Normal Stream - What's your view
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Originally posted by charlize:
"Get out of my elite uncaring face"
Yes, a student can actually tell this to a 30 something working adult.
This is the system we have in sg.
wee shumin said the truth. she is an elite and she could not care less about that guy. She is merely blunt though i am not condoning her words. I am not an elite. -
All I can say is that the system is never perfect, no one system is perfect in catering to all students. The singapore education system only caters to those who are all-rounders. All-rounders are good employees dont you agree fellow employers?
Make us study science, maths, arts, history, literature, geo..etc. One cannot choose to specialise early and if you dont score well in other subjects, your average grades goes down even if you do well in your favourite subjects.Teachers (you have a moral obligation) and especially parents (i feel that most dont know how to teach their kids and leave it to the education system) have the responsibility to identify or nurture the special interest of the child. Be it an engineer, scientist, business owner, investor, artist, sports star or whatever. If you find that the child is special in certain area, take them out of the crowd and groom them, which could give them a very good head start. Dont waste time with the system of all-rounders.
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oladi normal stil so prideful.
wan face den dun go normal.
make ur parents sia suay nia.
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Another important thing to add on. The system is guilty of one thing.
For all-rounders to do well in all the subjects, they must cultivate or make themselves like the subject. So, at the end of the day they dont know what they really like anymore. It took me a long time to get out of this dilemma. Spoilt for choices, but duno what you like. Anyone experienced this before? Its like you are wasting a lot of time running in circles. Others may say that it is the process that count, but i feel that this can be avoided and its a waste of time.
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what pistonf said may be harsh but its correct. in every stage of life you are given opportunities to prove yourself. failure to do so at the approriate moment and you pay the price. regardless of whether u r a late bloomer or plain lazy. there is a reason why there is streaming EM1, EM2, EM3, Special, Express, NA, NT. not just suka suka nothing better to do go create these streams for fun.
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Originally posted by gunner77:
i have seen express students retain at sec 3 and still need 5 years to complete secondary school. so is tis wat u mean by "proven themselves capable or handling and learning at that pace through psle ?"
express students retain at sec 3 yes i have seen but reason for retaining was that they were absolutely lazy. they copied homework skip extra lessons more interested in eca represent sch team etc not become they were not capable of delivering the results. they paid a price for their laziness and not getting their priorities right. but in the o levels they were like scoring 12pts and going to jc or poly. -
Hi, I share the view of late bloomers, but I also believe in getting the right material for the right student whether they are fast or slow learner.
Point is, no matter how much we dislike the current system, there is almost nothing we can do about it unless we wait for a few more years for changes. Henceforth I would rather spend time thinking of how to tackle the current situation.
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Originally posted by pistonf:
Why a need for a 2nd chance? everybody is given the same chances in our society you FUC K up its ur fault not the person beside you.Why should the rest lose out just to cater to you. Even though i do not believe in this idea of a 2nd chance though i wish i had a few, the government is giving this 2nd chance to the students by placing them in Na allowing them to climb back to express. It sucks that your employer laughs at you but hey you are not the only applicant why would they choose you if someone else has a better track record? Subsequently there are student from Em2 who do end up in Na does it mean that they have been condemned before? In essense whether u are looked down upon or not is entirely your fault and as such u have to pay the price
The statements you made are just generalisations and reflect of that rat race lifestyle in Singapore. Ditch the weaker ones while you forge ahead. There are teachers who exhibit this mentality that all normal students are lazy . Unfortunately those same type of two faced teachers I had, are very nice to me now because they know that I am doing wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy well beyond their expectations. I had a principal who wished that we all DON'T DO WELL in our O levels .....slip of the tongue LOL .
I got issues with people portraying your view which is either too naive or too arrogant for its own good. I do agree that indulging in self pity doesn't help but for goodness sakes , we are talking about children and teenagers . They are at stage where patience, encouragement and gentle guidance will help alot. Demoralising them achieve nothing.
We are not talking about adults who should know any better and should bear responsibility for their actions.
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Originally posted by pistonf:
You cannot possibly expect the government cater to your late bloomers can you?How many of this Na students actually are late bloomers? how many subjects Na students get to do depends on the school. But if the school gives them that many subject to do is because they are unable to perform. this is because they are given sec1 and sec 2 to climb over to express fail to do so and what does it show about you? I had a senior who climbed over from NT to express and is now in uni. The system works because it is brutal and tough. The bottomline is that it is meant to propel singapore further, we are the government's and country's resources to exploit , only digits and number. I am saying this because i am still currently in the education system and though i resent it everyday and i will still say that is effective in everysense of the word. Feelings and everything else is secondary to getting results now and fast no time to wait. Singapore's policy of pragmatismI wasted one freaking year because my mandarin is sh*t . All other 8 subjects - good scores. 75% was the average score to enter express and I got blocked because of one subject even though I had the necessary 75%. The teachers - some are very good but most were sh*t.
The crap ones let us know what they think of us ....one called us stupid . Why? because she forgot to tell us to bring color pencils and we told her that she didn't tell us to do so. For that reason, it was our fault not hers.
We had a good science teacher who knew the system and made us do 10 year O level series since we were secondary 3. She set a test paper which is used for express by mistake. To her surprise ,my class scored better than her express class. We learnt how to cheat the system and that help alot of us over the hill. The history teacher taught us how to spot the questions via 10 years series.
More than half of my old classmates in normal academic stream have degrees by 25 years old , 5 of us have a master degree, and I am the first to do my PhD.
The system has flaws. When you have to teach people on how to be creative, the system is seriously flawed.
I was in the system and it wasted one year of my life on hindsight.
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i think overall, streaming is indeed beneficial to those weaker students out there. there is also ample opportunities available for the hardworking to upgrade to express, if they make the cut.
however, i disapprove of moe watering down on the quality of NA education.
NT is another matter, since they are taught with a different focus.
NA and express are suppose to be the same in terms of quality, with the only difference being the duration of study. however, as we can see, it is not the case. do you see alot of NA students being allowed to take up pure science? no. it is already sort of condemning their chances of getting into uni, as it is making it hard for them to enter jc, the easier route to uni.
yes, they do have a chance to enter poly, and from there, to uni. but looking at figures, only 40% of NA students make it to poly, and only a further 40% of poly students make it to uni. so if u go calculate, NA students have only a 16% chance of entering uni, and that's assuming that they can catch up with the rest, and at the same time be the top outstanding 40% of their cohort.
another factor is the society's current over reliance on grades. as everyone knows, grades are not everything. there can be people with good grades but their attitude sucks.
even those employers who are not highly educated, look down on NA applicants. isn't that absurd?
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I was from NA due to bad psle scores, even though I came from a top-tier primary school. Parents (especially mum) look down and hate me for being so messed up till today... kind of explains why I'm always rebelling.
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compare chery vs toyota
Answer is obvious
jkjk... NA is ok la..but if NT then might as well go and die
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Originally posted by ceecookie:
compare chery vs toyota
Answer is obvious
jkjk... NA is ok la..but if NT then might as well go and die
actually, is there any difference between NT and NA if you are the weaker students in them?you will still end up in ITE.
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Originally posted by ceecookie:
compare chery vs toyota
Answer is obvious
jkjk... NA is ok la..but if NT then might as well go and die
woi!
dun criticise the NTs too okay?
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
actually, is there any difference between NT and NA if you are the weaker students in them?you will still end up in ITE.
Technically, NA students has about 20-40% chance of going poly if they are weak.Coping and stronger students probly have 60%.
Anyway, for NA Sec 1, stronger students can be upgraded to express sec 2 if they study hard..that explain the lower percentage chance in upper secBut actually, ur still right about ITE.. there's no point in thinking that the extra year in sec 5 will "help" you..because the system is somehow meant for ITE - the syllabus is such that there's much more in sec 5 and so weak students will confirm cannot cope if they cant cope with sec 4 syllabus.
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Originally posted by ceecookie:
compare chery vs toyota
Answer is obvious
jkjk... NA is ok la..but if NT then might as well go and die
What the fuck?
So I should go and die or rather those NT students should go and die la?
Being in NA or Express doesn't means that you are good or better than us, in some ways you are shit than us.
So by saying 'NT might as well go and die' I assume that you are trying to say that we NT students are a pile of waste junk is it, a waste of time to the society right?
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Nope,but it will be very very difficult to be a accomplished person(read - good job) later in life.
That is a true but harsh statement.
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Originally posted by ceecookie:
compare chery vs toyota
Answer is obvious
jkjk... NA is ok la..but if NT then might as well go and die
I feel sorry that you feel this way.I was from Express but with HCL, but after talking to some NT guys, I realised they had dreams. For that reason, they chose NT to head towards their goals, but at a slower pace.
It's not like many of us. Most of us seem to be just following the crowd.
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Originally posted by ceecookie:
Nope,but it will be very very difficult to be a accomplished person(read - good job) later in life.
That is a true but harsh statement.
Yea, I must admit, but who to blame? I'd probably blame on Singapore Government, coming out with craps stream, if I'm not wrong, w.e.f this year, those primary school stream have already been axed away.
Why do I blame it on government? Basicially, what we are doing now is pretty high pace compared to other countries I've visit under school student council. If you are M.I.A one day, you are good as gone.
Then what? We got streaming in Primary school, getting your ass into EM3 (in the past, and I was from EM2) can use to be very disgraceful to your parents and probably neighbour will look down on you. P4 streaming exam to me consider first huge pressure by parents and to myself.
Not forgetting two years later, PSLE (Primary School Leaving Examination), again we kid get pressure again. Because is like a life of death game to us, choosing of streams lies in your hand or you can choose to retain again. Again pressure everywhere.
Then gotten result, wah sway! Kena posted Normal Technical stream! Die! Parents treat you for a round of canning. You cry, your parents feel hopeless about you, your neighbour gossip about you and look down on you. This is clear that you will go into ITE after N-level.
Man, this is not all, N-level Examniation. No matter how good you are (I was the top 10 in class last year), you still end up in ITE, unless your parents don't feel hopeless, you can jolly well forget about getting into private institution. But I'm not sure what PI can do to you.
Isn't this sucks to be a NT student? You are already been condemmed by your surrounding neigbour, disgrace your parents, and yet I don't really see the government care about NT students. Resulting ending up in ITE, we have to start all over again from there and work farking hard. We are already been condemmed in the past, and yet the future society perhaps maybe gonna condem us too.
Perhaps what you said is true, NT students should go and die, because from what I see, government just throw us there and leave us to die, slowly and tourting. Unless we found a way to stand up again.
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hey please dont feel that way. be happy.
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I hv a fren who went from NT to ITE to Poly and finally in the same graduating batch as me in NUS. And.... he has much higher networth than me (near $100k)
"condemned" by govt doesn't necessarily mean will die
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Originally posted by toyota-corolla:
Yea, I must admit, but who to blame? I'd probably blame on Singapore Government, coming out with craps stream, if I'm not wrong, w.e.f this year, those primary school stream have already been axed away.
Why do I blame it on government? Basicially, what we are doing now is pretty high pace compared to other countries I've visit under school student council. If you are M.I.A one day, you are good as gone.
Then what? We got streaming in Primary school, getting your ass into EM3 (in the past, and I was from EM2) can use to be very disgraceful to your parents and probably neighbour will look down on you. P4 streaming exam to me consider first huge pressure by parents and to myself.
Not forgetting two years later, PSLE (Primary School Leaving Examination), again we kid get pressure again. Because is like a life of death game to us, choosing of streams lies in your hand or you can choose to retain again. Again pressure everywhere.
Then gotten result, wah sway! Kena posted Normal Technical stream! Die! Parents treat you for a round of canning. You cry, your parents feel hopeless about you, your neighbour gossip about you and look down on you. This is clear that you will go into ITE after N-level.
Man, this is not all, N-level Examniation. No matter how good you are (I was the top 10 in class last year), you still end up in ITE, unless your parents don't feel hopeless, you can jolly well forget about getting into private institution. But I'm not sure what PI can do to you.
Isn't this sucks to be a NT student? You are already been condemmed by your surrounding neigbour, disgrace your parents, and yet I don't really see the government care about NT students. Resulting ending up in ITE, we have to start all over again from there and work farking hard. We are already been condemmed in the past, and yet the future society perhaps maybe gonna condem us too.
Perhaps what you said is true, NT students should go and die, because from what I see, government just throw us there and leave us to die, slowly and tourting. Unless we found a way to stand up again.
I fking agree with u!
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Originally posted by fymk:
I wasted one freaking year because my mandarin is sh*t . All other 8 subjects - good scores. 75% was the average score to enter express and I got blocked because of one subject even though I had the necessary 75%. The teachers - some are very good but most were sh*t.
The crap ones let us know what they think of us ....one called us stupid . Why? because she forgot to tell us to bring color pencils and we told her that she didn't tell us to do so. For that reason, it was our fault not hers.
We had a good science teacher who knew the system and made us do 10 year O level series since we were secondary 3. She set a test paper which is used for express by mistake. To her surprise ,my class scored better than her express class. We learnt how to cheat the system and that help alot of us over the hill. The history teacher taught us how to spot the questions via 10 years series.
More than half of my old classmates in normal academic stream have degrees by 25 years old , 5 of us have a master degree, and I am the first to do my PhD.
The system has flaws. When you have to teach people on how to be creative, the system is seriously flawed.
I was in the system and it wasted one year of my life on hindsight.
The system has flaws. When you have to teach people on how to be creative, the system is seriously flawed.
Perfectly agreed. Not to mention it gives teachers more stress without even increasing productivity of the students.
Any idea why China students continue to top out in maths and sciences by memorizing?
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Originally posted by eagle:
I hv a fren who went from NT to ITE to Poly and finally in the same graduating batch as me in NUS. And.... he has much higher networth than me (near $100k)
"condemned" by govt doesn't necessarily mean will die
You don't get the same treatment as other people.
Is like you are on the first class ticket on the airplanes, everyone get their good, excellent service, but when you call for a steward, they all heck care you.
Is like we are there, but we are being treated we are not there. So what's the difference of being NT and dead? I don't see the difference.
Of course we can go to Poly and then work our way to NUS. But don't forgot, government take up two years of our life when we reach level 18 (18 years old). To us, I've rather calculate, a student from Nitec who finish everything, including poly, NS, university, will take up rougly 9 to 10 years depending on what course you take in university. How do I get the answer? Simple.
Nitec - 2 years.
NS - 2 years.
Poly - 3 years. We have to restart all over again. Note! : -1 year for Higher Nitec Student
University - 2 - 3 years. Depending on what course you take. I'm not sure how long are the courses. So I take 2 to 3 years as an example.Now go get a calculator and calculate. You will see how many years we wasted, but is worth it lah. And there's alot of short cuts such as going into PI (private institute), cutting down the time and the years. Is just whether your parents or you wanna spend that huge amount of school fees into PI.
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Actually, i really apologise if u have any suicide tendencies...
Its just that its very difficult from the start once you have been posted to NT stream.Not even a chance to do O lvl which NA has.Confirm ITE means having a school filled with potential gangsters and classes may not be as peaceful when sometime lecturers cannot even be bothered(gt one thread either here or in HWZ where a lecturer mocked the ITE students for not studying,playing games in school etc)
But i do admit sometime express class does not as good as the Normal stream..heck,my class was super lazy that sometime the best NA class surpassed us in certain case
And sorry about my bad joke just now..
