"Inverse Generator" made in Singapore
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I just had an idea on how your device, if you succeed, could be used. I maintain that it is not really more efficient than a normal generator. However, it could be used in about the same way as what my FYP is doing, harvest energy.
One method would be to use it in a conveyor belt system in a factory, and somehow designed a circuit such that it can harvest some energy from moving conveyor belt, and thus reducing the total amount of energy required by the whole machine.
_______________________________________________ <- converyor belt with magnets
G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G <- Generator -
Ans: There is no handle here (yet) to push the wheel, I am planning a more efficient way to push the wheel using the magnetic repulsion such as another renewable energy such as wind or solar. The charged battery can push the big magnet with a linear actuator set up with sensors. The challenge is how to make it use less energy so that the net gain in energy is more then energy input hence gathering higher EROEI.Originally posted by eagle:Ok, this is my opinion from physics concepts (Trust me, I have received awards in physics before)
1) Energy is not created by the magnetic repulsion. The "magnetic energy" that you have claimed actually came from your hand, ie you sort of store the kinetic energy into the magnetic field, which then converts back to kinetic energy again. The concept used here is Einstein's Law of Conservation of Energy
2) Inertia happens only if there is no net input or output of energy (if we view it in the energy way). Which means total energy to the system is still a constant, ie inertia does not generate more energy.[/quote]
Ans: Yes, it's not generate more energy but a carrier of energy...a Force instead. It requires my magnet repulsion to gather the inertia. Use a string and tie to a rock and swing it round for a minute and release it, the hand kinetic energy had gain in force call the Inertia and once the hand release it this force will propel it forward. Gravity makes sure it goes down and air resistance will slow it down.3) The motion is at the outside of the wheel, thus you felt that it is easier as compared to a hand dynamo. Reason is because although torque required is the same amount, and since torque = force * distance from centre of rotation, less force was used. I'm extremely sure that if the handle of the hand dynamo is extended to be the same or larger than the diameter of the wheel, the ease of turning would be the same.
Ans: The hand cranking of the dynamo does not use other assistance forces like gravity and magnetic repulsion to assist the rotation of the dynamo. It's pure hand movement vs the magnetic induction inside the dynamo.
[quote]The only way this might be more efficient than a hand dynamo, if you succeed, is that there is less weight of the handle to turn the generator, thus enabling the generator to turn faster with the same amount of force. However, the amount of efficiency gained should actually very very little.
Correct me if I'm wrong in any of the concepts. Thanks
Net efficient gain is small doesn't means it cannot be scaled up, small size windmills might have even lower gain...but it's build across countries in California. -
The question is that we got plenty of free energy out there, just no way to tap it. You can try to minimise the friction in your system to get the most out of it. What makes you think I was thinking of having a hand in the first place for the turbine? I was thinking alond this line:Originally posted by Simontay78:Dynamo require you to turn it totally converting your hand energy into kinetic energy, using it to induce electricity using lens law to the coil in the dynamo.
Mine currently uses a push and release movement of my hand and added magnetic repulsion of the magnet to the wheel, gravity to pull the wheel down and stored inertia force to make it rotate fully. The total energy spent is cut by these added forces compared to simply using your hand to turn the dynamo.
I haven't add the single phase coil connection or 3 phase coil connection yet as it's Not completed...as I mentioned in the first post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_energy -
Yes, energy is everywhere as I realized that some time backOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:The question is that we got plenty of free energy out there, just no way to tap it. You can try to minimise the friction in your system to get the most out of it. What makes you think I was thinking of having a hand in the first place for the turbine? I was thinking alond this line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_energy
Sun, Wind, Water pressure, Tidal, Geothermal, Nuclear, air pressure, chemical bonding and separating, sound vibration, vibration, magnetic (force assist with kinetic energy), gravity (force), human movement, heat, cold, atom movement, body heat and many more!
The question is how to tap and convert them into usable electricity efficiently at location that is convenient to user, you can say use battery charge using your main grid but if the grid is too expensive or shut down...what will you use then?
We humans must now rise up and do our own electricity safely but fast. -
qn: can the magnet on your hand be placed in other position?.. eg top? my fyp project is also about making electrical energy from free energy.. but not the idea of yours
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I haven't test all location yet but in theory you can place it any direction as long as the cumulative force is enough to rotate it totally other wise it will just go backwards and have to start over again.Originally posted by manyu882:qn: can the magnet on your hand be placed in other position?.. eg top? my fyp project is also about making electrical energy from free energy.. but not the idea of yours
Regards, -
I know what it is meant by inertia. However, it doesn't mean that it is any more efficient. This is because the magnetic force can work both ways; it can assist in moving, and it also can stop you from moving. In that sense, it is still rather inefficient. The main novelty I can see from this device is not in generating energy off hand, but rather, harvesting "wasted" energy from things already moving, ie energy scavenging.Originally posted by Simontay78:Ans: Yes, it's not generate more energy but a carrier of energy...a Force instead. It requires my magnet repulsion to gather the inertia. Use a string and tie to a rock and swing it round for a minute and release it, the hand kinetic energy had gain in force call the Inertia and once the hand release it this force will propel it forward. Gravity makes sure it goes down and air resistance will slow it down.
Gravity will come into play in both hand dynamo and your device. However, remember that gravity field works both ways too; it pulls both sides down, and thus it will not play a part at all here in generating energy. Totally none.Originally posted by Simontay78:Ans: The hand cranking of the dynamo does not use other assistance forces like gravity and magnetic repulsion to assist the rotation of the dynamo. It's pure hand movement vs the magnetic induction inside the dynamo.
With regards to magnetic force, refer to above
Ok, I have to say that your concept is totally wrong, net gain in energy can never ever be more than energy input. However, I guess that it is your phrasing that has the problemOriginally posted by Simontay78:Ans: There is no handle here (yet) to push the wheel, I am planning a more efficient way to push the wheel using the magnetic repulsion such as another renewable energy such as wind or solar. The charged battery can push the big magnet with a linear actuator set up with sensors. The challenge is how to make it use less energy so that the net gain in energy is more then energy input hence gathering higher EROEI.
Net efficient gain is small doesn't means it cannot be scaled up, small size windmills might have even lower gain...but it's build across countries in California.
The main way to be more efficient now is to have a larger torque and a lighter wheel weight, both of which can be potentially achieved by your device. And yup, the main thing is scaled up... Your device should not be as big as a commercial windmill; an extreme amount of magnetic torque is required. In addition, being smaller means being able to fit into more places, which might actually be more efficient. -
Ok, just be very careful on connecting with the main grid. Do more research on that because the high power AC grid have no mercy zapping your connection into a high voltage bobby trap...accident waiting to be happen.Originally posted by eagle:I just had an idea on how your device, if you succeed, could be used. I maintain that it is not really more efficient than a normal generator. However, it could be used in about the same way as what my FYP is doing, harvest energy.
One method would be to use it in a conveyor belt system in a factory, and somehow designed a circuit such that it can harvest some energy from moving conveyor belt, and thus reducing the total amount of energy required by the whole machine.
_______________________________________________ <- converyor belt with magnets
G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G <- Generator
You can use the power generated on other non-essential DC electrical equipments like LED Lights easily by using a deep cycle battery.
The battery connected with power inverter can change the DC 12Volts into 230Volts AC (Power can be ranging from 300W to 1000W or even higher depending on the power inverter specification) -
Thanks for your understandingOriginally posted by eagle:Ok, I have to say that your concept is totally wrong, net gain in energy can never ever be more than energy input. However, I guess that it is your phrasing that has the problem
The main way to be more efficient now is to have a larger torque and a lighter wheel weight, both of which can be potentially achieved by your device. And yup, the main thing is scaled up... Your device should not be as big as a commercial windmill; an extreme amount of magnetic torque is required. In addition, being smaller means being able to fit into more places, which might actually be more efficient.
I view the magnetic force (flux, field) and gravity force free hence similar to wind, sun, wave, tidal etc it's free at the input part of the device. The output is hence "slightly" more then what I put in "hand movement" kinetic energy.
Scaling up can also be in the numbers, connecting more such wheels in series to increase voltage and in parallel to increase power ^_^ I can reduce the size of the wheel too...but increase the numbers.
Yes, torque and speed can be increase using the larger gears to turn smaller gears. The problem now is resistances and net energy input have to increase to push the magnet near the wheel for the repulsion.
Big challenge to me indeed! -
You can only use the magnets to reduce friction.
The only input of energy into the system is from the hand.
No energy can be 'CREATED' out of no where. The magnets are part of the system and hence cannot be a source of energy for the system. -
It's not created, but converted.Originally posted by Phorum Noob:You can only use the magnets to reduce friction.
The only input of energy into the system is from the hand.
No energy can be 'CREATED' out of no where. The magnets are part of the system and hence cannot be a source of energy for the system.
Gravity, drop marbles on a slope and get what I mean about assisted by gravity.
Magnetic flux, play around with magnet u know what I mean.
Both these can be essentially assist my slight push upwards, to repulse the magnet.
Gosh, I cannot explain everything again! Kindly read the previous post by others
Thank you! -
We can only tap the waste energy(which is often heat) but no way to prevent backflow to system so the system may be damaged.Originally posted by Simontay78:Yes, energy is everywhere as I realized that some time back
Sun, Wind, Water pressure, Tidal, Geothermal, Nuclear, air pressure, chemical bonding and separating, sound vibration, vibration, magnetic (force assist with kinetic energy), gravity (force), human movement, heat, cold, atom movement, body heat and many more!
The question is how to tap and convert them into usable electricity efficiently at location that is convenient to user, you can say use battery charge using your main grid but if the grid is too expensive or shut down...what will you use then?
We humans must now rise up and do our own electricity safely but fast. -
Heat is generated continuously by chemical reactions (Sun, fire, steam, boiling, etc.) and also waste heat from other energy sources around us.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:We can only tap the waste energy(which is often heat) but no way to prevent back flow to system so the system may be damaged.
The reset button for waste heat is much more easier to set but almost all of them requires energy that can be traced back to fossil fuels or renewable energies.
Yes, heat energy can be tapped using Sterling Engine (Temperature Differences) used in California if I am not wrong...Sunlight reflected off a discs to a Sterling Engine to create pulsating generator.
Back flow of electricity can be limited using Bridge Rectifier (to change AC to become DC) or Schottky Diode (one way) or an expensive off the shelf "Charge Controller" that only allow one direction of electricity flow to charge the battery.(Correct me if I am wrong).
Wasted Energy comes in many forms the current problems about tapping gravity and magnetic forces are the equal and opposite energy/force is required to "reset" them at the original position so to be tapped again.
My idea is to "Reset" the gravity and Magnetic force to the "point of no return" and let it comes down again to reset it. This will gather momentum force call "Inertia" and with precise timing of my hand movement to accelerate the speed of rotation.
As I had mentioned in the first post, it's not completed yet. I need to automate the hand movement to push the big magnet to the wheel for the repulsion to happen automatically. [/b] -
Great Simon! If you can show that once your wheel is set in motion, and that there are no "external" sources of energy required, lest the magnetic field and gravitational field, on the mass of the object, and that the wheel can continue turning for like 1 day non-stop I think it would be good.Originally posted by Simontay78:
The project is not completed yet and please hold your comments until it's done. It's very sad that most people don't appreciate inventors or creator's plights and condemn even before achieving similar accomplishment.
I don't want to keep on fighting those people who don't like my demonstration and suspect those who cannot get the details of my design on the one-way crusade to criticize blindly and aimlessly.
Thanks for those people who supported me and encourage me, I will add my effort to build it more efficiently.
The current status is not complete which I did mention it in the beginning.
(I am trying to figure out to automate the movement of the big magnet and waiting to buy the components later!!)
One way is to add other energy conversion renewable energy into the loop like a solar panel to power a linear actuator to push the wheel...so the wheel actually convert solar, magnetic force, Gravity, Inertia into usable electricity.
The problem is how efficient will it be and how much more can it create...it's a fight to the finish. I don't want fame money or anything...just to build a system and create jobs and hope.
Please, help me root those naysayers away as it will only kill ambition and creativity.
Thank you very much and Merry Christmas!
Take for example, you know those small models of "trains" on a magnet strip? The metal object or "train" is able to hover on the magnet strip (bars at certain spacing) and that the magnet propels the "train" forward continuously.
Take note, try to minimise lost of energy by any friction etc. -
The idea behind this project is to use gravitational and magnetic field on the object itself to propel/rotate itself perpetually.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Actually this project was done with similarity to the "Mythbusters" program, in the end, it worked but it wasn't producing enough energy to have build the system in the first place. (i.e the working parts wore down before the cost of building the system was met even with lubricants.)
For this just using ball bearings which will not wear down that fast.
You were talking about the power source to the wheel, I suggested hooking it up to a dynamo(should be a turbine) using tidal power which is one of the most inefficient way of doing things.(Tides down in the straits are real fickle) Solar energy will not work easily as Singapore is a humid country with a expected 60% power lost to humidity and cloud formations and limited space constraint.
Take note, its not anything about PMM, i.e. perpetual motion machine learn in year 2 of thermodynamics in univ, as we are talking about forces and fields that propels motion, not energy. The external fields acting on the object provides the "potential" energy in the object that causes it to move, and hence kinetic energy. -
yup, the "Weight" i.e. objects falling by themself due to gravitational field, and the magnetic field, provides this "invisible" hand to keep rotating the wheel.Originally posted by Simontay78:Dynamo require you to turn it totally converting your hand energy into kinetic energy, using it to induce electricity using lens law to the coil in the dynamo.
Mine currently uses a push and release movement of my hand and added magnetic repulsion of the magnet to the wheel, gravity to pull the wheel down and stored inertia force to make it rotate fully. The total energy spent is cut by these added forces compared to simply using your hand to turn the dynamo.
I haven't add the single phase coil connection or 3 phase coil connection yet as it's Not completed...as I mentioned in the first post. -
I know what it is meant by inertia. However, it doesn't mean that it is any more efficient. This is because the magnetic force can work both ways; it can assist in moving, and it also can stop you from moving. In that sense, it is still rather inefficient. The main novelty I can see from this device is not in generating energy off hand, but rather, harvesting "wasted" energy from things already moving, ie energy scavenging.
I have to agree with Eagle on this. -
What I had mentioned earlier applies in general to any system.Originally posted by Phorum Noob:You can only use the magnets to reduce friction.
The only input of energy into the system is from the hand.
No energy can be 'CREATED' out of no where. The magnets are part of the system and hence cannot be a source of energy for the system.
Potential energy has to be gained from external source for the system's energy to increase. As electricity is produced and used up, energy is thus drawn from the system. No matter how you setup up or design the system, the efficiency can never exceed 100%. The energy conversion efficiency could be made very close to 100% by reducing friction,..etc...
Most importantly: As the energy is converted into electrical energy to be transferred to a load such as a device or a battery, there will be a corresponding opposing induced EMF setup at the induction coils such that it would cause the 'rotation' to slow...etc. (Try dropping a magnet into a steel pipe for instance...if the magnet is very strong, it'll fall noticably slower through due to eddy current induced in the pipe).
You said: There's 'one key moving component that is still manual at the moment'.
In the most ideal case where friction/resistance are ignored, it'll simply supply X amount of energy to drive the wheel to produce X amount of electrical energy. Its quite analogous to using one battery to charge another battery. -
I still have to say that gravity will work both ways, and the resultant torque on the symmetrical wheel due to gravity still remains at zero no matter what.Originally posted by nightzip:yup, the "Weight" i.e. objects falling by themself due to gravitational field, and the magnetic field, provides this "invisible" hand to keep rotating the wheel. -
Originally posted by eagle:
It might be a suitable energy scavenger if everything in this world has a magnet attached to it and when in motion is always moving in perfect resonance with the wheel's motion.
I know what it is meant by inertia. However, it doesn't mean that it is any more efficient. This is because the magnetic force can work both ways; it can assist in moving, and it also can stop you from moving. In that sense, it is still rather inefficient. The main novelty I can see from this device is not in generating energy off hand, but rather, harvesting "wasted" energy from things already moving, ie energy scavenging.
Yeh. Inertia is the resistance in the change in velocity/angular-velocity of a mass. The mass (i.e. the spinning wheel) HAVE TO decelerate in response to a convertion of kinetic energy into electrical energy in accord to the law of conservation of energy. To keep the wheel spinning, the same amount of energy have to be introduce into the system to be added back to the lost kinetic energy (ignoring various mechanism of energy loss). So I'm with you on this point. -
Hmm... if you are thinking of inventing a compact power generator, chemical(fuel) power generator are your only option. Because even if you can design a generator that turns endlessly using gravity/magneticism, you will still need many many such generators(which will take up a lot of space) to even power up a single refrigerator or television.
Originally posted by Simontay78:
Your aim makes me think of manual generators... is like in future, we may need to be manually cycling dynamo to power up our computer/electronic devices since there is no more oil available to run the usual oil power plants in Singapore
Description : Using magnet to repel the magnet to rotate the wheel.
Aim: A better way to generate electricity then a hand crank dynamo.
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Gentlemen, I understand your desire for a cleaner and more energy efficient world but, what the #$%^ is wrong with everyone here?
Did you guys fail physics or something? Do you all know the concept of minimum steps to achieving a goal, instead of going through redundant intermediates?
There is no magic, no miracle, no breakthrough here. If you don't believe me, send this video to a MOE certified physics teacher. -
I don't think TS is implying a breakthrough, but rather, describing a project by himself.Originally posted by crosshairs:Gentlemen, I understand your desire for a cleaner and more energy efficient world but, what the #$%^ is wrong with everyone here?
Did you guys fail physics or something? Do you all know the concept of minimum steps to achieving a goal, instead of going through redundant intermediates?
There is no magic, no miracle, no breakthrough here. If you don't believe me, send this video to a MOE certified physics teacher.
Truly, there are quite a few flaws in the concepts of physics described in this thread. However, TS is just trying another way to turn a generator. It is his interest, his money and his time, so let him try it. Who knows whether it is just because he's not good at explaining?
Regarding clean energy, my FYP would be on using electrostatic generators It is done by changing the plate distance of a capacitor through external vibrational source (when u walking or on a train). You could wish me luck on that -
Wouldn't that be easier done using an induction device? I mean, according to your desciption, you will have to somehow maintain the opposing charges on the plates, which could possibly include another set or sets of capacitors for the purpose of effective collection and storage of the useful energy generated.Originally posted by eagle:I don't think TS is implying a breakthrough, but rather, describing a project by himself.
Truly, there are quite a few flaws in the concepts of physics described in this thread. However, TS is just trying another way to turn a generator. It is his interest, his money and his time, so let him try it. Who knows whether it is just because he's not good at explaining?
Regarding clean energy, my FYP would be on using electrostatic generators It is done by changing the plate distance of a capacitor through external vibrational source (when u walking or on a train). You could wish me luck on that -
But wouldn't varying the distance of the plate amount to changing of potential difference only? How is work done achieved?