I, a Singaporean Chinese refuse to speak Mandarin
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Yup, many Malay and Indian teenagers learn to speak Mandarin and some can speak fluent Mandarin.
Reason : Many employers require their non-Chinese staff to be able to communicate with their mandarin-speaking customers.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Everyone has an agenda, even you have an agenda for posting all these threads....so your point is?
I know you support TS becoz he's not doing what the govt is forcing the rest of us to do.
But let me ask you....will learning Mandarin kill you? Will it render you incapable of speaking another language? Then why not? Why not take up a language that would most probably help you in future? It's not like Mandarin is a ancient/long forgotten language that would not be useful in these times. SO I ask again? Why not?
And I would rather not drag politics into this btw....if not this would be a never ending debate.
My point is, sometimes we lose ourselves and follow what government says on certain issues, thinking that it should be correct
Learning Mandarin may kill him, and will not kill me, so we dunno what will happen to each and everyone of us
That's why, I am always a supporter of descriptive linguistics (as you rightly pointed out, MY AGENDA) and a non-supporter of prescriptive linguistics.
Even if you do not drag politics into the picture, you have already dragged the concept of "helpfulness" vs "non-helpfulness" into the picture already, to "help" in what? > economically, blah blah blah, money money.... etc
See my point?
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Yes, even I still speak Pasar Malay to Malays now
Many languages in the world are formed through the process of Creolization
I hope the government understands
The importance of language is to get the message across, to make one understand his intent. A good comprehension of any language give ease to interaction.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
It's because he has an attitude problem and is an elitist asshole who thinks that he's superior to people who do not have the same mindset.
Also because he thinks that just being proficient in 1 language is enough...well we'll see...when China really rises up and pwns us all....we'll know who will be wiping tables...
I'm not just saying this for Mandarin...learning more than one language is practical, common sense and can help you in life...only an idiot with no foresight would think that one language is enough.
Click clock click clock..what is that across my bridge?China rises up to USA/EU/JAP or even Taiwan standard of living? Read my other thread "I don't understand the rise of China" here. http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/398285
Not in this lifetime even with the BEST CASE SCENARIO. China will have a big ecnonomy simply because it has 1/4 of the world's people but its GDP per capita will remain very low (African level) for next few decades and its people will be dirt poor still. It is just a pipe dream you are living, in your own world, dreaming up scenarios.
Even if China becomes the biggest economy in earliest 3 decades time (best case scenario again), it will never overtake the economies of all english speaking countries, hence, the utility of English will still be much higher than Mandarin. The economy of English speaking countries will ALWAYS be AT LEAST 100times that of Mandarin speaking ones.
Just as it is possible that China will rise, it is also VERY possible China will fall even lower. Another "tian an men" or "great leap forward". Another mass riot, (there are thousands in china yearly) or famine or just political strife since its political system is so unstable.
Anyway, China has nothing to do with Singapore. Singapore will still remain an English society. You can't speak English? No good jobs, no education, no nothing for you.
Being proficient in more than one language is good but not neccessary. And why Mandarin? Why not Spanish or Japanese? Japan is the third largest economy and has a lot of yummy technology to learn. Spanish is a useful language that many countries speak.
I am "elitist" yes. Dont be jealous because you are a loser. You make no sense, Go back under your shell.
Originally posted by Devil7030:Yup, many Malay and Tamil teenagers learn how to speak Mandarin and some can speak fluent Mandarin.
Reason : Many employers require their non-Chinese staff to be able to communicate with their mandarin-speaking customers.
I haven;t met a Malay or Indian friend who can speak fluent Chinese though I have heard of a few around.
Why do they need to speak Chinese when Singapore is a predominantly English society?
Out of 7 Singaporean presidents, probably only 2 speak Mandarin. President Nathan, Benjamin Sheares, Yusof Ishak, Devan Nair etc all dont speak Mandarin. Out of 3 prime ministers, 1 does not speak mandarin at all. Two speaks mandarin but very haltingly.
If you can;t speak English that is your problem. You lose clients. You can't go to school to get an education. You can't work in civil sector. You cant even read the laws of your own country or understand your own government. You are illiterate.
PS: I never understood why the lowlifes (normally sub o levels kind) call Singaporeans who speak their country's own language Banana. Singaporeans are educated in English from kindergarten to University, wouldn't it be a natural thing to speak English as your native language?
I think these people have self esteem problems over their illiteracy in English or identity crisis some some sort.
I don't mind "banana", at least it sounds better than "illiterate low wage worker" or "chinese helicopter".
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
The importance of language is to get the message across, to make one understand his intent. A good comprehension of any language give ease to interaction.
That's why I never support any advocation nor destruction towards any particular language
I also understand language use is inevitably shaped by "economic value", "political correctness" blah blah blah
how not to drag in these issues? hahaha
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
My point is, sometimes we lose ourselves and follow what government says on certain issues, thinking that it should be correct
Learning Mandarin may kill him, and will not kill me, so we dunno what will happen to each and everyone of us
That's why, I am always a supporter of descriptive linguistics (as you rightly pointed out, MY AGENDA) and a non-supporter of prescriptive linguistics.
Even if you do not drag politics into the picture, you have already dragged the concept of "helpfulness" vs "non-helpfulness" into the picture already, to "help" in what? > economically, blah blah blah, money money.... etc
See my point?
Actually no.
When I talk about it being helpful in future, I was thinking more along the lines of....communicating with people in different countries when I'm there for a holiday
And imagine...(not very possible scenario)if you were shipwrecked with a chinese guy who could help you and etc...and the both of you cannot communicate...because u refused to learn another language...den how? I'm talking about stuff like this.
Not because it will help us economically, but because communication is a vital part of our lives.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
That's why I never support any advocation nor destruction towards any particular language
I also understand language use is inevitably shaped by "economic value", "political correctness" blah blah blah
how not to drag in these issues? hahaha
Just like old buildings demolish to make way for the new which after a few decade will be old again. Language itself is always renewing.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
Actually no.
When I talk about it being helpful in future, I was thinking more along the lines of....communicating with people in different countries when I'm there for a holiday
And imagine...(not very possible scenario)if you were shipwreaked with a chinese guy who could help you and etc...and the both of you cannot communicate...because u refused to learn another language...den how? I'm talking about stuff like this.
Not because it will help us economically, but because communication is a vital part of our lives.
ok sorry that I have misunderstood you
but this cannot be the end of the story
you can go on and say, why not learn 3 language, 4, 5, 6? it could be possible a person who knows 6 languages could still not be able to communicate with someone else, no doubt the possibility is greatly reduced
that's when people starts to choose what language is "useful" to learn due to time constraints and blah blah blah
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ok la
u dont mind banana dont mind chao kentang dont mnd geh ang moh is ur daiji
u calling us simi chinese helicopter oso not our daiji
just like u dont care about mandarin speaking folks,
we dont care about u too
but it's a pity lo
u can appreciate less things.
"wah knn this book no translate to ang moh i cant read lehhhhhhhhhh"
u know u know
n quite funny sia
how u associate speaking oni mandarin with illiteracy.
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Originally posted by Ranson:
Click clock click clock..what is that across my bridge?China rises up to USA/EU/JAP or even Taiwan standard of living? Read my other thread "I don't understand the rise of China" here. http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/398285
Not in this lifetime even with the BEST CASE SCENARIO. China will have a big ecnonomy simply because it has 1/4 of the world's people but its GDP per capita will remain very low (African level) for next few decades and its people will be dirt poor still. It is just a pipe dream you are living, in your own world, dreaming up scenarios.
Even if China becomes the biggest economy in earliest 3 decades time (best case scenario again), it will never overtake the economies of all english speaking countries, hence, the utility of English will still be much higher than Mandarin.
Just as it is possible that China will rise, it is also VERY possible China will fall even lower. Another "tian an men" or "great leap forward". Another mass riot, (there are thousands in china yearly) or famine or just political strife since its political system is so unstable.
Anyway, China has nothing to do with Singapore. Singapore will still remain an English society. You can't speak English? No good jobs, no education, no nothing for you.
Being proficient in more than one language is good but not neccessary. And why Mandarin? Why not Spanish or Japanese? Japan is the third largest economy and has a lot of yummy technology to learn. Spanish is a useful language that many countries speak.
I am "elitist" yes. Dont be jealous because you are a loser. You make no sense, Go back under your shell.
I haven;t met a Malay or Indian friend who can speak fluent Chinese though I have heard of a few around.
Why do they need to speak Chinese when Singapore is a predominantly English society?
Out of 7 Singaporean presidents, probably only 2 speak Mandarin. President Nathan, Benjamin Sheares, Yusof Ishak, Devan Nair etc all dont speak Mandarin. Out of 3 prime ministers, 1 does not speak mandarin at all. Two speaks mandarin but very haltingly.
If you can;t speak English that is your problem. You lose clients. You can't go to school to get an education. You can't work in civil sector. You cant even read the laws of your own country or understand your own government. You are illiterate.
PS: I never understood why the lowlifes (normally sub o levels kind) call Singaporeans who speak their country's own language Banana. Singaporeans are educated in English from kindergarten to University, wouldn't it be a natural thing to speak English as your native language?
I think these people have self esteem problems over their illiteracy in English or identity crisis some some sort.
I don't mind "banana", at least it sounds better than "illiterate low wage worker" or "chinese helicopter".
You need more work on your spelling you elitist bastard.
No wonder you are so against the idea of mastering more than 1 language. Your brains are obviously too weak to even master 1.
Like I've said before, only an IDIOT would admit to being an elitist asshole. Good luck to you. I hope your life will amount to more than just cleaning toilets.
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Well, TS is comfortable with who he is and what he thinks of things, let him be. Perhaps one day he might feel inadequate because he can only converse in english.
For me, im comfortable with both mandarin and english, especially in Singapore where many people are bilingual. Sometimes you just naturally speak english to one and mandarin to another. I think its disadvantageous that a person may only converse in only one language, be it in a social environment or working environment.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
ok sorry that I have misunderstood you
but this cannot be the end of the story
you can go on and say, why not learn 3 language, 4, 5, 6? it could be possible a person who knows 6 languages could still not be able to communicate with someone else, no doubt the possibility is greatly reduced
that's when people starts to choose what language is "useful" to learn due to time constraints and blah blah blah
OT liaoz
Please just let us flame TS in peace
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Just like old buildings demolish to make way for the new which after a few decade will be old again. Language itself is always renewing.
yes you right
to everyone:
an article for reading: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall_1998/ling001/prescription.html
Prescriptive and descriptive linguistics:
the language wars
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
OT liaoz
Please just let us flame TS in peace
If you have ever read all my historic post on my linguistics topics,
I have always taken my stand.
Singapore's linguistic agenda in itself is not objective. Thus people like TS would want to challenge.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Just like old buildings demolish to make way for the new which after a few decade will be old again. Language itself is always renewing.
We need to feel guilty even if some not-so-old buildings are being demolished to make way for new ones that are not properly planned before building
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
yes you right
to everyone:
an article for reading: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall_1998/ling001/prescription.html
Prescriptive and descriptive linguistics:
the language wars
If I use "most importantly" during say the 70s or earlier I will be dead wrong. But since Bill Gates spoke that in the 80s and he is the richest man it become a correct usuage.
It's good to be rich, language isn't a barrier.
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
If I use "most importantly" during say the 70s or earlier I will be dead wrong. But since Bill Gates spoke that in the 80s and he is the richest man it become a correct usuage.
It's good to be rich, language isn't a barrier.
Language is shaped by "economic viability" again
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Talking about fallacies hahaha
I hope Singaporeans also do not commit bandwagon fallacy such that we agree with whatever majority believes, must be the truth. We also should avoid argumentum ad verecundiam such that we agree with whatever an authority believes, must be the truth.
eg. Since the official language is (*such & such*), therefore it is true that we must (*speak / learn / etc.*)
eg. Since the national language is (*such & such*), therefore we believe it to be true
eg. Since the schools are teaching (*such & such*), therefore we accept it to be true
CHEERS
uh-huh .........
oh shit ! ... they have been emphasizing and teaching english everywhere ! .... worse still ! ... the goverment have been forcing english down everyone's throat, regardless of whether you're black, white, brown, yellow or red ?!?!?!?! .......
mustn't swallow everything they say eh ? ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
uh-huh .........
oh shit ! ... they have been emphasizing and teaching english everywhere ! .... worse still ! ... the goverment have been forcing english down everyone's throat, regardless of whether you're black, white, brown, yellow or red ?!?!?!?! .......
mustn't swallow everything they say eh ? ....
haha so cute
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
If you have ever read all my historic post on my linguistics topics,
I have always taken my stand.
Singapore's linguistic agenda in itself is not objective. Thus people like TS would want to challenge.
U sure tt TS is challenging this because of politics?
I know of some people would would reject Mandarin completely becoz...." China is not cool and we dun wanna be cheena"
And if this is really a political thing...den he shld go to speakers' corner instead. However, I highly doubt so. Like he said, he's an elitist asshole. End of story.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
U sure tt TS is challenging this because of politics?
I know of some people would would reject Mandarin completely becoz...." China is not cool and we dun wanna be cheena"
And if this is really a political thing...den he shld go to speakers' corner instead. However, I highly doubt so. Like he said, he's an elitist asshole. End of story.
ok so be it
There are many Elitist hiding out there.
At least he is brave to declare he is one.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
ok so be it
There are many Elitist hiding out there.
At least he is brave to declare he is one.
-_-"
Must resist...the urge....to flame....Bangulzai...too..........
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
-_-"
Must resist...the urge....to flame....Bangulzai...too..........
eternal flame....
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Originally posted by Ranson:
Click clock click clock..what is that across my bridge?China rises up to USA/EU/JAP or even Taiwan standard of living? Read my other thread "I don't understand the rise of China" here. http://sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/398285
Not in this lifetime even with the BEST CASE SCENARIO. China will have a big ecnonomy simply because it has 1/4 of the world's people but its GDP per capita will remain very low (African level) for next few decades and its people will be dirt poor still. It is just a pipe dream you are living, in your own world, dreaming up scenarios.
Even if China becomes the biggest economy in earliest 3 decades time (best case scenario again), it will never overtake the economies of all english speaking countries, hence, the utility of English will still be much higher than Mandarin. The economy of English speaking countries will ALWAYS be AT LEAST 100times that of Mandarin speaking ones.
Just as it is possible that China will rise, it is also VERY possible China will fall even lower. Another "tian an men" or "great leap forward". Another mass riot, (there are thousands in china yearly) or famine or just political strife since its political system is so unstable.
Anyway, China has nothing to do with Singapore. Singapore will still remain an English society. You can't speak English? No good jobs, no education, no nothing for you.
Being proficient in more than one language is good but not neccessary. And why Mandarin? Why not Spanish or Japanese? Japan is the third largest economy and has a lot of yummy technology to learn. Spanish is a useful language that many countries speak.
I am "elitist" yes. Dont be jealous because you are a loser. You make no sense, Go back under your shell.
I haven;t met a Malay or Indian friend who can speak fluent Chinese though I have heard of a few around.
Why do they need to speak Chinese when Singapore is a predominantly English society?
Out of 7 Singaporean presidents, probably only 2 speak Mandarin. President Nathan, Benjamin Sheares, Yusof Ishak, Devan Nair etc all dont speak Mandarin. Out of 3 prime ministers, 1 does not speak mandarin at all. Two speaks mandarin but very haltingly.
If you can;t speak English that is your problem. You lose clients. You can't go to school to get an education. You can't work in civil sector. You cant even read the laws of your own country or understand your own government. You are illiterate.
PS: I never understood why the lowlifes (normally sub o levels kind) call Singaporeans who speak their country's own language Banana. Singaporeans are educated in English from kindergarten to University, wouldn't it be a natural thing to speak English as your native language?
I think these people have self esteem problems over their illiteracy in English or identity crisis some some sort.
I don't mind "banana", at least it sounds better than "illiterate low wage worker" or "chinese helicopter".
You have forgotten that in your earlier post to my question , you have shown that you cannot read or even understand English
by your reply.Your IQ score got 50 or not huh ?
You are still trying to claim that you are superior to others because you can only speak English and you are very proud of it.
By the way, I can speak fluent English, Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochew, Khek and some Malay, Japanese, Korean and Thai.
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Originally posted by littlemissbonkers:
-_-"
Must resist...the urge....to flame....Bangulzai...too..........
If I worry about flaming, I wouldn't even have posted anything in the first place
You can go through all my historic linguistic threads in many previous threads
I will maintain my stand.
bleah >_<