I, a Singaporean Chinese refuse to speak Mandarin
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
I agree with TS is using objective data to justify his subjective interest, which is still acceptable.
That basically sums it up :)
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Originally posted by eagle:
Thanks for the clarification.
That still mean it's still the national language, which would explain its choice as logical. It also explains the written characters learned here. As for the other dialects, there isn't any law barring others from speaking it too.
Ok.
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Originally posted by Ranson:
Ha ha you can call me whatever you want. I am no more "Banana" than President Obama (of African Kenyan ancestry), or the 90% of Americans with no English ancestry or the leaders of Singapore, many of whom cannot speak Mandarin well.I was educated in English and working in Singapore, I haven't written a word of Chinese for over a decade after leaving school. I speak with a Singaporean accent. In fact, I don't really enjoy Chinese culture much, which is why I tend to lean towards speaking English.
I pity those who lack self esteem and feel so insecure about using English that they find whatever means to justify their ignorance from deliberately speaking Singlish to muffling their voice etc despite them being educated in English.
You will be wiping my tables while I will be shaking my legs sitting in my chair. And you can bleach yourself since you like it so much ha ha, I am happy with who I am.
America is leading by a mile. Its economy is 15 trillion. China in number 2 is only 5 trillion I think.You throw in the economies of 55 English speaking countries, and of course Singapore, you will see the utility of English.
Plus all the EU countries and even ASEAN uses English.
Even in China, the Chinese are paying 20000 yuan just to take part time English courses from Singaporeans and British alike.
A perfect Beijing accented Chinese fresh grad in Shanghai makes 1500-2000 yuan.
A Singapore/British fresh grad who chooses to teach English in one of many English schools in Shanghai makes 7000-10000 yuan. In fact, they prefer you not to speak Mandarin at all so their students wont be tempted to use Mandarin with you.
Mandarin only spoken in 3 countries in the world - Singapore, Taiwan and China.
And as you can see, even in Taiwan and China, people who are fluent in English easily earn more, muc more.
TS, since you refuse and cannot speak mandarin at all, how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ? Use body and sign language a lot huh ?
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Originally posted by eagle:
His is not a logical conclusion.
Just because someone or some other culture or race did it (supposing it is true), doesn't mean we should do it (refuse to speak Mandarin).
There's no logic whatsoever in his points, other than the fact that it is his choice to refuse.
Finally, I fail to see how his subtle conclusion that speaking Mandarin will lower his IQ is logical as well.
It is true. Most NATIVE English speakers are not of English ancestry. They are of German, African, Asian, Polish, Irish etc.Even Barrack Obama is of African Kenyan ancestry and therefore should speak Kenyan? Extrapolate to most of our Singaporean leaders, are they not Singaporean enough for you?
I never said speaking Mandarin will lower my IQ, read my original post. I said you should speak to your friends in whatever language and leave me out of it, because speaking to you will lower my IQ. Why? Isn't it obvious?
If you have no interest in Chinese culture or working in China, why should a Singaporean speak Mandarin, I personally don't see a need to. If you have a keen interest, yes of course go ahead.
Originally posted by eagle:Err........
If you are talking about Chinese immigrants, how can Mandarin not be intrinsic then?
You said it yourself, "immigrants". Meaning they have REJECTED their original citizenship, moved away to a foreign land, took up ANOTHER CITIZENSHIP and are now in a seperate SOVEREIGN country with its own culture and language.In fact, I think my grand father disliked China so much he would hated for me to go back to China. He was starved and had a terribly hard life there. No one would care if he died in China , just 1/1.3 billion.
Singapore gave him hope. He learnt basic English, started a coffeeshop in Singapore and made good in Singapore. Singapore gave him dignity.
In Singapore, there are no famines. No war. No strife. No corruption.
I am 3 generations away from him. Will China come to Singapore's aid if it was attacked? I don't know. Maybe since we have good ties, maybe not.
Does ASEAN fear the military poweress of China? Definitely. Open your eyes and you will see an arms race in ASEAN and countries around China as countries spend more on their military.
They are wary of China's communistic dictatorship.
I am sure Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia will show some support to Singapore under the Five Powers Agreement. Our close friends Brunei, USA, will probably do something as well.
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Originally posted by Devil7030:
TS, since you refuse and cannot speak mandarin at all, how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ? Use body and sign language a lot huh ?
Originally posted by Devil7030:TS, since you refuse and cannot speak mandarin at all, how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ? Use body and sign language a lot huh ?
How does Lee Kuan Yew or Lee Yui Tuck communicate ? They both can't speak much Chinese. I think many of our leaders do not speak fluent Mandarin.How does 1/4 of Singapore's populace communicate? Since 1/4 of us are Indians and Malays/ Eurasians.
How do Philippino maids, Australian expats, Indian teachers, Arab money changers and South Korean students communicate?
Please use your brain.
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Hi TS
Take a look at this post, http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/352418?page=6#post_8928699
Disadvantageous Mandarin, Thursday, 19 March 2009, 6:23 pm, A response to MM Lee, KJ
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I never said speaking Mandarin will lower my IQ, read my original post. I said you should speak to your friends in whatever language and leave me out of it, because speaking to you will lower my IQ. Why? Isn't it obvious?
I see. Speaking to a first class honours scholar with 2 awards attached, being among the top in Asia for Physics Olympiad, among the top 10 in Singapore for Physics A levels and educated in a top JC that's predominantly English, who achieved a 6 figure portfolio at age 26, will lower your IQ, I guess.
It's quite obvious you are committing another logical fallacy called Personal Attack.
Happy posting.
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Mandarin is just a language that one uses to communicate with people who can only speak mandarin or who are more comfortable with mandarin.
When you talk to someone in mandarin, it evokes some instant closeness between the two mandarin-speaking individuals.
For those who grow up in Singapore who are bilingual, they have double advantages as they can communicate and understand the cultures of the East and the West. This will enhance their career opportunities and the development of oneself holistically too.
If you refuse to speak mandarin, it is your choice and you choose to miss out on the opportunities.
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Originally posted by eagle:
I see. Speaking to a first class honours scholar with 2 awards attached, being among the top in Asia for Physics Olympiad, among the top 10 in Singapore for Physics A levels and educated in a top JC that's predominantly English, who achieved a 6 figure portfolio at age 26, will lower your IQ, I guess.
It's quite obvious you are committing another logical fallacy called Personal Attack.
Happy posting.
HAO LIAN!
>=(
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Originally posted by ChoCoChips:
HAO LIAN!
>=(
Just can't resist it
Add on a 150kg deadlift and 120kg squat?
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Originally posted by Ranson:
How does Lee Kuan Yew or Lee Yui Tuck communicate ? They both can't speak much Chinese. I think many of our leaders do not speak fluent Mandarin.How does 1/4 of Singapore's populace communicate? Since 1/4 of us are Indians and Malays/ Eurasians.
How do Philippino maids, Australian expats, Indian teachers, Arab money changers and South Korean students communicate?
Please use your brain.
It seems that you cannot read English.
I wrote "how do you communicate with those people who can only speak mandarin huh ?"
I question your IQ leh ? Your IQ score got 50 or not huh ?
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Talking about fallacies hahaha
I hope Singaporeans also do not commit bandwagon fallacy such that we agree with whatever majority believes, must be the truth. We also should avoid argumentum ad verecundiam such that we agree with whatever an authority believes, must be the truth.
eg. Since the official language is (*such & such*), therefore it is true that we must (*speak / learn / etc.*)
eg. Since the national language is (*such & such*), therefore we believe it to be true
eg. Since the schools are teaching (*such & such*), therefore we accept it to be true
CHEERS
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Talking about fallacies hahaha
I hope Singaporeans also do not commit bandwagon fallacy such that we agree with whatever majority believes, must be the truth. We also should avoid argumentum ad verecundiam such that we agree with whatever an authority believes, must be the truth.
eg. Since the official language is (*such & such*), therefore it is true that we must (*speak / learn / etc.*)
eg. Since the national language is (*such & such*), therefore we believe it to be true
eg. Since the schools are teaching (*such & such*), therefore we accept it to be true
CHEERS
Nice!
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Talking about fallacies hahaha
I hope Singaporeans also do not commit bandwagon fallacy such that we agree with whatever majority believes, must be the truth. We also should avoid argumentum ad verecundiam such that we agree with whatever an authority believes, must be the truth.
eg. Since the official language is (*such & such*), therefore it is true that we must (*speak / learn / etc.*)
eg. Since the national language is (*such & such*), therefore we believe it to be true
eg. Since the schools are teaching (*such & such*), therefore we accept it to be true
CHEERS
How about what the parents have taught? The mother tongue?
Be it English, Mandarin or dialects.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Talking about fallacies hahaha
I hope Singaporeans also do not commit bandwagon fallacy such that we agree with whatever majority believes, must be the truth. We also should avoid argumentum ad verecundiam such that we agree with whatever an authority believes, must be the truth.
eg. Since the official language is (*such & such*), therefore it is true that we must (*speak / learn / etc.*)
eg. Since the national language is (*such & such*), therefore we believe it to be true
eg. Since the schools are teaching (*such & such*), therefore we accept it to be true
CHEERS
The reason why so many people are pissed with TS is not becoz of group think (like what you are saying).
It's because he has an attitude problem and is an elitist asshole who thinks that he's superior to people who do not have the same mindset.
Also because he thinks that just being proficient in 1 language is enough...well we'll see...when China really rises up and pwns us all....we'll know who will be wiping tables...
I'm not just saying this for Mandarin...learning more than one language is practical, common sense and can help you in life...only an idiot with no foresight would think that one language is enough.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
How about what the parents have taught? The mother tongue?
Be it English, Mandarin or dialects.
No right no wrong lor (from different perspective)
Example:
Dad - Hokkien, Mom - Hokkien, decides to only teach child Hokkien, meets another child who speaks only Cantonese because Dad - Cantonese, Mom - Cantonese
It is the choice of the child to choose whatever common language to communicate with each other. It shouldn't be prescribed that they must talk in Mandarin or must talk in English.
It should be a social factor motivated by natural causes. Like back to the old days when Chinese converse to Malay people in Malay Language or Bazaar Malay
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
No right no wrong lor (from different perspective)
Example:
Dad - Hokkien, Mom - Hokkien, decides to only teach child Hokkien, meets another child who speaks only Cantonese because Dad - Cantonese, Mom - Cantonese
It is the choice of the child to choose whatever common language to communicate with each other. It shouldn't be prescribed that they must talk in Mandarin or must talk in English.
It should be a social factor motivated by natural causes. Like back to the old days when Chinese converse to Malay people in Malay Language or Bazaar Malay
In old days even those who spoke only their own dialects can still communicate by learning a few words of each others or Pasar Malay with the other races.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
The reason why so many people are pissed with TS is not becoz of group think (like what you are saying).
It's because he has an attitude problem and is an elitist asshole who thinks that he's superior to people who do not have the same mindset.
Also because he thinks that just being proficient in 1 language is enough...well we'll see...when China really rises up and pwns us all....we'll know who will be wiping tables...
I'm not just saying this for Mandarin...learning more than one language is practical, common sense and can help you in life...only an idiot with no foresight would think that one language is enough.
ok i see. Learning more languages is good, but why our Singapore government stops at 2? there must be a reason, and i gonna dig up an old post of mine to show you the dirty secrets hehehe:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=4#post_9273576
READ with your EYES BIG BIG hehehe
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
In old days even those who spoke only their own dialects can still communicate by learning a few words of each others or Pasar Malay with the other races.
Wah ah gong...I tot u normally only type a few words one? Today so enthu ah?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
ok i see. Learning more languages is good, but why our Singapore government stops at 2? there must be a reason, and i gonna dig up an old post of mine to show you the dirty secrets hehehe:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=4#post_9273576
READ with your EYES BIG BIG hehehe
Originally posted by BanguIzai:ok i see. Learning more languages is good, but why our Singapore government stops at 2? there must be a reason, and i gonna dig up an old post of mine to show you the dirty secrets hehehe:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=4#post_9273576
READ with your EYES BIG BIG hehehe
a few more evidences:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=5#post_9274709
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=5#post_9275993
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
ok i see. Learning more languages is good, but why our Singapore government stops at 2? there must be a reason, and i gonna dig up an old post of mine to show you the dirty secrets hehehe:
http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/370029?page=4#post_9273576
READ with your EYES BIG BIG hehehe
U know why our govt stopped at 2?
Look at TS and you know already...He'll ask...why? why must we learn so many languages? My mommy also not from those countries den I learn for wat?
I have nothing against people who are proficient in more then 1, 2 or even 3 and more languages...in fact I'm all for learning as many languages as you can.
So I can't stand elitist idiots like TS.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
U know why our govt stopped at 2?
Look at TS and you know already...He'll ask...why? why must we learn so many languages? My mommy also not from those countries den I learn for wat?
I have nothing against people who are proficient in more then 1, 2 or even 3 languages...in fact I'm striving to learn as many languages as I can.
And I definitely can't stand elitist idiots like TS.
The government do not need to fear or pre-empt people like TS like you think so
The government has it's own agenda, so please my words again, do not fall into the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
U know why our govt stopped at 2?
Look at TS and you know already...He'll ask...why? why must we learn so many languages? My mommy also not from those countries den I learn for wat?
I have nothing against people who are proficient in more then 1, 2 or even 3 languages...in fact I'm striving to learn as many languages as I can.
And I definitely can't stand elitist idiots like TS.
It help to know a bit more of another language/dialect to interact with another race. Good for you.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
In old days even those who spoke only their own dialects can still communicate by learning a few words of each others or Pasar Malay with the other races.
Yes, even I still speak Pasar Malay to Malays now
Many languages in the world are formed through the process of Creolization
I hope the government understands
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
The government do not need to fear or pre-empt people like TS like you think so
The government has it's own agenda, so please my words again, do not fall into the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam
Everyone has an agenda, even you have an agenda for posting all these threads....so your point is?
I know you support TS becoz he's not doing what the govt is forcing the rest of us to do.
But let me ask you....will learning Mandarin kill you? Will it render you incapable of speaking another language? Then why not? Why not take up a language that would most probably help you in future? It's not like Mandarin is a ancient/long forgotten language that would not be useful in these times. SO I ask again? Why not?
And I would rather not drag politics into this btw....if not this would be a never ending debate.