% voted for the government - majority wins. It was a democratic decision. Go talk to the 66.6% although most unfortunately ,I wasn't one of them.Originally posted by walesa:Drug lords, traffickers and addicts all make a conscious choice for their actions - you can't pin the blame of the predicament suffered by the addicts solely on the drug lords and traffickers, can you? If your argument made sense, could I then hold an automobile manufacturer responsible if a reckless driver killed a loved one of mine on the road?
Look, terrorists, mafia, narco traffickers constitute the lesser evil of organised criminals compared with rogue governments who have the backing of the constitution for their ill-intended activities and for which they do not(in most cases) need to answer to anyone...
Terrorists are detainable under the Internal Security Act because they threaten the safety of the public - made out of mainly innocent civilians . Are you saying that what happened to the WTC Tower1 and 2 by terrorists is a lesser evil ?
Yes drug lords, traffickers and addicts make their own decisions on their actions. They are responsible for it. I am ok with that.
As for your logic on automobiles and knife manufacturers , I disagree with it on the following basis :
1. Addiction negatively affects the lives of everyone in the community, either directly or indirectly.
2. The economic and health costs of illicit drug addiction to individuals and society are too heavy a burden to bear for Singapore because it is such a small country which depends on the health of its human resources. Bearing in mind, Singapore does not have much natural resources except for a natural harbour which makes it a nice port . Let me name you some of the consequences on the community should drug use be prevalent in Singapore - crime, violence, imprisonment, social unrest.
Against these basis , no.1 and no.2 will likely eradicate your argument against automobile manufacturers or knife manufacturers. A knife can be used in a crime so can a car. For a crime to happen , the person has the mental capacity to decide on their actions on whether those day-to-day tools would be deliberately turned into weapons.
Now compare it to illicit drugs. They themselves are a crime and a weapon in itself. It rips drug addicts of their mental capacity and make them a public nuisance without them being in the high and fully aware of it.
Singapore is also near the golden triangle of drugs. It can be conveniently used to a hub for drug trafficking if there are no stringent deterrents in place. You do not want to attract criminal attention to Singapore. You want it away from Singapore.
Singapore - Prevalent consumption of opiates, cocaine, cannabis,amphetamines and Ectasy are one of the lowest together with Brunei , Indonesia and Malaysia based on the Global Illicit drug trend 2003- all of these countries which carry the death penalty for drug trafficking. Hence it can be assumed that there could be some effectiveness in the death penalty for trafficking drugs.
Let me also point out - when an airplane flashes the drug trafficker warning about the death penalty in Singapore for drugs - they have a right to flush their load down the loo if they possibly can . Singapore has a certain cut off in the weight of an illicit drug to pronounce it as a trafficking offence. Those below the cut off weight will be jailed. Those above hanged.
Now please let me know if any points show how myopic I am .Originally posted by walesa:You've enough on your plate trying to sell your myopic perspective to the unconverted - it's good enough if you addressed issues that concerned you.
I would love to consider your experience dealing first hand with drug addicts and their families or maybe your vast experience in drug control policies internationally and nationally. I will have no qualms in accepting your views and experiences that is if you have any at all . -
May he go to another better world than this.Originally posted by snobbish:He is to be hanged at dawn today. Less than 6 hours. I dunno him..but i feel so sad.. Imagine u are him
Can't Sleep
Have not seen your family (family too poor 2 buy tickets here)
Full of Regret and yet your hope 4 repent unheard.
Counting the time ..
You are only 21, yet here u are awaiting death.
The judge has also agreed there may be misjudgement on yr trial,
so why .............................................
No matter whether u agree or disagree on the death ruling, pls spare a min to pray 4 this young soul who will soon be returned 2 the lord. -
Why don't you go eat ass first? It'd be a remiss if I explained anything to an imbecile like you who has failed to keep your part of the bargain...Originally posted by Ignatiaus:Oh dear me! Flies make intelligent companions? Thats a rather intellectual statement. Maybe since you are a pest that applies.
If you talk about Columbia & Mexico having these drugs legally, its legal only as personal consumption. Not legal to export it worldwide. If they as a country choose to screw themselves up, we can't intervene as its not our right.
If you think drugs are alright, go live there and get high if you like it.
Our law chooses to ban these drugs for good reason. Drugs fuck people up.
We already have warning that on drugs that enter Singapore, then we exercise our laws and rights to contain drug trafficking. We don't force that ideal beyond our shores
If that reasoning is stupid. You sir are a tool which needs retuning.
How have you proven the issue as wrong? I've haven't seen anything that looks even as a viable argument.
Since my arguments are not so personal and more on senseless drivel, why doesn't anyone else contest me other than you? Plus if I'm not so logical so why doesn't anyone else try to correct me properly?
So keep on telling us how its so wrong. -
Why don't you use your superior intellect and go appeal against the death penalty that Singapore, Brunei Negara Darussalam , Malaysia and Indonesia carries out on drug traffickers , instead of wasting it on personal attacks?Originally posted by walesa:Why don't you go eat ass first? It'd be a remiss if I explained anything with an imbecile like you having failed to keep your part of the bargain...
I am sure that with such a superior intellect , you would be able to eradicate drug use and aim for a better world where death sentences need not exist as a deterrent . Why waste it on us common souls if you think a few of us don't understand your intellectual argument?