Why do Muslims hate the Jews and bomb everyone?
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actually, the only part i DIDNT write was the part from the Qu'ran. Everything else were my own words.Originally posted by Gauze:Anyway, the Meccan and Medinan revelations doesn't abrogate each other, they add up to a whole, though the Medinan verses tend to be more specific as a response against a particular event. It really ain't about the Jews nor do all latter revelations regarding Jews spoke bad of them.
The allusion for the deceitful conversion of the Jews has no bearing lah, especially when it has been said to let the People of the Book judge in accordance to their own books and more. Muhammad made the migration to Medina not because of the Jews but because of the persecution of the pagan Quraish tribe.
Now, if you accept the premise that Muhammad is a messenger from God, one of his purpose was to address the former monotheists to revisit their own theological histories and their relationship with God. I should add that his addresses are only meant for those who lived in his time and place because they are very circumstantial. And it appears that some Jews didn't observe the Sabbath, or even worshipped somebody(?) called Ezra, etc.
Thats about it. Context.
Accusation of corrupting God's word is nothing new.
"for ye have perverted the words of the living God" - Jeremiah.
Why must hate Jews? *Shrugs* As another muslim, I've got no problem with the Jews. Why must hate Israel? Sometimes, the politics in the middle east are somehow exported through my religion.
I see Ibn Kathir's tasfir is quoted. He sucks, lol. -
so what if it's contradicting? Well, it makes the whole scenario/situation very vague and very ambiguous. Therefore, how do you expect people to believe in what was said when they are unsure if it's true or not?Originally posted by silversurfer_41:Trendz, you obviously have no time or no patience in reading the facts whatsoever. yea sure there's an internet, but what some said internet is full of misleading stuff.
so what if its contradicting? you just criticize Islam and did you see me kill you? I'm defending my own religion but i don't kill. extremist do. they set themselves out there just to influence all easy-to-brainwash Muslims to commit terror acts. politics wise too.
I agree with sinmatic on his clarification, because both of us understands what its about. he just put it in simpler terms. I just hope that all forumites there will not jump to conclusions abt a few sentences, as earlier on i did say abt reading the whole history 1st.
hmmm.. so you said those killings are evil doings of the extremists, but how does one cultivate their own religion and beliefs? Their sole religion (roots that stem from) is still Islam, and it went a step further somehow and then things turned awry and they started using violence. (or brainwashing as you've stated)
But they could also state that they're from some other cults or religions, why Allah? Why use God's name in vain? Why Islam?
Someone mentioned - why are those densely Muslim-populated countries kind of keeping quiet in the midst of terrorism? Their rare talks of anti-terrorism are almost unnoticeable..if you had noticed it.
since you're a muslim, i suppose you should have a Quran at home or something. Hmmmm.. i'm suggesting, if it's possible.. Maybe you could confirm whether what I said is true (Islam to be the one and only religion in the world. Those against Islam or refusal to convert were deemed as defiance and disrespect should not be spared and should be annihilated)? If it turns out to be true, maybe you could take a photo as pictorial evidence. So that you could clear those non-muslims' or even muslims' (who are undoubtedly still unclear about their own religion) doubts.
Fair enough?
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I think it is very pointless to argue about interpretations about the Quran or the Bible.Originally posted by trendz:so what if it's contradicting? Well, it makes the whole scenario/situation very vague and very ambiguous. Therefore, how do you expect people to believe in what was said when they are unsure if it's true or not?
hmmm.. so you said those killings are evil doings of the extremists, but how does one cultivate their own religion and beliefs? Their sole religion (roots that stem from) is still Islam, and it went a step further somehow and then things turned awry and they started using violence. (or brainwashing as you've stated)
But they could also state that they're from some other cults or religions, why Allah? Why use God's name in vain? Why Islam?
Someone mentioned - why are those densely Muslim-populated countries kind of keeping quiet in the midst of terrorism? Their rare talks of anti-terrorism are almost unnoticeable..if you had noticed it.
since you're a muslim, i suppose you should have a Quran at home or something. Hmmmm.. i'm suggesting, if it's possible.. Maybe you could confirm whether what I said is true (Islam to be the one and only religion in the world. Those against Islam or refusal to convert were deemed as defiance and disrespect should not be spared and should be annihilated)? If it turns out to be true, maybe you could take a photo as pictorial evidence. So that you could clear those non-muslims' or even muslims' (who are undoubtedly still unclear about their own religion) doubts.
Fair enough?
After all, the difference between a moderate and an extremist is how they choose to interpret the same thing. Moderates understand the historical context in which they were written in and seek to mould and apply the teachings into the modern context. Extremists or some say fundamentalists choose to interpret the holy texts literally as they are without consideration for contexts etc.
It is just like how 2 different groups of people can choose to use a knife. One group decides to make it useful and cook stuffs. The other chooses to use it as a weapon. Get the idea?
There's no point being confrontational here as nothing will occur and everyone will just feel pissed with a sour taste in their mouths.
Let's face it, religion was never an easy issue to being with. Let's not make a discussion about a potentially thorny quagmire degenerate into chaos. Let's maintain our sanity and try to navigate discussion out of harm's way.
We need to have a basic concensus that we are discussing about religions and not in anyway attacking any particular religion. People with questions phrase them in a rational way and not resort to sweeping generalisations. People with answers can choose to address the questions one by one. We are trying to have constructive intellectual debate here, not trying to destroy or defend one's religion.
People who are out to attack a religion or out to dismiss any semblance of debate, sorry I think your place is either in the Salafi/Wahabi schools in Saudi Arabia or the Christian fundamentalist groups in USA. Please know that many people hold religion very very dear to themselves and any unqualified attack on any religion is likely to rile even the most peaceful and moderate worshipper, regardless of religion.
That's why above all: Peace to all religions!
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Political agendas are what fuels fundamental Islam. We cannot just look at the powerful one-liners form the Quran and ignore the people manipulating it. Without the political agenda's, they are mere contradictions. It is people who use them to manipulate the faith of believers to commit atrocious acts.
Ideas on their own, aren't dangerous. Its the people with the ideas that are.
Recorded history of military conflicts tells of how armies who believe they have a divine appointment to crush kill and destroy in the name of their faiths often managed to do so. "If God is for us, who the hell can be against us?"
The mind is a powerful thing. Yet easily perverted and warped. It sees the world through a straw, you change the shape of the straw, you will change the shape of the mind.
The media often says that the War on terror, on radical Islam is a clash of Ideology. Personally I don't buy that. It is a clash of political agenda, of interests fueled by the lust for power.
Radical Islam is but a tool, an asymmetric counter balance to the Regiments, Divisions and Battalions of the West. Find someone who has nothing, tell him his has nothing to live for, but divine purpose to die for. Strap him with a bomb, and he becomes a force multiplier of deadly proportions. -
A muslim guy once told me...
Its better to be friends with christians...rather than jews... and its in the quran...
So.. here it is...
surah al maidah...verse 82
82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers , the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikin, and you will find the nearest in love to the believers those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
maybe partly...this is why
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Of course it is a clash of political agendas. The average politician is a megalomaniac who only cares about his purse, and finally the amount of power he can wallow in.Originally posted by Shotgun:The media often says that the War on terror, on radical Islam is a clash of Ideology. Personally I don't buy that. It is a clash of political agenda, of interests fueled by the lust for power.
Of course the sheep on the ground allow themselves to be manipulated. -
Whether in context or out of context, would God, the God without a single iota of prejudice, even say such thing, or give such instructions.Originally posted by mhcampboy:A muslim guy once told me...
Its better to be friends with christians...rather than jews... and its in the quran...
So.. here it is...
surah al maidah...verse 82
82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers , the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikin, and you will find the nearest in love to the believers those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
maybe partly...this is why
This is just one of the many verses, that is not compatible with God.
Muslims are forbidden to question the divinity of their theology, and if they persist in questioning they are at risk of sanctions, and even death. This and several other draconian measures hold up Islam.
The teachings of God can withstand the onslaughts of critics and need no draconian protection.
The Taliban, in kidnapping the 23 Koreans missionaries are acting in accordance to the Quran. Of course, in context or out of context, their instructions to do so can be found in the book.
So, did the doctors, lawyers, engineers, who attempted bombings. These people are not misguided. They are guided, indeed.
Eyes, minds need only to be open.
Before there can be reform.
There is great fear in the ranks of the Muslims. -
you had just emphasized what I said.Originally posted by mancha:Whether in context or out of context, would God, the God without a single iota of prejudice, even say such thing, or give such instructions.
This is just one of the many verses, that is not compatible with God.
Muslims are forbidden to question the divinity of their theology, and if they persist in questioning they are at risk of sanctions, and even death. This and several other draconian measures hold up Islam.
The teachings of God can withstand the onslaughts of critics and need no draconian protection.
The Taliban, in kidnapping the 23 Koreans missionaries are acting in accordance to the Quran. Of course, in context or out of context, their instructions to do so can be found in the book.
So, did the doctors, lawyers, engineers, who attempted bombings. These people are not misguided. They are guided, indeed.
Eyes, minds need only to be open.
Before there can be reform.
There is great fear in the ranks of the Muslims.
anyway, i'm still waiting for silversurfer's proof as to what I say is true or false.
But before we determine the reliability of my statement, incidents happening around the world - "kidnapping the 23 Koreans Christian missionaries are acting in accordance to the Quran. Of course, in context or out of context, their instructions to do so can be found in the book. So, did the doctors, lawyers, engineers, who attempted bombings. These people are not misguided. They are guided, indeed. Shooting of a priesr and shouting 'Allah is great!', 911 attack (I suppose it may be classified as ambiguity? no?), etc" that furthered exemplified my statement which, would still be an unproven theory in context if found true would come as no surprise to anyone and everyone. -
Trendz, i believe in what i've said is true. regardless of whatever contradiction being made by me, its up to you to decide. for me, the Quran is a textbook of choices, whether to believe or not its up to individual.Originally posted by trendz:you had just emphasized what I said.
anyway, i'm still waiting for silversurfer's proof as to what I say is true or false.
But before we determine the reliability of my statement, incidents happening around the world - "kidnapping the 23 Koreans Christian missionaries are acting in accordance to the Quran. Of course, in context or out of context, their instructions to do so can be found in the book. So, did the doctors, lawyers, engineers, who attempted bombings. These people are not misguided. They are guided, indeed. Shooting of a priesr and shouting 'Allah is great!', 911 attack (I suppose it may be classified as ambiguity? no?), etc" that furthered exemplified my statement which, would still be an unproven theory in context if found true would come as no surprise to anyone and everyone.
I'm not the one whom you want to prove it. you can visit MUIS or relate your questions to a Muslim cleric. I will not entertain your repeated questions and you can flame me if you want. i've never criticised any religion in my post and i hope that i will never have to do.
i don't wish to carry on debating on this issue as more conflicts will arise. fyi, it doesn't take a scholar to understand Islam and Its teaching. It takes faith and a clear conscience.
To my Muslim brothers and sisters out there, I apologise if i made any mistakes and hopefully Allah forgives me, Insya-Allah. if you could just take some time to read up on your history, i'm sure you get what i mean. -
Oh? the muslims love us? YayyyOriginally posted by mhcampboy:A muslim guy once told me...
Its better to be friends with christians...rather than jews... and its in the quran...
So.. here it is...
surah al maidah...verse 82
82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers , the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikin, and you will find the nearest in love to the believers those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
maybe partly...this is why 
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Can't agree with you more. The problems today as in the past have been caused by blindly believing and not thinking. You see Free Thinkers are so called because they are free from all the bigotry of believing in what a prophet, messiah, god, holy books say, and they think, rather than blindly follow or listen foolishly.Originally posted by january:whatever religion you are, there is no excuse for killing.
however the nature of religion seems to be easily misinterpreted.
therefore, i think people can try to learn about atheism. It does not have many stories.
Both the Bible and Quran contain a lot of fables, fightings, killings, destruction, hatred, and of course also about morality. The trouble is: morality is thrown out of the windows! If you strip the Bible and Quran to just the morality part - it will be one page only - but which theologian, clergy, pope, priest, pastor, iman, prophet, son of god would want you to think that one page is sufficient for your daily bread or 5 prayers a day????
THINK THINK THINK .... remember you are FREE to think unless you couldn't be bothered, can't think, no-brainer, too lazy to use brain, or just plain ....... -
i love singapore for what it is today.
let's not spoil it. -
Yes, my Lord.Originally posted by LordIcarus:i love singapore for what it is today.
let's not spoil it. -
Dude. Wad u mean Allah is an Arab diety. Allah is god. Dude, did u get tis from the internet because well most of the webs are liars. i could just put up a web and say Christ is not the son of god and people believe it. u don want that, don u.Originally posted by mancha:Their holy book, the Quran, is in Arabic.
Arabic is an ambigious language.
They do not believe in God, as in the Universal God we know.
They submit to Allah, which is an Arab diety, not God.
This explains their frequent "not according to the Quran" actions. They are not "God-fearing" people. And they have no compunction about disobeying Allah.
It the humanity in a Muslim that makes him a good person, not the theology. Take away the humanity, leaving only the theology, and we will have a vicious person.
Islam is not a religion of peace. If it is would'nt the extremist be extremely peaceful.
There is a verse in the Quran that states clearly to kill the Jews and the Christians, and also to kill non-believers where ever they find them.
Humanity or theology will prevail?
It is being fought out now. -
You are pretty mistaken .... cos you don't know enough but think you do. Not everything in the Internet are lies and not everything in the Holy-books are true. To know the truth, you must know the very beginning of events ... and that is history. Unless you are part of the event or witness to that event it is a fallacy to claim that you know the truth or otherwise.Originally posted by Daisuke-kun:Dude. Wad u mean Allah is an Arab diety. Allah is god. Dude, did u get tis from the internet because well most of the webs are liars. i could just put up a web and say Christ is not the son of god and people believe it. u don want that, don u.
Allah is a diety, that's what the Muslim texts said. But to Muslims and non-Muslims - Allah is God. Same thing when you ask the fishermen - the diety they make offerings to each time before they go out to seas is also god to them. The Buddhists, Christians, Hindus - all have and believed in dieties - though they are called by different names! -
internet says this..internet says that..muslim texts say this..muslim texts say that..wiki says this..wiki says that..
all u naysayers, go find a REAL (read: genuine,learned and knowledgable) Muslim scholar in Singapore in any mosques and have tete-a-tete with him and ask him all the questions u ever have la instead of just insisting that ur right here
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Go ask the UN in 1948 when they decided to partition Palestine.
Antisemitism was confined to Christianity before that time.
Freaking Zionists. They were the ones utilizing terrorism way before any Muslims had any idea of the concept. -
I grew up in a kampong, get along very well with anyone of any faith. Even Muslims. There were Malays, and Indian Muslims. We get along well with the latter more than the Malays.
My first encounter with Muslim hypocrisy was when I started working. Muslim colleagues, I noticed would make jokes about other's religious practices, but would be extremely offended when another joke about Islam. They would tout the Quran as the most accurate book, and the Bible as corrupted. But I come to a conclusion otherwise, from their behaviour, (adultery was lauded, and Golok to legalise it), from events in Iran, (the acts of the Ayatollah and clerics there, the fatwa of Salman Rushdie).
The current state of affairs, only reinstate my belief that Islam is not from a divine source. Islamic killings in Algeria and Egypt, 911, Pakistan mob actions, beheadings, events in Malaysia, all only confirm my belief. Not influence me.
Islam is a cult of violence, with a promise of peace, if... and only if one capitulates to the Muslims.
Here is one verse, which bring to my mind what the Taliban did recently.
047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
As I have said earlier, what I post is my own formulation from over the years.
And I have only said one aspect of my opinion, I have not brought out some hadith and comment on it.
I do not believe the Quran has divine origins or inspirations. -
Ok... Simple question... If Islam is the violent religion you said it to be, why is Lee Hsien Loong letting muslims handle SAR-21 and Tarus 85?
If you walk down the street and see a muslim NPCO or CISCO, do you fear that he has 10 bullets, 5 loaded and 5 in speed loader?
Come on man, you your brain. All the violence that happened in the world is because of some political agenda. And when muslims are involved, the fact that they are muslim are magnified way more than their political agenda.
And if you read closely and the line you copied and paste, it has there the word, "IN BATTLE". The thing that made Islam sound like a violent religion is because it has rules of engagement unlike other religions. It gives us the go ahead if we are attacked. Ya know, like a police is authorized to shoot down a suspect when there's a deadly threat.
ANd terrorist around the world are twisting this rule to attack instead of defend. And people are believing the terrorist are really basing their action on the Quran when its actually their twisted interpretations.
Singapore is a land of Racial and Religious harmony. Don't you try and jeopardizes that harmony by bringing western hate here. -
Are the Talibans not in a conflict?
Did they not not make demands?
Did they not kill?
Did they not attempted to be gracious?
Are the Talibans misinterpreting the Quran, as a whole?
Or are they out of context?
Leaders an Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Singapore treat Muslims with care, why?
I am not trying to stir up trouble, but we must not pretend we do not see these things. We must not dismiss them as things too great for our understanding either.
Do the West deny the building of mosque to Muslims they admit into their country? Do Islamic nations reciprocrate?
Do you not observe these things? -
The Talibans are a crazy bunch of people who are anti-mordern and (they) decided that is the way of Islam.
But then, Islam never banned sports, Islam never banned education for women and Islam certainly don't have a 20% zakat, a donation cum tax, for opium.
In conclusion, Taliban =/= Islam.
If you still think Islam is a religion which requires muslims to kill non-muslims, then do you think that Lee Hsien Loong is wrong is entrusting muslim officers with a Tarus 85 and 10 bullets? -
alamak oni pro-anglo viewpoints are propagated here.
when a mere 3k ppl are killed by al qaeda in nyc, it's fault of muslims.
when more than a million are killed by usa and uk, it's also fault of muslims!
the biggest source of human murder today is thanks to usa and uk, in iraq in afghanistan.
two sovereign nations were invaded without even the support of puppet they themselves set up i.e. UN.
it's bias in your point of view. facts are different from your fiction friend. -
Politics and Religion have always been used for and against each other. There is no doubt that events that happened in Middle-East have its root in ancient history - like chosen people, promised land, etc. My point has always been this: THINK and do not BELIEVE blindly. The 'holy' books were written by humans, definitely not words of god! All the claims of prophets, messiahs, popes, charlatans, clergies, imans, moonies, healers, etc. can only be taken with a pinch of salt. They are all humans and humans are the least reliable creatures on earth! I would rather place my trust on a cat, parrot, mouse, dog than to totally placed my trust on human. Only the naive and the world is full of them believed so.
It all boils down to our EGO and SELFISHNESS. That desire to be superior, to control, to lord over - MY god is greater than your god, MY race is more superior, MY language is the language, MY one is the ONE.
Like I said before, morality has been thrown out of churches, temples and mosques. All they are interested is to increase their membership so that they can claim to have the LARGEST following, the LARGEST church, temple, mosque, etc. You see all of these, yet you are blind and deny the very existence of this hypocrisy. There will be no end to this because a sucker is born every minute who will eventually pepertuate and cycle the same old story. -
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I don't get it...
I don't know why people kill people for religious sake...
Doesn't all religion teach peace?