Behold the power of our Lord!
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One clarification: In Buddhism you will not suffer any form of penalties if you do not believe in and kowtow to the Buddha. It is your conduct and karma that determines which realm you will be borned into, not which deity you believe in.Originally posted by royston_ang:* You live as though Buddha does not exist.
o If Buddha exists, you rebirth as an animal in the next life: your loss is infinite.
o If Buddha does not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
From a Buddhist worldview, you can be a Christian but if you are a moral person and performs a lot of good deeds, you will create positive karma and this will come to fruition when you are reborned in a higher realm (eg. Deva realm). Conversely, a 'staunch' joss-stick Buddhist who has no compunction about killing and robbing will still reap the consequence of his actions.
The relationship between the Buddha and Buddhist is one of teacher-student or doctor-patient, not master-slave or creator-createe. The Buddha does not 'command' or 'judge' us. Buddhists only follow Buddha's teachings to liberate themselves of the cycle of continuous birth and rebirth. -
- at no cost to the believer - is a lie and is not true.Originally posted by googoomuck:Buddha did exist. He was a person. No need to gamble on that.
It's a better bet to act as though God exists - at no cost to the believer - since falsely believing that God exists leads to no harm whereas falsely believing that God does not exist may lead to eternal damnation.
It's like a precautionary approach in response to uncertainty. Better be safe than sorry.
Why don't you tell that to the suicide bombers and their victims that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ...
Why don't you tell those Christians that are racked with guilt when they do not give 10% of their income to the church that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ? -
There is also another hidden 'cost'... my personal freedom of belief. If I get strong armed into believing God, I have essentially lost my freedom to adopt (or not to adopt) my own metaphysical/ spiritual beliefOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:- at no cost to the believer - is a lie and is not true.
Why don't you tell that to the suicide bombers and their victims that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ...
Why don't you tell those Christians that are racked with guilt when they do not give 10% of their income to the church that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ? -
... and the two biggest costs I can see are
1. the surrender of thinking in favor of beliefs...
2. living life in a delusion instead of reality...
... some people might say that living life in a happy delusion is better than living life in harsh reality.
... that is most untrue... living life facing reality is the best way to live your life... reality is where success lies...
... reality includes acknowledging that you can "cash in" on believers and as you can see, there are many such people that "cash in" on the believers' inability to think... these people either "pretend to believe" or because it is so rewarding for them, they truly believe while they "cash in"....
... their rewards are not "in heaven" but right here on earth... -
Yes, the point is to learn from and not to believe what Buddha says but to learn from Buddha how to become a Buddha yourself....Originally posted by Beyond Religion:There is also another hidden 'cost'... my personal freedom of belief. If I get strong armed into believing God, I have essentially lost my freedom to adopt (or not to adopt) my own metaphysical/ spiritual belief -
On a similar line, we can say Jesus exist and is just an earthly person, not Son of God
and God is like a deva, below Buddha
this kind of discussion is pretty pointless -
... when it comes to beliefs, anything goes.... which is why beliefs are so idiotic...Originally posted by laurence82:On a similar line, we can say Jesus exist and is just an earthly person, not Son of God
and God is like a deva, below Buddha
this kind of discussion is pretty pointless
... better to stick with reality... -
Think of religion as a democracy. There is a good book with guidelines to follow.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:- at no cost to the believer - is a lie and is not true.
Why don't you tell that to the suicide bombers and their victims that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ...
This is sensitive. I rather not comment.
Why don't you tell those Christians that are racked with guilt when they do not give 10% of their income to the church that their beliefs come - at no cost to the believer - ?
Tithing is a spiritual law of giving in the Old Testament. The New Testament preaches giving willingly with honest intent but thereÂ’s no compulsion. I follow the new testamentÂ…hehe
However, you have free will. ItÂ’s not mandatory to follow all the guidelines although there may be consequences for not doing so. -
Be it reality or illusion or beliefs, as long as one is happy and comfortable with one life, so be it.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... when it comes to beliefs, anything goes.... which is why beliefs are so idiotic...
... better to stick with reality...
Be it buddha, allah, christ, guru, hindu gods, taoist etc etc, first and foremost, one must belief in himself/herself, without knowing where you are, your strength and weakness, what you are doing, what is your objectives, goal and plan in life and what you can give to world, you are then merely following the flow of life in a tunnel with no light at the end of it.
An Angel.
with my brother, Gabriel. -
... there is another (better) way but you are not aware of it...Originally posted by googoomuck:Think of religion as a democracy. There is a good book with guidelines to follow.
However, you have free will. ItÂ’s not mandatory to follow all the guidelines although there may be consequences for not doing so. -
... and if you are not happy? Believe harder? Become more delusional?Originally posted by angel7030:Be it reality or illusion or beliefs, as long as one is happy and comfortable with one life, so be it.
Be it buddha, allah, christ, guru, hindu gods, taoist etc etc, first and foremost, one must belief in himself/herself, without knowing where you are, your strength and weakness, what you are doing, what is your objectives, goal and plan in life and what you can give to world, you are then merely following the flow of life in a tunnel with no light at the end of it.
An Angel.
with my brother, Gabriel. -
Say, a robber points a gun to your head in a quiet alley and demands that you hand over all your belongings. He reassures you that you are free to choose not to hand over your stuff, although there may be some minor 'consequences' for not doing so, like the robber pulling the trigger......Originally posted by googoomuck:However, you have free will. ItÂ’s not mandatory to follow all the guidelines although there may be consequences for not doing so.
Free will anyone? -
consequence is a neutral word
so therefore, the consequence of me not following a religion maybe something positive
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Its just that instead of physical coercion, some people play this game in a subtler wayOriginally posted by Beyond Religion:Say, a robber points a gun to your head in a quiet alley and demands that you hand over all your belongings. He reassures you that you are free to choose not to hand over your stuff, although there may be some minor 'consequences' for not doing so, like the robber pulling the trigger......
Free will anyone?
IMHO, its worse than a physical threat and totally contradict the morals, ethics and conscience espoused by religions
which..makes it all looks funny and twisted -
yes and like I said, it depends.... the consequences of these belief systems vary... some people are very good at cashing in on other people's irrational fears and insecurities... they sell them a nice story to believe in and "cash-in" and for these small group of people, "beliefs" have very good "consequences".Originally posted by laurence82:consequence is a neutral word
so therefore, the consequence of me not following a religion maybe something positive -
You're right! Come join my Church of Beltizar now!Originally posted by googoomuck:Buddha did exist. He was a person. No need to gamble on that.
It's a better bet to act as though God exists - at no cost to the believer - since falsely believing that God exists leads to no harm whereas falsely believing that God does not exist may lead to eternal damnation.
It's like a precautionary approach in response to uncertainty. Better be safe than sorry.
Here's the reason why you should join my church and worship Her Holiness, Beltizar:
* You live as though Beltizar exists.
o If Beltizar exists, you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
o If Beltizar does not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
* You live as though Beltizar does not exist.
o If Beltizar exists, you go to hell: your loss is infinite.
o If Beltizar does not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
* You live as though other gods exist.
o If those gods exist, you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
o If those gods do not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
o If those gods do not exist but Beltizar is, SHE will make sure that you suffer a fate worse than hell for eternity.
The tithe of The Church of Beltizar is only 5% of you salary, bonus not included. -
chuck norris pwns all
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I wonÂ’t dispute your beliefs because ultimately it shapes your life.Originally posted by limpshaggy:First statement, of course it is not to be emulated, and the cause of the acts? Blind faith in religions. Remember the cause is more important than the effect.
Second point, again i ask back the same question, how do you define god when there is countless theory about god? What makes your God the "real" one, because it is the same everywhere. So are you saying that the purpose of religion is to reassurance about life after death and it has no practical function beside that?
For me, i don't follow religion dogma and neither am i atheist. However if you ask me to evaluate myself, i would say i am a spiritually healthy person and that is not to be mix with religion. Religion and Spiritually are often confused by the masses. Spirituality is your own conscience and connection with life and the universe in general, you can call it God or anything you like.
Third, it is critical for all of us to judge using our head and thinking , not blind faith. Just because you fear something, it is not a wise thing to randomly clutch on to something you do not understand or do not work actually. Religion works because it provide psychologically comfort about death, like your parents comforting you when you have nightmares as a child, it's the same theory at work.
Of course faith is not the same as proof. Faith is believe without questioning or rational logic. Proof is evidence and analysis. Thank God then we are judge in courts with proof and not faith or the legal system will be in chaos. And thankfully, most of us choose to use proof when approached by conmens and not faith.
Last , do not confuse non religion with non supernatural. Remember religion is a set of morale codes followed with mystical stories of a higher figure. Supernatural however can refer to things like fate, destiny, nature and the universe.
So clear up defintion of higher power, religion and supernatural forces first otherwise you are running in circles. So just like you, i won't try to temp fate or evil spirits.
Remember the phrase "If you teach a man to fish, he can fish everyday on his own". In life, everything you learn is never dead set, you are to reapply it and evolve on it to form your own style, everything is only a beginning guide...
IÂ’m for liberalism. However, itÂ’s a depot in the government who hinders liberalism. -
Support CSJ?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... there is another (better) way but you are not aware of it... -
In this case, the fight or flight instinct takes over except you cannot run when a gun( better to assume it's loaded) is pointed at you. Handover your stuff.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Say, a robber points a gun to your head in a quiet alley and demands that you hand over all your belongings. He reassures you that you are free to choose not to hand over your stuff, although there may be some minor 'consequences' for not doing so, like the robber pulling the trigger......
Free will anyone? -
Therefore, there is in fact, no free will, despite claims to the contrary.Originally posted by googoomuck:In this case, the fight or flight instinct takes over except you cannot run when a gun( better to assume it's loaded) is pointed at you. Handover your stuff. -
Your 'free will' remark is taken out of context.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Therefore, there is in fact, no free will, despite claims to the contrary.
Free will in the context of religion is you are free to believe and you are free to disbelieve after having read the good book. No gun is pointed at anyone to obey the Ten Commandments, for instance.
In reality, man-made laws restrict free will. Some laws are reasonable and just, some are not. -
I may have been mistaken, but then what is your context when you say that there are ‘consequences’ for not following the book? From the POV of the teachings of monotheistic religions, what will happen to those people who exercised their ‘free will’ to disbelieve?Originally posted by googoomuck:Your 'free will' remark is taken out of context.
Free will in the context of religion is you are free to believe and you are free to disbelieve after having read the good book. No gun is pointed at anyone to obey the Ten Commandments, for instance.
In reality, man-made laws restrict free will. Some laws are reasonable and just, some are not.
The gun pointed at your head by the robber may or may not be a real loaded gun, but you don’t know that… and consequently the sure proof way to save yourself (as expounded by Pascal) is to exercise that ‘freewill’ of yours and hand over all your belongings to the robber.
Free will anyone? -
This is a complete urban legend. If you want to clarify just search online...
Concerning Pascal's Wager- this reasoning is so full of holes that its not very useful. It's what would come naturally to ones mind, but it does not count in the possibility that God knows whether you are sincere anot, or that God rewards thinking intelligently rather than blind faith. And many other possiblities..
Basically, whatever your religion is, your faith must be true, but I believe that this must be infused with thinking intelligently. To believe just because of a reasoning so flawed as Pascal's Wager is fruitless. -
Let’s equate an act of disbelief in a religion with accepting the terms and condition in an employment contract. If you don’t accept, you don’t get the job.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I may have been mistaken, but then what is your context when you say that there are ‘consequences’ for not following the book? From the POV of the teachings of monotheistic religions, what will happen to those people who exercised their ‘free will’ to disbelieve?
The gun pointed at your head by the robber may or may not be a real loaded gun, but you don’t know that… and consequently the sure proof way to save yourself (as expounded by Pascal) is to exercise that ‘freewill’ of yours and hand over all your belongings to the robber.
Free will anyone?
You accept but breach the term and conditions and youÂ’ll be shown the door. ThatÂ’s the consequence for being out of line. However, the employer may be forgiving and compassionate and let you off with a reprimand. Breach one more time and youÂ’re out.
I cannot produce evidence to convince you that a disbeliever or a transgressor goes to hell. It is also never my intention.
There are articles about near death experience that you can google if you like. ItÂ’s not the same NDP that the survivng dragon boat paddlers have experienced. They did not experience death.
The testimonies come from people who actually died momentarily in an operating table and were brought back to life by the doctors to talk about their NDP and OBE(out of body experience).
As usual, there are debunkers of NDP and there are those who debunk the debunkers of NDP.