is spending money on university degree worth it?
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I think many of you miss the point.
A University education not only give you a degree, but also opportunities.
Look at Bill Gates and Paul Allen. I think Bill Gates never got his degree but he found his life goal in university.
Same for Jerry Yang and David Filo.
Same for Larry and Sergy.
In short, university is the place where you can find smart and like-minded people to start a business and get rich. -
An engineer basically solves problems.Originally posted by the.owl:what does "Troubleshoot a system" involve? what if the job requires sophisticated maths or other scientific knowledge.
Some solve by building things (like combat engineers, software engineers); some solve by troubleshooting existing things (like network engineers).
The gist of engineering is the methodology - engineers have a structured way of working.
While maths like fourier series and optimization are taught, they are just there to decorate your degree and qualify for accreditation. -
If you don't think it is worth the money then don't go for it. No one threaten to point gun at your head or throw you into DB for 3years!
For me, I definitely will want to go Uni. Beg, steal or borrow.
Even more so now that I am working part-time. From what I have seen, there are some colleagues that have been there for like 10 years and have only Poly/Jc qualifications. Next thing you know, some young punk with a Uni degree comes in at the executive level and is straight away higher than them in the heirachy.
I don't know if it is a good analogy or not but you can think of getting a degree like going into OCS, you come out a 2nd Lt and although you respect a Snr Warrant that has been there for 30yrs, when the push comes to the shove, you are still of a higher rank.
Sg society is still at this stage and unfortunately. -
wah so much ah? Can try to do a business bcoz both also got risk...you may not get good degree in the end.Originally posted by mhcampboy:25 to 35k??
the one at swiss is gonna cost me abt 110k...
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the thing is although it may not b easy to get a job even with a degree...it will be very much harder without one...of course unless ur looking for a job which requires more experience than certs...but its rare now...they want experience AND cert mostly...so basically spending that money for ur future is worth it...n afterall the people u meet there are ppl of the same interest as u since they r in the same course n can offer asssistance in netwrking in the business arena, which is also very impt if u were to b in business...however if u reali take many years yet cannot complete the modules, wasting years of money n time to die die wanna get that degree...then in that case give up la=p
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We are in different fields of engineering so I guess our views on this are different.Originally posted by Gordonator:not everyone have the money to persuade a degree. my seniors worked their way up through hard work and experiences.
what i'm trying to bring across is that doesn't mean one don't have a degree, as u said above, means not having a better passport to places they wish to go. from personal experiences as i already mentioned earlier, employers and clients don't care u have a degree or O level, or PSLE, as long as you can troubleshoot the system, u are a good engineer.
i'm in telecom engineering.
I agree with you that hard work, talent and the right attitude to work is very important to the job than just a mere paper qualification. However, like I said earlier, whether you get a job or not is heavily dependent on the individual company's hiring practices.
I'm in the chemicals industry and I have seen several old birds in my company with diploma certification or lower who made their mark and rose as senior engineers.
Then comes the cost cutting phase and these experienced engineers find themselves rapidly replaced with young punks with university degrees. They even have to train these punks before they are shown the door.
Someone had posted earlier that companies are now moving towards preferring to employing someone with BOTH excellent work skills/experience and paper qualifications.
Of course whether you succeed or not depends on your work attitude, experience, talent and a bit of luck. But comparing punks new to the work force, a lot of them with good paper qualifications will still have a better foothold than those who don't. -
depends...
some people want it just because everyone 1 else has it...
others wan it because they see the value in it... -
I thought u study arts one?Originally posted by DriftingGuy:We are in different fields of engineering so I guess our views on this are different.
I agree with you that hard work, talent and the right attitude to work is very important to the job than just a mere paper qualification. However, like I said earlier, whether you get a job or not is heavily dependent on the individual company's hiring practices.
I'm in the chemicals industry and I have seen several old birds in my company with diploma certification or lower who made their mark and rose as senior engineers.
Then comes the cost cutting phase and these experienced engineers find themselves rapidly replaced with young punks with university degrees. They even have to train these punks before they are shown the door.
Someone had posted earlier that companies are now moving towards preferring to employing someone with BOTH excellent work skills/experience and paper qualifications.
Of course whether you succeed or not depends on your work attitude, experience, talent and a bit of luck. But comparing punks new to the work force, a lot of them with good paper qualifications will still have a better foothold than those who don't.
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I wished, all the chio ones are at arts. Can still remember that time i have to cross the bridge over to the arts side canteen to see chio bu, here all guys oneOriginally posted by the.owl:I thought u study arts one? -
eh? but then you never include the 3 or 4 years that the uni grad take to study while the diploma holder is already working and maybe has even been promoted. so, must be more than 5 years.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Taking a subsidized tertiary education course for example:
1. A 2nd lower bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering (average).
vs
2. A Diploma in mechanical engineering
I used my company as an example:
Diploma one is 1.8k to 2.1k average: 1.9k
Degree holder: average 2.75k
Difference is $850 per month
University fees: 5-6k per year; 20 to 25k for full honors 4 year course (22.5k average)
22.5k/(0.85) = 26 months or roughly more than 2 years
Basically you need to work 2 years to break even if you get a degree.
Of course this does not include the experience, an education, blah blah stuff that you cannot quantify.
And of course theres a high chance the diploma grad is more competent than you at work and faster pay rise.
It all depends on individual -
Yea.. didnt consider promotion and stuff... can vary from 2 to 8 years or maybe even neverOriginally posted by surferpunk:eh? but then you never include the 3 or 4 years that the uni grad take to study while the diploma holder is already working and maybe has even been promoted. so, must be more than 5 years.
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This is also a naive singaporean way of thinking, and also MLMers way of thinking. You cannot get anymore stupid than that.Originally posted by mahawarrior:chey, go uni for wat? spend so much, study so hard. in the end cannot even get a job. -
now nothing is free...
u want to take a bus also need money....
take a plain water also need money....
but education is always important
for better future (employment) and good for knowledge seekers -
I have to say, u have mislead yourself in the wrong way for studies.
Have you asked yourself why did you go through the trouble (Other than money) to go through university study? Are you only looking forward to the piece or paper? or are you there to learn?
Doing self-study can be possible for O & A levels because they are not specialised subjects. O & A levels is basically a bridge to understand and judge one's ability to study, therefore it does not required complete understanding to that particular subject to get an A or B.
Going through University for bachelor/Master degree is for the personal touch and learning through the many experience the lecturers went through and catching many things are cannot be learnt in the books. For example, doing assignments, presentations and on-site studies and experiments.
The price you pay at this time of your life is basically for all the knowledge you are learning from everything you have learnt within the time, excluding the books since it can be self-studied. To be more precise, even if you go for lectures and tutorials everything, but you don't do any self-studies, you still won't get a good result right? But, not getting good results doesn't means that you didn't learn anything. Of course, going for all classes + self-study to get good results is definately worthly since you have successfully grab all the jest of studying in a university.
Getting good results just from books, is definately not learning. Your aim is definately to get the certificate only. Unless you're telling me that THAT is your only aim for going through the studies, then i'll have nothing else to say.
I hope this helps
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I haven't seen that in Singapore. The demand isn't great here.Originally posted by LazerLordz:ah, for engineers, I believe certification is more important, especially in the IT field. CCNP and stuff like that..
But in Western countries such as US, degree is called nearly nothing (not exactly useless, you have to use this degree anyway). Certification is more important.
But there's one caveat: some certifications requires you to have experience in a particular field. If you don't, you won't get the certification, even if you pass their exams with flying colours. Microsoft is one of those. That's where your degree comes in. Although it's next to useless, it's useful in this sense. -
Yep same for the accounting and finance industries as well. For example to get CFA, you need some work experience above your degree. Then for CA in certain countries, you're required to work while you take it. So that gives you 3 more years of work experience when you finally get it.
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A degree may not guarantee a good job and a high pay but it does greatly increase the chances as compared to not having a degree....Originally posted by Gordonator:lol. typical singaporean's naive way of thinking.
do u seriously think a degree will 100% guarantee u good job and a high pay?
Of course one may argue that you dont need a degree to succeed in life and then immediately cite Bill Gates as an example... but please remember... not everyone is Bill Gates... -
i suppose you are referring to a diploma holder vs a degree holder right? The dip holder gets to work immediately after NS but the degree holder-to-be needs to go univerisity for 4 years before starting work....Originally posted by Gordonator:no offences to undergraduates. a degree might be important if u are into bussiness or management related jobs but for engineering it's a totally different story.
engineering requires experiences. imagine this, two 20 years old after NS, 1 started working as a engineer and the other goes into university.
4 years later, the 2nd guy finally graduated. but the 1st guy will already has 4 years of working and engineering experiences while the 2nd guy is only a noob with no working experiences and only textbook knowledge of what he learnt in university.
from my experiences, employers/customers/clients' expectations for a good engineer is that they don't care whether u are a degree holder or O level, as long as u can set up/troubleshoot and maintain the system, u are the person they want.
And if im not mistaken, a dip holder is not eligible to be an engineer... for fresh dip holders, they are only employed as assistant engineers... and yes, they will climb to the post of engineer in 3-5 years time... which is also the time when the uni grad comes out and share the same post as him... you may say, "See, they are equivalent!"... But i tell you "NO".... just look at the prospects... the company will most probably groom the degree holder... experience can be earned... knowledge is not recognised by the company if it's not on paper, so the dip holder will lose out... this is the reason why u see many dip holders complaining about wanting to get an overseas degree to boost their job prospects... even degree holders are looking forward to getting higher qualifications.... Sad to say, this is the society we live in... Face it... stop deluding yourself unless you think you are the next Bill Gates... -
no doubt a uni degree is good
but there are uni student who cant get higher than 4 to 5k due to them looking down on non-uni grads
and some bosses find they are simply too arrogant and not humble to learn new things
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We are comparing the general benefits of having a degree over here... and not discussing about personal attitude...Originally posted by syncopation_music:no doubt a uni degree is good
but there are uni student who cant get higher than 4 to 5k due to them looking down on non-uni grads
and some bosses find they are simply too arrogant and not humble to learn new things
There are of course snobbish degree holders. There are lazy non-degree holders too.... etc etc etc -
One misperception that needs to be cleared up here is that the idea of university is not to know what to think - the point is to develop the skills to know how to think.
An unfortunate aspect of undergrad life is that the majority of undergrads simply aren't taken seriously by the teaching staff. This majority is by and large perceived to be there to jump through hoops and get the paper, and that perception's often not far off the mark. Tertiary education has generally become an education-for-sale system and in doing so has fostered the jumping-through-hoops mentality.
There are a few out there that do get the point, and those are genuinely intelligent enough to go out into the real world and make it with or without a degree. If the system of separating the goats from the sheep is set up right, these are the ones who get past undergrad and get to the real fun stuff.
That said, the system's not perfect. At university and now at work, I still come across postgrads who made it by sheer perspiration and no inspiration. All kudos to them for having made it that far through sheer brute force, but they're generally people I tend to avoid working with because they don't bring aboard what's expected of people of their qualifications and I end up having to carry them. -
Actually a university is there for people to gain knowledge, not just to get the paper qualification for a better job.
Given the right circumstances, I would have chosen subjects that I would be interested in, and not those that I chose because of course requirements or because I can get an A in that.
Somewhere down the line, the universities stopped becoming centers of learning. -
well ... in my field ... a degree is more like "a license to learn" to quote one of my former profs ...
and I think it holds true for many others as well ... -
what i am saying is that it is better off for people who are qualified to go into university to save the money of high course education like degree unless you are very rich.
you can easily find out what modules the course if teaching, go to the university bookstores and buy those textbooks and read yourself.
in terms of job prospects, whatever field you are in. because of your absence of degree, your starting job salary will be lower.
however with hard work, self learning attitude, and the fact that you save large sum of money that would have otherwise spend on lecture fees, you can slowly progress up the company.
i believe the company will haves some sort of certification course or system which recognise capable people.
at the end of the day, as long as you are value added, and with the savings you incurred, the company will be throwing stones at the own legs if they do not promote you according to your real worth and productivity. if they think that becasue you still have no degree cert in the end while your performance has been excellence and as a result don;t promote you accordingly, they are doing themselves a disfavor.
i quite sure that university education around the world is overcharging us. but as i say, its too late for me. i have already owned the school a large sum liao. -
based on my personal experience, one of a professor mentioned in his lecture.
"after some time when i was a student, i realise that actually most of the thing you can just self study yourself."
another graduate tutor once said
" i seldom go for tutorial also in the past"
self study is very possible especially in our current era of fast information age.
paying money to listen to professor talk is not really worth it.
of course, things like lab experiment and test , that one is no choice have to use them and pay them for the fees.
but for lecture, tutorial fees, it pretty much extra because all these you can read from textbooks.